NBA Best Small Forward of All Time... (Where is Bird & Pippen at?)

[b l u e devils acc]

no havlicek on most lists...damn.

lebron's done some absolutely incredible things in his career... we've never seen anybody establish himself as a star at such a young age. The factthat he's gotten better every single year and he's still only 24 years old leads me to believe that we're going to see some unprecedented featsfrom him in the future, and i'm pretty sure we'll see him holding up the larry o'brien trophy at least once during his career (could be this year).His body of work certainly isn't complete but it's laughable that so many people that want to dismiss his name from the discussion. He's not top 5greatest yet (he's certainly top 5 most talented, probably the most talented) but he's in the conversation. 27/7/7 career numbers, 4 playoffappearances and a championship appearance, and led the Cavs back to relevancy (they were atrocious before he got there, word to Ricky Davis). Extremelyimpressive resume for a 24 year old. He's in the conversation.

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

My brain hurts from all this silly logic.

If you take away Pippen from the Bulls, you DO NOT HAVE six championships, plain and simple. Forget all the stats, note Pippen's accomplishments, his great defense. If you have a guy like Steve Nash who averages 18 or whatever points and 12 or 13 assists, that's fine, Nash doesn't play much defense. But then with guys like Pippen, forget the stats, the man is a EIGHT TIME ALL FIRST DEFENSE. This was when there were GREAT defenders, and he was first team, eight times.

As for Barkley being a SF, get out of here with that. Ain't no Small Forward going to average 12 rebounds for his career,

using your logic, the Spurs couldn't have won a championship with Bruce Bowen...so is Bowen the greatest SF of all time? your mixing upgreatest SF of all time with 'important part of a championship team'

No one is arguing that Pippen isn't a great defender...but as far as the overall game and dominance, Lebron is already better than Pippen...people love MJso much that they're willing to say Pippen was better than Bird, Dr. J, Dominique, AND Lebron?

Let's put Lebron on that Bulls team, where teams can't focus onhim...wow, it wouldn't even be funny

 

[mister friendly]

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

My brain hurts from all this silly logic.

If you take away Pippen from the Bulls, you DO NOT HAVE six championships, plain and simple. Forget all the stats, note Pippen's accomplishments, his great defense. If you have a guy like Steve Nash who averages 18 or whatever points and 12 or 13 assists, that's fine, Nash doesn't play much defense. But then with guys like Pippen, forget the stats, the man is a EIGHT TIME ALL FIRST DEFENSE. This was when there were GREAT defenders, and he was first team, eight times.

As for Barkley being a SF, get out of here with that. Ain't no Small Forward going to average 12 rebounds for his career,

using your logic, the Spurs couldn't have won a championship with Bruce Bowen...so is Bowen the greatest SF of all time? your mixing up greatest SF of all time with 'important part of a championship team'

No one is arguing that Pippen isn't a great defender...but as far as the overall game and dominance, Lebron is already better than Pippen...people love MJ so much that they're willing to say Pippen was better than Bird, Dr. J, Dominique, AND Lebron?

Let's put Lebron on that Bulls team, where teams can't focus on him...wow, it wouldn't even be funny

People confuse the best possible sidekick for MJ as the best small forward ever and thats a big NO-NO.

You can put him in your top 5

But please dont try to really say he's the best all time. Yes Jordan didnt win a ring without Pippen but at least Jordan accomplished some accoladeswithout Pippen and he lost against great all time teams (Celtics and Pistons) Pippen not so much.

 

[japanair21]

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

My brain hurts from all this silly logic.

If you take away Pippen from the Bulls, you DO NOT HAVE six championships, plain and simple. Forget all the stats, note Pippen's accomplishments, his great defense. If you have a guy like Steve Nash who averages 18 or whatever points and 12 or 13 assists, that's fine, Nash doesn't play much defense. But then with guys like Pippen, forget the stats, the man is a EIGHT TIME ALL FIRST DEFENSE. This was when there were GREAT defenders, and he was first team, eight times.

As for Barkley being a SF, get out of here with that. Ain't no Small Forward going to average 12 rebounds for his career,

using your logic, the Spurs couldn't have won a championship with Bruce Bowen...so is Bowen the greatest SF of all time? your mixing up greatest SF of all time with 'important part of a championship team'

No one is arguing that Pippen isn't a great defender...but as far as the overall game and dominance, Lebron is already better than Pippen...people love MJ so much that they're willing to say Pippen was better than Bird, Dr. J, Dominique, AND Lebron?

Let's put Lebron on that Bulls team, where teams can't focus on him...wow, it wouldn't even be funny

You're missing the point.

What made Pippen so good is that he was a great defender, one of the BEST OF ALL TIME. Bruce Bowen? Come on man. MY point was that his great defense makesseparates him from being a good player, and a great player.

LeBron is a physical freak of nature, similar to young Pippen was, but he's like Pippen on steroids. I refuse to compare any young player to any veteran,it's just not right. LBJ has so much more development left in his career, and it's unfair to compare guys in the past to guys who have been in the L afew years.

As for Dr. J and Dominique,

.

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

My brain hurts from all this silly logic.

If you take away Pippen from the Bulls, you DO NOT HAVE six championships, plain and simple. Forget all the stats, note Pippen's accomplishments, his great defense. If you have a guy like Steve Nash who averages 18 or whatever points and 12 or 13 assists, that's fine, Nash doesn't play much defense. But then with guys like Pippen, forget the stats, the man is a EIGHT TIME ALL FIRST DEFENSE. This was when there were GREAT defenders, and he was first team, eight times.

As for Barkley being a SF, get out of here with that. Ain't no Small Forward going to average 12 rebounds for his career,

using your logic, the Spurs couldn't have won a championship with Bruce Bowen...so is Bowen the greatest SF of all time? your mixing up greatest SF of all time with 'important part of a championship team'

No one is arguing that Pippen isn't a great defender...but as far as the overall game and dominance, Lebron is already better than Pippen...people love MJ so much that they're willing to say Pippen was better than Bird, Dr. J, Dominique, AND Lebron?

Let's put Lebron on that Bulls team, where teams can't focus on him...wow, it wouldn't even be funny

You're missing the point.

What made Pippen so good is that he was a great defender, one of the BEST OF ALL TIME. Bruce Bowen? Come on man. MY point was that his great defense makes separates him from being a good player, and a great player.

LeBron is a physical freak of nature, similar to young Pippen was, but he's like Pippen on steroids. I refuse to compare any young player to any veteran, it's just not right. LBJ has so much more development left in his career, and it's unfair to compare guys in the past to guys who have been in the L a few years.

As for Dr. J and Dominique,

.

OK Bowen was a stretch but you get my point...your basis of Pippen being the greatest is that he was a good defender and won 6 rings...but Lebronis dominant, is a better playoff performer, and to say he is not close to Pippen would only come from the ultimate Bulls/MJ/Pippen homer....I don't evenlike Lebron, but we have to appreciate what he is...30 7 7, you think he's going to digress or something?

Lebron is a freak of nature? That's an understatement...He's faster, stronger, and more explosive than Pippen ever was in real life, NBA Jam,anything...

So you refuse to compare young guns with old veterans yet you argue AGAINST Lebron then? I think what you're trying to say is: I loved the 90s so much andI hate that Lebron is better than Pippen...God I miss MJ

....I would beinterested to hear where Wade, Kobe, and Lebron fall in your 'all-time' lists...we're talking about 3 of the greatest players to ever playbasketball, it's no longer a debate

No hate, but Lebron is the best SF of all time...you might be able to argue for Bird, but Pippen?

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly

ericberry14 wrote:

---

Mister Friendly wrote:

---

What did Pippen do without Jordan?

since you want to go there... what exactly did Jordan do without Pippen?

if i recall correctly Pippen got to the Eastern Conference Finals without Jordan

Jordan i believe got to the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals.

so...




Ok you want to go there?

3 All-NBA selections
4 All-Star selections
1 NBA MVP( Was 2nd in the voting another time)
1 NBA Defensive Player of the Year
1 Rookie of the Year
1 All Star MVP
3 scoring titles
A season where he averaged the second most points per game ever. 37.1

The NBA playoff record for most points in a game all time.

Lets go back to college hmm...

3 different player of the year awards.
2 All American selections
1 National Championship


I know you're going to say what championships did he win without Pippen? Well I cant prove it because they PLAYED together. But I do know with a ratty Wizards squad a 38 year old Jordan put up better or similar numbers than the "baseball era "Pippen

Jordan 38 Yr old
22.9 PPG
5.7 RPG
5.1 AST

Pippen 29 year old

20.2 PPG
7.6 RPG
4.9 AST

And what was Pippen's scoring avg in his about 475 plus without Jordan...14.5 ppg

Yeah I'm so sure Pippen was the deciding factor on all those championships.

Your argument is full of flaws. First of all, noone was saying that Pippen was actually better than Jordan, especially not a better scorer. Secondly, noone wasasking what Jordan did without Pippen in terms of INDIVIDUAL accomplishments, and you know this damn well. Third, a lot of those individual accomplishments youlisted came when Jordan had the Bulls all to himself and could pretty much do whatever he wanted to, take any shot whenever he pleased - and this was 4-5seasons. Pippen only had two seasons in his prime without Jordan and those two seasons were his best individual seasons ever - coincidence? He came in third inMVP voting in 93-94 (Jordan himself came in third the year before) and lost to arguably the strongest version of the 90s Knicks, a team that the Bulls hadproblems with WITH Jordan, in 7 games - a series that was decided on a very questionable call BTW. In the 94-95 season Pip led the Bulls in points, rebounds,assists, steals and blocks - something Jordan never managed to do.

You're flat our ridiculous for mentioning Pippen's 14 ppg average without Jordan, the bulk of which came when he played on one of the deepest teamsever, the early 00s Blazers. Damon Stoudamire went from being a 20 ppg & 8 apg guy to nothing but a tiny role player when he joined that Blazers team.Steve Smith and Detlef Schrempf are another two very good players whose numbers dropped significantly when they came to those Blazers teams.

 

[japanair21]

When did I ever say that I thought Pippen was better than LBJ, or the other way around? All I said that was LBJ is a freak athlete, and so was Pippen, but evenPipp falls short of LBJ's athleticism. I said that it's not fair to compare a guy who's been in the L a few years to a guy who's career isalready done-and-done. That doesn't mean I think LBJ is inferior to Pippen, or vice versa. You're fooling yourself, it's not even about players ofthe past compared to present players. It's plain and simple, I just don't feel right about comparing guys who are young and still have a TON ofimprovement ahead of them to guys who have nothing more to give. It's like comparing Chris Paul to John Stockton, Isiah, Gary Payton, or whoever you want.CP3 is a young dude, he has at least a dozen years left in his damn NBA career, wait a while for these guys to develop their careers. Kobe, TD and guys whohave been in the League a while, that's fine to compare to guys like Michael Jordan, West, Barkley, Malone, because these guys have pretty much hit theirwall of development, and their maintaining their game at a high-level. Sorry but we're not going to see Kobe hit any more major strides as a player.He's the best player on Earth right now (IMO, and although not MVP this season), so that's fine. LBJ? He's going to get better. He's going tohave a more developed jumpshot, or at least he's going to try.

.

Pippen carried the Bulls in 93-94 to a 57-win season, ain't bad. Granted they lost in the second round, they still got past the first round and 57-winseason is no joke. Dr. J and Dominique are right up there with Pippen, Dr. J had more individual success, and Dominique was a more prolific scorer, but Pippenwas never the #1 option. It's just one of those what if's, but Pippen was no joke however you want to look at it.

And to put the Bruce Bowen case to a close, peep to see if Bruce Bowen was not only All-Defensive first team for 8 years straight, but also 3 of those 8 he wasin the All-NBA team as well.

 

[solefob]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by CP1708

Why is Nique better then Worthy Osh?

When I evaluate NBA player throughout history I basically operate under these set of rules and while I think Worthy beats out Nique in somethings, Nique overall has posses I believe the to be the most valuable.

1. Was he ever the best player in basketball? While he was active, did anyone ever suggest that he was the best player in basketball?
2. Was he the best player on his team?
3. Was he the best player in basketball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?
4. Did he have an impact on a number of play of series?
5. If he was the best player on a team, could that team win the championship?
6. Was he good enough to keep playing regularly past his prime?
7. Is there evidence to suggest that he was better or worse than his statistics?
8. Did he ever have an MVP type season, and did he ever win the MVP award? How did he perform in MVP voting over the course of his career?

(I jacked this from the book "what ever happened to the hall of fame")

Despite his lack of championships his ability to carry a teams of no defense playing scrubs to multiple playoff appearances clinches his greatness over worthy.

well the answers to your questions makes Pippen better than all except Bird

1. For 6 years he was one of the 3 or 4 best players in the NBA. It just so happened that the best player was his teammate.

2. Only for those two years where Jordan retired and in his first year he led the team to 55 wins and a phantom foul call away from leading his team to thefinals and the next year that same team didn't return and for most of the year had Larry Krystowiak as the starting power forward, an aging Bill Cartwrightat center and Pete Myers as the shooting guard.

3. During his prime, ther were no small forwards who were better than him

4. Just watch how Phil put him on Magic Johnson after the game 1 loss to the Lakers, they didn't lose another game. How he guarded Mark Jackson andcompletely disrupted the Pacers offense in the 98 ECF. For the first 5 games of the 98 finals, he was the MVP and if he didn't herniate a disc in his backin game 6 he probably gets the award.

5. Two words, Hue Hollins.

6. He was the starting small forward for a team that lost a game 7 to the eventual champs in the WCF in 00.

7. Reggie Miller is quoted as saying that He could score 5 points in a game and still dominate.

8. Both years without Jordan he showed how great a player he was. He finished 3rd in the voting behind Hakeem and David Robinson in 94 and finished 5th in96, not to mention the multiple all nba first and second team appearances.

 

[youngcheezy]

Jason Richardson easy

in the 4 games he played small forward in the NBa

4 36:47 9.5 15.5 61.3 3.0 5.5 54.6 3.5 3.8 93.3 1.3 2.5 3.8 2.5 2.0 1.8 0.5 3.5 25.5

he averaged 26 points a game

he wasnt even given a chance to get comforatbel in that position either

so lets say if he was give more games he couldve averaged 30 10, 10 easily

u think those stats were a fluke?

check his 05 season
he averaged 27 a game! with 8 rebounds!!

and in 2002?
oh just averaged a meager 31

the moral of the story is JRICH GOAT SMALL FORWARD AND GOAT FATHER

a great family man and father

 

[kiddin like jason]

How jealous are you of his children?

What would you give for a bedtime story from him?

 

[Bonafide]

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

How jealous are you of his children?

What would you give for a bedtime story from him?

You dont want to know...

 

[the game is a foot]

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly

Originally Posted by BrOwNiN187

Originally Posted by The Game is a Foot

Originally Posted by BrOwNiN187

Originally Posted by Clutchshooter

Originally Posted by BrOwNiN187

Originally Posted by Clutchshooter

Originally Posted by BrOwNiN187

Originally Posted by Clutchshooter

Originally Posted by The Game is a Foot

^
Dude, Barkley was a POWER FORWARD.

. i know right?

people need to look up at least a few things before they post.

the way you follow me around you'd bump your head on my +%@ if i stopped suddenly...

'follow' like you're important or something.

no it has nothing to do with frequently commenting on basketball related threads, it 'following' you. yup you hit that nail right on the head.

just like 'the barkley is a small forward' thing.

.

so is shaq by the way. and arvydas sabonis. steve nash nash is a small forward. earl boykins too.

.

didnt you try to reason that urijah faber wasn't good and then compared him to a bunch of heavyweights?

didnt you just say that Charles Barkley was a small forward?

he DID play small forward son...he goes down in the hall as a PF but he played a ton of SF and C in his day. its like calling duncan a C. its not wrong...but its not 100% truth. please go bring in the wheat harvest now, thanks.

Do you REALLY even watch basketball???


CHARLES BARKLEY WAS STRICTLY A POWER FORWARD.

In Auburn - POWER FORWARD

In Philly - POWER FORWARD

In between center Moses Malone and small forward Julius Erving - POWER FORWARD

In Barcelona Spain - POWER FORWARD

In Phoenix - POWER FORWARD

In Atlanta - POWER FORWARD

In Houston - POWER FORWARD

In between Kenny Smith and Ernie Johnson - POWER FORWARD

In a bar brawl - POWER FORWARD

In a jail cell - POWER FORWARD

In a race with %!*# Bavetta - POWER FORWARD

In the Hall of Fame - POWER FORWARD

Listed as 6'6 but really 6'3 with no shoes - POWER FORWARD




And everyone mentioning players like Elgin Baylor and Rick Barry, yes they were the best in their era. But in today's game they all would be shooting guards. Players back then were much shorter than today's prototypical small forwards. By their standards Lebron would be either a power forward or a center.

- from nba.com
1987-1988 REGULAR SEASON
Julius Erving's retirement in May 1987 brought a great deal of sadness to the NBA family. However, it also brought an opportunity for Barkley, who would succeed Erving not only as the Sixers' small forward but also as the team's next superstar.

he isnt ONLY power forward just because it says that on his upper deck card...he was originally an SF..coaches figured he was a mismatch for PFs and put him there because he was quicker and just as strong as most PFs.

He would even be the 5 of the floor at times....DO YOU watch ball? he wasn't STRICKLY anything son.

I'm with a Brown on this one although he primarily played Power Forward. Barkley did play some small forward, didnt he play it on the Dream Team with Malone at Power Forward?

Look... I'm not disputing the fact that Barkley COULD slide to the small forward or center position when NEEDED. That's like saying the Cavs never hadLebron playing the 4 during a game or Scottie Pippen never ran the point for the Bulls when needed. Of course they're all capable of spot minutes at adifferent position. But this ignoramus listed Barkley as an all-time great SMALL FORWARD when the man played POWER FORWARD his whole career.

I'll give you credit on him playing center for a little while in college, but to keep things in perspective how many current NBA players didn't playvarious other positions while in hs/college?

And as for the Dream Team, I'm not 100% sure but I believe Barkley started at the 4 in most of those games and was their leading scorer.

 

[smedroc]

Originally Posted by youngcheezy

Jason Richardson easy

in the 4 games he played small forward in the NBa

4 36:47 9.5 15.5 61.3 3.0 5.5 54.6 3.5 3.8 93.3 1.3 2.5 3.8 2.5 2.0 1.8 0.5 3.5 25.5

he averaged 26 points a game

he wasnt even given a chance to get comforatbel in that position either

so lets say if he was give more games he couldve averaged 30 10, 10 easily

u think those stats were a fluke?

check his 05 season
he averaged 27 a game! with 8 rebounds!!

and in 2002?
oh just averaged a meager 31

the moral of the story is JRICH GOAT SMALL FORWARD AND GOAT FATHER

a great family man and father

damn...his wife lookin kinda young.

 

[the gr8]

man this thread has blown up since i last left so i dont feel likequoting yall or anything.

Just know i agree with what yall are saying pretty much what i said before. And Bron > Pip and it aint even close. Like i said at 24 years old Bron isbetter than Pip has EVER been. Maybe you take Pip away from the Bulls and they get 6 rings but post Bad Boy era theyll still cop a few. Take Bron out ofCleveland than not only $$*! a 60+ win season but $$*! a 25 win season

and once again trust me in no possible way am i a Lebron fan and i hate all these %+@$*%@ Bron riders all over the place in the media. Im just speaking thetruth sons a balla.

 

[dearwinter219]

And.................... I still think Lebron is the best of all time. Question, is a car gonna be the fastest car regardless of how many races it's won?Top speed is top speed right? That's my only analogy/ justification. Don't argue with me. I'm aware of all he accomplishments other SF haveachieved. I'm not ******ed. I'm a pretty logical guy. So I'm not saying this for shock value, nor am I some young whipper snapper with no sense.But I think Lebron is the best TALENT ever at SF. Maybe he will achieve more, maybe he won't. But his ability exceeds all before him IMO.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The funny thing is Elgin Baylor was to the league then what lebron is now, that type of athleticism was simply unheard of back then.

 

[MVP]

See this is what I think irks some of the people about the LeBron argument...You can't call someone the GOAT at their position based only on talent. Youhave to factor in the accomplishments they have achieved and in Pippen's and Bird's case it's not even close. LeBron may be the most athleticallygifted player ever, but until he leads his team to a title then he will not top these two individuals, for me Bron falls above Dominique because they are bothfreaks athletically, but have yet to achieve the ultimate prize.

 

[dearwinter219]

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

See this is what I think irks some of the people about the LeBron argument...You can't call someone the GOAT at their position based only on talent. You have to factor in the accomplishments they have achieved and in Pippen's and Bird's case it's not even close. LeBron may be the most athletically gifted player ever, but until he leads his team to a title then he will not top these two individuals, for me Bron falls above Dominique because they are both freaks athletically, but have yet to achieve the ultimate prize.

Then we're having two different discussions. Ability and achievement are two different things. Lebron has more pure talent than any other SF, period. It's not even debatable. Real talk. I'll ask you again, if one car can do 200mphbut another car has a billion medals won with a max speed of 190 mph, my question is, "which car isfaster?", not, "which driver is better?". The driver, in this scenario, is probably analogous to the team that Lebron is on. (Driver withthe best car = team with the best player, right?). So you can't be for certain whether or not certain achievements are Lebron's to own or Lebronand the Cavs' (like a ring for example). He is the fastest car (best SF)of all time whether or not he has the most accomplished driver.

I'll ask you this, aside from specific abilities like Bird's longball, what CAN'T Lebron do at or above the same level as those that seem to be thegreatest SFs? Say win. Go ahead. so I can say, "Basketball is played with 10 people on the floor. That responsibility will never be his alone. So it'slargely irrellevent when ranking the ability of specific players against eachother....even though he has the best record right now in the leaugue".What's left? Dunking? Check. 4th quarter dominance? Check. Scoring? Double check. Passing? Check. Defense? As oflate...check. Heart? CHECK! He's hitting on every cyllinder and then some.

This isn't a question of legaccy, it's a question of ability. Lebron is able to do more than any SF before him..

 

[ghenges]

No mention of Jamal Mashburn?


He could drop 40 on anyone on any given night. Not even like an epic 40, but like a casual 40. The dude was impossible to guard. A matchup nightmare forcoaches.

 

[MVP]

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

See this is what I think irks some of the people about the LeBron argument...You can't call someone the GOAT at their position based only on talent. You have to factor in the accomplishments they have achieved and in Pippen's and Bird's case it's not even close. LeBron may be the most athletically gifted player ever, but until he leads his team to a title then he will not top these two individuals, for me Bron falls above Dominique because they are both freaks athletically, but have yet to achieve the ultimate prize.

Then we're having two different discussions. Ability and achievement are two different things. Lebron has more pure talent than any other SF, period. It's not even debatable. Real talk. I'll ask you again, if one car can do 200mph but another car has a billion medals won with a max speed of 190 mph, my question is, "which car is faster?", not, "which driver is better?". The driver, in this scenario, is probably analogous to the team that Lebron is on. (Driver with the best car = team with the best player, right?). So you can't be for certain whether or not certain achievements are Lebron's to own or Lebron and the Cavs' (like a ring for example). He is the fastest car (best SF) of all time whether or not he has the most accomplished driver.

I'll ask you this, aside from specific abilities like Bird's longball, what CAN'T Lebron do at or above the same level as those that seem to be the greatest SFs? Say win. Go ahead. so I can say, "Basketball is played with 10 people on the floor. That responsibility will never be his alone. So it's largely irrellevent when ranking the ability of specific players against eachother....even though he has the best record right now in the leaugue". What's left? Dunking? Check. 4th quarter dominance? Check. Scoring? Double check. Passing? Check. Defense? As of late...check. Heart? CHECK! He's hitting on every cyllinder and then some.

This isn't a question of legaccy, it's a question of ability. Lebron is able to do more than any SF before him..

I get what your saying, but I have a different definition of when talking about GOAT at a particular position it's not only about ability.Sure LeBron CAN do those things an maybe at a higher level, but he HASN'T YET. He's not the best outside shooter or defender at this stage of hiscareer, he's made strides and still has room to improve, but WILL he? We can just assume yes, we have to wait until he does, I mean it took 6 years for himto seem to want to take an interest on the defensive end of the floor. And yes you can say basketball is played with 10 people on the floor, but yet in stillwhen we're talking about the GOAT they were all winners. Russell, Kareem, Duncan, Jordan, Magic, etc. and that's where LeBron has to separate himselfso it's not really only his talent and ability to do different things on the court is his strongest argument. When he's able to harness that andincorporate the leadership necessary to be a winner then he can have the top spot, but now I can't give him that title.

 

[CP1708]

Someone please tell me this dude didn't come in here with all this debatin and say J-Rich is goat DAD!!!!!!!

Good lord man.

 

[southsidechi773]

^^^

Imo,it is Pippen,because he played all-nba level defense since day one compared to all those other guys,including Lebron.

Granted all those other HOF's can give you 25 any night,but they didn't have the defense like Pippen and he could do the same offensively as everyoneelse,but didn't have to.

Lebron has to work on his jump shot and defense.and he has the talent to do both more so defense,because I don't think his jumpshot is going to get anybetter.It is almost like he is too strong or something whenever he shoot.

As far as accolades,even though I don't agree,I have feeling he will start receiving some hardware in about two weeks.

 

[531]

It's either Bird or Pippen. No one else comes close.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by SouthsideChi773

^^^

Imo,it is Pippen,because he played all-nba level defense since day one compared to all those other guys,including Lebron.

Granted all those other HOF's can give you 25 any night,but they didn't have the defense like Pippen and he could do the same offensively as everyone else,but didn't have to.

What makes you believe that? There is nothing to suggest he was better offensively than Bird, Nique, Elgin, or Doc.

 

[mister friendly]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by SouthsideChi773

^^^

Imo,it is Pippen,because he played all-nba level defense since day one compared to all those other guys,including Lebron.

Granted all those other HOF's can give you 25 any night,but they didn't have the defense like Pippen and he could do the same offensively as everyone else,but didn't have to.

What makes you believe that? There is nothing to suggest he was better offensively than Bird, Nique, Elgin, or Doc.

Exactly. Yes Pippen put up good numbers when Jordan was gone but he was never at the level offensively that Bird,Elgin,LeBron,Dr J. Rick Barry were. That is afact.

I'm not hating on Pippen but people are taking his game WAY too far.