NBA Legacy Thread, Update Resumes

[bhzmafia14]

This is a fallacy....and you just talking out your azzz and letting the hate blind you .

You put Steph, Bron, KD, Harden, Cp3, Kawhi, or
on almost ANY functional team.....

That’s 50 wins. You REALLY forget Steph was averaging 24 & 8 in a Mark Jackson offense....leading team to 48-50 wins in the West with an average roster playing a subpar team offense right?

Ehhh ... this could go so many ways, but don't want it to get too off topic.

 

[bonafide hustla]

This is a fallacy....and you just talking out your azzz and letting the hate blind you .

You put Steph, Bron, KD, Harden, Cp3, Kawhi, or
on almost ANY functional team.....

That’s 50 wins. You REALLY forget Steph was averaging 24 & 8 in a Mark Jackson offense....leading team to 48-50 wins in the West with an average roster playing a subpar team offense right?

50 wins (Steph pre-Kerr warriors, JH pre this year) doesn't mean "contender" boss

 

[bonafide hustla]

If you think Steph is worse than Harden defensively after the performance he just had against Harden and Cp3....idk what to tell you . He was pretty damn good on defense in that Houston series....and if anything...is underrated as hell as a defender. Metrics and the eye test tell you he’s a great positional team defender, great hands for steals, and an above average on ball defender. He doesn’t get beat. He said always there. He checks out as an above average to good defender.

And what do you mean he’s the sole reason teams are able to compete with the warriors? They’re some seconds away from winning 4 Straight hops . 2016 was the anomaly.

https://www.theringer.com/platform/...on-james-steph-curry-mismatch-2018-nba-finals

And I’m not trying to say dude has been some elite 1 on 1 defender (because modern basketball isn’t about that at the PG position). But he understands his role in the team concept and executes it well against almost every team. They’ve amongst been the best defense in the league....and he’s been a part of that. He does his part as a Team defender


He’s RIGHT there. Weird case for a great since his run is so dominant but compact.

Draymond = DPOY candidate. KD + Klay + Iggy are all high level/high IQ defenders. It's pretty easy to flail around and reach with these guys out there lol. Eye test? He's getting either blown by or bullied all series long. Teams are targeting him and drawing up wrinkles to get him in PNR all series to get a direct score, assist, hockey assist. Yes some of those rando bigs get their turn, but it starts primarily with Curry. He can't help it that his ankles are weak I guess, but he's kinda frail in general also.

Oh, and sorry but I can't really debate stats, they don't articulate an argument though - they are just what they are.

 

[dacomeup]

I think it's hard to say that Steph on any team guarantees 50 wins. Even pre-Kerr, that roster had talent. Just underutilized. We'll never know though. For some of these other guys you can literally point to history to show it.

 

[leavemeglazzies]

Even if we completely ignore the fact that Durant is winning rings with a 73-9 supporting cast and value his rings as much as Hakeem's 93-94 one, he still only has one regular season MVP and as of yet 0 all-defensive teams. He better start making those real fast.

And as much as him joining a 73-9 supporting cast helped him in terms of winning, playing on a team that stacked definitely shaved 2-4 points from what he would've averaged with the Thunder. He would've had a real shot of breaking Kareem's all-time scoring record, but this way it's not going to happen unless he keeps averaging 25 into his late 30s. Him missing 20 games per season isn't helping either.

I think Durant will be ranked somewhere around 10-12. But wherever he ranks, he will be ranked higher as a scorer than as an all-round player.

 

[wavycrocket]

Draymond = DPOY candidate. KD + Klay + Iggy are all high level/high IQ defenders. It's pretty easy to flail around and reach with these guys out there lol. Eye test? He's getting either blown by or bullied all series long. Teams are targeting him and drawing up wrinkles to get him in PNR all series to get a direct score, assist, hockey assist. Yes some of those rando bigs get their turn, but it starts primarily with Curry. He can't help it that his ankles are weak I guess, but he's kinda frail in general also.

Oh, and sorry but I can't really debate stats, they don't articulate an argument though - they are just what they are.

He gets sought out by only 2 teams really. The Rockets (who’s entire offense is predicated on finding the weakest link and isolating)...and Cleveland (who has LeBron James).

Every other team doesn’t “seek him out”...and it’s CLEARL not an effective strategy since the Warriors have been a good defensive team since 2013.

He’s the least imposing and least talented defender in a lineup of defenders that are better and bigger than he is. That’s all it is. But he’s by no means a “liability”....and is a better defender than the top tier guards who have way better tools (Russ, Harden, Wall, Dame, etc etc).

You say “teams are targeting him”....like they’re doing it successfully. It clearly isn’t working. Put the hate aside man

I think it's hard to say that Steph on any team guarantees 50 wins. Even pre-Kerr, that roster had talent. Just underutilized. We'll never know though. For some of these other guys you can literally point to history to show it.

I think it does man. A guy that proved he can be the #1 option on 67 & 73 win teams.....and his sheer impact on the court tells me he can.

Let’s also not forget what he was doing when David Led was hurt....and he was balling in a backcourt alongside an inexperienced 2nd year Klay Thompson. Rookie Draymond Green who didn’t play at all. Rookie Harrison Barnes and Carl Landry. Not to say those 2012-2014 teams didn’t have talent....but they weren’t loaded...and Steph was a huge part as to why those teams were successful.

Also....I have a “41 win” theory about every top 10 player in the nba. The top 5 can get you 50+wins with an average roster...the bottom 5 can get you at least 41-48 wins..with variable games in either direction.

But to be on topic....Steph has been insanely dominant these past 5 years as an all around basketball player. You just blind if you can’t acknowledge it.

 

[MVP]

Steph's resume at this point is just kinda light compared to all the other top 15 guys.

 

[wavycrocket]

Steph's resume at this point is just kinda light compared to all the other top 15 guys.

From a longevity standpoint. It is. But from an impact standpoint....it’s Dense. 3 Rings, 2MVPS, -Scoring Title (forgot about steals leader ). But those are 3 prominent accolades that many can’t say they have. Especially in a 4 year span. The voters tricked off the 2015 Finals MVP. But other than that....that’s pretty outstanding.

His rise is mad interesting because he just turned 30. I think he has another 3 years of playing at this level....which by the end of that time...the resume looks more fulller.

 

[MVP]

From a longevity standpoint. It is. But from an impact standpoint....it’s Dense. 3 Rings, 2MVPS, -Scoring Title (forgot about steals leader ). But those are 3 prominent accolades that many can’t say they have. Especially in a 4 year span. The voters tricked off the 2015 Finals MVP. But other than that....that’s pretty outstanding.

His rise is mad interesting because he just turned 30. I think he has another 3 years of playing at this level....which by the end of that time...the resume looks more fulller.

I guess but by that time he'll be in what year 12 or 13? West and Big O only played 14 seasons but made All NBA 1st team 9 times. Jerry West 10 times. Steph has made 2 in 9 seasons.

 

[bhzmafia14]

Steph's resume at this point is just kinda light compared to all the other top 15 guys.

That's how I see it too. I don't see him having another 5 years of dominance/greatness. I kinda feel like he lost out on his last chance to win a finals MVP too. They've been to 4 straight finals and the team is bound to not stay together the next 3-5 years. Other teams are bound to get better. Injuries are bound to happen. He's not seeing another regular season MVP.

All in all, he will continue to dominate the 3 point records, but I'm not sure he will even get into the top 25 in points. If he continus to play 79-80 games a season (which is unlikely), he can put up 1900 points a season over the next 5 years, that'll place him right outside the top 30. He could potentially reach top 25 in steals. Will not reach a milestone mark in assists.

Like I said, he has one of the weirdest resumes for an all-time great. One of the best 5 year stretches ever, but the way his career started + how it potentially may end could be a huge factor.

 

[dacomeup]

I think it does man. A guy that proved he can be the #1 option on 67 & 73 win teams.....and his sheer impact on the court tells me he can.

Let’s also not forget what he was doing when David Led was hurt....and he was balling in a backcourt alongside an inexperienced 2nd year Klay Thompson. Rookie Draymond Green who didn’t play at all. Rookie Harrison Barnes and Carl Landry. Not to say those 2012-2014 teams didn’t have talent....but they weren’t loaded...and Steph was a huge part as to why those teams were successful.

Also....I have a “41 win” theory about every top 10 player in the nba. The top 5 can get you 50+wins with an average roster...the bottom 5 can get you at least 41-48 wins..with variable games in either direction.

But to be on topic....Steph has been insanely dominant these past 5 years as an all around basketball player. You just blind if you can’t acknowledge it.

But you don't have to be on a "loaded" team to get 50 wins. They got to 50 the first time in 2013-2014? Klay was pretty damn good that season. A younger Iggy, Bogut and David was still good. Don't have to rewrite history about the talent on the squad, nor does it have to take away from Steph being incredible. I just don't know if Steph is a guaranteed 50 wins if you plop him in any situation.

 

[clarkkent415]

But you don't have to be on a "loaded" team to get 50 wins. They got to 50 the first time in 2013-2014? Klay was pretty damn good that season. A younger Iggy, Bogut and David was still good. Don't have to rewrite history about the talent on the squad, nor does it have to take away from Steph being incredible. I just don't know if Steph is a guaranteed 50 wins if you plop him in any situation.

Lol.

 

[clarkkent415]

Steph is such a weird case to me when it comes to talking about greatest players of all time.

Just a weird case for a superstar because its hard to argue anyone being in the type of situation he's been in. Literally perfect fit, perfect scenario, etc. He's great at what he does. One of the best 5 year spans ever for a NBA player. I guess my questions for him will come from longevity and if he can continue to build his resume. His dominance started a little late (5th year of his career). He's already 30. Can you see him having another 5 years similar to his last 5?

Having 3 titles, 2 MVP's, 5x all star, 5x all-NBA and all the 3 point accolades already gave him an excellent status. But, when we start talking about all-time greats at PG, how will his career resume look in comparison to others before him? Does longevity even matter with him considering the 5-year span he had?

I really can’t stand this bolded part. I don’t know why people take points off for playing with that drafted core. People consider Magic top two and he played with KAREEM. Why slight Steph?

Draymond offensively isn’t great and Klay really can’t dribble, pass, rebound, finish around the rim.

Dray and Klay weren’t top three picks, they were largely a product of Steph’s greatness. Developed over time and for him to be a aid to their careers should count for a lot. On other teams those two wouldn’t be as good.

I bet if Steph played with great overall offensive talents (instead of optimal specialist) like Wade, Bosh, Kyrie and Love instead of Bron, he would have at least 5 rings...

That’s massive influence. Y’all get too fascinated by the more pronounced traditional stats that really mask true on court value.

 

[leavemeglazzies]

Where kd going to end up in y’all eyes?

And I can’t be the only one saying draymond green ain’t a HOF player

Coming from someone who hates his guts, he is definitely well on his way to HOF. 3 rings as the defensive anchor of a franchise while leading his team in assists. A mixture of Pippen and Rodman.

And speaking of Rodman, Draymond has already more all-star appearances (3) than Dennis Rodman had in his entire career (2).

A better discussion would be is whether Andre Iguodala is a HOFer. 3 time champ, Finals MVP, all-star, all-defensive 1st team, multiple 18-5-5 seasons.

 

[wavycrocket]

I really can’t stand this bolded part. I don’t know why people take points off for playing with that drafted core. People consider Magic top two and he played with KAREEM. Why slight Steph?

Draymond offensively isn’t great and Klay really can’t dribble, pass, rebound, finish around the rim.

Dray and Klay weren’t top three picks, they were largely a product of Steph’s greatness. Developed over time and for him to be a aid to their careers should count for a lot. On other teams those two wouldn’t be as good.

I bet if Steph played with great overall offensive talents (instead of optimal specialist) like Wade, Bosh, Kyrie and Love instead of Bron, he would have at least 5 rings...

That’s value. Y’all get too fascinated by the more pronounced traditional stats that really mask true on court value.

People say the bolded part....because they don’t REALLY believe in Steph’s full ability .

They see “just a shooter”....who benefits from playing with great players and coaching. They don’t see what he individually brings to that team that unlocks it all...while also benefiting from the things they detract him for.

I think @jsindaa said it best. He’s probably the most under appreciated player in the league because many don’t fully understand his impact on the court....and the subtle stuff he does that wins basketball games that may not show up directly in the stat sheet.

bonafide hustla post represents just blind dislike and surface level knowledge of basketball.

But you don't have to be on a "loaded" team to get 50 wins. They got to 50 the first time in 2013-2014? Klay was pretty damn good that season. A younger Iggy, Bogut and David was still good. Don't have to rewrite history about the talent on the squad, nor does it have to take away from Steph being incredible. I just don't know if Steph is a guaranteed 50 wins if you plop him in any situation.

That’s my point. They got to 47 the year before with less talent, 50 the next year and he made a HUGE leap and was unlocked by great coaching after that. I’m not trying to re-write history. I’m just pointing out that Steph Curry doesn’t need an other worldly talented squad to be successful....and “history” will tell you that him...and a few other elite guys currently playing are the ones capable of doing what he’s done.

And very few have done what he’s done in this 4-5 year stretch. Even the all time greats.

 

[wavycrocket]

A better discussion would be is whether Andre Iguodala is a HOFer. 3 time champ, Finals MVP, all-star, all-defensive 1st team, multiple 18-5-5 seasons.

He shouldn’t be IMO. That’s a really thin resume.

 

[clarkkent415]

People say the bolded part....because they don’t REALLY believe in Steph’s full ability .

They see “just a shooter”....who benefits from playing with great players and coaching. They don’t see what he individually brings to that team that unlocks it all...while also benefiting from the things they detract him for.

I think @jsindaa said it best. He’s probably the most under appreciated player in the league because many don’t fully understand his impact on the court....and the subtle stuff he does that wins basketball games that may not show up directly in the stat sheet.

bonafide hustla post represents just blind dislike and surface level knowledge of basketball.



That’s my point. They got to 47 the year before with less talent, 50 the next year and he made a HUGE leap and was unlocked by great coaching after that. I’m not trying to re-write history. I’m just pointing out that Steph Curry doesn’t need an other worldly talented squad to be successful....and “history” will tell you that him...and a few other elite guys currently playing are the ones capable of doing what he’s done.

And very few have done what he’s done in this 4-5 year stretch. Even the all time greats.

Factual. They don’t understand. Even something as simple as setting screens opens up more offensively than most who are being doubled teamed.

It’s no exaggeration when I say just by having Steph on the court he makes everyone better.

You give Steph the same rosters that Westbrook had when KD was there, Miami Lebron, 15-17 Cavs roster, they easily are better teams. Can’t say the same if it was reversed...

 

[dacomeup]

You give Steph the same rosters that Westbrook had when KD was there, Miami Lebron, 15-17 Cavs roster, they easily are better teams. Can’t say the same if it was reversed...

The Cavs in 15-17 are easily a better team if you swap him and Bron? Miami LeBron era?

I’m just pointing out that Steph Curry doesn’t need an other worldly talented squad to be successful....

That's an entirely different argument.

 

[clarkkent415]

The Cavs in 15-17 are easily a better team if you swap him and Bron? Miami LeBron era?


That's an entirely different argument.

I believe so, Bosh wouldn’t be relagated to a corner jump shooter. Unlocking his impact and others would be the difference.

Bron will probably have the bigger traditional stat games but more impactful? There’s argument there.

I don’t think many folks realize what the Warriors have done to the league and where that largely stems from...

 

[MVP]

Nah as much as I loathe Bron that's a reach. Bron was the best 2 way player in the league while in Miami those b2b seasons.

Are you suggesting that Miami would have won more than 2 in 4 years with Steph? Cause we saw Steph have his 2011 Dallas series in 2016.

 

[dacomeup]

Yea, that's a ridiculous statement. Bron was an absolute terror on defense down there as well. Steph simply cannot reach that level.

 

[wavycrocket]

2015 & 2016 Steph are on the level of Bron’s best seasons.

He just choked in the playoffs

 

[clarkkent415]

Nah as much as I loathe Bron that's a reach. Bron was the best 2 way player in the league while in Miami those b2b seasons.

Are you suggesting that Miami would have won more than 2 in 4 years with Steph? Cause we saw Steph have his 2011 Dallas series in 2016.

That’s wayyyyyy off base. Steph was still clearly injured, Draymond was suspended, Bogut and Iggy were done, it still went seven and came down to one possession.

That Dallas series, Bron was HEALTHY, still averaged less than 2016 Steph, and it only went SIX. Plus, he did have Wade who averaged 20 to help, Steph didn’t have anybody else dynamic like that, plus he was going against two other superstars plus one all star. Bron struggled against Jason Terry, that’s not the same.

Steph would have LIT into Jason terry and washed Kidd lol.

 

[dland24]

But you don't have to be on a "loaded" team to get 50 wins. They got to 50 the first time in 2013-2014? Klay was pretty damn good that season. A younger Iggy, Bogut and David was still good. Don't have to rewrite history about the talent on the squad, nor does it have to take away from Steph being incredible. I just don't know if Steph is a guaranteed 50 wins if you plop him in any situation.

One of my least favorite Warriors of all time. Using the word "good" to describe David Lee is incredibly generous IMO. One of the worst defensive players I have ever seen, if not THE worst. Like Steve Nash bad. However, being that bad as a big magnifies it even more.

 

[clarkkent415]

Yea, that's a ridiculous statement. Bron was an absolute terror on defense down there as well. Steph simply cannot reach that level.

Definitely, but that only trasnlasted to two rings coming out of a weaker conference.