NT's LEGAL Gun Thread UPDATE...First Youtube Firearm Review Page 61

[smoke-dog]

This debate has been going on forever... The 1911 design has been around since 1911 and is the blueprint for all modern pistols. But it's pretty much been relegated to collectors and shooting competitions. Yeah it's pretty and comes in cool finishes and you can customize and make it cute but not too many who carry a gun for a living (cops, military) carry one. I'm sure the occasional Vincent Vega type gangster might but at over 2 1/2 pounds and only 7 rounds of .45, it's not practical. Add to that all the moving parts, it's not easy to field strip, all the silly safeties, the frequent cleaning and oil it requires... I'll take a Glock 21 over any 1911 any day. It holds more ammo, is much lighter (even with 14 rd mags) requires way less maintenance, and is more reliable. I've put 1000's of rounds through Glocks over the last 13 years. Guess how many misfires I've had...

 

[SIETE TRES LA]

This debate has been going on forever... The 1911 design has been around since 1911 and is the blueprint for all modern pistols. But it's pretty much been relegated to collectors and shooting competitions. Yeah it's pretty and comes in cool finishes and you can customize and make it cute but not too many who carry a gun for a living (cops, military) carry one. I'm sure the occasional Vincent Vega type gangster might but at over 2 1/2 pounds and only 7 rounds of .45, it's not practical. Add to that all the moving parts, it's not easy to field strip, all the silly safeties, the frequent cleaning and oil it requires... I'll take a Glock 21 over any 1911 any day. It holds more ammo, is much lighter (even with 14 rd mags) requires way less maintenance, and is more reliable. I've put 1000's of rounds through Glocks over the last 13 years. Guess how many misfires I've had...

Brb going to restart my computer and see if anybody cares bout' how many 1911's you've had










F' with you bro. It's all personal preferance. I'm a glock guy myself.

 

[smoke-dog]

Brb going to restart my computer and see if anybody cares bout' how many 1911's you've had










F' with you bro. It's all personal preferance. I'm a glock guy myself.

Not sure what you tryin to say but I think you misread my post.

And F you too...

 

[richiecotite]

^ LOL, he said he's f'in with you (ie. just messing around)

This isn't the thread for non sense. We all agree, and disagree amicably and maintain respect for one another.


I say all that to say you're wrong about 1911's.

A quality 1911, built to the original specs, is a thoroughly reliable serviceable gun. The design isn't overly complicated; it does have more parts than most plastic wonder 9's that are so popular. But think about this for a minute.

-The gun is a 100 year old design that is still used by many police and military agencies/departments. There are still guys that shoot guys in the face carry these for a reason.
-There have been no less than 100 different companies making the same gun for over 100 years. You think everyone making a 1911 style gun is going to stick to the original specs? Or handfit guns like the millions that were produced for WWII? Different compnies use different specs and have different quality control/ quality assurance. Some have very little and slap guns together, others are better.
-Only one company makes glocks. I guess a few if you include companies that make glock frames, slides, barrels, etc.
-All a good 1911 needs is good magazines (see the bit above about different specs and quality) and lube, same as any other gun.
- 1911's are more labor intensive, which is one of the main reason why military/ large police agencies are moving away from them. Plastic guns are easier to work on.

 

[smoke-dog]

^ LOL, he said he's f'in with you (ie. just messing around)

This isn't the thread for non sense. We all agree, and disagree amicably and maintain respect for one another.


I say all that to say you're wrong about 1911's.

A quality 1911, built to the original specs, is a thoroughly reliable serviceable gun. The design isn't overly complicated; it does have more parts than most plastic wonder 9's that are so popular. But think about this for a minute.

-The gun is a 100 year old design that is still used by many police and military agencies/departments. There are still guys that shoot guys in the face carry these for a reason.
-There have been no less than 100 different companies making the same gun for over 100 years. You think everyone making a 1911 style gun is going to stick to the original specs? Or handfit guns like the millions that were produced for WWII? Different compnies use different specs and have different quality control/ quality assurance. Some have very little and slap guns together, others are better.
-Only one company makes glocks. I guess a few if you include companies that make glock frames, slides, barrels, etc.
-All a good 1911 needs is good magazines (see the bit above about different specs and quality) and lube, same as any other gun.
- 1911's are more labor intensive, which is one of the main reason why military/ large police agencies are moving away from them. Plastic guns are easier to work on.

His comments came across as disrespect. Not sure how else to take "F' with you bro" Maybe "F'n" would have been taken differently.

But yeah, thanks, you basically said what I said. More, parts, labor intensive, folks who carry for a living have moved away from it, plastic guns easier to work on...

 

[richiecotite]

It's hard to gauge sarcasm on the internet. All I was trying to say is that for the most part, unlike many other threads in general, this one doesn't get knuckleheads coming in commenting or trolling, so thats one thing no one has to worry about in this thread.



I still disagree with your premise 1911's are less reliable than glocks. 1911's still:

-very easy to conceal
-more accurate
-shoots a proven handgun caliber
-still popular for a reason

Average Competition shooters shoot more pistol rounds per year than 95% of police officers and military members. Red dot sights, off set sights, magwells, etc all came from competition shooters. Don't totally dismiss the 1911 as a collector/competition gun. There's still a lot of serious guys that carry 1911's for social work. It still performs many jobs pretty well.

FWIW, my expeience with glocks was a new production gen 3 17 and a gen 2 19. I had more stovepipes and fail to feeds in 700 rounds with the 19 than 4,000 rounds through my springfield 1911's. Glock 17 ran like a top though....

 

[jewseejay]

+1 on eff the idea that you cant carry a 1911 and it won't go bang everytime and need all this excessive cleaning and maintenance to make it run well... The only time I carry nowadays it's a 3 inch 1911. No I would not like to have it on me all day but I never do/would. If anything all day camping or something I'd be open carrying. And prob a 22 but anyway these days like was said there are millions of 1911 variations. Lotsa different materials... Muchhh lighter. With an alum alloy frame and alum case shells I bet you could get a 1911 to glock weight and it'd be thinner and more accurate. Powermagll get u 10 rds too if u think that's necessary

 

[peebee85]

how hard is it to get a ccw in the state of california?

 

[zapatohead408]

how hard is it to get a ccw in the state of california?

I hear it's possible in very rural area.

Impossible in the big city areas like the bay area unless you donate lots of money to sheriff's campaigns.

 

[peebee85]

I hear it's possible in very rural area.

Impossible in the big city areas like the bay area unless you donate lots of money to sheriff's campaigns.

I live in los angeles county , so i guess its impossible as well.

 

[ar guy]

Painted the AR, turned out awesome.

 

[jhowlett]

Looking for any pros and cons on a cz-75 vs a beretta px4 in 9mm

 

[isyouserious]

Looking for any pros and cons on a cz-75 vs a beretta px4 in 9mm

CZ's from my experience are great shooters.  Very accurate out of the box but a mediocre trigger. I own one myself (CZ P0-1) and its my best 9mm accuracy wise.

If you're going to compare the CZ with Beretta it would be more comparable to the 92fs series as both are similar material make up and weight.  The PX4 storm is a polymer frame so it'll be a little lighter.

 

[jhowlett]

Looking for any pros and cons on a cz-75 vs a beretta px4 in 9mm

CZ's from my experience are great shooters.  Very accurate out of the box but a mediocre trigger. I own one myself (CZ P0-1) and its my best 9mm accuracy wise.

If you're going to compare the CZ with Beretta it would be more comparable to the 92fs series as both are similar material make up and weight.  The PX4 storm is a polymer frame so it'll be a little lighter.

Can the trigger be fixed? I'm planning on shooting the cz-75 , px4 and now the 92fs this weekend.

 

[richiecotite]

You can definitely tweak a cz's trigger, all sorts of springs, sears, etc to get the trigger how you like it. Also custom shops like CZ custom and Cajun Gunworks specialize in CZ work.

CZ 75 is a proven design in a capable caliber that has extensive aftermarket support. Beretta Px4, not as much. PX4 users have experienced the barrel locking (i.e. spent case getting stuck in barrel needing a mallet to clear it out), likely because of the rotary locking method (most guns use a tilting barrel lock)

Though Bill Wilson of 1911/Wilson Combat fame is a big fan of the PX4. Thats gotta mean something.

92's are getting hot right now, plus they're still reasonable on the second hand market, ton of aftermarket support, and good, inexpensive mags.

If it were me, I'd go for the 92 or CZ

 

[richiecotite]

Oh, and at an AR Guy sighting. Whats good homie?

 

[isyouserious]

Just like what Richiecotite said.  CZ has a pretty big after market, and I've felt triggers from CZ Custom shop guns ( CZ 75 Shado and SDP) and they are 

.  Also some of the test targets I've seen from CZ pistols got me looking 

.  Impressive stuff.

The 92fs also has a wide variety of aftermarket parts as well.  Even Wilson Combat, a company widely renowned for their custom work, has started to add their touch to the 92 series.

As far as the PX4 Storm is concerned... well they do have a $75 rebate going on for em....

 

[mplsdunk]

jewseejay

What 1911 do you have? I'm not planning or carrying a lot. I could just keep whatever I get under the register too so it isn't covered in grease and salt daily. Maintenance doesn't scare me. Whatever I get will get shot a ton. That's why I still want something somewhat decent to shoot. Not a baby .380.

 

[jhowlett]

Thanks for the info guys. Kinds leaning towards the cz just from what I'm hearing, but not ruling out the 92fs till I shoot both. The px4 I think is ruled out.

Another question how much of a difference does the barrel lenght make on accuracy? Is it significant from 4" to 5" ?

 

[isyouserious]

http://www.beretta.com/en-us/px4promo/ - PX4 Storm $75 Rebate

http://www.beretta.com/en-us/bdt/amp/ - Beretta $50 rebate for Military

http://www.colt.com/Rebates.aspx - Colt $100 rebate on 01991 Government model

http://hk-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/HK-DAYS_4-x-5.5-COUPON-CC.jpg - $200 on almost all Heckler & Koch pistols and rifles.  No VP9 though

 

[jewseejay]

jewseejay

What 1911 do you have? I'm not planning or carrying a lot. I could just keep whatever I get under the register too so it isn't covered in grease and salt daily. Maintenance doesn't scare me. Whatever I get will get shot a ton. That's why I still want something somewhat decent to shoot. Not a baby .380.

It's an ATI FX titan officer size.... U can get em for 350 brand new hahhah it's awesome solid as a rock. No slide wobble. Never misfired even once (my ruger.glock and Taurus1911 all did at least once) it requires minimal cleaning . The finish is pretty tough. No holster wear yet jus some slight chipping around the handle but I really do treat it like a glock....

Edit: honestly if your handy with a dremel and take ur time with a few grades of steel wool you should be able to get any modern handgun cycling reliably. So long as the hammer/striker is functioning and intact your guns will always run. I don't understand why ppl think 1911s require so much babying. Few more parts sure. Field strip ten times as time consuming sure. But when or why are you field stripping? I'm not in Afghanistan. Hah I've mud tested it serval times.... Goes bang everytime.

 

[richiecotite]

Thanks for the info guys. Kinds leaning towards the cz just from what I'm hearing, but not ruling out the 92fs till I shoot both. The px4 I think is ruled out.

Another question how much of a difference does the barrel lenght make on accuracy? Is it significant from 4" to 5" ?

Barrel length has little effect on accuracy. A longer barrel means more velocity and a longer sight radius, which can have an effect on accuracy. Look at hk's, they make some of the most accurate pistols mass produced and besides the expert line, none of their pistols have barrels longer than 4.5 inches. A lot of people report the g26 being more accurate than g17's. I Like the 5" mp pro for competition because recoil is minimal, I'm quicker back on my sights and quicker on the trigger, but I'm noticeably slower drawing from concealment than with my 4" and shorter guns.


FWIW about CZ's; I shot the best 10 round group of my life with a cz p07, 3" group at 20 yds with 124 gr gold dots. Just didn't like the pistol and magazine prices.

 

[mplsdunk]

I actually checked one of those ati 1911's out last week at cabella's. They aren't bad at all.

 

[dropten]

99% done. Just need a dust cover that's currently oos and some sights and possibly a fore grip

 

[ar guy]

Oh, and

at an AR Guy sighting. Whats good homie?

Been good man, trying to shoot as many IDPA matches as a can lately. What's new with you?