NT's LEGAL Gun Thread UPDATE...First Youtube Firearm Review Page 61

[seattle206]

Some more pictures...

Daniel Defense M4
Phanton 5C2 flash hider, Daniel Defense Omega FF rail, Knights Armament VFG, Troy BUIS, very basic.

Del-ton mated to Essential Arms.  THIS IS MY GO TO WEAPON FOR ALL CIRCUMSTANCES.
Magpul CTR milspec, Troy BUIS, Eotech XPS3, Magpul Miad, YHM FF quad rail, YHM Phantom 5C2 flash hider, Magpul XTM

Sig Sauer 522.  Didnt even come with iron sights.

 

[youneedthese]

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

Originally Posted by youneedthese

Hey Elder and other experts,

I was thinking of adding something new to my small collection. I wanted to go the route of either a; shotgun, rifle, D.E, or revolver(something big like the SW 500). Now since I'm still fairly new to this, what are some suggestions or pointers you might have in making a selection in either of those categories? All feedback is appreciated and respected. Thanks

To piggyback off of 206, the D.E. is a very unwieldy pistol, and for self defense it has limited application, but from a pure collectors standpoint it is a extremely nice piece to have. So ultimately it depends on what you want to do with it. Little known is that the DE is actually a fine hunting gun, also you do have options to change the caliber to .44 and .357, not to mention different barrel lengths and optics. Basically DE's got a bad rap from always being shown in movies and OG's holding it sideways to shoot (try that if you want...you wouldn't be able to fap for 2 months)

.

As far as rifles, what are you interested in? NATO style (M-16, M-14, M-1's), Soviet Bloc (AK's, SK's and variants), American Classics (Remington 700 series, Savage, etc), Teutonic (Heckler and Koch, Mauser), or the FN's and Sig Sauers of the world? Let me know and maybe I can help you come up with a few for the list.

Thx guys, great info on this. For a DE i love the style and feel of it, but i love the power and force behind the 500. So i guess i really want to collect and have a great home defense at the same time(might sound silly). But i have my 40cal for the, so im kinda lost. As far as a rifle.... i love the nato style and soviet bloc. Since i have never fired or to be honest studied rifles i really have no idea on which type to look or go for. Thx again. You guys really make this post come to life. I'm im Austin TX so if anyone wants to hit a range holla at me

 

[seattle206]

^^

The best thing to do is ask, then research it, and finally go to the store and handle it.

 

[josephskc]

Damn 206 That is a VERY nice collection you've got there!! I want to be on par with you when it comes to AR's but sadly mine only consists of an AR-15, and 2 AK47s

Soon I'll upgrade it all!

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Thx guys, great info on this. For a DE i love the style and feel of it, but i love the power and force behind the 500. So i guess i really want to collect and have a great home defense at the same time(might sound silly). But i have my 40cal for the, so im kinda lost. As far as a rifle.... i love the nato style and soviet bloc. Since i have never fired or to be honest studied rifles i really have no idea on which type to look or go for. Thx again. You guys really make this post come to life. I'm im Austin TX so if anyone wants to hit a range holla at me

Guns and shooting is such a personal preference type of thing, with that being said there are a few universal truths that can help you to decide which rifle you might want to start with first. Between NATO an Soviet Bloc weapons there are some differences and depending on your prefererence you can go from there.

Soviet style weapons are very reliable, very rugged, can take a beating and still shoot, from an aesthetic standpoint they have more "character", and are overall less complicated and not as expensive on average (though some can cost even more than high end AR's). Their only knock is that they are perceived as being less accurate, but a skilled shooter can still hit *+@+ with them with no problem and they do have accurized versions such as the Dragonuv/variants.

NATO style weapons (more specifically AR's and their variants), are a proven and standardized design which can even be considered modular. You can mix and match lowers (which houses the trigger group) and uppers (which houses the bolt group, barrel, optics/sights/furniture). You can buy a high end AR off the bat, or start simple and build it up by accessorizing. People think AR and say .223/5.56 Caliber automatically, but there is a growing market for 7.62, 6.5 Grendel, and 6.8 Caliber. So there is variety. They are pretty accurate right out of the box and very easy to shoot. BUT they require more care than the Soviet weapons and will not take the same amount of abuse and still be as reliable as the Soviet style weapons. Sometimes people OD on the accessories because it's too easy to do with all the rails and attachment points. Oh and look into the piston driven AR's...much cleaner and easier to clean than the direct impingement method which just routes the gas back into the breach area to cycle the bolt.

My apologies for the mini dissertation, ultimately it's your choice and your preference, just trying to help with a starting point.

Oh and I must point this out...No matter how big or small your firearm collection is...you owe it to yourself and possibly others to become an expert with your weapons. Learn the safety checks ,know how to field strip and clean and lube them, shoot with accuracy, and know each weapons limits. Yes they are super cool and all, but at the end of the day, no matter why you may have them they are still weapons. I know most of the collectors/enthusiasts on here already know this, but for the record it needed to be said.

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

This deserved its own post... 206, you simply have the best collection that I have seen in a long while. Simply amazing!!! I am telling you this for sure, if I ever have to come to the Seattle area I'd let you know in advance, cause I'd love to shoot with you if you were available.

 

[vansoffthewa11]

i had a question....

i wanted to start off my collection but i have no idea what to get. can any one recommend me a good starting pistol that doesnt cost too much.

thanks in advance.

 

[dathbgboy]

Originally Posted by vansoffthewa11

i had a question....

i wanted to start off my collection but i have no idea what to get. can any one recommend me a good starting pistol that doesnt cost too much.

thanks in advance.

Depends on what ur budget is champ. Give some specifics about ur budget and what type of pistol ur looking to start out w/. Some will tell u to start out w/ a revolver since they're easier to clean than semi-autos, others will tell u it doesn't really matter. First thing is to set ur budget. After u do that, look for the style/brand/cal that fits ur liking most. After u've done that, research it for a while, sit on the thought, play around w/ different scenarios. Purchasing a firearm is a serious, dedicated investment just like purchasing a car or choosing the right college. 

Again, give us some background info and we can go from there.

And 206, I'd just like to say I hate u for have that DDM4

. That's the rifle I'm leaning towards gettin. I'm still in research mode right now tho so that could change but it's def the top contender

 

[ninjallamafromhell]

Washington (CNN) -- In another dramatic victory for firearm owners, the Supreme Court has ruled unconstitutional Chicago, Illinois', 28-year-old strict ban on handgun ownership, a potentially far-reaching case over the ability of state and local governments to enforce limits on weapons. A 5-4 conservative majority of justices on Monday reiterated its 2-year-old conclusion that the Constitution gives individuals equal or greater power than states on the issue of possession of certain firearms for self-protection. "It cannot be doubted that the right to bear arms was regarded as a substantive guarantee, not a prohibition that could be ignored so long as states legislated in an evenhanded manner," wrote Justice Samuel Alito. The court grounded that right in the due process section of the 14th Amendment. The justices, however, said local jurisdictions still retain the flexibility to preserve some "reasonable" gun-control measures currently in place nationwide. In dissent, Justice Stephen Breyer predicated far-reaching implications. "Incorporating the right," he wrote, "may change the law in many of the 50 states. Read in the majority's favor, the historical evidence" for the decision "is at most ambiguous." He was supported by Justices John Paul Stevens, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor. At issue was whether the constitutional "right of the people to keep and bear arms" applies to local gun control ordinances, or only to federal restrictions. The basic question had remained unanswered for decades, and gave the conservative majority on the high court another chance to allow Americans expanded weapon ownership rights. A key question was how far the court would apply competing parts of the 14th Amendment to preserve some "reasonable" gun control measures currently in place nationwide. The appeal was filed by a community activist in Chicago who sought a handgun for protection from gangs. Otis McDonald told CNN outside his South Side home that he wants a handgun to protect himself and his family from the violence in his neighborhood. "That's all I want, is just a fighting chance," he said. "Give me the opportunity to at least make somebody think about something before they come in my house on me." His application for a handgun permit was denied in a city with perhaps the toughest private weapons restrictions in the nation. The justices two years ago affirmed an individual's right to possess such weapons, tossing out restrictive laws in the federal enclave of the District of Columbia. The larger issue is one that has polarized judges, politicians and the public for decades: Do the Second Amendment's 27 words bestow gun ownership as an individual right or as a collective one -- aimed at the civic responsibilities of state militias and therefore subject, perhaps, to strict government regulation? And is that regulation limited to federal laws, or can it be applied to local communities? The amendment states: "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Gun rights groups applauded the decision. "Today marks a great moment in American history," said Wayne LaPierre of the National Rifle Association. "It is a vindication for the great majority of American citizens who have always believed the Second Amendment was an individual right and freedom worth defending." Some gun control advocates tried to put a positive spin on the opinion. "There is nothing in today's decision that should prevent any state or local government from successfully defending, maintaining, or passing, sensible, strong gun laws," said Paul Helmke, of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. The court majority refused to limit its 2008 District of Columbia ruling. That decision offered at least partial constitutional validation to citizens seeking the right to possess one of the most common types of firearms in their homes. The Chicago ruling now extends that right significantly. The Justice Department estimates that as many as 275 million guns are in the United States. In 2005, three-quarters of the 10,100 homicides by firearms nationwide were committed with handguns. Underpinning the legal basis for the court's jurisdiction in this appeal is a complex reading of the 14th Amendment, passed after the Civil War to ensure that all citizens -- including newly freed slaves -- were protected from state laws that might restrict their fundamental rights. One part ensures that states cannot deprive people of "life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." That has been commonly applied by federal courts when it comes to disputes over basic rights, so-called "ordered liberty" cases. Such cases include affirming the right to abortion, and to homosexual sex. But another rarely used provision also prevents states from depriving the "privileges or immunities" of all citizens. The specific question for the high court in the Chicago case was whether the "immunities and privileges" clause should be used to overturn the handgun ban. An 1873 ruling limited use of that provision when considering a variety of state laws. McDonald's lawyer, Alan Gura, promoted a new reading of the clause, in his lead role representing gun owners. The constitutional theories are dense, but some legal scholars had said that if the high court embraced this "privileges and immunities" clause, it could open up to fresh review a huge range of issues, like property rights and gay marriage. Courts have generally upheld other cities' restrictions on semiautomatic weapons and sawed-off shotguns. The conservative high court majority has in recent years upheld a California ban on assault rifles, similar to a federal ban that expired in 2004. Forty-four state constitutions protect their residents' right to keep weapons, according to a brief filed by 32 state attorneys general in support of the individual weapons owners in the current appeals. Some constitutional experts have noted the Bill of Rights had traditionally been applied by courts only to the federal government, not to local entities. It was not until the past half-century that the justices have viewed free speech, assembly, and the press -- among other rights -- as individual in nature, and fundamental to liberty, superseding in many cases the power of states. There have been limits. The high court has repeatedly refused to extend to states the 5th Amendment requirement that persons can be charged with serious crimes only by "indictment of a grand jury." The current case was McDonald v. Chicago (08-1521).

 

[keepzdasneakz]

Damn it sucks living in Cali...I can never have an AR collection like 206's. I BTW what pistol is that in one of your first pictures with the green grip? HK?

 

[vansoffthewa11]

Originally Posted by Dathbgboy

Originally Posted by vansoffthewa11

i had a question....

i wanted to start off my collection but i have no idea what to get. can any one recommend me a good starting pistol that doesnt cost too much.

thanks in advance.

Depends on what ur budget is champ. Give some specifics about ur budget and what type of pistol ur looking to start out w/. Some will tell u to start out w/ a revolver since they're easier to clean than semi-autos, others will tell u it doesn't really matter. First thing is to set ur budget. After u do that, look for the style/brand/cal that fits ur liking most. After u've done that, research it for a while, sit on the thought, play around w/ different scenarios. Purchasing a firearm is a serious, dedicated investment just like purchasing a car or choosing the right college. 

Again, give us some background info and we can go from there.

And 206, I'd just like to say I hate u for have that DDM4

. That's the rifle I'm leaning towards gettin. I'm still in research mode right now tho so that could change but it's def the top contender

i really dont know how much they cost but i would say my budget would be $300-$500.

background info, i live in MA

thanks again for the help Dathbgboy

 

[jd3772000]

Dang out of 10 pages I dont think I saw any M&P love. Well heres my 2. I carry my full size daily with light attached. When I go out in the evening mostly I carry both m&p's. I use the .40c as a BUG to my full size .40�if needed.� My fullsize�has fiber optic red front sight, plain black competition rear, both from novak, and Dan Burwell stippled sharkskin palmswell grip. I plan on getting all my metal parts NP3'ed. http://www.robarguns.com/np3.htm� and the rest of the grip stippled by Dan.

My compact is bone stock.



Raven light bearing holster. I say to anyone needing a good holster give them a try.











My next purchase will be a M&P 15-22 moe version. These are great plinkers!

Heres my video's of the streamlight tlr-1s and the pro tac 2L from streamlight.

 

[joe camel smooth]

dont know if theres any 'debating' going on in this thread.

but it would scare me if only gov't officials were allowed to bear arms. none of our founding fathers would agree with that.

glad to see gun owners here. i'm not one (currently) but i have loved shooting the few times i've done it and i'll get around to getting something when i have a moment to figure out the license stuff.

 

[jd3772000]

Heres the pro tac light video since I cant get it to post in my orginal post. Great light for edc carry.

 

[mr jordan04]

how hard/easy is it to legally get a gun in cali?

 

[jd3772000]

Originally Posted by Mr Jordan04

how hard/easy is it to legally get a gun in cali?

http://handgunlaw.us/states/california.pdf

 

[seattle206]

The M&P series are an excellent sidearm, with great ergonomics many LEO agencies are switching over to the smithys. I know that our washington state patrol are trading him their standard h&k usp .40s in favor of the m&p.

and darthbgboy, its a great time to buy right now. the market is oversaturated with black rifles and prices are hitting near rock bottom.

aimsurplus has the DDM4 at $1,095.00

http://www.aimsurplus.com...F1DD20017&groupid=11

 

[mr jordan04]

Originally Posted by jd3772000

Originally Posted by Mr Jordan04

how hard/easy is it to legally get a gun in cali?

http://handgunlaw.us/states/california.pdf

thank you sir

anybody have forst hand experience in cali?

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

This week I am looking to get my first shotgun. That will round out my firearms. I'm not a collector per se. I just need one of each: One long gun, one pistol, and one shotgun. Got the long gun and the pistol, now for the shotgun. Looking at the Benelli Super Nova Tactical, the Mossberg 930 SPX semi-auto, or a Remington  Model 870 Tactical.

BTW, I took my Mark 12 to the outdoor range last weekend. All I can say is that the Eotech 552 is very accurate even out to 100 yards with 1x magnification. It's too easy to get head shots at 300 feet while standing.

Anyway my choices for my shotgun. Need to pick quickly while wife is feeling generous

. Shotgun guys out of these which would you choose...just curious.


Benelli Super Nova Tactical

Mossberg 930 SPX Semi-Auto with Rails

...Also Known As The Poor Man's Benelli M4 Super 90. (I'm sorry I'm just not going to pay $1700 for a shotgun).

Remington Model 870 Desert Recon

 

[youneedthese]

I miss this thread.

I personally like the Moss. I like dark colors as well as compact firearms.

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Got my first shooting competition tomorrow morning. It's a pistol/rifle match. I will get smoked the first time out no doubt, plus the competitors are going to comprise of some special forces/commando (the guys who own the range are former members of THE most elite spec ops unit in the U.S.), and some other sharpshooters. I'm confident in my abilities, but I am also honest with myself...I am going to get DRAGGED!!!

I'll post results when I get back, hopefully I'll get there early enough to register.


youneedthese,

I am going to get the Remington 870 Tactical in Black, found it for $500 at $@*!'s. I'm sure I can find it a little cheaper online if I get it FFL'ed, but I don't feel like going through the FFL transfer dance.

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Finally got my Shotgun!!! Got the Mossberg 930 SPX Combat/Tactical Shotgun. Holds up to nine 12 Gauge Shells and is a semi-auto. It comes with Ghost ring sights and a Picattiny rail so I can mount optics on it. Optics on a shotgun you say...yes exactly it can shoot  12 gauge slugs pretty accurately out to a little past 100 yards and with a holo sight (Eotech, Aimpoint, Trijicon) its good for target acquisition in close quarters especially if you are trying to reduce collateral damage. Nothing beats a shotgun as a short range weapon, the most devastating small arm you can carry for close quarters/ home defense.

The Ammo I picked up was 00 Buckshot, 3" Saboted Slug, and 2 3/4" Foster Style Slugs. The Sabot Slug will go through a car door and keep on going out through the otherside. Can't wait to take her to the next shooting competition. I get to use it in the Kill House for room clearing, I'd rather that than my pistol. Anyway here are the pics.

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Here's a video of a dude shooting 8 rounds out of a 930 SPX in 1 and a half seconds. Gun is a beast, and it is as reliable as a pump shotgun.

 

[btk]

 

[royalty d]

Since this is a gun thread, CAN SOMEONE PLEASE PHOTOSHOP THIS DRACO in the OD Green COLORWAY PLEASEEE?????