NYK '14 offseason thread

What ninja turtle are you?

  • A. Raphael (the gritty one)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • B. Michaelangelo (silly one)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • C. Leonardo (the leader)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • D. Donatello (The smart one)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
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You mean a #1. If he ever wins it'll be playing alongside a great 2 way player and just letting him do his scoring thing.

Also amused he's reading his ig comments considering he's so 'built' for the pressure cooker.
 
JohnnyRedStorm said:
There'd be no issue with Melo if he had a real No. 2 option at his side.
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I think it would serve him better if he was the 2 option. He had a legit 2 option AND 3 option before with a veteran PG, and he came close but it still wasn't enough. He needs that. In fact, he needs a lot. People often confuse being a great scorer as being the team leader. Not so in all cases. Chauncey Billups did wonders for Melo's game. It's unfortunate that he didn't like being in NY. It was management's job to replace that with a younger vet. Kidd helped, but it was his last year in the league, what was that going to do realistically? Melo needs a veteran guard who leads and can tell him to shut up get to his spot and make the ball flow. People seem to have missed that common thread from Chauncey to Kidd. When you think about it, wouldn't those two PG's scream they are more of a leader than Melo? I mean, they qualify right? Being the fact that between the two of them, they have 5 finals appearances and 2 rings as opposed to Melo's none.
 
Y'all CLEARLY don't remember the Hornets team CP literally carried to the playoffs and beat the Lakers in a couple games. There are only two other players on the planet who could do what he did. You're crazy with that talk.

Dude always takes his team to the playoffs and always performs. It's insane for CP to have any kind of negative talk towards his play.
 
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Can't blame the one guy who's actually playing well. We have 4 big contracts on the team, Melo is living up to it, Chandler is currently injured, Amare is forever injured, and Bargnani is a role player at best. I don't like Melo as a person. He is selfish and egotistical. He did make us give up Gallo, Wilson, Mosgov, Lin, 2 first rounders, 2 second rounders and our amnesty (we had to take Billups bc of him). But those issues have all passed and his play isn't the reason the team is bad. The guys paid to be the 2nd (Amare), 3rd (Chandler), 4th (Barg), and 5th (JR) and 6th (Felton) best players are injured or playing horribly (besides Bargnani). Take away the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 6th player off any team and it'll be trash. Add in a coach who loves JR and Felton even though they hurt the team more than they contribute and it gets even worse.

This season isn't beyond repair, given the east is so terrible. Just have to get in and not face Miami rd1 to have a run imo. But to fix this team I think Woodson has to go, as much as Melo loves him, because he simply can't get the team to play hard and hasn't designed an offense or defense that works. JR, Felton, Melo, and Kenyon will hate it, but if they wanted him here so bad they should've played better. I still haven't forgotten the Layden or Isiah years we had, so this isn't a shock or even that upsetting to me. I never expect the Knicks to do anything any year. But at least there's some hope the team could make the playoffs and compete in it. I'm only upset because I don't like the way the team plays. I like teams that play defense, can get easy baskets in transition and make the other team work hard. Maybe a new coach can fix that. But if we lose tonight (which I kind of am half hoping so we get a new coach) and Herb Williams gets the job Friday, I think i have to take a break from watching this team for a while because I just don't enjoy it.
 
I never said Carmelo was a great leader. Either way, it's his team. He's the star. Why go to LA to be Kobe's sidekick, not win and then inherit a terrible team that will never love you like Kobe?

If Carmelo never wins in NY, he's a Pat Ewing all over again. He's still bigger than whatever he can be with the Lakers.

The thought of trading Carmelo makes zero sense. You won't get anything at all. Then, what big name star is coming here through free agency without Carmelo being here? When do we have a pick, 2018? Who are we drafting, Frederick Weiss Jr? Knicks are terrible at drafting. Shump and THJR are the best picks over the last 15 years.
 
Also i think in basketball, being a "leader" is overrated. Being good matters more. I can see it in a sport like football or hockey where motivation can inspire marginal effort and can prevent or make a game-changing play, but in basketball, there's enough trials that the better team usually wins. If you're good, and good when it matters, who cares how you "lead" the other guys on the team. I don't see Tim Duncan "leading" anybody, but he plays great and is quiet, so by virtue of doing that he leads the team. Michael Jordan was a jerk to everybody on his team, but his play lead the teams he was on to victory. These guys are paid to play basketball well, it's the coaches and management's fault if he's got players who don't feel motivated or compelled to play well.
 
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no one's gonna argue that this team will be more successful with melo as your No. 2 option. that obviously means you got a bigger star next to him. but this is the knicks and it might be more realistic to live with melo as your 1 and piece together the right group of guys around him.

i mean, think about it, what number 1 option can we pick up that's better than melo?

the problem with this team is its stagnant offense and voiceless defense.

without chandler out there you could tell there's no leadership on the defensive end.

on offense, you have woody's stand around and watch approach coupled with a lack of creators. you could get by playing whatever the hell woodson tells his guys to run if you have Chris Paul as your general, but with Felton and the bunch, you need an actual system.

i really think this team is just a new coach and a couple of pieces away.
 
cp3 makes his teammates better well naturally he should since hes a point guard.... he has accomplished the same as melo except that melo has made the WCF.... so how is cp3 any different or a better player than melo? they still have the same short comings in the playoffs...nobody is hating on cp3 but others are asking why cp3 gets a pass for not getting to the chip but melo gets all the negativity... when you play in new york there is no double standard
 
I wanna make it clear that I don't think it's Melo's "fault" we are struggling. not trynna blame him. He's playing great. He's just not contributing to the other players success. He's not mentally or physically involved in every play. Communicating with the team. Making sure guys are comfortable, confident and ready to go.

This team has taken on Melo's whole aura this year in terms of attitude. He's a smug dude. He's arrogant and passive. When things go bad he'll have the "oh well, I'm still good" mentality. I want the dude that goes home and loses sleep cause his team is trash.

I just dont see any light at the end of the tunnel.
 
Tim Duncan is DEFINITELY a leader. He leads by example. He comes to work and follows the program laid out by a great coach. When the best player on your team does that, everyone follows. The Spurs team embodies what Tim Duncan is as a player. They have a "do it the right way" identity.

Unfortunately, the Knicks dont have a great coach. So Melo has to be a different kind of leader.
 
imagine if Melo was drafted by Detroit? he'd have a ring and be a superior player. Denver messed him up.
 
Ballerific703 said:
I never said Carmelo was a great leader. Either way, it's his team. He's the star. Why go to LA to be Kobe's sidekick, not win and then inherit a terrible team that will never love you like Kobe?

If Carmelo never wins in NY, he's a Pat Ewing all over again. He's still bigger than whatever he can be with the Lakers.

The thought of trading Carmelo makes zero sense. You won't get anything at all. Then, what big name star is coming here through free agency without Carmelo being here? When do we have a pick, 2018? Who are we drafting, Frederick Weiss Jr? Knicks are terrible at drafting. Shump and THJR are the best picks over the last 15 years.
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To that I ask, what incentive does a star have to come here to play with someone who scores, but is also labeled a ball stopper? Riddle me this, what star has made it known that the wanted to come here AFTER Carmelo got here? He's not attracting anyone while he's here either. The sensible thing to do is to move him and start over.


amishpimp27 said:
Also i think in basketball, being a "leader" is overrated. Being good matters more. I can see it in a sport like football or hockey where motivation can inspire marginal effort and can prevent or make a game-changing play, but in basketball, there's enough trials that the better team usually wins. If you're good, and good when it matters, who cares how you "lead" the other guys on the team. I don't see Tim Duncan "leading" anybody, but he plays great and is quiet, so by virtue of doing that he leads the team. Michael Jordan was a jerk to everybody on his team, but his play lead the teams he was on to victory. These guys are paid to play basketball well, it's the coaches and management's fault if he's got players who don't feel motivated or compelled to play well.
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whut? :lol:. Being a leader is just as important as superstar skills, especially in basketball. Duncan has is well known to be a quiet leader. He doesn't do it in the media, but his hardware clearly displays that, while having a rotating supporting cast while he was winning. MJ was both, in practice and on the floor, he held his teammates accountable for their assignment. Saying being a leader in the NBA is overrated is an erroneous statement. Go back and look at the NBA champions for the last 20 years and point out a team without a definitive leader who won BESIDES the '04 Pistons, which was a total team effort. Larry Brown was clearly the leader. And the Knicks ruined him too....:smh:
 
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LosALMIGHTY said:
imagine if Melo was drafted by Detroit? he'd have a ring and be a superior player. Denver messed him up.
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I doubt that would've worked. I remember Larry Brown and Melo having issues during the Olympics, I'm sure it would've been worse with them together full time in Detroit. Personally, I think Bosh was the pick the Pistons should've made.
 
I think we all know the Knicks won't be doing anything substantial as long as Dolan is the owner. [emoji]128546[/emoji]
 
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