- 12,094
- 12
Its funny how people look at old religious traditions like the Greeks etc and see their stories as false and just mythical... as if people won't look atour views as silly.
Official Atheist/Non-Believer Appreciation Thread. Vol. Yes we exist
- 4,404
- 11
Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
^If it were up to the church we would still believe the earth IS FLAT....the scientific method FTW. Notice how the church goes to great lengths to thwart scientific discoveries that invalidate their beliefs.
Negro please....
b smooth 202
Banned
- 10,295
- 106
thats a myth...not that many people really believed that.
antonlavey
Banned
- 28,210
- 847
Because everything I said is a lie right?Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV
Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
^If it were up to the church we would still believe the earth IS FLAT....the scientific method FTW. Notice how the church goes to great lengths to thwart scientific discoveries that invalidate their beliefs.
Negro please....
NTer: Makes argument
Typical Huey P counter argument: Negro please
antonlavey
Banned
- 28,210
- 847
Not that many people believed the earth was flat in Europe at that time? This is news to me.
- 4,404
- 11
I could care less about "the church".
I told you I don't subscribe to any religion. That doesn't mean that I don't believe in GOD and spirituality.
Whats so hard to understand about that?
And you're poking fun at people telling fairy tales...then you use a bold faced myth about people believing the world to be flat.
The most spiritual of cultures were navigating the globe THOUSANDS of years before Columbus was a thought.
Their spiritual beliefs didn't stop them from advancing technologically, it actually enhanced their scientific achievement.
I told you I don't subscribe to any religion. That doesn't mean that I don't believe in GOD and spirituality.
Whats so hard to understand about that?
And you're poking fun at people telling fairy tales...then you use a bold faced myth about people believing the world to be flat.
The most spiritual of cultures were navigating the globe THOUSANDS of years before Columbus was a thought.
Their spiritual beliefs didn't stop them from advancing technologically, it actually enhanced their scientific achievement.
- 6,402
- 193
lol wut
antonlavey
Banned
- 28,210
- 847
EDIT
I made a terrible argument and I admit I was wrong, can't say the same about some people on this thread.
The discovery I mean to reference is Galileo contending the geocentric view of the universe.
b smooth 202
Banned
- 10,295
- 106
Look its not even about the church...my point is do you think the church believed the earth was flat when they were financing colonialism across the map? Theearliest science been known the earth was a sphere. They say illiterate people in Europe believed that.
antonlavey
Banned
- 28,210
- 847
TYPO......
Oooop I'm sorry guys, I didn't mean the discovery that the earth was FLAT.....it's the discovery Galileo made that the Earth was the middle of theUniverse.
[size=+2]Galileo vs the Catholic Church[/size]
[size=+2][size=+1]The 350 year old debate continues.[/size][/size]
In 1992 Pope John Paul II officially conceded that the Earth was not stationary - it revolvedaround the sun - but was this the end of the story??[size=+2][size=+1]The 350 year old debate continues.[/size][/size]
The disagreement between Galileo and the Catholic church began back in the 17th century when Galileo began offering observations thatsupported Copernicus's theory that the planet Earth was revolving around the sun rather then the sun revolving around the Earth.
The church maintained that the scriptures indicated that the Earth was stationary. Everyone knew the Earth was stationary, it was anaccepted fact. For thousands of years it had been accepted that the heavenly bodies all revolved around the stationary Earth.
And then Copernicus came along and published his book with these heretical ideas on astronomy that stated that the Earth was revolvingaround the sun. Copernicus was so fearful of the consequenses of his revolutionary theory that he waited until he was on his death bed before he published hisbook.
His ideas were so radical that the church didn't feel too threatened - that is until Galileo built his telescope and begandiscovering moons revolving around Jupiter and the different phases of Venus as it revolved around the sun. This finally got the inquisitor's attention -these observations were in direct contrast to the scriptures - something had to be done, the scriptures could not be wrong - these heretical theories had to bestopped.
They did this by summoning Galileo to a hearing and threatened to throw him into a dungeon and possibly torture him until he recanted.Galileo knew this was no idle threat since they had tortured and burnt Father Bruno at the stake along with many other heritics over the years.
Galileo's defense was that scriptures were not wrong, only the theologian's interpretations of the scriptures were wrong. Hisdefense did not prevail, so in the end, rather then suffer the consequenses, he recanted his theories and went into house arrest knowing that the truth wouldsomeday be known.
The inquistors had won for the time being - the Earth would remain stationary with the sun and other planets revolving around theEarth. Although the church had long since accepted the Copernican system it wasn't until 1992 that Pope John Paul 11 officially apologized and set therecord straight. In his statement he used Gailieo's defense saying that the scriptures were not wrong they were just mistakenly interpreted by thetheologians. The Earth was not stationary after all. But was it??
Could it be that both the theologians and Galileo were right and indeed it was the interpretaions that were faulty?? How could thatbe?? How could they both possibly right?? How could the Earth be both moving and stationary at the same time. We know from obsevation that the Earth is moving- relative to the other solar bodies - so how could it be stationary too.
For that we have to move forward in time a couple of hundred years to when Michelson and Morley carried out their famous experiments toshow that the Earth was indeed moving - not only relative to other bodies but also through the aether, through space itself.
Their experiment was a complete failure they could find no evidence that the Earth was moving at all. Something was radically wrong.Michelson tried experiment after experiment for the rest of his life and could find no evidence that the Earth was moving relative to an aether or tospace.
This sent the physicists into a tizzy, Michelson thought his experiments were all failures - what was he doing wrong?? How could hedetect the Earth's motion. Other scientists also tried various experiments and all failed. Or did they??
Lorentz came up with the adhoc explanation that, as the Earth sailed through the heavens it contracted in the direction it was goingjust enough to compensate for its forward motion. In fact everything contracted just enough so the Earth's motion could never be detected. Einstein alsoused this contraction concept although he discarded the aether. Nature had played a cruel trick on us, we could never know which direction we wereheaded.
However, just maybe - the Earth is stationary, relative to space alone. Then both Galileo and the theologians would be right. The Earthmoves relative to other bodies but it is stationary relative to space itself. If the results of Michelson & Morley's experiments were taken at facevalue - they had discovered that bodies do not move relative to space itself. A revolutionary discovery! Their experiments would be a prodigious step towards abetter understanding of the universe.
When considering space alone, space is a single indivisible entity from one end of the universe to the other. A body cannot pass fromone part of space to another part of space because it is all one, there is absolutely no difference in space no matter where you go.
All motion is relative, bodies only move relative to other bodies. When there are no bodies or references such as in empty space, thebody is stationary. When a body is relative to absolute space it is motionless. There is no possible way to detect the motion of a body in space without usingsome other reference to discern the motion. Nothing moves relative to space itself. The Earth, relative to space, is stationary!
So far as I know - no scientists have accepted the results of the M/M experiment, they all went with the Lorentz, Fitzgerald, Einsteincontraction concept instead. But it is ironic that after all this time - just maybe, both Galileo and the church were right in a certain sense - the Earth isstationary - relative to absolute space - while it moves - relative to other bodies. It may take a while before scientists will accept this simple concept buteventually the truth will prevail.
- 4,404
- 11
Eurocentricity FTL
I don't understand y'all brothers sometimes.
Brainwashed to the highest degree.
Open your minds a little.
I don't understand y'all brothers sometimes.
Brainwashed to the highest degree.
Open your minds a little.
- 6,402
- 193
Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV
Eurocentricity FTL
I don't understand y'all brothers sometimes.
Brainwashed to the highest degree.
Open your minds a little.
Oh sweet irony.
antonlavey
Banned
- 28,210
- 847
Can you elaborate on this?
And does this apply today......do you really think spiritual beliefs promote scientific discovery?
Eg. Evolution, Stem cell research
antonlavey
Banned
- 28,210
- 847
Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV
Eurocentricity FTL
I don't understand y'all brothers sometimes.
Brainwashed to the highest degree.
Open your minds a little.
I'm sorry unfortunately i don't know much about these other cultures you speak of. I can only argue based on what is relevant and dominanttoday...which just so happens to be the Judeo-Christian religion/culture. If I were an atheist in ancient Egypt I would probably take a different approach tomy arguments.
- 4,404
- 11
[h1]Scientists bridging the spirituality gap[/h1]
Andrew Newberg, director of the University of Pennsyvania's Center for Spirituality and the Mind, sheds light on the mind-body connection in the movie"What the Bleep Do We Know."
By Joann Loviglio
updated 2:35 p.m. ET, Sat., Jan. 27, 2007
PHILADELPHIA - Religion and science can combine to create some thorny questions: Does God exist outside thehuman mind, or is God a creation of our brains? Why do we have faith in things that we cannot prove, whether it's the afterlife or UFOs?
The new Center for Spirituality and theMind at the University of Pennsylvania is using brain imaging technology to examine such questions, and to investigate how spiritual and secular beliefsaffect our health and behavior.
"Very few are looking at spirituality from a neurological side, from the brain-mind side," said Dr.Andrew Newberg, director of the center.
Story continues below ↓
advertisement | your ad here
http://
A doctor of nuclear medicine and an assistant professor at Penn, Newberg also has co-written three books onthe science-spirituality relationship. He's also played a role in "What the Bleep Do WeKnow," a movie that blends quantum physics and new-age neuroscience.
Newberg's center is not a bricks-and-mortar structure but a multidisciplinary team of Penn researchersexploring the relationship between the brain and spirituality from biological, psychological, social and ideological viewpoints. Founded last April, it isbringing together some 20 experts from fields including medicine, pastoral care, religious studies, social work and bioethics.
"The brain is a believing machine because it has to be," Newberg said. "Beliefs affect everypart of our lives. They make us who we are. They are the essence of our being."
Spirituality and beliefdon't have to equate to religious faith, Newberg said. The feelings of enlightenment and well-being some derive from religion can come toothers through from artistic expression, nonreligious meditation, watching a beautiful sunset or listening to stirring music.
"Atheists have belief systems, too," Newberg said.
Testing the hypotheses
How does the center test the relationship between the mind and spirituality?
In one study, Newberg and colleagues used imaging technology to look at the brains of Pentecostal Christiansspeaking in tongues - known scientifically as glossolalia - then looked at their brains when they were singing gospel music. They found that those practicingglossolalia showed decreased activity in the brain's language center, compared with the singing group.
The imaging results are suggestive of people's description that they do not have control of their ownspeech when speaking in tongues. Newberg said scientists believe that speech is taken over by another part of the brain during glossolalia, but did not find itduring the study.
Other recent studies looked at the brains of Tibetan Buddhists inmeditation and Franciscan nuns in prayer, then compared the results to their baseline brain activity levels.
Among other changes, both groups showeddecreased activity in the parts of the brain that have to do with sense of self and spatial orientation - which suggests the description of oneness with God,of transcendence sometimes experienced in meditation or prayer.
Prayer and meditation also increase levelsof dopamine, often referred to as the brain's pleasure hormone.
"The mind and the body are the flipside of the same coin," said Dr. Daniel Monti, head of Thomas Jefferson University Hospital's integrated medicine center. "Now we know some ofthe mechanisms by which that occurs, and it's becoming better and better understood."
Medicine and meditation
The integrated medicine center teaches patients with cancer, chronic pain and other ailments to work things like meditation and properdiet into their conventional therapy, Monti said. Such thinking seemed "fringy" to many people a decade ago, but it is becoming widely accepted bythe medical community and patients, he said.
"Now there's the recognition that a truly effective treatment plan is not just giving a pill,"he said. "We need to look at how to help a person adjust to a different lifestyle in addition to taking a pill."
Not many imaging studies have yet been done that look at changes in the brain's blood flow because technology has only within thepast decade become sophisticated enough to study the brain in this way, Newberg said. An increase in blood flow to certain parts of the brain means increasedactivity in those areas.
Newberg is currently studying how the brains of novice yoga practitioners change as they become more adept,and whether meditation can improve cognitive impairment in people with mild dementia or early Alzheimer's disease.
"The sky's the limit as far as the things we can study," he said.
Andrew Newberg, director of the University of Pennsyvania's Center for Spirituality and the Mind, sheds light on the mind-body connection in the movie"What the Bleep Do We Know."
By Joann Loviglio
updated 2:35 p.m. ET, Sat., Jan. 27, 2007
PHILADELPHIA - Religion and science can combine to create some thorny questions: Does God exist outside thehuman mind, or is God a creation of our brains? Why do we have faith in things that we cannot prove, whether it's the afterlife or UFOs?
The new Center for Spirituality and theMind at the University of Pennsylvania is using brain imaging technology to examine such questions, and to investigate how spiritual and secular beliefsaffect our health and behavior.
"Very few are looking at spirituality from a neurological side, from the brain-mind side," said Dr.Andrew Newberg, director of the center.
Story continues below ↓
advertisement | your ad here
http://
A doctor of nuclear medicine and an assistant professor at Penn, Newberg also has co-written three books onthe science-spirituality relationship. He's also played a role in "What the Bleep Do WeKnow," a movie that blends quantum physics and new-age neuroscience.
Newberg's center is not a bricks-and-mortar structure but a multidisciplinary team of Penn researchersexploring the relationship between the brain and spirituality from biological, psychological, social and ideological viewpoints. Founded last April, it isbringing together some 20 experts from fields including medicine, pastoral care, religious studies, social work and bioethics.
"The brain is a believing machine because it has to be," Newberg said. "Beliefs affect everypart of our lives. They make us who we are. They are the essence of our being."
Spirituality and beliefdon't have to equate to religious faith, Newberg said. The feelings of enlightenment and well-being some derive from religion can come toothers through from artistic expression, nonreligious meditation, watching a beautiful sunset or listening to stirring music.
"Atheists have belief systems, too," Newberg said.
Testing the hypotheses
How does the center test the relationship between the mind and spirituality?
In one study, Newberg and colleagues used imaging technology to look at the brains of Pentecostal Christiansspeaking in tongues - known scientifically as glossolalia - then looked at their brains when they were singing gospel music. They found that those practicingglossolalia showed decreased activity in the brain's language center, compared with the singing group.
The imaging results are suggestive of people's description that they do not have control of their ownspeech when speaking in tongues. Newberg said scientists believe that speech is taken over by another part of the brain during glossolalia, but did not find itduring the study.
Other recent studies looked at the brains of Tibetan Buddhists inmeditation and Franciscan nuns in prayer, then compared the results to their baseline brain activity levels.
Among other changes, both groups showeddecreased activity in the parts of the brain that have to do with sense of self and spatial orientation - which suggests the description of oneness with God,of transcendence sometimes experienced in meditation or prayer.
Prayer and meditation also increase levelsof dopamine, often referred to as the brain's pleasure hormone.
"The mind and the body are the flipside of the same coin," said Dr. Daniel Monti, head of Thomas Jefferson University Hospital's integrated medicine center. "Now we know some ofthe mechanisms by which that occurs, and it's becoming better and better understood."
Medicine and meditation
The integrated medicine center teaches patients with cancer, chronic pain and other ailments to work things like meditation and properdiet into their conventional therapy, Monti said. Such thinking seemed "fringy" to many people a decade ago, but it is becoming widely accepted bythe medical community and patients, he said.
"Now there's the recognition that a truly effective treatment plan is not just giving a pill,"he said. "We need to look at how to help a person adjust to a different lifestyle in addition to taking a pill."
Not many imaging studies have yet been done that look at changes in the brain's blood flow because technology has only within thepast decade become sophisticated enough to study the brain in this way, Newberg said. An increase in blood flow to certain parts of the brain means increasedactivity in those areas.
Newberg is currently studying how the brains of novice yoga practitioners change as they become more adept,and whether meditation can improve cognitive impairment in people with mild dementia or early Alzheimer's disease.
"The sky's the limit as far as the things we can study," he said.
antonlavey
Banned
- 28,210
- 847
Yo Huey, you stay coming at people with the open your eyes and yall are brainwashed. But the way you present some of your arguments doesn't makeunderstanding any easier for people.
"You're brainwashed", "open your eyes" and "negro please" and posting random pics without explanation is not going to changethose you have deemed ignorant. Real talk.
Good example tho^^^^....especially on faith-based medicine. These phenomena, like the placeboeffect can probably be explained by neurophysiological mechanisms. Faith and healing isn't limited to faith in God or anything supernatural. It can befaith in anything including your doctor. Anything that promotes a positive state of mind (hope, faith, spirituality, family, love), reduces stress and improveshealing and recovery.
"You're brainwashed", "open your eyes" and "negro please" and posting random pics without explanation is not going to changethose you have deemed ignorant. Real talk.
Good example tho^^^^....especially on faith-based medicine. These phenomena, like the placeboeffect can probably be explained by neurophysiological mechanisms. Faith and healing isn't limited to faith in God or anything supernatural. It can befaith in anything including your doctor. Anything that promotes a positive state of mind (hope, faith, spirituality, family, love), reduces stress and improveshealing and recovery.
- 33,412
- 12,545
- 4,404
- 11
Yo....why you always resort to personal attacks on me in every thread.
I posted a bunch of thought provoking things in this thread and you responded with a Camron GIF. Now you want to tell me to expand on my arguments and stopposting random pics?
Are you serious B?
Stop criticizing the way I post and respond to the topic at hand.
You do this every time. Try to turn things into a personal back and forth and make me look the bad guy.
I posted an Olmec head, not a random stoneface. It was in response to your assertion that the world was flat, when Africans had already circumnavigated theworld many times over.
Stop being so myopic in your thinking and using defensive everytime you see me post. Give me a chance to present my case and deal with the facts at hhandinstead of your personal beefs with me.
I just want to clear that air before we continue...
I posted a bunch of thought provoking things in this thread and you responded with a Camron GIF. Now you want to tell me to expand on my arguments and stopposting random pics?
Are you serious B?
Stop criticizing the way I post and respond to the topic at hand.
You do this every time. Try to turn things into a personal back and forth and make me look the bad guy.
I posted an Olmec head, not a random stoneface. It was in response to your assertion that the world was flat, when Africans had already circumnavigated theworld many times over.
Stop being so myopic in your thinking and using defensive everytime you see me post. Give me a chance to present my case and deal with the facts at hhandinstead of your personal beefs with me.
I just want to clear that air before we continue...
- 4,404
- 11
And right on cue....here comes your butt buddy.
With the lame personal attacks.
Carry on y'all...
I know how this game ends.
It never fails
With the lame personal attacks.
Carry on y'all...
I know how this game ends.
It never fails
- 33,412
- 12,545
"personal cheap attacks"?
antonlavey
Banned
- 28,210
- 847
First off I wasn't attacking you......I commended the example you posted. You should do that more often and refrain from name calling and "open youreyes" as a rebuttal.
You posted the Olmec head with no explanation of why you posted it...so I assumed it was a stoneface. I already admitted I used a bad example for the world isflat argument. I meant to use the Gallileo vs. The Catholic Church argument.
- 4,404
- 11
- 6,402
- 193
Arguing with the insane is itself insane, I'm out.
Just remember the golden rule of open-mindedness:
You're only open-minded as long as you're open-minded like everyone else
Just remember the golden rule of open-mindedness:
You're only open-minded as long as you're open-minded like everyone else
antonlavey
Banned
- 28,210
- 847
^^^Gay jokes? Really guy, I know you're better than that. I know you're better than that
. Well that's my cue to move along.
- 645
- 10
At least Anton tries to debate with you. His friend though
