- Sep 29, 2008
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They are gonna complicate the **** out of the power levels/ SSJ and make everyone weaker so BEgeTA can look a bit stronger and flourish 
Official DragonBall Z Thread. R.I.P Akira Toriyama. You will be missed
antidope
Supporter
- Jan 2, 2012
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Honestly if Vegeta doesn't kill Frieza then you might as well never let him get shine. He deserves this one, anyone else killing Frieza cheapens the movie.
Top Boy
formerly jay patt
- Feb 5, 2013
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Straight from Toriyama:
Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.
Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.
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antidope
Supporter
- Jan 2, 2012
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There go the SSJ3 Vegeta dreams. Super Saiyan 2 hardly fits that description, Gohan Goku and Vegeta have all had lengthy fights in Super Saiyan 2 and were not quickly fatigued
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- Apr 4, 2008
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agreed
silverbackhoney
Banned
- Dec 14, 2014
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I don't see the purpose of this. He's better off just making something new instead of changing everything about DBZ.
- Oct 10, 2013
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HENCE MY EVERYTHING DBZ IS INCONSISTENT STATEMENT 
- Feb 18, 2013
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Exactly which is why I just go along with whatever Toriyama says writes in DBZ even if I disagree or don't like itHENCE MY EVERYTHING DBZ IS INCONSISTENT STATEMENT
- Apr 27, 2014
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Makes complete sense to me. This is completely consistent with portrayals
Or did ya'll forget when SSJ1 Goku and Gohan were throwing hands with Cell when an ascended Trunks and Vegeta couldn't?
The potential for growth with base form and SSJ1 is clearly limitless. SSJ2 didn't hack it at all during the Buu saga against even the weakest forms of Buu. SSJ3 is literally useless as a transformation as the only character who's used it for longer than 5 minutes was dead.
Was never a fan of all that extra **** anyway. Clip SSJG too and we straight
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- Apr 30, 2010
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Smh at how it looks like they do Gohan. Makes no sense. Build him up for nothing.
- Sep 24, 2013
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I still think they're changing too much.
Shoulda just kept SS3 the limit.Freiza, Whis, and Beerus can still look strong against 2-4 SSJ3s. (Goku, Gotenks, Gohan and Vegeta maybe)
Honestly? I have to agree, and think that Toriyama needs to quit and let this series die. It's getting to be somehwat ridiculous.
Eh, I guess. Thing is they were always presented as truly ascended states from the original, and after they were gained it really just looked like no one ever took the time to master them, as Goku and Gohan did with the first state before the Cell Games. With SS3 at the very least this is absolutely true, as it clearly took too much effort for Goku to retain that form, making it impractical for long-term fighting. Even GT took the time to note how much it took out of him. (And GT was just trash
) Assuming that there are more films after this however, i'll be sad to not see any of the other transformations anymore.EDIT: @Ace93 Legend of Goku 2 though
Such a MASSIVE improvement over the first one, and that bonus material was great.
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- Oct 10, 2013
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well according to the past info ss3 just multiplies whatever base strength hes currently at. no matter what ss3 should be a step up. now all that's out the window
- Sep 29, 2008
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Meh, I can understand why they are trying to minimize all these forms/level ups..
It could make a better storyline in the future with future stronger enemies, if they gonna make a series in the end
We can't just go SSJ 1,2,3,God, god 2, god 3, SUPER God, etc....it will all sound ridiculous ... yet I bet Superman fans will still say he's stronger than Goku
It could make a better storyline in the future with future stronger enemies, if they gonna make a series in the end
We can't just go SSJ 1,2,3,God, god 2, god 3, SUPER God, etc....it will all sound ridiculous ... yet I bet Superman fans will still say he's stronger than Goku
antidope
Supporter
- Jan 2, 2012
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My whole thing is while upping base power is clearly the most important thing when it comes to getting stronger and going Super Saiyan is the only form of it that he mastered and provides a power jump with no energy drain, in a situation where he is clearly over matched the logical option would be to use the others, don't see how they can argue that or write around it.
Goku is getting the hands from Frieza? What part of him would not decide to go Super Saiyan 3 and accept the Power jump that SSJ3 provides which is 8 times what regular Super Saiyan is, which is 400 times base power and try and end a fight quickly before the fatigue kicks in. There's no way that he wouldn't do that it just defies all logic.
Goku wouldn't just up and stop using them. It wouldn't make sense to.
Goku is getting the hands from Frieza? What part of him would not decide to go Super Saiyan 3 and accept the Power jump that SSJ3 provides which is 8 times what regular Super Saiyan is, which is 400 times base power and try and end a fight quickly before the fatigue kicks in. There's no way that he wouldn't do that it just defies all logic.
Goku wouldn't just up and stop using them. It wouldn't make sense to.
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- Sep 29, 2008
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There's gotta be a way better explanation is to why they don't transform, unless somebody prevents them from transforming 
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Mr Dink
formerly foamposite xi
- Oct 8, 2012
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Super Saiyan God is a dumb form. A pure hearted Saiyan? Really? Saiyans are built to be warriors who lust for power and fighting and you have to be pure hearted to achieve it? FOH.
- Oct 10, 2013
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What do you guys want explained? It's dbz. SS God was garbage but ok. Mystic gohan was also garbage, but ok. fusion is garbage, but ok. It's dbz
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- Jan 9, 2010
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Honestly it's a retcon .Toriyama realized he wrote Dragon ball z into a corner .If you look at how the series went after Freiza saga it was clear that the main protagonist is Gohan .Its why majority of the andriod cell saga arc revolved around Gohan ,Trunks ,Krillin,Vegeta and Piccolo
He never intended on Goku retaining his role as protagonist .Its why he went to extreme lengths to kill him .
Dbz at its heart is a martial arts adventure manga .When you have a hero who dwarfs the rest of the cast so much it literally hurts the pacing and plots it' kills the story . Honestly it's smart for him to bring Goku back to his roots and with that the series .It gives him room to expand his characters and flesh out the universe more .
He never intended on Goku retaining his role as protagonist .Its why he went to extreme lengths to kill him .
Dbz at its heart is a martial arts adventure manga .When you have a hero who dwarfs the rest of the cast so much it literally hurts the pacing and plots it' kills the story . Honestly it's smart for him to bring Goku back to his roots and with that the series .It gives him room to expand his characters and flesh out the universe more .
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- Sep 29, 2008
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What do you guys want explained? It's dbz. SS God was garbage but ok. Mystic gohan was also garbage, but ok. fusion is garbage, but ok. It's dbz
So, we can't have a simple discussion about DBZ
... because " its dbz " ?
but ok.
- Oct 10, 2013
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You're asking for a logical answer in an illogical world. People get stronger just because here. Sayins develop powers as needed within the story and movies. The literal answer to your question is "because" as stated by the creator himself. Discuss away
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- Sep 29, 2008
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The only thing I ask is to why they don't transform to SSJ in this movie. Must be referring to the other dudes, but ok.
here's another video with new footage
Still no signs of SSJ Goku yet Gohan transforms.. This video actually doesn't seem to be a vegeta centric-movie IMO.. maybe Goku fights freiza first then Vegeta transform to god form later on
here's another video with new footage
Still no signs of SSJ Goku yet Gohan transforms.. This video actually doesn't seem to be a vegeta centric-movie IMO.. maybe Goku fights freiza first then Vegeta transform to god form later on
Top Boy
formerly jay patt
- Feb 5, 2013
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Still doesn't make sense. Goku has perfected his Super Saiyan transformation.. That's a free x50 power multiplier that he refuses to use. Why?
I think BC is right, the older we've gotten the more this series makes less sense (conveniently overlooked when we were younger).
Might as well not even fight it anymore, just let Toriyama write and accept whatever, cause logic seems to be out the window.
I think BC is right, the older we've gotten the more this series makes less sense (conveniently overlooked when we were younger).
Might as well not even fight it anymore, just let Toriyama write and accept whatever, cause logic seems to be out the window.
- Mar 19, 2013
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Pretty much ^
- May 14, 2013
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I mean there could be a simple answer. AT said in that interview that we would probably not see Goku go past super Saiyan. Well maybe in between the time of that interview and the creation of this movie he simply changed his mind and made it so that mastering the base form is enough to bring out transformation level strength. For all we know it could be a mystic Gohan type of deal. Both Vegeta and goku are assumed to be training with bills/whis. Doesn't seem too outrageous to me that their training with literally the strongest beings in the universe has made them strong enough to the point where even the super saiyan form is not needed. It happened with Gohan, no reason training with Gods/God Ki wouldn't allow them to achieve something like that. An even simpler answer is that a 2 minute trailer doesn't come close to showing us what happens in the battle. For all we know they both turn super sayain. Is it just me but did I just hear that classic "you've gone too far and now you've awakened a level of power I didn't even know I had" goku scream at the end when they made it seem like freiza blew up the earth? I'm gonna call it now, Goku is gonna deal the finishing blow to freiza with some sort of power up that we don't know about yet, or maybe has something to do with Super Saiyan God?
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- May 14, 2013
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Also kind of looks like what I said earlier in this thread. Although whis and bills are in the movie, it doesn't look like they are going to play an active roll in this fight, otherwise freiza would be a non issue. Looks like they've taken the king kai, kabitokai/elder kai roll and watch and give advice from a far. More than likely knowing his attitude bills doesn't want to be bothered by it and tells them to handle it. Probably going to be mildly surprised by Freizas strength in the process.
