Official Mayweather vs. Mosley Thread: Legacy Defining

Ricardo Lopez
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Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

So far Floyd hasnt even been knocked down 1 time in 41 fights 
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He was knocked down by Judah, but the referee didn't score it. I personally don't see anyone beating Floyd, he is in a class all by himself.
 
I def agree that now is his chance to show and prove and to silence criticism but looking at his career realistically, I'm really wondering if the "Artful Dodger" label is justified based on prospective fights that he ducked or is the notoriously fickle boxing media just thirst to find something to hang over his head to balance his athletic greatness.

I think it's more of a case that he claims to be the greatest so now he has to show and prove, than he ducks fights.

If another fighter took the same fights as Floyd and came out with Victories, the consensus would be that he fights everyone. Chico, JLC, Zab, DLH, Shane, Ricky, JMM and a laundry list of tough veterans. He has a solid resume based on his era with another 3 year window to add to it. The only fight he really NEEDS is the Pacquiao fight. Punisher would be the icing on the cake and really put him in rarified air.

I'd personally like to see him fight Berto, Pac, Mac and Pun but that's just the boxing fan in me. He really only needs the Pac fight to truly be called the best fighter of his generation. If he beats Paul, then we can start talking about top 3/4 Welters of all time.
 
Originally Posted by franchise3

I think Manny is doomed if he does, and doomed if he doesn't.

As of right now, there's a lot of, 'If he's clean, then why doesn't he take the test' cloud that people are putting over him. Which is a reasonable question.

If he agrees to the testing (doubtful considering the egos of Pac and his whole camp not wanting to succumb to Floyd's 'demands'), but if he does, and loses, which is a good possibility, people are going to look at his loss, coupled with the testing, and the, 'See, this is what happens when he's not on anything' statements will come out.

Either way, Manny should just man up and take the tests, pocket the 30-50M, and if he wins, not grant a rematch and just retire, leaving Floyd with that -1 on his record. Perfect way to go out.
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Oh I never considered that before. 
 
He broke his hand and doubled over in pain for the only called knockdown in his career, it wasn't from a hit and the Zab knockout wasn't called a knockdown. Evenhough it should have been it was a situation wher his glove grazed the canvas off of a clan shot early in the fight. I was talking about a legitimate knockdown.
 
Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

I'd personally like to see him fight Berto, Pac, Mac and Pun but that's just the boxing fan in me. He really only needs the Pac fight to truly be called the best fighter of his generation. If he beats Paul, then we can start talking about top 3/4 Welters of all time.
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Armstrong
Walker
Hearns
Gavilan
Napoles
Burley
Griffith
Walcott


I don't see him bumping out anybody from this list.

MAYBE top 15.
more likely top 20.
 
Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

I'm starting to realize that a lot of the perception that Floyd ducks fights is based on the fact that dude is a smart, brash Black Boxer at the top of his game, takes his business into his own hands and has been tremendously successful. In a lot of ways he is snubbing everyone in the traditional boxing infrastructure. He is his own boss and has taken promotion of his events to a new level without the help of the traditional gatekeepers of the sport.

The only fighter I can say that he legitimately "ducked" was Magarito and that's not because he was scared or that he would have lost (as we can see from the Shane fight he wouldve gotten destoyed) but because it was a smart business move. Floyd is building a PPV brand and look at how succesful that has been.

People say he should have fought Shane 5 years ago...but let's think back to 2005. Floyd didnt even get his first PPV event until the second half of that year. Shane was the big dog headlining fights with Nando and decling Floyd the oppurtunty at the big stage. May had a chip on his shoulder at that time and was coming out singing at whoever HBO put in front of him...Chop chop, Sharmba, Ndou. When he fought those guys they said he should be fighting Marquez, when he dominated Marquez...he was too big and was ducking Shane. When he fought Shane, Shane was too old.

Arum has never wanted to put Cotto in the ring with Floyd. That fight has never really been in serious negotiations, so Im trying to understand where this ducking title had come from. Granted Floyd hasn't gone out of his way to make fights with Punisher when he was at 145 and he turned down 8 mil for a Maragrito fight...but don't all boxer have to snub some fights during their career?

Is the perception that Floyd ducks fights based more on the fact that he rubs the media the wrong way, that he handles his own biz without getting fleeced for millions, that he's a defensive fighter and doesn't take many risks in the ring or that he is proving to be on of the very few boxing success stories?

Boxing is built on drama, rivalry and inevitable failure. So far Floyd hasnt even been knocked down 1 time in 41 fights, no dramaics because he has been so much better than his competition..Ali got old and battered, Sugar Ray almost lost his eye and millions on a coke habit, Iron Mike is a tragic opera. Do people just need to see Floyd humbled in and out of the ring before they really stand up and cheer like they did when he got rocked in round 2, Saturday night?

Abrasive and boisterous, I understand. Overly cautious boxing style , I understand...but can someone point out all of these ducking incidents? Who has he ducked that called him out?
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I gotta disagree with you there man, at least from my stand point.  He's the first dude I wanna see succeed and thrive because he's always had too much talent not to be at the top and fight the best.  I could care less what color he is.

The Margarito thing is pretty much a moot point now anyways because now he looks like the smarter man.  But think about it, back then Margarito had one loss from his early days when he was around 18 or 19 and he was knocking people out like crazy.  He had just destroyed Cintron who people thought would be a force at 147 and above.  There was no blueprint to beating him then.  I don't think he made a smart business move turning down the $8 million to fight him, I think he didn't want to see that 0 go or put it at risk.  Imagine him taking that fight and picking Margarito apart, would that not have pushed his PPV brand even more?  I don't blame him for taking the Judah fight because people wanted to see that fight badly.  I don't blame him for taking the Baldomir fight because he had the Ring and 3 alphabet belts.  I just think he should have tried harder to make fights with the top dogs.  After the Mosley fight, Cotto/Arum mentioned Floyd as a fight but they wanted to do the Mexican/PR thing with Margs.

I really don't remember anyone saying he should have fought Marquez until Marquez called him out after the Diaz fight.  Although I agree with you that he has fought whoever has called him out, it's just the fact that he hasn't gone out there and fought the best at 147.  Look at how he handled dudes at 130 and 135.  He was fighting the best down there and destroying them.  No one can question that.  I think the perception is that he claims to be the greatest, he claims to be #1 well then go out there and prove it.  You're not gonna beat Hatton at 147 and Marquez jumping up from 135 and call yourself the best welterweight in the world you know?

I don't wanna see him humbled inside or outside the ring, I want to see him in there with the best and see how he handles it.  He went in there with Mosley who was in fantastic shape and beat his %%! for 11 out of 12 rounds.  I can't take anything away from that.  This "Mosley is old" bull needs to be killed.

And I believe he's been knocked down once against Carlos Hernandez but it was an iffy call.

Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

I bet the same people who dont want the testing for Manny are the same people who villified Major League baseball for not implementing a stricter testing policy sooner than it actually did.
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Exactly.

Originally Posted by Scott Frost

Hats off to Pretty Boy Floyd, hopefully he just cleans house before he thinks of hanging them up.
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Hopefully man hopefully.
 
It must be demoralizing to land haymakers in the second round only to see your opponent smiling back at you afterwards. 
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I didn't have a rooting interest either way, but that was as thorough a beating as I've seen.  If they gave points for wanting to tap gloves Mosley mighta had a shot, but other then that, after I saw dude giggling in the second round after getting pounded on, I was pretty sure who the winner was about to be. 
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That undercard where guy got knocked down after 12 seconds, and yet won the fight less then a minute later was the biggest letdown I ever seen.  I didn't have time to sit on my couch before that fight was over.  Come on man. 
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Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

He broke his hand and doubled over in pain for the only called knockdown in his career, it wasn't from a hit and the Zab knockout wasn't called a knockdown. Evenhough it should have been it was a situation wher his glove grazed the canvas off of a clan shot early in the fight. I was talking about a legitimate knockdown.
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I worded my statement wrong. He was knocked down once in his carrer against Hernandez when his glove touched the canvas.  Against Zab, he was hit flush and hit canvas, but it was ruled a slipped.
 
Originally Posted by amel223

Originally Posted by franchise3

I think Manny is doomed if he does, and doomed if he doesn't.

As of right now, there's a lot of, 'If he's clean, then why doesn't he take the test' cloud that people are putting over him. Which is a reasonable question.

If he agrees to the testing (doubtful considering the egos of Pac and his whole camp not wanting to succumb to Floyd's 'demands'), but if he does, and loses, which is a good possibility, people are going to look at his loss, coupled with the testing, and the, 'See, this is what happens when he's not on anything' statements will come out.

Either way, Manny should just man up and take the tests, pocket the 30-50M, and if he wins, not grant a rematch and just retire, leaving Floyd with that -1 on his record. Perfect way to go out.
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Oh I never considered that before. 
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That would depend on how bad he looks in a loss. If they go toe to toe and it is a close fight then no1 will say "Thats what happens when hes not on steroids" (well some stan will). But if Mayweather makes him look like Shane out there then I would be inclined myself to believe that yes he was using something. Just for the sheer fact that he Manhandles fighters not by ring presence or anything technical but because he flat out doesnt get tired and throws punches non-stop. Keeping in mind that maybe Mayweather is really just that good that he could manhandle any1 in that division.

At this point, I am leaning towards yes he may be using something. Because you dont throw away that kind of money because you dont want to take some blood tests. Hes got nothing to lose in that fight, hes got losses already and its not gonna ruin any type of legacy losing to arguably the best fighter in the past 10-15 years.  The only way his rep is tarnished is if he looks like a fool out there or he happens to come back with a positive test.

With that said if he agrees to the tests I would give him the benefit of the doubt and say hes not using and let the fight speak for itself because that will be the true test.
 
Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

CC I got him around 20 on my all time list.
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Pretty fair.

Do you really think Mayweather can crack this list by only beating Williams?

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Armstrong
Walker
Hearns
Gavilan
Napoles
Burley
Griffith
Walcott
 
good read sircharles.

Floyd plays the "black bad guy" so well and the public (white & black) eats it up and then when he's in the ring he is the exact opposite. a technician. not at all a boastful arrogant show off. its actually kinda funny to see the charicature Floyd has made himself into on 24/7 to sell fights


who remembers about a yr ago ESPN was saying Antonio margarito would be some of history's top welterweights ahdshsahdfhadshhadsfas

I need to find it cus i know it was posted in the boxing thread
 
I think ranking a current fighter right now regardless if you put him in the Top 3 or Top 50 is a null point. Time effects a ranking way too much.
 
Money May the ARTFUL DODGER... No one is seeing this dude, I'm one of the biggest Pac Man fans out there but I'mma keep it real. May would give Pac Man the business.
 
Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

who remembers about a yr ago ESPN was saying Antonio margarito would be some of history's top welterweights ahdshsahdfhadshhadsfas

I need to find it cus i know it was posted in the boxing thread
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They had him beating Benitez by TKO .
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Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

good read sircharles.

Floyd plays the "black bad guy" so well and the public (white & black) eats it up and then when he's in the ring he is the exact opposite. a technician. not at all a boastful arrogant show off. its actually kinda funny to see the charicature Floyd has made himself into on 24/7 to sell fights
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it's really funny how sooo many people are praying for PBF's downfall.. who is gonna sell the fight if he doesn't play that bad guy.. if he doesn't throw fuel in the fire.. Ali was one of the greatest trash talkers ever. both back it up in the ring.. even more so, when watching 24/7, Mayweather seems like such a great family guy. the way he interacts with his kids and all.. people need to give the man some credit.
 
Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

I maybe wrong, but I believe they had Tonio beating Tito Trinidad by stoppage too
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Tito might have some trouble early on, but the starts to open up in the midrounds.

Tito by KO/TKO in 7
 
I can't disagree with anything you said Pro.

I just feel like he gets held to a higher standad because of his talent level and how easy he make his fights look.

Eitherway, now is his moment to show and prove.

CC if Floyd beats Pac and Pun...you don't have him in your top 5 welters?

What else could he do besides that to get ranking?
 
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