***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[me love nutella]

I think it'd be a disservice to equate the loudest and most aversive folks in the Pro Palestinian camp to everyone. There's more level-headed folks in the space than not, which I shouldn't have to say. Most of Harris's voters want some actual action done on Gaza, I think it'd be best to be done sooner rather than later

As someone who will vote for her, I will also do all I can to support the uncommitted movement towards moving her towards actual action. We should not be trying to elect politicians who we can't challenge

The issue is U.S. imperialism/Western hegemony, and it is maintained as system is designed. So, as an American, why are we questioning how this needs to be torn down? Before anyone comes for me, no, I am not a pro-Putin or China apologist either, and they need to be torn down as well. However, they are acting as a deterrent to the Western hegemon.

The ruling elite don't give a damn about us, and it is truly frustrating and I want to scream into the void that they maintained it we have to vote for these monsters and decide who gets to live or die, and who's worthy of life and who isn't. It is all these ruling elites and corporations and oligarchs that are running this world, and we are here just like sheep voting our lives away.

 

[earldagoat]

 

[earldagoat]

 

[gry60]

The flaw in thinking that not providing weapons to Israel will stop the slaughter of Palestinians is in the belief that nobody else in the world would be willing to provide support to Israel in exchange for what they bring to the table: friendly relationship with a powerful, high tech nation sitting at a major intersection of global trade.

The way the history of this conflict is told, especially in political circles, ignores that early in its history, Israel bought weapons from the Eastern bloc; it also ignores that there's is a large population of Israelis with Russian background; and it ignores that the fundamental policy change that must occur within Israeli society is making the quest to conquer Mandatory Palestine taboo. As long as the incentive of conquest exists (an incentive which, in the Israeli collective psyche, is fed by the notion that conquest <=> survival), Israel will continue buying/receiving weapons from WHEREVER. When it comes to their survival, they are agnostic.

What does that mean for the US? If we don't sell to them, China will; Russia will; India will. And for those countries, the returns in technological knowledge, trade favors, intelligence, growing regional influence will be worth it. So, you tell me: which presidential candidate can honestly hope to win on the message that they will purposefully decrease the US's ability to wield power AND increase American rivals' capabilities in the name of stopping a war that is not even at her doorstep?

None, because accusing a presidential candidate of wanting to weaken the nation is still a very potent campaign attack against them. I think Harris may handle Gaza a lot more urgency than Biden has shown, but asking her to place Gaza at the top of her agenda will open her up to attacks that are very difficult to fend off, especially if Israel starts making open moves towards the aforementioned rivals in the middle of the election season.

 

[Based Jesus]

Most of Harris's voters want some actual action done on Gaza, I think it'd be best to be done sooner rather than later

As someone who will vote for her, I will also do all I can to support the uncommitted movement towards moving her towards actual action. We should not be trying to elect politicians who we can't challenge

 

[me love nutella]

The flaw in thinking that not providing weapons to Israel will stop the slaughter of Palestinians is in the belief that nobody else in the world would be willing to provide support to Israel in exchange for what they bring to the table: friendly relationship with a powerful, high tech nation sitting at a major intersection of global trade ...

Valid insights...

China is pandering to the Palestinians and that they will rebuild Gaza Ya, no thank you, because I am just not at all for another face to the Empire and this capital trade fight to the top.

Also, as you stated the fear is that isolation could embolden Israel and Netanyahu further.

But, nations have been re-drawn and fell due to sanctions and stop of arms. i.e. South Africa. Yes, there are differences, but I mean, we need to start somewhere to disarm and neutralize don't we?

The issue is the military industrial complex, capitalism and geopolitical power at play.

But, Israel cannot work alone though. It needs financial aid as well as backing in the international arena from some major power as you stated. China and Russia are certainly not partners right now. As for India, it has its own problems. It faces challenges in the areas of its own economic domestic issues plagued by poverty and infrastructure, and faces conflicts on the borders of Pakistan and China. That's why the thought that India will give Israel more foreign aid is divorced from reality.

No less important than the aid that the US gives to Israel is in the use it makes for Israel's benefit of the veto it has in the UN Security Council.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

What do you expect though?

This Dem administration is arming and supplying the genocide, slaughtering mass civilians to oblivion. Gaza is already passing tons of metrics and number of deaths PER CAPITA. Analysts are even saying Israel's attack on Gaza has unleashed destruction on a scale that surpasses even most notorious allied bombing campaigns of WWII.

These people in power slaughtering others around the world and at home do not deserve peace.

I don't expect anything. This a simple political calculation.

If a group is going to position itself as antagonistic to the democratic party,

If that group is going to signal that they can't be bargained with, there is no compromise, there is no fig leaf that they will accept...

then they should be treated like an antagonist.


Now PERSONALLY if it were me, and I was a pro Palestinian faced with a democratic party nominee who by all accounts is more skeptical of Isreal than the previous one.

And is much more skeptical than the Republican nominee,

I would be doing everything possible to ingratiate myself with the new administration.
I'd be doing everything possible to show that I'm a good coalition partner and wield influence that way.

But that's just me.

having the moral high ground does not give you carte blanche to behave in politically counter prod.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This poll is being framed as some kind of win for the pro Palestinians

When in reality is that it paints a grim picture.

The worst type of political problem is one what splits your coalition and unites the other side.

 

[Mark Antony]

Vote for the side more likely to listen to you and stay active. Folks never commit to the stay active part.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Sent in my passport to be renewed

USPS lost the damn envelope.

Passport gone, and it had a $220 cashier's check in it.



Biden paying me back for asking for him to step down.

 

[pmatic]

His last name being Vought is too on the nose.

 

[Dark Brandon]

Sent in my passport to be renewed

USPS lost the damn envelope.

Passport gone, and it had a $220 cashier's check in it.



Biden paying me back for asking for him to step down.

Good thing it was a cashiers check. At least the funds can be returned.

 

[Quincy McCall]

The flaw in thinking that not providing weapons to Israel will stop the slaughter of Palestinians is in the belief that nobody else in the world would be willing to provide support to Israel in exchange for what they bring to the table: friendly relationship with a powerful, high tech nation sitting at a major intersection of global trade.

The way the history of this conflict is told, especially in political circles, ignores that early in its history, Israel bought weapons from the Eastern bloc; it also ignores that there's is a large population of Israelis with Russian background; and it ignores that the fundamental policy change that must occur within Israeli society is making the quest to conquer Mandatory Palestine taboo. As long as the incentive of conquest exists (an incentive which, in the Israeli collective psyche, is fed by the notion that conquest <=> survival), Israel will continue buying/receiving weapons from WHEREVER. When it comes to their survival, they are agnostic.

What does that mean for the US? If we don't sell to them, China will; Russia will; India will. And for those countries, the returns in technological knowledge, trade favors, intelligence, growing regional influence will be worth it. So, you tell me: which presidential candidate can honestly hope to win on the message that they will purposefully decrease the US's ability to wield power AND increase American rivals' capabilities in the name of stopping a war that is not even at her doorstep?

None, because accusing a presidential candidate of wanting to weaken the nation is still a very potent campaign attack against them. I think Harris may handle Gaza a lot more urgency than Biden has shown, but asking her to place Gaza at the top of her agenda will open her up to attacks that are very difficult to fend off, especially if Israel starts making open moves towards the aforementioned rivals in the middle of the election season.

Can't be both the moral party and choose to send bombs to a fascist, going to have to choose at some point. Don't think that everyone believes that this will stop the slaughter, at the very least we don't want to be the ones supporting and paying for it

 

[pmatic]