***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Public Enemy]

 

[Public Enemy]

This is from May 2024, right

 

[1995]

Here we go—jumping on the bandwagon. Well done; what a fantastic post.

But you're right! You got it!

Hey hold on now

I've been on the "keko jones is weird and annoying" bandwagon since you were calling DeSantis a genius for his migrant stunt

Thank you very much

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

One of my issues is that we have to figure out a way to get our baseline of support to the Republican baseline such that no matter what we have a 51% chance to win in every election. Our top line is way higher than theirs but how to we get to that level of support?

We need more than 51%. With the Senate the way it is, we need a sustained baseline that provides us with occasional shots at landslides. With the rise of ethnic authoritarianism in Europe, climate change, and increasing automation we will need a sustained effort to build institutions to handle these huge issues.

We can’t let the right get control often enough to continue to make a mess of things. We can’t only win when they screw up. We need a coalition that is singular in mind and sees an enduring enemy - something that can’t be defeated in 4 or even 8 years.

 

[seasoned vet]

i call Bull on this one.

ive actually seen this exact scenario play out at work, when the GOTCHA moment came, the conservative said “GOOD! ill find another job!”

conservatives are committed man, committed to the point of doing themselves in with a smile

another conservative when pressed about Medicare effecting his ailing elderly mother replied, “shes lived long enough!”

i learned then its pointless to argue with conservatives thinking if it touches them they’ll have a change of heart.

they’re not capable of empathy

 

[rolaholic]

 

[biggie62]

John Paulsons hedge fund hasn’t made money that beat the S&P earnings since the 2008 bet. He’s living off his laurels still.

 

[keko jones]

Hey hold on now

I've been on the "keko jones is weird and annoying" bandwagon since you were calling DeSantis a genius for his migrant stunt

Thank you very much

Did I really say it like that? If so, I’ll admit, it was a bit of a troll post. But I still stand by this: if border states are facing challenges with undocumented immigrants and the federal government, along with Democrats, are limiting their ability to enforce deportations, then sanctuary states should be prepared to address these issues. Am I wrong for thinking that way?

 

[elpablo21]

This is from May 2024, right

I think July

 

[gry60]

Did I really say it like that? If so, I’ll admit, it was a bit of a troll post. But I still stand by this: if border states are facing challenges with undocumented immigrants and the federal government, along with Democrats, are limiting their ability to enforce deportations, then sanctuary states should be prepared to address these issues. Am I wrong for thinking that way?

You are wrong for buying into the narrative that democrats and the federal government didn't do anything about it.

I posted a video that disproved this premise, you still haven't updated your argument to include those facts, and you use the false premise to support a policy that weaponizes and dehumanizes people.

That's what pisses people off here. You keep repeating the same false ****, and you hope that it will finally slide under the radar. When it doesn't, you lash out at the "liberal NT bubble."

This thread has been live for more than a decade, and the regulars have had it with the dumb arguments for a very, very long time.

 

[keko jones]

While I don’t agree with everything he’s saying, this aligns with the story a-friend mentioned and highlights an ongoing issue.

Today, I spoke with a professor from Northeastern College who shared a classroom experience. A student voiced her thoughts on why some voters felt disconnected from Harris, saying, “I never got any real answers from Kamala. By the time she started responding, I’d forget what the question even was.” Immediately, several classmates began booing, labeling her a "Trump supporter" and deflecting with questions about Trump. Ironically, the student had voted for Harris.

But you guys got it!

 

[me love nutella]

Are you sure about that?

What I see is, people are angered by the fact that the very people who have benefited from an open immigration system are trying to pull the ladder behind them.

There isn't a large African, Arab, Latino, Asian population in the US without the lifting of immigration bans for those areas in the 1950s/60s. Is it surprising to see the sentiment that "if recent immigrants are going to ignore how they were able to get here and **** on those who made their presence here possible, maybe we should revisit the policy of letting everybody in?"

While the outcome is maga-like, the motivations have to do with the feeling that altruism only goes one way. And the mistake a lot of "me first" immigrants are going to realize is, even the most tolerant groups are not impervious to the feeling of being abused.

If anything, the age of grievances has just started, and it's going to get uglier in a lot of unanticipated directions.

How is it altruism goes one way? They are exploiting us, we're not exploiting these Western governments.

Like c'mon now...How are you not seeing this cycle of turnaround of WHY immigrants MOVE to Western countries like the U.S.? You think many of them wanted to leave their homes and families behind? You think people love the West for their "freedoms"?

You're smart enough to know it has to do with the imperialist appropriation in the world economy from the imperialist superpowers, which drain the Global South through unequal exchange and by destabilizing their countries through wars and capitalist economic policies.

How about these imperialist powers stop messing up the world, plundering and pillaging our countries, and bombing us so that we don't have to be forced look for better opportunities and another level to be exploited in the West?

So why the hell are we blaming the voters in so much as the ruling elites and their engineering to continue their reins of power, and hoard more massive wealth on our backs and from their exploitation?

 

[keko jones]

You are wrong for buying into the narrative that democrats and the federal government didn't do anything about it.

I posted a video that disproved this premise, you still haven't updated your argument to include those facts, and you use the false premise to support a policy that weaponizes and dehumanizes people.

That's what pisses people off here. You keep repeating the same false ****, and you hope that it will finally slide under the radar. When it doesn't, you lash out at the "liberal NT bubble."

This thread has been live for more than a decade, and the regulars have had it with the dumb arguments for a very, very long time.

What’s the false narrative here? Immigration has been a central issue for every administration, on both sides. As far back as I can remember, if someone was caught crossing the border illegally, they were taken to a detention center and then sent back. Repeat offenders were jailed, served time, and then deported. Why is it now that people can enter, receive a case number or appointment without proper vetting, and continue on their way? Where’s the disconnect between policy and what’s actually happening?

The reality is that streets, shelters, and schools in sanctuary states are filling up with recent immigrants. You can criticize my perspective or call it uninformed, but on the ground, it feels different from what’s described in official statements or articles. It’s not about who’s “smart” or well-informed; it’s about addressing the real-life impacts that seem to be missing from the conversation.

The focus should be on reaching absentee, swing, and disillusioned voters who feel their concerns aren’t being addressed. And presenting these facts. Insults or attempts to belittle others don’t change the fact that there’s a larger issue here, one that requires an open mind and a serious look at how policy aligns with real-world outcomes.

After all, the goal is for people not to believe everything Trump says. Yet, many are—they’re making decisions based on information his campaign presents as fact. But you are dismissing them as "uneducated" or "dumb" which doesn’t address the issue. In their eyes/minds they are making an informed decision.

 

[a-friend]

Oh is that what just happened with 1995



Honestly, people keep saying I don't understand, yet act like they know everything. In what world does that make sense?

I actually had not got to at1995's response to you yet but exactly that yes.
They will say it's because the regulars are tired of dumb arguments and trolls.

 

[aepps20]

We need more than 51%. With the Senate the way it is, we need a sustained baseline that provides us with occasional shots at landslides. With the rise of ethnic authoritarianism in Europe, climate change, and increasing automation we will need a sustained effort to build institutions to handle these huge issues.

We can’t let the right get control often enough to continue to make a mess of things. We can’t only win when they screw up. We need a coalition that is singular in mind and sees an enduring enemy - something that can’t be defeated in 4 or even 8 years.

This will be our job for the next 4 years to help build that coalition. I hate to say it but the coalition let us down. We can argue why they did but the did.

 

[a-friend]

While I don’t agree with everything he’s saying, this aligns with the story a-friend mentioned and highlights an ongoing issue.

Today, I spoke with a professor from Northeastern College who shared a classroom experience. A student voiced her thoughts on why some voters felt disconnected from Harris, saying, “I never got any real answers from Kamala. By the time she started responding, I’d forget what the question even was.” Immediately, several classmates began booing, labeling her a "Trump supporter" and deflecting with questions about Trump. Ironically, the student had voted for Harris.

But you guys got it!

I wonder if that person in the video was voting for TRUMP before catching the Rogan podcast.
Probably so since "everyone who watches Rogan is already a TRUMPER."
Actually that is sarcasm, I bet at some point (not sure about Pronouns so forgive me) that person was either 1. not voting at all or 2. voting for Kamala and JD who was brilliant on ROGAN swayed the vote and picked it up.

 

[keko jones]

@aepps20 This will be our job for the next 4 years to help build that coalition. I hate to say it but the coalition let us down. We can argue why they did but the did.

Exactly. These so-called "intellectuals" in NT are quick to blame uneducated voters for the election outcome. Yet, they get upset when they have to simplify things and repeat them over and over. Meanwhile, Trump drove his message home relentlessly—whether it was about the election being stolen, Biden’s mental health, the broken border, or using the law to stop him from running again. Every negative point, he repeated constantly, and it worked.

Yet here, people expect the uneducated to read article after article to understand why things are working. The reality is, that approach doesn’t resonate. You need to simplify, be repetitive, and keep reinforcing the message. Start by saying, "Trump broke the border, and it’ll take decades to fix," or "Trump's policies created inflation, and it will take time to recover, no matter who's in office." Make these points clear, repeat them often, and don’t stop. Sure show them data, but don't stop the talking points.


Being dismissive and arrogant work for Trump but won’t help your cause with the peeon voters—it will only push voters further toward your opposition. While you might feel relieved that the "annoying" poster isn’t bothering you anymore, just know that he doesn’t care. You’ve already made up his mind, and he’ll vote in silence.

 

[rolaholic]

At least the window dressing will be off of the oligarchy I suppose

 

[aepps20]

Exactly. These so-called "intellectuals" in NT are quick to blame uneducated voters for the election outcome. Yet, they get upset when they have to simplify things and repeat them over and over. Meanwhile, Trump drove his message home relentlessly—whether it was about the election being stolen, Biden’s mental health, the broken border, or using the law to stop him from running again. Every negative point, he repeated constantly, and it worked.

Yet here, people expect the uneducated to read article after article to understand why things are working. The reality is, that approach doesn’t resonate. You need to simplify, be repetitive, and keep reinforcing the message. Start by saying, "Trump broke the border, and it’ll take decades to fix," or "Trump's policies created inflation, and it will take time to recover, no matter who's in office." Make these points clear, repeat them often, and don’t stop. Sure show them data, but don't stop the talking points.


Being dismissive and arrogant work for Trump but won’t help your cause with the peeon voters—it will only push voters further toward your opposition. While you might feel relieved that the "annoying" poster isn’t bothering you anymore, just know that he doesn’t care. You’ve already made up his mind, and he’ll vote in silence.

I agree, we have to have simple messages and hammer them home. The only thing is that even if you do that you have to be honest with your coalition and the coalition has to be willing to sacrifice for the greater good. Let’s be real, Americans are for the most part spoiled and entitled. We want the best in luxury but we want to pay less than everyone else. Fixing inflation will never stop corporate greed and prices going up. Some of the folks whining about prices going up are living in big homes and were taking fancy vacations only to say economic anxiety got them. Inflation is a worldwide problem exasperated by the pandemic. If people really want prices to go down boycott companies and brands with the highest prices and see how they fall. When asked about it Trump said “drill baby drill” and then started talking about Nuclear war.

 

[keko jones]

I agree, we have to have simple messages and hammer them home. The only thing is that even if you do that you have to be honest with your coalition and the coalition has to be willing to sacrifice for the greater good. Let’s be real, Americans are for the most part spoiled and entitled. We want the best in luxury but we want to pay less than everyone else. Fixing inflation will never stop corporate greed and prices going up. Some of the folks whining about prices going up are living in big homes and were taking fancy vacations only to say economic anxiety got them. Inflation is a worldwide problem exasperated by the pandemic. If people really want prices to go down boycott companies and brands with the highest prices and see how they fall. When asked about it Trump said “drill baby drill” and then started talking about Nuclear war.

I agree!

I wanted to comment on Trump's speech where he said, "The ladies know what we're going to do, Drill baby Drill." While this is typical for Trump, I feel like if anyone else had said something like that, they would have been quickly canceled.

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

The only thing is that even if you do that you have to be honest with your coalition and the coalition has to be willing to sacrifice for the greater good.

You need a simple, unambiguous agenda. And you need to limit the messaging to that agenda. And that means nothing that won’t appeal to 70% of the population - because you’re going to lose 15-20 on preference.

Everyone knows the problems: prices are high, wages are stagnant, housing and education is too expensive, there aren’t enough meaningful jobs. Haha, and modern dating sucks.

Trump gave them the twin enemies of immigrants and diversity to explain every one of those problems. Everyone in this thread knows that they aren’t actually to blame, but enough of America bought it. It felt right to them. It rang true. Democrats offered some nebulous set of institutional barriers, bias, tax codes, testy terms - real egghead stuff.

Trump gave any easy prescription: deport everyone and eliminate racist and sexist preferences (irony!). Get rid of the female DEI secret service head. Deport Muslim agitators. These seem achievable and so America saw him as having a solution.

Democrats promised to keep fighting all the barriers, but managed expectations that they probably couldn’t get much done in the current legislative and judicial environment.

It’s no wonder people are swinging to totalitarianism.

We know that putting CEO kleptocrats in charge is only going to make things worse. So we need a durable enemy and a durable strategy to replace the scapegoats. And it would be great if that enemy actually WS at least partially responsible for all the problems.

 

[a-friend]

I agree!

I wanted to comment on Trump's speech where he said, "The ladies know what we're going to do, Drill baby Drill." While this is typical for Trump, I feel like if anyone else had said something like that, they would have been quickly canceled.

The thing about Trump, the lovable thing at that is that he is authentic.
He is krass and all the other ______ you want to put on him but one thing you can't say is that he is fronting.
There is something to behold when you know exactly who you are dealing with.

You won't see him saying "ladies, we are going to drill baby drill" and then catch him at Church on SUNDAY's laying hands on the bellies of pregnant women and blessing their wombs.
You will see him on hole number seven doing the hawk tua hand gesture to his buddy while the group in front of him wait for the lady in the group to sink her putt.

 

[gry60]

You need to simplify, be repetitive, and keep reinforcing the message. Start by saying, "Trump broke the border, and it’ll take decades to fix,"

It didn't take decades to fix. It took a couple of years and cooperation with other countries.

The Biden policy was broken down here:

:

The problem is simpler than simplify issues and solutions (which is what people do in this thread until they give up and tell you to go away): it's about trust.

You won't believe a source that you don't trust, and Americans have lived under 40 years of propaganda about the trustworthiness of Democrats. No amount of breaking down the issues, letter by letter, will fix this. So now, you all have to experience the explanations you chose to reject.

It's like those folks who reject the truth about the precarity of the US healthcare system until they get the five-figure bill for their lifesaving procedure.

 

[heelsandeers]

How 5 key demographic groups voted in 2024: AP VoteCast

Donald Trump won the presidency after holding tight to his core base of voters and slightly expanding his coalition to include several groups that have traditionally been a part of the Democratic base.

apnews.com

osh kosh bosh DCAllAfrican

Spoiler

Trump’s share of Black voters rose slightly, driven largely by younger men​

Trump was able to make slight inroads with Black voters nationally, who made up about 1 in 10 voters across the country.
Nationally, about 8 in 10 Black voters supported Harris. But, that was down from about 9 in 10 in the last presidential election who went for Biden.
Trump about doubled his share of young Black men – which helped him among key Democratic voting group. About 3 in 10 Black men under the age of 45 went for Trump, roughly double the number he got in 2020.

Spoiler

Slightly more Hispanic voters supported Trump in 2020​

While Harris won more than half of Hispanic voters, that support was down slightly from the roughly 6 in 10 Hispanic voters that Biden won.
Hispanic voters were more open to Trump than they were in 2020. Roughly half of Latino men voted for Harris, down from about 6 in 10 who went for Biden.

 

[aepps20]

I agree!

I wanted to comment on Trump's speech where he said, "The ladies know what we're going to do, Drill baby Drill." While this is typical for Trump, I feel like if anyone else had said something like that, they would have been quickly canceled.

I’d like to know your thoughts on how we can keep the coalition together if we don’t keep our promises? Republicans don’t care (this is why I focus on their floor being higher and more committed than ours) and never hold their leaders responsible. My analysis of elections since Bush 1 shows the gross trend where Republicans have to totally screw up (they will), we get in and fix things (Clinton, Obama, Biden) because our coalition and independents support the cause and yet after 4 to 8 years of relative stability, the coalition breaks down and gives the Republicans another chance to restart the cycle. If our floor were higher we could still win in those elections where we don’t get massive turnout from our side.