***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

No it is not. Miss me with this strawman


It was brought up before to argue against Trump having a mandate, or his presidency reflects the will of the people.


I have even given you alternative reasons why it is bad, ones you seemed to have completely ignored out of convenience


Moving to popular vote, if it every happening, doesn't guarantee or make more likely any of the things you listed.


Holding onto a strawman after strawman seems to be your only tactic in this debate.

He DOES have the will of the people, by the system that determines the presidency. What are you talking about a strawman? The popular vote in the 2016 election is meaningless. Fact. Thats NOT the current system. Fact.

The "2 million lead" some of you want to talk about has no relevancy. Thats not to say that there can't be discussion about its merits, but it is completely and utterly irrelevant to the 2016 election, and a good chunk of the discussion is certainly happening because we don't like that Trump won.

Any changes to the current method wouldn't be straightforward. States have inconsistent laws regarding voting that would have to get changed, things would get more standardized, probably a bit tighter overall. The Electoral College allows for the inconsistency and puts more powers in the states hands, but it wouldn't work in a direct vote. It would get way more federal, and considering who's in charge there, I'd argue they could easily make it worse off than you'd want.

-You're not listening to what people are saying FACT.

-You're just running you mouth because you feel you're schooling people. FACT

-The election was decided by 100,000 votes in three states. FACT

-Liberal have had problem with the system since 2000. That was over spilled milk, but still, how that work out for America. Not very well. FACT

-Lower populated states get a disproportional amount of electoral college votes than large ones because the number of electors is locked. This happen in 1929, and as a result have given rural areas more power FACT

-Most states don't give electoral out votes proportionately and that makes it less representative. FACT

-Million of America citizens who lives are affect by the president, and disenfranchises by the popular vote. FACT

-So get you head out the sand and stop thinking we hare just bringing this up to complain about Hillary not winning. That is not why we have been bringing it up, that is where you building the straw man. Pedaling the idea that his discussion was just about spilled milked. You wrong. FACT

-The electoral college is not to meant to represent the will of the people. In fact it is meant to be a firewall against people electing a reckless leader. It is meant to do against the will of the people if need be. FACT

That is why is doesn't present the will of the people, not only because it is a direct election (the Electoral College isn't bound by any law to follow state votes) but more people that voting wanted one candidate over the other. I am fully aware of this is the system, I fully accept it, and but that fact still remains. We don't have to go to popular vote, but that doesn't mean the problems with the electoral college shouldn't be ignored. Geez

And the discussion regarding this since election day has always had more to do with Trump's political capital than anything else.

And just yesterday I said I didn't want to see a recount because Trump won and people have to accept that. So ******* miss me with this bull **** straw man that I am just crying over spilled milk when you won't even stop, get your head out the sand and listen to my other point regarding the failings of the system.

And if you're just gonna talk past me again. I couldn't care less what less you have to say on this subject, with your silly Trump memes. FACT

 

[son nelly]

we know how the electoral college works and we know you can without without the popular vote. you learn that in civics class or intro american history.

i agree with you that changing the system would be difficult and wouldn't necessarily come out better in the end.

but i do think the popular vote count is still relevant. it's like if you get dominated and blown out in round 1 of the playoffs, you can't say anything. but if you lose in the last second of the championship on a technicality, it probably means you were just as good as the winner.

i know our simpleminded society is conditioned to consider the winner as the greatest thing and everyone else as a loser, but the reality is that there are shades of gray. Obama 2008 was much different from Bush 2000.

no one is arguing that Trump's victory wasn't a surprise. but what we are saying is that we expected a severe blowout and instead he was able to win because of the way the electoral college is set up. those are significant nuances. i know people struggle with nuance and prefer to ignore it and that's fine for a commentary on an anonymous forum but not for the bigger picture.

 What we expected is irrelevant though. Thats more on the people placing the expectations than how the the system is setup. A lot of us never wanted to think he could swing some of these states but he did, not because .system is terrible, but because he outplayed Hillary, or rather because she played herself. Multiple reports of neglect and arrogance in places Obama won that she lo

 A senior official from Clinton’s campaign noted that they did have a large staff presence in Michigan and Wisconsin (200 and 180 people respectively) while also stressing that one of the reasons they didn’t do more was, in part, because of psychological games they were playing with the Trump campaign. They recognized that Michigan, for example, was a vulnerable state and felt that if they could keep Trump away—by acting overly confident about their chances—they would win it by a small margin and with a marginal resource allocation.

 

[Based Jesus]

 

There's a reason why I posted those factory videos a few pages back. Ninja needs to see what modern manufacturing really is like. There aren't thousands of people manning the assembly lines like 4 decades ago.

Son think dudes gonna be dusting off their hard hats and welding cars together by hand

Just wait until da car industry is poppin like a stripper tryna get paid b

 

[ninjahood]

ninja, if the automated driving things puts you out of a job, you should be a motivational speaker. even if not, you should consider it.

it wont, and driving is only my job till i finish school and become and certified auto mechanic.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Modern factories employ like 1/10 of the people they used to decades ago.

Manufacturing in the USA is very capital intensive, and it is only going to get more capital intensive.

Matter of fact, if you lower energy cost, that only makes robots more appealing.

 

[ninjahood]

 

 

There's a reason why I posted those factory videos a few pages back. Ninja needs to see what modern manufacturing really is like. There aren't thousands of people manning the assembly lines like 4 decades ago.

Son think dudes gonna be dusting off their hard hats and welding cars together by hand

Just wait until da car industry is poppin like a stripper tryna get paid b

da problem ya must've forgot da aftermarket in da auto industry is 3 times as big, and all da peripheral careers that support da auto industry

has PLENTY of grease monkeys doing da damn thing.

some of ya just got a huge blind spot for anything not involving a office. 

 

[ksteezy]

da problem ya must've forgot da aftermarket in da auto industry is 3 times as big, and all da peripheral careers that support da auto industry

has PLENTY of grease monkeys doing da damn thing.

some of ya just got a huge blind spot for anything not involving a office. 

Fam da days of depending on a diagnostic for your car from a mechanic are on their way out, most people learn to service their car from a YouTube video, the majority of people are financing new cars under warranty or leasing under warranty to not deal with the headache of getting ripped off by a mechanic, every year cars become more like computers, eventually a machine will do all the work and you better hope you learn the skill set nessesary to run these machines....otherwise what you paid Devry Institute you might aswell have put towards that Cuban.

 

[ryda421]

This dude Ninja complains about deficits and the national debt

Yet says we wants a repeat of the Reagan Era

Does anyone find that as hilarious as I do?

he probably doesn't realize that reagan shrinkage of government caused the homeless situation that is currently happening. his platano brain is so far up his ***

 

[ryda421]

da problem ya must've forgot da aftermarket in da auto industry is 3 times as big, and all da peripheral careers that support da auto industry

has PLENTY of grease monkeys doing da damn thing.

some of ya just got a huge blind spot for anything not involving a office. 

you trying to be a mechanic in one of the most pro public transport places in the world. it would be one thing if you lived in a place where people need cars to get around.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Jill Stein up to 600K

 

[son nelly]

-You're not listening to what people are saying FACT.

-You're just running you mouth because you feel you're schooling people. FACT

-The election was decided by 100,000 votes in three states. FACT

-Liberal have had problem with the system since 2000. That was over spilled milk, but still, how that work out for America. Not very well. FACT

-Lower populated states get a disproportional amount of electoral college votes than large ones because the number of electors is locked. FACT

-Most states don't give out votes proportionately and that makes it less representative. FACT

-Million of America citizens who lives are affect my the president, and disenfranchises by the popular vote. FACT

-So get you head out the sand and stop thinking we hare just bringing this up to complain about Hillary not winning. That is not why we have been bringing it up, that is where you building the straw man. Pedaling the idea that his discussion was just about spilled milked. You wrong. FACT

-The electoral college is not to meant to represent the will of the people. In fact it is meant to be a firewall against people elected a reckless leader. It is meant to do againt the will of the people if need be. FACT

That is why is doesn't present the will of the people, not only because it is a direct election (the Electoral College isn't bound by any law to follow state votes) but more people that voting wanted one candidate over the other. I am fully aware of this is the system, I fully accept it, and but that fact still remains.

And the discussion regarding this since election day has always had more to do with Trump's political capital than anything else.

And just yesterday I said I didn't want to see a recount because Trump won and people have to accept that. So ******* miss me with this bull **** straw man that I am just crying over spilled milk when you won't even stop, get your head out the sand and listen to my other point regarding the failings of the system.

And if you're just gonna talk past me again. I couldn't care less what less you have to say on this subject. FACT

I'm not talking past you, you just aren't saying anything of worth. The popular vote as it currently stands is meaningless.

You want to change the game but keep the current stats. Gotta reset.

Like I said, we can talk about the system and changing it all day, but each has its own pros and cons. A Straight popular vote would lock out a ton of states from being relevant in any way and the States hold their fair share of power as it is. You'd have to find a way to placate them with this new system. There is no way they'd allow 3/4 states regardless of size, to account for such a percentage of the overall vote. The disenfranchisement you talked about would shift as well, just to the entire middle of the country. It'd also slightly open up the door (just a bit) to 3rd parties, and I can't see Dems or Repubs going for it. You'd get some regional guys trying to hit big rural areas. Voting laws would go Federal instead of State level. There's a lot of extras in here especially since the guys making the new system would be doing anything to get a leg up. But you don't wanna hear it.

Repeating "Will of the People" ain't gonna mean much, man.

 

[EddieDoyers]

Auto mechanic salaries are pretty low unless you are among the top dawgs
And if there are more and more people heading into the industry, salaries will get even lower as it adjusts to demand
You're practically going to get paid peanuts for your work unless you own your own business, and even then, that's a pretty rough business when going against the big corp competition and all the expenses you have to incur when adjusting to developing technology
But hey, do you Ninja, at least you like what you're doing

 

[Belgium]

you trying to be a mechanic in one of the most pro public transport places in the world. it would be one thing if you lived in a place where people need cars to get around.

Can't really knock Ninja for learning a skill for a new job though. That's his decision and a job is a job.

 

[boris]

Modern factories employ like 1/10 of the people they used to decades ago.

Manufacturing in the USA is very capital intensive, and it is only going to get more capital intensive.

Matter of fact, if you lower energy cost, that only makes robots more appealing.

Not to mention companies expect employees to do the work of at least two people. My company has seen constant layoffs with the workload just continuing to pile up on us. 

 

[whywesteppin]

ninja, if the automated driving things puts you out of a job, you should be a motivational speaker. even if not, you should consider it.

it wont, and driving is only my job till i finish school and become and certified auto mechanic.

props. all joking and politics aside, it's good you're putting yourself through school and picking up new training. best of luck to you.

 

[ryda421]

he has been in school 10+ years.

 

[ninjahood]

 

da problem ya must've forgot da aftermarket in da auto industry is 3 times as big, and all da peripheral careers that support da auto industry

has PLENTY of grease monkeys doing da damn thing.

some of ya just got a huge blind spot for anything not involving a office. 

Fam da days of depending on a diagnostic for your car from a mechanic are on their way out, most people learn to service their car from a YouTube video, 

jeez, are people this lost over vocational industrial careers? 

STATE OF AFFAIRS

New Englanders love their leases, as five of the chowder-chugging states rank in the top 10. Texans don’t trust them so much. Despite being the No. 2 retail auto market (behind California), Texans lease just 11 percent of their new cars. Arkansas comes in last with just 2 percent.

Top 10 are marked in dark yellow.

 

 

[RustyShackleford]

-You're not listening to what people are saying FACT.


-You're just running you mouth because you feel you're schooling people. FACT


-The election was decided by 100,000 votes in three states. FACT


-Liberal have had problem with the system since 2000. That was over spilled milk, but still, how that work out for America. Not very well. FACT


-Lower populated states get a disproportional amount of electoral college votes than large ones because the number of electors is locked. FACT


-Most states don't give out votes proportionately and that makes it less representative. FACT


-Million of America citizens who lives are affect my the president, and disenfranchises by the popular vote. FACT


-So get you head out the sand and stop thinking we hare just bringing this up to complain about Hillary not winning. That is not why we have been bringing it up, that is where you building the straw man. Pedaling the idea that his discussion was just about spilled milked. You wrong. FACT


-The electoral college is not to meant to represent the will of the people. In fact it is meant to be a firewall against people elected a reckless leader. It is meant to do againt the will of the people if need be. FACT


That is why is doesn't present the will of the people, not only because it is a direct election (the Electoral College isn't bound by any law to follow state votes) but more people that voting wanted one candidate over the other. I am fully aware of this is the system, I fully accept it, and but that fact still remains.


And the discussion regarding this since election day has always had more to do with Trump's political capital than anything else.


And just yesterday I said I didn't want to see a recount because Trump won and people have to accept that. So ******* miss me with this bull **** straw man that I am just crying over spilled milk when you won't even stop, get your head out the sand and listen to my other point regarding the failings of the system.


And if you're just gonna talk past me again. I couldn't care less what less you have to say on this subject. FACT

I'm not talking past you, you just aren't saying anything of worth. The popular vote as it currently stands is meaningless.

You want to change the game but keep the current stats. Gotta reset.

Like I said, we can talk about the system and changing it all day, but each has its own pros and cons. A Straight popular vote would lock out a ton of states from being relevant in any way and the States hold their fair share of power as it is. You'd have to find a way to placate them with this new system. There is no way they'd allow 3/4 states regardless of size, to account for such a percentage of the overall vote. The disenfranchisement you talked about would shift as well, just to the entire middle of the country. It'd also slightly open up the door (just a bit) to 3rd parties, and I can't see Dems or Repubs going for it. You'd get some regional guys trying to hit big rural areas. Voting laws would go Federal instead of State level. There's a lot of extras in here especially since the guys making the new system would be doing anything to get a leg up. But you don't wanna hear it.

Repeating "Will of the People" ain't gonna mean much, man.

You are talking past me, and nothing you have said is worth anything as much. I can hear what is not being said

The House is suppose to be a reflection of the public.

It is the Senate that is suppose to disproportionately help smaller states. That is the check

The House is out of wack with representing the public, therefore the Presidency is, because we are locked at 538.

And you seem to not understand the disenfranchise comments. Having your vote be disproportionately power to go to equal is not disenfranchising anyone.

Living in Puerto Rico, Guam or a territory, being a citizen, and not having a say over the President is being disenfranchise.

Secondly, this idea that people in urban ares should have disproportionately less power over people in rural areas is BS. The urban areas have the larger populations, contribute to the tax base more, policies have a bigger impact on them. If the want more over a say in policy, then they have the Senate.

Voting doesn't having to go Federal. I don't know why you keep pedaling/repeating this conjecture. The popular vote would change the rules for one out of the numerous things on the ballot. I aware aware of the drawbacks. But procedurally, very little needs to change.

All you seem to have is deflections and strawmen because you won't face the fact the EC has problems.

You want to keep the EC, find, but it need some changes.

 

[ryda421]

5+ years for da jesus piece. 15+ years for a muscle car. 10+ years for school. 8+ years for a check box.

 

[gry60]

I'm never clowning anyone for going to school, no matter how long it takes. Just remember to plenty of electrical knowledge to your skillset as electric cars become more ubiquitous. Those mechanics will be in short supply soon as more people buy e-cars that are becoming cheaper. The world is moving away from coal and fossil fuels whether you like or not.

 

[ksteezy]

My dude....most routine things one would go to a mechanic for, based on the idea you own an older car out of warranty, you can type in a Google search or a video, order the spare parts needed from Amazon and get two work with a step by step right from your phone....

I never went to school for electrical or plumbing work and I redid my entire kitchen from the ground up based off YouTube....only reason a homeowner nowadays needs a plumber is for the certificate they provide should you need to answer to say a coop board...otherwise the vocational Career is not the move...same goes for a mechanic....

But good luck.

 

[EddieDoyers]

http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/auto-mechanic

Idk man, seems like a very minimal investment and not much upward mobility in life

I think you should spend your studies on being an engineer, you get paid a lot more
My brother in law works for Honda racing and spent 4 years of university and 2 at Japan just to get paid close to 6 figures
Not to mention he had to stay in Ohio to work at the Honda factory plant for a couple years before he could be part of the racing team in California
Tough industry to make big bucks

 

[Xennial]

 

 

[Xennial]

Roughly 41 percent of Trump supporters make $50,000 or less per year, once this regulation is repealed, that means roughly 20 million of the people who voted for him will no longer be required to be paid overtime by their employer.

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/one-stroke-pen-donald-trump-set-screw-millions-supporters/

 

[EddieDoyers]

 

My brother in law earns more being an engineer at Honda racing than being an engineer at Honda factory, that's why he made the move. He loves cars in general, but he knew that being an auto mechanic is practically a living by the paycheck type of job. I'm just saying when people say the auto industry is easy, I hear many experiences that say otherwise.