***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Kimchi Papi]

We're not borrowing money from China to directly support PBS.


Thats ANOTHER lie that gets perpetuated.

Most of this countries debt is NOT to china. Its to OURSELVES.

Thats another lie that people keep touting just to make political gain.

Its just not true. 

On top of that, they lie when they say its 29% Thats complete BS. Its more like 15% based on liberal estimates. 

Yes, WE are the largest holder of our debt, China is the LARGEST foreign holder... China currently has 1 trillion.. round a bouts.  And again, putting a spin on it.. Romney NEVER stated we OWE most of our debt to China, so how is that a lie??  HE implied borrowing money from CHINA to SUPPORT PBS!  be objective! 

Some people have such a hatred or dislike for a political affiliation or a person that they close off their minds and don't think objectively.. That's one of the major reasons why there will never by any bi-partisan cooperation.. Both sides have valid points regarding various topics and issues.. But people think I'm Republican so it's Republican or nothing.. Or I'm Democrat, to hell with Republicans and they're thinking.. BE OBJECTIVE! 

Romney is certainly using anti-Chinese rhetoric as a campaign weapon & saying this about China's US debt holding in one of his commercials...

 

[ggarvinxx3]

so who won the debate?

 

[futuremd]

We're not borrowing money from China to directly support PBS.

Thats ANOTHER lie that gets perpetuated.

Most of this countries debt is NOT to china. Its to OURSELVES.

Thats another lie that people keep touting just to make political gain.

Its just not true. 

On top of that, they lie when they say its 29% Thats complete BS. Its more like 15% based on liberal estimates. 

Yes, WE are the largest holder of our debt, China is the LARGEST foreign holder... China currently has 1 trillion.. round a bouts.  And again, putting a spin on it.. Romney NEVER stated we OWE most of our debt to China, so how is that a lie??  HE implied borrowing money from CHINA to SUPPORT PBS!  be objective! 

Some people have such a hatred or dislike for a political affiliation or a person that they close off their minds and don't think objectively.. That's one of the major reasons why there will never by any bi-partisan cooperation.. Both sides have valid points regarding various topics and issues.. But people think I'm Republican so it's Republican or nothing.. Or I'm Democrat, to hell with Republicans and they're thinking.. BE OBJECTIVE! 

You lose the ability to "be objective" when you tout BS like "we're using money to support PBS"

Tell us Romney, where does PBS get its DIRECT funding? 

Please tell us. 

I don't give a damn about supporting dem's or republicans, but don't stretch facts just to make a point.

Again, Romney is touting ******** in front of people who dont know any better. 

We need to lower the debt but you don't get to then come back and make fun of the matter by saying cuts to PBS are whats needed but then spending more on the military (by far the largest cut) is whats needed.

How the hell does that make sense? 

 

[rarefiedair24]

Romney is certainly using anti-Chinese rhetoric as a campaign weapon & saying this about China's US debt holding in one of his commercials...

He's probably scarred cause' he got a fake pair of Js... 

 

[Kimchi Papi]

Again, Romney is touting ******** in front of people who dont know any better.

This...If you didn't know any better, you would think Romney won the debate but quite the contrary...

 

[futuremd]

so who won the debate?

The problem is that people think you can "win" debates. 

There are either better or worse arguments.

or 

More or less facts being presented.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

See the problem I have with Romney which is the case for all politicians in general but Romney to the nth degree is that he flip flops to whatever will make him money or whatever he thinks will get him votes. I'm convinced he doesn't believe most of what he's talking about. I will say this, his campaign did prepare him nicely for this first debate.

 

[futuremd]

See the problem I have with Romney which is the case for all politicians in general but Romney to the nth degree is that he flip flops to whatever will make him money or whatever he thinks will get him votes. I'm convinced he doesn't believe most of what he's talking about. I will say this, his campaign did prepare him nicely for this first debate.

I met a man in (insert mid-west state) that said, "I'm poor, can you help us?"

 

[3am scholar]

Yeah, he was referring to states where he needed to win, strong tactic people will bite.

 

[jking0821]

Again, Romney is touting ******** in front of people who dont know any better.

This...If you didn't know any better, you would think Romney won the debate but quite the contrary...

Appreciate this thread and all the articles good work people. This is why i hate politics and this is why people are "uniformed". The politicians lie directly to us. You can't just listen to them and vote anymore. If you look up Romeny's tax cut plan....you will get tons of articles with Romney saying 5 different things on what it will and won't do and they are all contradictory. How do i know what you actually want?

Prob not voting this year

 

[rarefiedair24]

You lose the ability to "be objective" when you tout BS like "we're using money to support PBS"

Tell us Romney, where does PBS get its DIRECT funding?  

Please tell us. 

I don't give a damn about supporting dem's or republicans, but don't stretch facts just to make a point.

Again, Romney is touting ******** in front of people who dont know any better. 

We need to lower the debt but you don't get to then come back and make fun of the matter by saying cuts to PBS are whats needed but then spending more on the military (by far the largest cut) is whats needed.

How the hell does that make sense? 

PBS gets about 16% of their funds from the govt.. Now, if Romney would have said he vowed to stop subsidizing PBS coupled with a vow to end subsidies for Exxon Mobil, Conoco Phillips, and Archer Midland, I might be more supportive but we all know that ain't happening... 

 

[rashi]

They refers to the debate committees that maintain the debates.

The debates are scheduled and organized by both parties coming together. There is no third party organizers at stake here. 

Lehrer is a pushover and thats exactly what they wanted. 

Why do you think he keeps getting invited back? He does this **** every 4 years. 

Conspiracy theorist!!!



Also the "Fact Checks" mean absolutely squat. I'm sure both of them lied through their teeth, but guess what? The average voter won't check them for themselves, they eat doughnuts and ice cream while watching Corporate Media outlets that serve their political views for affirmation.

 

[obeahmyal7]

Yes, WE are the largest holder of our debt, China is the LARGEST foreign holder... China currently has 1 trillion.. round a bouts.  And again, putting a spin on it.. Romney NEVER stated we OWE most of our debt to China, so how is that a lie??  HE implied borrowing money from CHINA to SUPPORT PBS!  be objective! 

Some people have such a hatred or dislike for a political affiliation or a person that they close off their minds and don't think objectively.. That's one of the major reasons why there will never by any bi-partisan cooperation.. Both sides have valid points regarding various topics and issues.. But people think I'm Republican so it's Republican or nothing.. Or I'm Democrat, to hell with Republicans and they're thinking.. BE OBJECTIVE! 

In your discussion of Romney's comment about Big Bird, many of you have missed the forest for the trees. At a most basic level, Romney tapped into the anti-Chinese sentiment, which has been fanned and flamed by Democrats and Republicans, alike, as well as the AFL-CIO, at least since 2004. This sentiment is nothing more than a simplistic, pseduo-nationalist argument that attempts to present the woes of our economy in general, and deindustrialization in particular, in populist terms. Presented in this way, anti-Chinese rhetoric directs attention away from the core tenet of capitalism: the search for cheap land and cheap labor. Today, China is the penultimate source for both. Tomorrow it will be Mexico and politicians will articulate anti-Mexico sentiment for "stealing American jobs" (and I guarantee NAFTA won't be mentioned, either). 

Of course, Romney's anti-Chinese rhetoric should not be confused for a deep sense of patriotism. After all, Romney's offshore accounts in tax havens is just one example of Romney's identity as "an archipelago man," in the words of Matt Taibbi. 

There is also a deeper meaning behind Romney's PBS comment. To the extent that he actually has a set of core values, privatization is undoubtedly one of them. As evidenced by he and Ryan's voucher plan for Medicare and Romney's career as a private consultant for Bain Capital, he simply does not believe that the United States should possess collective ownership of any service to Americans, even though PBS's localized structure is in part member supported. In his world, "free people," "free enterprise," and the "free market" are sanctified. Obama also drank from the well of neoliberalism, but not nearly as much as the governor.

The problem with Romney's analyses is that he is totally ignorant of political economy. Indeed, its not about if government shapes markets, but how. In lambasting the size of the federal government, in presenting arguments about the excessive role of government in the lives of Americans in cold war terms, people like Romney ignore the ways in which government has always subsidized capitalist enterprise, be it railroads in the Pacific west or defense plants in the Sunbelt. 

 

[futuremd]

Yes, WE are the largest holder of our debt, China is the LARGEST foreign holder... China currently has 1 trillion.. round a bouts.  And again, putting a spin on it.. Romney NEVER stated we OWE most of our debt to China, so how is that a lie??  HE implied borrowing money from CHINA to SUPPORT PBS!  be objective! 

Some people have such a hatred or dislike for a political affiliation or a person that they close off their minds and don't think objectively.. That's one of the major reasons why there will never by any bi-partisan cooperation.. Both sides have valid points regarding various topics and issues.. But people think I'm Republican so it's Republican or nothing.. Or I'm Democrat, to hell with Republicans and they're thinking.. BE OBJECTIVE! 

In your discussion of Romney's comment about Big Bird, many of you have missed the forest for the trees. At a most basic level, Romney tapped into the anti-Chinese sentiment, which has been fanned and flamed by Democrats and Republicans, alike, as well as the AFL-CIO, at least since 2004. This sentiment is nothing more than a simplistic, pseduo-nationalist argument that attempts to present the woes of our economy in general, and deindustrialization in particular, in populist terms. Presented in this way, anti-Chinese rhetoric directs attention away from the core tenet of capitalism: the search for cheap land and cheap labor. Today, China is the penultimate source for both. Tomorrow it will be Mexico and politicians will articulate anti-Mexico sentiment for "stealing American jobs" (and I guarantee NAFTA won't be mentioned, either). 

Of course, Romney's anti-Chinese rhetoric should not be confused for a deep sense of patriotism. After all, Romney's offshore accounts in tax havens is just one example of Romney's identity as "an archipelago man," in the words of Matt Taibbi. 

There is also a deeper meaning behind Romney's PBS comment. To the extent that he actually has a set of core values, privatization is undoubtedly one of them. As evidenced by he and Ryan's voucher plan for Medicare and Romney's career as a private consultant for Bain Capital, he simply does not believe that the United States should possess collective ownership of any service to Americans, even though PBS's localized structure is in part member supported. In his world, "free people," "free enterprise," and the "free market" are sanctified. Obama also drank from the well of neoliberalism, but not nearly as much as the governor.

The problem with Romney's analyses is that he is totally ignorant of political economy. Indeed, its not about if government shapes markets, but how. In lambasting the size of the federal government, in presenting arguments about the excessive role of government in the lives of Americans in cold war terms, people like Romney ignore the ways in which government has always subsidized capitalist enterprise, be it railroads in the Pacific west or defense plants in the Sunbelt. 

Repped.

My problem isn't with being anti-government...its that they LIE about what that means.

Wanting small government doesn't mean having NO government.

Bottom line. We need government.

Now the question is how much and to what extent.

Cutting PBS (which isn't even supported by the government that much)

Spending more on the military?

Cutting efforts to move towards universal healthcare?

Removing regulations on the market that lead us to 2008 while saying that you like regulations???

He's not "small government"...he is "HIS government" 

 

[rashi]

privatization is undoubtedly one of them.

Taking money and forcing you to put it in corporations instead of the government isn't privatization. It's called Cronyism.

 

[futuremd]

It might be a campaign ad but put this into context:

People just do not care about the facts anymore. This is ridiculous. 

 

[ryda421]

is PBS just big bird? have you seen the documentaries/shows on there? they are not supported by big corporations therefore they can show what they like. that is good tv.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

Nevermind that Romney had a fundraiser in Hong Kong on his behalf & the Romney family trust had significant shares in a Chinese oli company but was liquidated in the summer just before the anti-Chinese rhetoric started...

 

[Kimchi Papi]

It might be a campaign ad but put this into context:



People just do not care about the facts anymore. This is ridiculous. 

That's why I said earlier in a post in the thread is that he promised to do everything for everyone in the debate last night but didn't explain how he'd do it. Maybe he'll tell us later...

 

[Kimchi Papi]

BTW, did anyone like the Lincoln trailer shown during the debate last night? That last line, "I am the president of the United States of American, clothed in immense power!"

 

[deuce king]

Appreciate this thread and all the articles good work people. This is why i hate politics and this is why people are "uniformed". The politicians lie directly to us. You can't just listen to them and vote anymore. If you look up Romeny's tax cut plan....you will get tons of articles with Romney saying 5 different things on what it will and won't do and they are all contradictory. How do i know what you actually want?
Prob not voting this year

You better vote champ, especially for somebody like YOU that is very concerned about student loan debt. Your going to have to get active and get involved champ.

 

[xxpizzo]

Is it sad that im 21 and still not registerd to vote ? i honestly dont even follow this stuff to know what i would be voting for in that matter. maybe i need to breifly read this thread and scroll though

 

[rashi]

Is it sad that im 21 and still not registerd to vote ? i honestly dont even follow this stuff to know what i would be voting for in that matter. maybe i need to breifly read this thread and scroll though

You seriously aren't missing anything, but I would recommend you start reading about current. Don't ask NT to supply you with information.

Al Gore

"Obama arrived in Denver at 2 PM today — Just a few hours before the debate started."... "Romney did his debate prep in Denver. When you go to 5,000 feet and you only have a few hours to adjust -- I don't know." [Source]

Michael Moore

"This is what happens when u pick John Kerry as your debate coach." [Source]

Rachel Maddow

"I do feel that we saw this debate format die a painful death on camera tonight...the debate format was just dismantled. Um...the format, and I think the moderator, honestly, with all due respect for Mr. Lehrer, was just absolutely dismantled." [Source]

Chris Matthews

"Here's my question for Obama: I know he likes saying he doesn't watch cable television but maybe he should start. Maybe he should start. I don't know how he let Romney get away with the crap he throughout tonight about Social Security."...

"Where was Obama tonight? He should watch -- well, not just Hardball, Rachel, he should watch you, he should watch the Reverend Al [Sharpton], he should watch Lawrence. He would learn something about this debate. There's a hot debate going on in this country. You know where it's been held? Here on this network is where we're having the debate." [Source]


Go ahead...take a minute to laugh before moving on to the fundamentals of Team Blue.


Markos Moulitsas

"It wasn't a great night, but not a catastrophic one. The fundamentals still favor our team, by a longshot, and Team Blue has three more debates to turn things around (two presidential and one vice-presidential)." [Source]

Robert Reich

"Romney sounded as if he had conviction, which means he’s either convinced himself that the lies he tells are true or he’s a fabulous actor." [Source]

David Axelrod

"I know this, he [Obama] will come, he will make an honest argument with the American people about how to rebuild the economy and the middle class and he'll hold Gov. Romney to account for these big gaps in the truth we saw last night." [Source]

Geeze, it went that bad?

 

[picknroll24]

Is it sad that im 21 and still not registerd to vote ? i honestly dont even follow this stuff to know what i would be voting for in that matter. maybe i need to breifly read this thread and scroll though

Naw man don't read this thread to form an opinion because the majority of NT is pro-Obama (including me). Read some outside sources to form your own opinion you can start by reading each candidates web page and their stance on the issues.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues?source=primary-nav

http://www.mittromney.com/issues

 

[elpablo21]

Al Gore blaming altitude

Michael Moore

"This is what happens when u pick John Kerry as your debate coach." [Source]