***Official Political Discussion Thread***

Based Jesus said:
 Like an overmined seam of coal, my sympathy for these miners has gone dry.
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yikes
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Oh well. Sometimes you just gotta die
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Bruh...

Why do people who vote for small government and complain about government all the time feel entitled to a government handout when they get in trouble? You reap what you sow. It is not like the Dems did not help you out or try to explain the problems with Trump, but you folks bought the Fox News hook, line and sinker and spat it the face of the main stream media.
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hello, comrades.

have i missed anything?

sorry if posted but:

C9rMIV_XYAADv_P.jpg


my man spicey putting in work :pimp:
 
That is sad. They care more about protecting their pockets instead of respecting and standing up for the women harassed. Fox news gonna Faux news
 
aepps20 said:
Rolaholic said:
Tbf,that's not better than saying Trump and Hillary are the same before the election. One side is still very clearly worse and detrimental to everyone else as a whole :lol:
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One side has better motives but when that side focuses on purity tests and protest votes that get us Da Don, one can see the parallels.
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How though? Trump supporters couldn't give 2 craps about GOP "purity" since they went with the most scandal ridden,non politician :lol:.

Just trying to push back against what's become a common mishcharacterization of progressive Bern supporters.

Let folks tell it and they're all tone deaf, white "bros" who don't care about anything but getting their way when that's far from the truth given that from most post-election accounts,a large percentage switched over to Hillary for the general because they were aware of what was at stake,even more than Hillary supporters voting Obama in '08. You could make a better argument for the folks who just sat out altogether. Dude had a pretty damn diverse support base,outside of the south. Just look back at any of his rallies. He was a pretty popular pick amongst many POC especially amongst millenials where he was the most supported.

The bernie bro narrative, started and mostly peddled by former Clinton staffers go figure, implies that they don't/didn't even exist or their voice isn't worth a damn since they dont fit a narrative which is unfair to them imo and doesn't help with party outreach at all when folks should be trying to get on the same page for the big picture over the next 2-3 years and past simple disagreements on policy instead of cannibalizing one another constantly. That's a worrying trend Ive noticed on the left which sets up exactly the kind of groundwork for a win in 2020 that tiny hands needs,an even more fractured left than in 2016.

Don't think it's helpful lumping them on the same boat as Trump voters,just think it was initially thought up during the primary as another attempt at trying to reach and associate Trump with Bern even though they'really polar opposites on just about everything
besides both being labelled "populists" in the media for varying reasons

My main point again is that I hate seeing progressive POC being marginalized like they don't even exist or they're some rare species when they should be an influential group amongst the Democratic base due to them having a pulse on social justice issues as well as progressive ideas.
 
Bernie Bros does not mean all Bernie supporters, you really need to get over that sticking point in your head. The Bernie Bros narrative is not just something a Clinton person convinced people was true, they actually exist.

And to make it seem like attacking Bernie Bros is dismissing progressive people of color is ridiculous to me.

There are other stuff in your post that just sound weird, but then again I know how you will react if I point out too much.
 
I don't see people making the distinction often though,seeing it being used most of the time as an umbrella term to attack them.

Not sure why the notion is ridiculous when I've seen it time and time again when people want to paint his supporters with a broad brush and make a minority group out to be the voice of his movement.

They don't share much in common with Trump supporters was my original point.

:lol: @ the shot,no need. I'm open to which part you felt was weird. Just pointing out what I've personally noticed in the discourse on the left as a poc who considers themselves progressive
 
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Speaking of...

Ailes,Kelly and O'Reilly all out in the last few months and I didn't even know they're being sued for racial discrimination :lol:

@gabrielsherman: The Fox News nightmare continues this morning. According to two sources, more women are joining the ongoing racial discrimination suit.
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Fox is in shambles :rofl: :pimp:
 
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To expand/clear up my thoughts a little...

It's just that the more I see who pushes that bro narrative as well as ragging on about "purity tests" on the left,(let's be honest,when were primaries ever not purity tests of a sort for a party? They're always full of candidates playing up and flexing their idealogical bonafides to hype up their base),the more I feel like it's a way to try to protect the status quo and discourage certain folks from being vocal.

On some "Oh you're mad about the state of the party? Sit down and quit damaging the party with your purity test,be happy with what you have. At least we're not the other side" kind of attitude.

Not exactly the strongest party pitch to the folks who took themselves out of the fold during the general imo

Not trying to cape for any particular side either here,there have been regrettable actions made by all sides during the election and ever since.

Just feel like it's healthy for the party to share critiques and debate differing ideas and viewpoints within the same party,keeps the party in touch with the different factions of their base. It should be encouraged up until the point where a candidate's selecton has been locked in/made official. After that,it's time for GOP style solidarity amongst the base regardless of whether your candidate won or not in the name of progress for the country.

I agree that folks who don't want to out of ego/selfish reasons deserve the backlash they get whether they're a Bern supporter/independant/from the green party whoever cause if they showed the same enthusiasm and solidarity when its time to show up,they'd most likely hardly ever lose elections even with all the gerrymandering/GOP obstruction

Not tryna come off as trying to propel one side or the other,just wanna see more cooperation between the different party factions instead of being at each other's throats still. Need the party to get back in game shape for the midterm's and 2020 :lol:
 
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Rolaholic said:
I don't see people making the distinction often though,seeing it being used most of the time as an umbrella term to attack them.

Not sure why the notion is ridiculous when I've seen it time and time again when people want to paint his supporters with a broad brush and make a minority group out to be the voice of his movement.

They don't share much in common with Trump supporters was my original point.

:lol: @ the shot,no need. I'm open to which part you felt was weird. Just pointing out what I've personally noticed in the discourse on the left as a poc who considers themselves progressive
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-I'm sorry, but many of us have made the distinction between Bernie Bros and Sander entire coalition, but if someones is still relitigating the primary, or their politics are firmly tied to Sanders in April of 2017, then they are asking to be lumped in with the most obnoxious of the bunch, aka The Bernie Bros.

-Ok fine, there are people of color that are within Bernie's coalition, than they give Bernie and some of his others supporters a pass on the on nonsense way too much. Sanders coalition was not more diverse than Clinton's. Minorities supporting Bernie doesn't change the face of his support was young, white, and male. You seem to want to use minorities as a shield in this instance. Don't be critical of Bernie Bros (which is a well defined subgorup by most parts) because that implies being critical of all Sanders supporters, and that implies being critical of progressive people of color.Yeah, umm, I don't buy this argument

-Your comment was weird in so many ways. First off, you don't have to support Bernie to be considered a progressive. That is a nonsense purity test that is going around. There were many progressives that didn't vote for Bernie and were all in for Clinton. So I don't know why criticizing Sanders, even the people of color, means criticizing progressive people of color as a whole.So once again, you are using minorities as a shield from criticism.

Secondly, you discount the South, which is disproportionately black and brown. So you're saying that Sanders coalition was so diverse, yet admitting he lacks support from places with the largest minority populations. Hmmm, you don't think that is weird? So minority voices in the South need to be discounted then? I don't get it. Why does Bernie get a pass for not connecting with these people, who btw, are some of the most loyal Dem voters.

And people you're a progressive minority supporting Sanders, there was plenty to take issue with. Like why did Bernie launch his campaign without criminal justice reform in it, why was he so uneducated about immigration reform, why did he suggest weakening the power of the black vote within the Dem primary system, why was he all around tone deaf about institutionalized racism, why did he blow off Coates in that way. Even now, famb is going around telling sws that the Dems abandoned them, which has been GOP code for some racist ****, yet he is choosing to message like that.

Another weird thing is that now social justice and progressive idea (I guess you mean left wing economics?) are now divorced from each other? Being for Social justice is not just being anti-racist, or anti-sexist, or anti-insert whatever. There are specific policies to address issues and most of the time have a harsh economic impact on the people they are affecting. Being for social justice means being progressive. Social justice is not the status quo

-I spelled out how Bernie Bros act like Trumpettes is my previous post. And we can add "blame HIllary" as another parallel. No one is saying they are on the same level, but there are parallels.
 
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Rolaholic said:
To expand/clear up my thoughts a little...

It's just that the more I see who pushes that bro narrative as well as ragging on about "purity tests" on the left,(let's be honest,when were primaries ever not purity tests of a sort for a party? They're always full of candidates playing up and flexing their idealogical bonafides to hype up their base),the more I feel like it's a way to try to protect the status quo and discourage certain folks from being vocal.

On some "Oh you're mad about the state of the party? Sit down and quit damaging the party with your purity test,be happy with what you have. At least we're not the other side" kind of attitude.

Not exactly the strongest party pitch to the folks who took themselves out of the fold during the general imo

Not trying to cape for any particular side either here,there have been regrettable actions made by all sides during the election and ever since.

Just feel like it's healthy for the party to share critiques and debate differing ideas and viewpoints within the same party,keeps the party in touch with the different factions of their base. It should be encouraged up until the point where a candidate's selecton has been locked in/made official. After that,it's time for GOP style solidarity amongst the base regardless of whether your candidate won or not in the name of progress for the country.

I agree that folks who don't want to out of ego/selfish reasons deserve the backlash they get whether they're a Bern supporter/independant/from the green party whoever cause if they showed the same enthusiasm and solidarity when its time to show up,they'd most likely hardly ever lose elections even with all the gerrymandering/GOP obstruction

Not tryna come off as trying to propel one side or the other,just wanna see more cooperation between the different party factions instead of being at each other's throats still. Need the party to get back in game shape for the midterm's and 2020 :lol:
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Here is the thing regarding purity test, and Bernie's faction being man about them.

First, if this is about allowing dissent, then Bernie's folk have to allow people to criticize Bernie's ideas. And there is a lot of criticize. Not because someone is a DINO, or corporatist, of paid Clinton shill, or whatever. Some of Bernie's **** is not grounded in reality and intentionally vague. Even if I support them in theory.

But instead, we now have a movement that is threatening Democrats that unless they support Sander's Healthcare plan, they will get primaried and people will not show up for them in 2018.

Furthermore, Bernie's people can't claim they are sick of being told shut up for unity reasons, when their plan towards the end of the primary was basically ask Super Delegates to steal it from Clinton, because they need to stop Trump. And when it was brought up that Hillary voters will not like this the response was "Well do you want Trump to be president"

This is not just about fairness or sharing ideas, it is really about control. Hillary, Obama, and Sanders and their supporters all like want control over the DNC. If everyone just admitted that, then maybe we can get back to the policy debate.
 
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Q
RustyShackleford said:
Rolaholic said:
I don't see people making the distinction often though,seeing it being used most of the time as an umbrella term to attack them.

Not sure why the notion is ridiculous when I've seen it time and time again when people want to paint his supporters with a broad brush and make a minority group out to be the voice of his movement.

They don't share much in common with Trump supporters was my original point.

:lol: @ the shot,no need. I'm open to which part you felt was weird. Just pointing out what I've personally noticed in the discourse on the left as a poc who considers themselves progressive
Click to expand...

-I'm sorry, but many of us have made the distinction between Bernie Bros and Sander entire coalition, but if someones is still relitigating the primary, or their politics are firmly tied to Sanders in April of 2017, then they are asking to be lumped in with the most obnoxious of the bunch, aka The Bernie Bros.

-Ok fine, there are people of color that are within Bernie's coalition, than they give Bernie and some of his others supporters a pass on the on nonsense way too much. Sanders coalition was not more diverse than Clinton's. Minorities supporting Bernie doesn't change the face of his support was young, white, and male. You seem to want to use minorities as a shield in this instance. Don't be critical of Bernie Bros (which is a well defined subgorup by most parts) because that implies being critical of all Sanders supporters, and that implies being critical of progressive people of color.Yeah, umm, I don't by this argument

-Your comment was weird in so many ways. First off, you don't have to support Bernie to be considered a progressive. That is a nonsense purity test that is going around. There were many progressives that didn't vote for Bernie and were all in for Clinton. So I don't know why criticizing Sanders, even the people of color, means criticizing progressive people of color as a whole.So once again, you are using minorities as a shield from criticism.

Secondly, you discount the South, which is disproportionately black and brown. So you're saying that Sanders coalition was so diverse, yet admitting he lacks support from places with the largest minority populations. Hmmm, you don't think that is weird? So minority voices in the South need to be discounted then? I don't get it. Why does Bernie get a pass for not connecting with these people, who btw, are some of the most loyal Dem voters.

And people you're a progressive minority supporting Sanders, there was plenty to take issue with. Like why did Bernie launch his campaign without criminal justice reform in it, why was he so uneducated about immigration reform, why did he suggest weakening the power of the black vote, why was he all around tone deaf about institutionalized racism, why did he blow off Coates in that way. Even now, famb is going around telling sws that the Dems abandoned them, which has been GOP code for some racist ****), yet he is choosing to message like that.

Another weird thing is that now social justice and progressive idea (I guess you mean left wing economics?) are now divorced from each other? Being for Social justice is not just being anti-racist, or anti-sexist, or anti-insert whatever. There are specific policies to address issues and most of the time have a harsh economic impact on the people they are affecting. Being for social justice means being progressive. Social justice is not the status quo

-I spelled out how Bernie Bros act like Trumpettes is my previous post. And we can add "blame HIllary" as another parallel. No one is saying they are on the same level, but there are parallels.
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I was pointing it outbalance the whole bro thing has become the face of the movement in the media and with many people and want to push back against the notion that progressives are only out of touch white liberals. Might be toned down here but I legit keep seeing it used as a portmanteau for every progressive which it's not. Every group has their deplorables and the ones exhibiting those "broish",misogynist traits to tear down Hillary were just that,deplorable. I'm not caping for those folks or the thick headed folks who's egos were too bruised to join the coalition after,I'm kinda caping for the movement itself since those folks aren't a reflection of the movement and it's ideas.

I'm not trying to use it as a shield from the criticisms because there are very real criticisms to be had,many of which I've also brought up and we've both agreed on in regards to the weak social justice platform and lack or urgency there. That's a very real critique and should be heeded,I'm not arguing against that at all.

I specifically excluded the south because of just how overwhelmingly small his support was there compared to Hill there,there's a bevy of reasons for that and they've been discussed at length in here and a lot of that is on the man himself but it also doesn't mean he had no support from POC from other parts of the country.

I didn't say all progressives were Sandersites or anything of the sort,he's just the most vocal and famous self avowed one in congress so of course he garners a lot of support from progressives. Again,only saying that I'm against the widespread characterization of the movement that's made it seem like a dirty word amongst liberals all of a sudden due to it's attachment to the worst elements of the base.

You showed you knew what I meant when I separated them :lol:,of course social justice is a tenant of progressivisim. I was just making a specific distinction between the progressives who care just as much about social justice as other issues. In theory all of them would but like we all know, unless it's affecting a person right now in the interim, many folks just aren't bothered as much as they should.

My OG point was that you can find toxic, negative traits and parallels between the worst of any support base really,just don't think it's fair to some folks to lump em with a base who willingly voted to bring the country back years when the main aim of the other is the exact opposite.

I really wasn't trying to relitigate things,like we still agree on most of these critiques :lol:. Just wishing the overall distinctions were made more often.
 
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But famb, that's who we called out, the worst of the bunch. You beef seems to be with others

Me and Eddie kicked it off, and both of us voted for Sanders, and Eddie was riding for Bernie hard.

And if folk want this "movement" to be more respected, maybe it is time to demand more than allegiance to Bernie.
 
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