***Official Political Discussion Thread***

Brooklyn felt da Bern

How she gonna say sure lets do $15 an hour and be like naaa, let's try out $12 an hour first?! :lol

She said she supports a $12 national, and supports individual states and cities going above that to $15.

The argument against $15 by many liberals (economist included) is that for some places it is too much too soon.
 
Serious? Institutionalized Racism,and yes he's actually used the term in debates, has been a big part of his platform from the get go :lol. He's been the one openly advocating for wideranging reform of law enforcement and
the criminal justice system.

Hell he even called her out for the racial undertones of her infamous "superpredator" line last night when they talked about the 90's crime bill :lol

-No it was not.
 
She said she supports a $12 national, and supports individual states and cities going above that to $15.

The argument against $15 by many liberals (economist included) is that for some places it is too much too soon.
I think the people who make the "too much too soon" argument are being disingenuous. 

In places like NY and LA, the minimum wage won't actually become $15 till at least 2020. Even then, there are stipulations put in place that will put the minimum wage hike on hold, if there is a recession. There is almost certainly going to be a recession. Its possible that the minimum wage won't be $15 in these cities till 2025.
 
She said she supports a $12 national, and supports individual states and cities going above that to $15.


The argument against $15 by many liberals (economist included) is that for some places it is too much too soon.
I think the people who make the "too much too soon" argument are being disingenuous. 

In places like NY and LA, the minimum wage won't actually become $15 till at least 2020. Even then, there are stipulations put in place that will put the minimum wage hike on hold, if there is a recession. There is almost certainly going to be a recession. Its possible that the minimum wage won't be $15 in these cities till 2025.

How are they being disingenuous?

The assumption is that if the minimum wage where to increase tomorrow, or relatively soon, where should it be at 12 or 15. And some are saying nationally, 12 would be better economically.

That doesn't make them against places putting it higher, that doesn't make them against places moving towards higher in the future, it doesn't make them against the plans other cities have out there now. That's basically what Clinton said.

Even Alan Kruger I believe support $12 over $15. So you really think on of the world's best economist, a liberal, that has spent most of his career arguing in favor of minimum wage increases is being disingenuous? There are economic consequences to raising the minimum wage, some people will lose their job, and have their hours cut. Not every city is built the same, they don't face the same demand. You have to consider those place when setting the number
 
How are they being disingenuous?

The assumption is that if the minimum wage where to increase tomorrow, or relatively soon, where should it be at 12 or 15. And some are saying nationally, 12 would be better economically.

That doesn't make them against places putting it higher, that doesn't make them against places moving towards higher in the future, it doesn't make them against the plans other cities have out there now. That's basically what Clinton said.

Even Alan Kruger I believe support $12 over $15. So you really think on of the world's best economist, a liberal, that has spent most of his career arguing in favor of minimum wage increases is being disingenuous? There are economic consequences to raising the minimum wage, some people will lose their job, and have their hours cut. Not every city is built the same, they don't face the same demand. You have to consider those place when setting the number
But that was my point. None of the bills proposed or passed are calling for the minimum wage to go up $12 or $15, tomorrow or relatively soon. The bills that have been passed will have the minimum wage go up to $15 dollars incrementally in about 4-6 years at least. I don't think thats clear to people.

People are losing their jobs and having their hours cut right now. No economist is sure of the effects of raising the minimum wage. Its possible that new jobs would be jobs could be created over being lost because of the rising demand for goods.
 
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How are they being disingenuous?


The assumption is that if the minimum wage where to increase tomorrow, or relatively soon, where should it be at 12 or 15. And some are saying nationally, 12 would be better economically.


That doesn't make them against places putting it higher, that doesn't make them against places moving towards higher in the future, it doesn't make them against the plans other cities have out there now. That's basically what Clinton said.


Even Alan Kruger I believe support $12 over $15. So you really think on of the world's best economist, a liberal, that has spent most of his career arguing in favor of minimum wage increases is being disingenuous? There are economic consequences to raising the minimum wage, some people will lose their job, and have their hours cut. Not every city is built the same, they don't face the same demand. You have to consider those place when setting the number
But that was my point. None of the bills proposed or passed are calling for the minimum wage to go up $12 or $15, tomorrow or relatively soon. The bills that have been passed will have the minimum wage go up to $15 dollars incrementally in about 4-6 years at least. I don't think thats clear to people.

People are losing their jobs and having their hours cut right now. No economist is sure of the effects of raising the minimum wage. Its possible that new jobs would be jobs could be created over being lost because of the rising demand for goods.

Huh?

How is it not clear to that the recent city bills are raising it incrementally. It is clear to me, it is clear to Hillary.

We are talking about institution a federal minimum wage right now, the question posed to Hillary was about a bill being in front her face, she said that she wants $12 now, and work towards $15 federally in the future. No one that supports the lower $10 or $12 federal are arguing against large cities raising it incrementally to $15. This is a false narrative.

And no one is calling for it to stop at $12, many want it tied to inflation too.

Yes there are two effects happening when you raise minimum wage. One that will lend to job loss, and the other that will lead to higher demand and in turn jobs created.

But if you raise it to higher too soon, one will dominate the other, and you will see a net loss in hours worked and jobs loss. Even at $12 you might probably see that.
 
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The too much too soon argument is relying on the slippery slope pitfall of economics.

Hilary should just get ballsy in these debates given she changes her mind and went from $12 to $25 and when asked on that just say she's adjusting for inflation. Then she can change her mind later. She seems to take hits when it's about not promising or guaranteeing a whole lot cuz Bernie is on the far left promising and guaranteeing a complete revolution.

The crowd aint really thinking about the details. They just know Bernie been firm on $15 and they know that's more than $12 regardless of $12 being the suggested raise nationally and Hillary leaving the door open for states to raise to $15 or even higher. They aint trying to hear that.

It's a problem crowds like that don't get. They think when Bernie says free tuition, it's gonna be free for them now. Nah, gonna be free for you when you 35.

Even if it was $15 everywhere **** aint kicking in until 4 years from now.
 
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Dude relax. I wrote one line, just one.

I wasn't looking for an argument, you're the one that came at me, and I checked you right back. For someone that has criticized me about be combative, you're have been the aggressor. Now you're pissed it didn't let your slick comment one more time.

Let's remember once again, you jumped on NT trolling (including race), calling folk scared you hear the truth. Not after I, and probably Meth, point out your schtick wasn't cool did you come with this "I just wanna talk steez". So miss me with this nonsense, like I have it out for you. I debate folk a lot, fine, but I'm not the one running around NT implying people that don't agree with my point of view are sleep, calling people indoctrinated, and being outright dismissive.

That is why I debate folk, so they know I'm not dismissing their points, I'm just simply disagreeing with them. Your big beef with me is because when you come in a thread talking slick, I ask you actually sit down and explain you points, which you struggle to do a lot. Then we have a back and froth and you have a breakdown, and it straight to the personal attacks. Like you rambling about me picking and choosing which of your examples to attack. I never even called a specific one out, you admitted yourself you added some in by mistake. And "smacking kufi off" is a silly Jim Jones joke I use in many threads, I didn't know my making light so often was so offending you so much.

None of the articles you provide evidence that your definition of a war crime as most people define it. You're posting circumstantial evidence, and raging at people that won't see your point of view. But I'm the pugnacious one? Brah please.

Maybe the dismissive attitude you think I have that is pissing you off so much can be a lesson to you.

Because that is probably just how I felt when we discussed race issues in the past. How dismissive you where that it was just the media pushing some agenda.

So take this as a lesson in empathy too.

And again, I wrote one line. And you took it as some sort of attack

Block me, be happier, keep doing you. But learn to act like an adult when challenged/questioned.

I'm relaxed, and you're a liar. You keep referring to the lie that you only wrote "one line". But you actually wrote around 5 lines where you clearly only picked the accused war crimes that could be argued and then edited it. You know and I know that you edited it. I saw it and replied quickly, but didn't quote you. Like I said, you are more concerned with being correct and remaining on your self perpetuated high horse than you are with truth and understanding. Which is exactly the behavior of someone whom is admittedly pugnacious.

Because of that lie, your accusation of me being the aggressor is 100% grade A bologna. I purposely avoid talking to you because I know it leads no where but with me sitting on my *** on the computer arguing all day. That's your arena, and a waste of my time.

I brought up war crimes. Someone asked me to provide links to said war crimes. I did and you responded because you can't keep your little pugnacious pretentious *** fingers off a keyboard for 5 minutes without trying to smack a kufi, as you put it. Say it's a joke all you want, but your attitude and behavior reflect that statement.

Where did I rage at anyone? Because I typed a curse word? Man, perspective is everything and it's hard to know peoples intent on the internet. You see what ever it is you want to see. And because my view points don't fit your world view, you think I'm raging. Which is funny because I never even called anyone a name in here. Referred to them as sheep or sleep. That was other folk.

You do this **** to anyone who disagrees with you in this thread. If they are radical, anarchist, conservative etc. If they have a vew that's different than Rusty's watch out because he's coming for the kufi! But just look at every thread you post in, it's all arguments. This is what you do. So whom is the aggressor? Whom is the "adult" (whatever that bs means)? Whom is pugnacious?


Don't bother replying. You'll be the first person I've blocked since I've been on NT since it's inception in 99'. What a feather in the cap for you.
 
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But that was my point. None of the bills proposed or passed are calling for the minimum wage to go up $12 or $15, tomorrow or relatively soon. The bills that have been passed will have the minimum wage go up to $15 dollars incrementally in about 4-6 years at least. I don't think thats clear to people.

People are losing their jobs and having their hours cut right now. No economist is sure of the effects of raising the minimum wage. Its possible that new jobs would be jobs could be created over being lost because of the rising demand for goods.

Are there any stats for how many people have quit their jobs or lost their jobs and became entrepreneurs?

I feel like with the rising of the internet 2.0 and the ability to market yourself and even generate income on platforms like youtube,podcasts, social media and etsy, the middle man is kind of being cut out and more and more people are going that independent route.

Maybe it's not as many people as I think, but oddly I feel like a lot of people are doing it.
 
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Are there any stats for how many people have quit their jobs or lost their jobs and became entrepreneurs?

I feel like with the rising of the internet 2.0 and the ability to market yourself and even generate income on platforms like youtube,podcasts, social media and etsy, the middle man is kind of being cut out and more and more people are going that independent route.

Maybe it's not as many people as I think, but oddly I feel like a lot of people are doing it.
I don't know any stats on people becoming entrepreneurs but I'm sure theres something out there.

I did just read this article though. 

https://newrepublic.com/article/132407/voters-angry-its-1099-economy-stupid

There has been a HUGE rise in freelance and temp jobs which I guess could be considered working for one self.

This is big for corporations because there is less of an overhead cost when it comes to hiring/firing employees. They don't have to pay benefits, taxes and in a lot of cases training or office space. 
 
Are there any stats for how many people have quit their jobs or lost their jobs and became entrepreneurs?


I feel like with the rising of the internet 2.0 and the ability to market yourself and even generate income on platforms like youtube,podcasts, social media and etsy, the middle man is kind of being cut out and more and more people are going that independent route.


Maybe it's not as many people as I think, but oddly I feel like a lot of people are doing it.
I don't know any stats on people becoming entrepreneurs but I'm sure theres something out there.

I did just read this article though. 

https://newrepublic.com/article/132407/voters-angry-its-1099-economy-stupid

There has been a HUGE rise in freelance and temp jobs which I guess could be considered working for one self.

This is big for corporations because there is less of an overhead cost when it comes to hiring/firing employees. They don't have to pay benefits, taxes and in a lot of cases training or office space. 

I think that's actually going to be the norm in a lot of realms in the future. There is so much overhead w/ hiring people every time someone quits or gets fired.
 
Dude relax. I wrote one line, just one.

I wasn't looking for an argument, you're the one that came at me, and I checked you right back. For someone that has criticized me about be combative, you're have been the aggressor. Now you're pissed it didn't let your slick comment one more time.

Let's remember once again, you jumped on NT trolling (including race), calling folk scared you hear the truth. Not after I, and probably Meth, point out your schtick wasn't cool did you come with this "I just wanna talk steez". So miss me with this nonsense, like I have it out for you. I debate folk a lot, fine, but I'm not the one running around NT implying people that don't agree with my point of view are sleep, calling people indoctrinated, and being outright dismissive.

That is why I debate folk, so they know I'm not dismissing their points, I'm just simply disagreeing with them. Your big beef with me is because when you come in a thread talking slick, I ask you actually sit down and explain you points, which you struggle to do a lot. Then we have a back and froth and you have a breakdown, and it straight to the personal attacks. Like you rambling about me picking and choosing which of your examples to attack. I never even called a specific one out, you admitted yourself you added some in by mistake. And "smacking kufi off" is a silly Jim Jones joke I use in many threads, I didn't know my making light so often was so offending you so much.

None of the articles you provide evidence that your definition of a war crime as most people define it. You're posting circumstantial evidence, and raging at people that won't see your point of view. But I'm the pugnacious one? Brah please.

Maybe the dismissive attitude you think I have that is pissing you off so much can be a lesson to you.

Because that is probably just how I felt when we discussed race issues in the past. How dismissive you where that it was just the media pushing some agenda.

So take this as a lesson in empathy too.

And again, I wrote one line. And you took it as some sort of attack

Block me, be happier, keep doing you. But learn to act like an adult when challenged/questioned.

I'm relaxed, and you're a liar. You keep referring to the lie that you only wrote "one line". But you actually wrote around 5 lines where you clearly only picked the accused war crimes that could be argued and then edited it. You know and I know that you edited it. I saw it and replied quickly, but didn't quote you. Like I said, you are more concerned with being correct and remaining on your self perpetuated high horse than you are with truth and understanding. Which is exactly the behavior of someone whom is admittedly pugnacious.

Because of that lie, your accusation of me being the aggressor is 100% grade A bologna. I purposely avoid talking to you because I know it leads no where but with me sitting on my *** on the computer arguing all day. That's your arena, and a waste of my time.

I brought up war crimes. Someone asked me to provide links to said war crimes. I did and you responded because you can't keep your little pugnacious pretentious *** fingers off a keyboard for 5 minutes without trying to smack a kufi, as you put it. Say it's a joke all you want, but your attitude and behavior reflect that statement.

Where did I rage at anyone? Because I typed a curse word? Man, perspective is everything and it's hard to know peoples intent on the internet. You see what ever it is you want to see. And because my view points don't fit your world view, you think I'm raging. Which is funny because I never even called anyone a name in here. Referred to them as sheep or sleep. That was other folk.

You do this **** to anyone who disagrees with you in this thread. If they are radical, anarchist, conservative etc. If they have a vew that's different than Rusty's watch out because he's coming for the kufi! But just look at every thread you post in, it's all arguments. This is what you do. So whom is the aggressor? Whom is the "adult" (whatever that bs means)? Whom is pugnacious?


Don't bother replying. You'll be the first person I've blocked since I've been on NT since it's inception in 99'. What a feather in the cap for you.

K

wait.....

-It seems can't handle people challenging your views, and that is all I have ever done with you. You take personal shots at me all the damb time, please don't play coy

-All I ask of you is defend you points, which you struggled to do. In the line I edited out within seconds, I literally listed all your points, all were off to some degree, and I repeated that claim. You, not me, seem to have a real problem with an alternative way of viewing the world. Because I can debate a personal easily, you throwing shots with a couple post. Labeling me unwelcoming, pugnacious, indoctrinated, and calling others sheep. Yet I have the problem because I debate folk?

Just look back at first time you stop trolling can I asked you to enlighten me on your worldview, the second I ask you to dig deeper, you become condescending:

http://niketalk.com/t/509493/official-political-discussion-thread/6690#post_24677679

I have given you a honest race after your trolling, and antics at Thanksgiving. So please don't make it seem like I come for yourneck every time

Plus, NT is about chopping it up. In one thread you agree with them, the next one you debate. Me and Ninja have probably share as many laughs as we have had back and forth. I don't know why you have such a problem with my challenging your opinion, and such a seemingly personal problem with me.

But cool, it sounds like found a solution to your problem.

So now

K
 
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I'm relaxed, and you're a liar. You keep referring to the lie that you only wrote "one line". But you actually wrote around 5 lines where you clearly only picked the accused war crimes that could be argued and then edited it. You know and I know that you edited it. I saw it and replied quickly, but didn't quote you. Like I said, you are more concerned with being correct and remaining on your self perpetuated high horse than you are with truth and understanding. Which is exactly the behavior of someone whom is admittedly pugnacious.

Because of that lie, your accusation of me being the aggressor is 100% grade A bologna. I purposely avoid talking to you because I know it leads no where but with me sitting on my *** on the computer arguing all day. That's your arena, and a waste of my time.

I brought up war crimes. Someone asked me to provide links to said war crimes. I did and you responded because you can't keep your little pugnacious pretentious *** fingers off a keyboard for 5 minutes without trying to smack a kufi, as you put it. Say it's a joke all you want, but your attitude and behavior reflect that statement.

Where did I rage at anyone? Because I typed a curse word? Man, perspective is everything and it's hard to know peoples intent on the internet. You see what ever it is you want to see. And because my view points don't fit your world view, you think I'm raging. Which is funny because I never even called anyone a name in here. Referred to them as sheep or sleep. That was other folk.

You do this **** to anyone who disagrees with you in this thread. If they are radical, anarchist, conservative etc. If they have a vew that's different than Rusty's watch out because he's coming for the kufi! But just look at every thread you post in, it's all arguments. This is what you do. So whom is the aggressor? Whom is the "adult" (whatever that bs means)? Whom is pugnacious?


Don't bother replying. You'll be the first person I've blocked since I've been on NT since it's inception in 99'. What a feather in the cap for you.

700
 
[thread="509493"]<a data-huddler-embed="href" href="https://niketalk.com/members/37977" style="display:inline-block;">@Ben Roethlisberger</a>
 I like your posts. Keep them coming.[/thread]
[thread="509493"] [/thread]
[thread="509493"]<a data-huddler-embed="href" href="https://niketalk.com/members/38560" style="display:inline-block;">@Rusty Shackelford</a>
 I respect your right to an opinion.[/thread]
[thread="509493"] [/thread]
[thread="509493"]Thats my take lol.[/thread]
[thread="509493"] [/thread]
[thread="509493"]I don't want anyone to feel silenced.[/thread]

I thought all I did was troll progressives 8o :lol
 
I thought all I did was troll progressives 8o :lol
Thats correct. Its clear your can't help yourself either.:rollin

You have yet to provide any examples to this claim doe.

Many claims without evidence, hmmm, sounds like trolling to me 8o :lol

-But in case you missed some of my previous example on the minimum wage, I'm in favor of it being raised to 10-12ish, tie it to inflation or the CPI, payroll taxes being cut and uncapped, and the EIC being drastically bumped up. That way lower class people can get the income bump, the burden to pay for it falls on more people, and you avoid less of the possible negative consequences that might occur.
 
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I'm relaxed, and you're a liar. You keep referring to the lie that you only wrote "one line". But you actually wrote around 5 lines where you clearly only picked the accused war crimes that could be argued and then edited it. You know and I know that you edited it. I saw it and replied quickly, but didn't quote you. Like I said, you are more concerned with being correct and remaining on your self perpetuated high horse than you are with truth and understanding. Which is exactly the behavior of someone whom is admittedly pugnacious.

Because of that lie, your accusation of me being the aggressor is 100% grade A bologna. I purposely avoid talking to you because I know it leads no where but with me sitting on my *** on the computer arguing all day. That's your arena, and a waste of my time.

I brought up war crimes. Someone asked me to provide links to said war crimes. I did and you responded because you can't keep your little pugnacious pretentious *** fingers off a keyboard for 5 minutes without trying to smack a kufi, as you put it. Say it's a joke all you want, but your attitude and behavior reflect that statement.

Where did I rage at anyone? Because I typed a curse word? Man, perspective is everything and it's hard to know peoples intent on the internet. You see what ever it is you want to see. And because my view points don't fit your world view, you think I'm raging. Which is funny because I never even called anyone a name in here. Referred to them as sheep or sleep. That was other folk.

You do this **** to anyone who disagrees with you in this thread. If they are radical, anarchist, conservative etc. If they have a vew that's different than Rusty's watch out because he's coming for the kufi! But just look at every thread you post in, it's all arguments. This is what you do. So whom is the aggressor? Whom is the "adult" (whatever that bs means)? Whom is pugnacious?


Don't bother replying. You'll be the first person I've blocked since I've been on NT since it's inception in 99'. What a feather in the cap for you.

700
I don't remember the last time you posted more than 20 of your own words. You've been piggy backing other posters and articles in here he whole time.
 
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