Official Reebok Kamikaze II Thread AKA "Reignmans"

[midd44]

.... To this day, Allen Iverson remains the most relevant player they had with Shaq a few feet behind. Shawn Kemp,Glen Robinson and Van Exle are not that relevant because their careers didn't end good and they had issues...... Anyways, most of the players are ONLY relatable to kids that grew up in the 80's and early 90's.

while a see your point & agree with your overall statements, i politely disagree with a couple of things ......

.......AI had ALOT of issues and his career ended worst than Kemp, Robinson, Van Exel

.......Penny Hardaway, Scottie Pippen, Gary Payton probably fall into the same category as ONLY relatable to kids who grew up in the 80s & 90s and those guys had their shoes rereleased. 

.....guess i just miss the old days when Reebok actually tried to compete with Nike.

 

[dc30]

midd44
Penny, Scottie, and The Glove were all Nike guys, so it's not really relevant to compare how 2 different companies chose to release sig models. More of their staple sig shoes hit a little later in the 90's when Nike was growing faster than Reebok. And issues or not, all 3 players were arguably more popular than the Reebok guys except for Shaq. At least from what I recall (I'm 36 btw.)

 

[trentbg]

They are only more popular because Nike made them more popular, just think about it, if they were with Reebok at the time, their shoes would not be even retro-ed now. 

 

[dc30]

They are only more popular because Nike made them more popular, just think about it, if they were with Reebok at the time, their shoes would not be even retro-ed now. 

You can definitely make that argument, but it also deflates the argument comparing the Reebok/Nike athletes from above.

 

[trentbg]

I personally always liked more Shaq, Kemp and AI, form the Nike athletes probably Penny was my favorite, the rest for me were OK. So again to each their own, my favorite players just happen to be under Reebok contract. 

 

[dc30]

I get that I'm just saying in contrast to the guy who stated above the different players/popularity...if Nike made them popular in regards to Reebok, it makes it hard to argue because if that's the case Nike will always win out that's all. I liked Shaq, Pippen, Kemp, Malone (LA Gear Catapult...remember those???) Tim Hardaway, Mourning, and LJ to name a few. Nothing to do with their contracts though as we have Nike, Reebok, LA Gear, and Converse repped here. I HATED HATED AI back in the day. Just a thug as the face of the NBA. I have come to respect him as a player, but when he was playing...NOT a fan.

 

[trentbg]

I absolutely agree with you on the AI situation, when he joined back in 96, I was not a fan at all, in fact all the new stile that he introduced, and I am talking about visual appearance, was not and still is not my thing, I think that this ultimately turned me away from the game for many, many years. Tattoos, breads, sleeves all kinda pointless and thug like accessories that we see more and more today started with him, the only person before him was Rodman, but he was a whole another story, AI just made all that main steam and fashioned, didnt like that one bit. Now when we talk about his game, that was something I can admire and love even today. 

As for the rest, I liked many other players regardless of the shoes they were rocking, that was one of the best things back in the day, no one really cared, all kicks looked cool and attractive to us kids, BK, Converse, Avia even, those were the days I could name every single player from the starting 5, from every singe team of the NBA. Now is not the same, Nike dominates and Adidas and UA are trying hard not to plundge and vanish. 

 

[lildwell]

I get that I'm just saying in contrast to the guy who stated above the different players/popularity...if Nike made them popular in regards to Reebok, it makes it hard to argue because if that's the case Nike will always win out that's all. I liked Shaq, Pippen, Kemp, Malone (LA Gear Catapult...remember those???) Tim Hardaway, Mourning, and LJ to name a few. Nothing to do with their contracts though as we have Nike, Reebok, LA Gear, and Converse repped here. I HATED HATED AI back in the day. Just a thug as the face of the NBA. I have come to respect him as a player, but when he was playing...NOT a fan.

Personally, I believe that if you market it right the younger kids would follow. Remember the job they did with the Shaq attaq 1? Shaw's value tanked because he went the Payless route. It used to be embarrassing to say you wore a pair of Shaqs. That is the best job of advertising they've ever done. I'm one of those kids you are talking about and I school my peers on this stuff all the time. I also grew up in Memphis Tn which is deep Nike territory. They could sell this stuff if they had better marketing. Nike makes shoes sell that nobody knows about. I haven't met a single person my age that remember Andre Agassi. Yet when his shoes first dropped, they sold out. Marketing was superb. As far as AI is concerned, I don't like him because of his practice speech. I don't mind the tattoos or braids or any of that. You simply have to practice.

 

[midd44]

@midd44
Penny, Scottie, and The Glove were all Nike guys, so it's not really relevant to compare how 2 different companies chose to release sig models.

i now know i didnt state my point of view as well as i should have & i'm certainly NOT looking to get into an argument.....  

i did think it was relevant comparing the Nike vs Reebok guys because Nike successfully marketed less popular players. Nike can market ANYONE

my point was: i think with the right marketing plan any shoe could be brought back.... it didn't have to be a superstar's shoe. that's why i mentioned the Nike players. those Nike guys were great players but NOT popular: Penny was, but not Pippen & Payton outside of their home areas. there was NO ONE less popular than Pippen after he refused to go back in for the final play, yet here we are today seeing another of his shoes released. 

i'm MUCH older than you so you'll have to take my word for it but Pippen, Payton, Hardaway were NOWHERE near as popular as Shawn Kemp!!! Kemp was a "must see" because he did stuff no one other than Dominque could attempt. Everyone, high school, college  pros can do ridiculous dunks now, but back then NO ONE could top the Reinman!!! i'm a Celts fan, but i ALWAYS searched out when Kemp was on tv. you watched because you knew you could see something you'd never seen before.  

 

[dc30]

midd44

No argument at all just throwing stuff out there in a discussion. And to the marketing...yes Nike is great at it. But I was watching the NBA in 87ish maybe? So even if you are MUCH older than my 36...doesn't mean I wasn't paying attention...I saw tons of Shawn Kemp, Scottie Pippen, Gary Payton, T Hardaway, A Hardaway, Miner, Baker, Augmon, Van Exel, Cassell, etc...hell I was even AT the Nets game Shaq's rookie year where he took the entire backboard down. You know back when Derrick Coleman was supposed to save that franchise. I even remember Andre Agassi, his stupid long hair and Brooke Shields. So before you continue to keep saying your age is your experience and we all remember nothing...remember we all grew up different.

 

[midd44]

@midd44

So before you continue to keep saying your age is your experience and we all remember nothing...remember we all grew up different.

... it was NEVER my intention to come across as saying "we all remember nothing"... in fact, it's just the opposite. in the couple years i've been on NikeTalk, i've learned ALOT from this forum.... and i continue to keep learning.

i just thought because you said that "all 3 players  {Pippen, Penny, GP} were arguably more popular than the Reebok guys {Kemp, Robinson}" that maybe you were too young to remember the Seattle Kemp {not the Cavs Kemp} or how hyped Glen Robinson was coming out of Purdue..... that's all

... and for the record, i have you by 20 years ;-) 

 

[midd44]

Aug 27th  at Reebok.com

 

[dc30]

... it was NEVER my intention to come across as saying "we all remember nothing"... in fact, it's just the opposite. in the couple years i've been on NikeTalk, i've learned ALOT from this forum.... and i continue to keep learning.

i just thought because you said that "all 3 players  {Pippen, Penny, GP} were arguably more popular than the Reebok guys {Kemp, Robinson}" that maybe you were too young to remember the Seattle Kemp {not the Cavs Kemp} or how hyped Glen Robinson was coming out of Purdue..... that's all... and for the record, i have you by 20 years ;-) 

Yes and no, but at this point I see what you're saying and I'm pretty sure you see what I'm saying...NOW...looking back...(I'm just throwing this out there for the sake of fun) how would you debate the popularity or legacy, if you will, of the handful of mentioned players now... Irregardless of sneaker brand contract...Pip, GP, the Reignman, Robinson, Penny, AI, Robinson...at the time, there was MUCH hype around a bevy of those names mentioned, and some not. But now that those careers are over I would have to say guys like Pippen and GP left more of a lasting imprint on fans and the league than some of the others. AI of course is there as well but he was as good as he was hyped to be anyhow lol. Now this is all my opinion of course, based solely on what I remember from back then, to how some of these guys are perceived now. Could be championships, playing for generally more popular teams, or just being good over a prolonged career on different teams. For instance GP played with Kemp on the Sonics, then Bucks, Lakers, Celts, and Heat having won his lone chip with them. But he sustained himself fairly well over a 17 year career, finally hitting the Hall of Fame. But then Kemp, over his 14 years...you almost don't consider him after playing with the Sonics...Cavs, Blazers, and Magic are not for consideration...just kind of faded out...which is a damn shame.

Well anyway, just some interesting stuff to look back over careers and how they changed and how the popularity changed over time as well.

 

[dc30]

Aug 27th  at Reebok.com

Any idea if things are excluded?

 

[midd44]

Any idea if things are excluded?

here's the disclaimer at the bottom of the email...
[table][tr][td]*Offer valid 12 PM EST through12 AM EST. Offer excludes items with $.98 price endings, custom shoes and gift cards. Apply code SAVENOW at checkout. Free ground shipping offer on orders of $49 or more valid to U.S. addresses only. All offers valid on domestic U.S. orders only. REEBOK is a registered trademark of Reebok International Limited [/td][/tr][/table]

 

[vood99]

dc30 & midd44 , I think the key thing here (and I hope we can all agree on this), is that Nike/JB do a damn good job at keeping their product and brand relevant regardless of the athlete associated with the product.

The sneaker craze is tapering off and there will be casualties among some brands but Nike/JB will be around.

 

[midd44]

Yes and no, but at this point I see what you're saying and I'm pretty sure you see what I'm saying...NOW...looking back...(I'm just throwing this out there for the sake of fun) how would you debate the popularity or legacy, if you will, of the handful of mentioned players now... Irregardless of sneaker brand contract...Pip, GP, the Reignman, Robinson, Penny, AI, Robinson...at the time, there was MUCH hype around a bevy of those names mentioned, and some not. But now that those careers are over I would have to say guys like Pippen and GP left more of a lasting imprint on fans and the league than some of the others. AI of course is there as well but he was as good as he was hyped to be anyhow lol. Now this is all my opinion of course, based solely on what I remember from back then, to how some of these guys are perceived now. Could be championships, playing for generally more popular teams, or just being good over a prolonged career on different teams. For instance GP played with Kemp on the Sonics, then Bucks, Lakers, Celts, and Heat having won his lone chip with them. But he sustained himself fairly well over a 17 year career, finally hitting the Hal
 

i do see your point of view.... and for the sake of fun...

my opinion: the easy call is Iverson as the best of all that were mentioned. Pippen may be in the NBA Top 50 Greatest, but i see that as more of a byproduct of playing with MJ. when Pippen had his chance to take over when MJ left, he never did. much easier to be a second banana than to be the main man. Scottie was never the "main" man, AI always was... AI over Pippen every time. i'm NOT a Pippen hater. he's a true HoF'er, world champ and was a GREAT player. 

side by side comparison:

All Star Games:              SC 7x  AI 11x

MVP All Star Game:       SC 1x  AI 2x

All NBA 1st Team:          SC 3x  AI 3x

All NBA 2nd Team          SC 2x  AI 3x

All NBA 3rd Team           SC 2x  AI 1x

All Defensive 1st Team   SC 8x  AI 0x

All Defensive 2nd Team  SC 2x  AI 0x 

NBA MVP                        SC 0x  AI 1x

NBA RoY                         SC 0x  AI 1x

Pippen was great, but not not All Time Top 50 great. playing with MJ absolutely helped not only his career, but how is is perceived nowadays. everyone loves a winner and Pippen was a winner.  on the other hand, AI was so controversial off the court that it still dogs him to this day. what do most people immediately remember AI for.... his "practice" press conference. when you think of Pippen, how many immediately think of him not going into a game for the final play or sitting out game 7 of the Conference Finals loss to the Pistons with a migrane? how many remember what was rumored to have caused the migrane? which is worse? what Pippen did or what AI did? if AI was a conformist and just went along, he's in the Top 50 Greatest.

 

[midd44]

@Dc30 & @midd44, I think the key thing here (and I hope we can all agree on this), is that Nike/JB do a damn good job at keeping their product and brand relevant regardless of the athlete associated with the product.

The sneaker craze is tapering off and there will be casualties among some brands but Nike/JB will be around.

totally agree....

"Nike/JB will be around"..... they will, but maybe not as dominating as they are now.

remember what Mark Cuban told the NFL 

"Just watch. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. When you try to take it too far, people turn the other way. I'm just telling you, when you've got a good thing and you get greedy, it always, always, always, always, always turns on you. That's rule No. 1 of business."

 

[dc30]

vood99
Yes. They do their best to cater to the right here and now moment keeping things relevant. I say it all the time, Nike is not an R&D company...it's a marketing firm at this point.

midd44
Agree totally, and I remember watching the game Scottie didn't go in for and I was mad thinking like "dude stop being a baby!" And of course you could argue a players legacy by on court only? Or on and off court? I like BOTH discussions just because it's fun to do but at the end of the day I think the on court is hands down more important.

 

[midd44]

@vood99
Nike is not an R&D company...it's a marketing firm at this point.

@midd44
but at the end of the day I think the on court is hands down more important.

yep & yep

aside: is that a Les Paul in the avatar?

 

[lildwell]

Wait a minute. Pippens don't sell guys. So cross him out. The only reason the gloves sold is because of how long they waited to retro them and the massive and long add campaign. It was majorly hyped and still sat for a minute. That's with their small gr numbers. Personally I think the smaller brands should take note of what Sketchers are doing.

 

[dc30]

yep & yep


aside: is that a Les Paul in the avatar?

It's an ESP Truckster. James Hetfield model. However I sold that one a while ago for his white Iron Cross. Love what Les Paul's stand for, just not comfortable for me. I use ESP Eliclipse's mostly. Good eye though...

 

[midd44]

Wait a minute. Pippens don't sell guys. So cross him out. The only reason the gloves sold is because of how long they waited to retro them and the massive and long add campaign. It was majorly hyped and still sat for a minute. That's with their small gr numbers. Personally I think the smaller brands should take note of what Sketchers are doing.

i dont like Nike, so i dont follow them closely. Weartesters had this on Aug 24th....

"The Nike  Air Pippen 1 is back in Black/ Red and they sold out when they released online at JimmyJazz. Now you have another chance to grab them online before they’re gone by heading over to ShoePalace.com. "

i do agree with you about keeping an eye on Sketchers. i was shocked to read this:

"In 2014, Skechers hit record sales of $2.4 billion and shares more than doubled in the past year alone, prompting Morgan Stanley analysts to predict it could position itself behind Nike as the number two footwear brand in America." 

 

[lildwell]

i dont like Nike, so i dont follow them closely. Weartesters had this on Aug 24th....

"The Nike

 Air Pippen 1 is back in Black/ Red and they sold out when they released online at JimmyJazz. Now you have another chance to grab them online before they’re gone by heading over to ShoePalace.com
. "


i do agree with you about keeping an eye on Sketchers. i was shocked to read this:

"In 2014, Skechers hit record sales of $2.4 billion and shares more than doubled in the past year alone, prompting Morgan Stanley analysts to predict it could position itself behind Nike as the number two footwear brand in America." 

Historically Pippens always hit sells racks. Also, I'm in the Pippens thread. They are doing a slow leak release. They've been out in a handfull of stores around the country for about two months now and Ruvilla has the whitesin stock for longer. They are also sitting in the actual retail locations. Nike is doing a slow leak release to generate hype by making it look like they are flying off shelves when in reality, I doubt that they had more that a handful of shoes online and it still took a minute to sell out. Its all clever marketing. Sketchers has already taken over 2nd place in the 2nd or third quarter this year behind Nike while Adidas slipped.

 

[trentbg]

 
i now know i didnt state my point of view as well as i should have & i'm certainly NOT looking to get into an argument.....  

i did think it was relevant comparing the Nike vs Reebok guys because Nike successfully marketed less popular players. Nike can market ANYONE

my point was: i think with the right marketing plan any shoe could be brought back.... it didn't have to be a superstar's shoe. that's why i mentioned the Nike players. those Nike guys were great players but NOT popular: Penny was, but not Pippen & Payton outside of their home areas. there was NO ONE less popular than Pippen after he refused to go back in for the final play, yet here we are today seeing another of his shoes released. 

i'm MUCH older than you so you'll have to take my word for it but Pippen, Payton, Hardaway were NOWHERE near as popular as Shawn Kemp!!! Kemp was a "must see" because he did stuff no one other than Dominque could attempt. Everyone, high school, college  pros can do ridiculous dunks now, but back then NO ONE could top the Reinman!!! i'm a Celts fan, but i ALWAYS searched out when Kemp was on tv. you watched because you knew you could see something you'd never seen before.  

I second that, Kemp in his Sonics years was something unique, watching him play was like watching magic happening, he was crashing it and no one could stop him, I liked him so much since the day he joined the association straight from high school. No one ever left a bigger impression in my childhood than Kemp and Shaq, both were amazing on their own way and they will always be in my dream imaginary team, to add to that both had the best basketball shoes Reebok ever created.