Official Umar Johnson Thread

[deusavertat]

It kind of is tho.

I'm critical of the black church, but I'm honest about the fact they older relatives don't really socialize or hang out outside of the church because that was the only social gathering allowed back in their times.


Honestly we do need to reject a lot of the socializing from the black church, but before we do that we need a suitable replacement.

So many more productive replacements are available for black people

Professional organizations/fraternities
Book clubs
Black country clubs
Organizations for common interests (art, movies, sneakers, fashion)
The barbershop
Clubs for political and social activism, no matter the scale
Volunteering

There are many ways to get a sense of community outside the church.

 

[Grine]

Christianity
I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent' I Timothy 2:12.


Islam
According to the Quran, 'Men are the maintainers (or in charge) of women. So the good women are obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded. And (as to) those whose part you fear desertion, admonish them and leave them alone in their beds and chastise them. So if they obey you, seek not a way against them.' (Quran 5:34).

Hinduism
Many Hindu religious texts describe women as deceitful and sexually provocative by nature. The following quote from the Devi Bhagaveta (1.5.83) is typical. 'A woman is the embodiment of rashness and a mine of vices. she is an obstacle to the path of devotion, a hindrance to emancipation. she is practically a sorceress and represents vile desire.'

Buddhism
According to Buddhist tradition, the Buddha's stepmother wished to become a nun. She expressed this wish to the Buddha several times and each time she was refused. Finally, on the advice of one of his disciples, he acquiesced. But even as he did so, the Buddha claimed that establishing a community of nuns would reduce the time in which his teaching (the dharma) would be effective from 1,000 to 500 years.

Judaism
One of the morning blessings made by an Orthodox Jewish male: 'Blessed are you Lord our God, King of the Universe, who has not made me a woman.'


See the above text? That's why I can do it. I've read it, and it is wrong.

What, you want climb up on the backs of Black women, then leave them behind after you reach the top, telling them to hold themselves accountable?

Kevin Samuels isn't doing anything but offering up that bootstrap nonsense that all other preachers offer, all while asking for funds to fix the ever leaking church roof.

As it relates to women in Islam. It seems you’re picking only contexts to prove your argument.

You yet to post the Quran, Sunnah and Hadith supporting/protecting women on a higher pedestal than men.

Do you practice Islam or even study all the contexts and it’s climate?

"Do not annoy women as to make their lives miserable." (Qur'an 65:6)

Prophet Muhammad said: "Only an honorable man treat women with honor and integrity. And only a mean, deceitful and dishonest man humiliates and insults women."

Prophet Muhammad rightly said, "Heaven is under the feet of your mothers,"

O you who believe! You are forbidden
to inherit women against their will.
Nor should you treat them with harshness,
that you may take away part of the dowry
you have given them - except when
they have become guilty of open lewdness.
On the contrary live with them
on a footing of kindness and equity.
If you take a dislike to them,
it may be that you dislike something
and Allah will bring about through it
a great deal of good. (4:19)

The Prophet wanted to put a stop to all cruelties to women. He preached kindness towards them. He told the Muslims: "Fear Allah in respect of women." And: "The best of you are they who behave best to their wives."And: "A Muslim must not hate his wife, and if he be displeased with one bad quality in her, let him be pleased with one that is good." And:"The more civil and kind a Muslim is to his wife, the more perfect in faith he is."

 

[kingfoamnyc]

I see you fam!

Man's was dropping BARS

 

[KHUFU]

As it relates to women in Islam. It seems you’re picking only context to prove your argument.

You yet to post the Sunnah and Hadith putting and supporting women on a higher pedestal than men.

Do you practice Islam or even study all the contexts?

"Do not annoy women as to make their lives miserable." (Qur'an 65:6)

Prophet Muhammad said: "Only an honorable man treat women with honor and integrity. And only a mean, deceitful and dishonest man humiliates and insults women."

Prophet Muhammad rightly said, "Heaven is under the feet of your mothers,"

O you who believe! You are forbidden
to inherit women against their will.
Nor should you treat them with harshness,
that you may take away part of the dowry
you have given them - except when
they have become guilty of open lewdness.
On the contrary live with them
on a footing of kindness and equity.
If you take a dislike to them,
it may be that you dislike something
and Allah will bring about through it
a great deal of good. (4:19)

I also left out the how women are beheaded if they are caught, or have known to have slept with married men. I could also post the articles from women, those who have left Islam, then being threatened with death because they did leave the faith.

The point was to show that women are indeed treated as second class citizens, in those beliefs posted above.

Women are not being elevated, if they are also being told to know their place.

 

[Grine]

I also left out the how women are beheaded if they are caught, or have known to have slept with married men. I could also post the articles from women, those who have left Islam, then being threatened with death because they did leave the faith.

The point was to show that women are indeed treated as second class citizens, in those beliefs posted above.

Women are not being elevated, if they are also being told to know their place.

And you’re speaking from a narrative of extremist. That’s goes against any religion/society/culture.

Misinterpretations and malpractice of many things does not represent Islam as a whole.

Its no better than white people who say “All Black people are lazy and thugs. Steal and loot.” Concluding this based on actions of the minority. It does not represent the Black community as a whole.

Every masjid I’ve attended, the Islamic community always speak on uplifting and taking care of women. Through our actions of kindness, faithfulness, financial, etc. So I totally disagree with you because that’s not what Islam teaches. Islam does not teach women to be treated as 2nd citizen - individuals chooses to do that - especially extremist who misinterprets the understanding and context. Almost similar to what you’re doing.

 

[deusavertat]

I also left out the how women are beheaded if they are caught, or have known to have slept with married men. I could also post the articles from women, those who have left Islam, then being threatened with death because they did leave the faith.

The point was to show that women are indeed treated as second class citizens, in those beliefs posted above.

Women are not being elevated, if they are also being told to know their place.

The problem with the Bible and the Koran is it constantly contradicts itself. If there weren't so many sexist and misogynistic laws in the Bible and Koran MEN wouldn't use it as a justification.

For instance thou shall not kill is a commandment. But as we know there are countless incidences in the Judeochristian texts where God and his "prophets" sanctioned murder and atrocities.

When you point this out to religious people they talk about "context".

 

[wr]

The problem with the Bible and the Koran is it constantly contradicts itself. If there weren't so many sexist and misogynistic laws in the Bible and Koran MEN wouldn't use it as a justification.

For instance thou shall not kill is a commandment. But as we know there are countless incidences in the Judeochristian texts wete God and his "prophets" sanctioned murder and atrocities.

When you point this out to religious people they talk about "context".

People need to understand that there is something for everyone in those books. It's more important to read the book with good intentions and a good heart than to follow it word for word.

If you read the book in search of peace that is what you will find.

If you are looking for justification to beat your wife you can find it there too.

Depends on the user.

 

[Grine]

The problem with the Bible and the Koran is it constantly contradicts itself. If there weren't so many sexist and misogynistic laws in the Bible and Koran MEN wouldn't use it as a justification.

For instance thou shall not kill is a commandment. But as we know there are countless incidences in the Judeochristian texts wete God and his "prophets" sanctioned murder and atrocities.

When you point this out to religious people they talk about "context".

Clearly you’re not well versed to understand the History and Climate during these times. You’re relying on one source and clearly you’re not a scholar. Theologians like my parents would definitely argue your ignorance and lack of knowledge not only about the Torah, Gospels and the Koran but the factual history during that time.

So technically you don’t know the “context”.

 

[KHUFU]

And you’re speaking from a narrative of extremist. That’s goes against any religion/society/culture.

Misinterpretations and malpractice of many things does not represent Islam as a whole.

Its no better than white people who say “All Black people are lazy and thugs. Steal and loot.” Concluding this based on actions of the minority. It does not represent the Black community as a whole.

Every masjid I’ve attended, the Islamic community always speak on uplifting and taking care of women. Through our actions of kindness, faithfulness, financial, etc. So I totally disagree with you because that’s not what Islam teaches. Islam does not teach women to be treated as 2nd citizen - individuals chooses to do that - especially extremist who misinterprets the understanding and context. Almost similar to what you’re doing.

Not every muslim country practices the same, and the narrative that all are not as sexist as other countries and their practices, does not mean that they are not still sexist.

Why are muslim women required to wear hijab?

Should they not be able to wear what they want to wear?

In this question, Islam does not teach the upliftment of women.

 

[KHUFU]

People need to understand that there is something for everyone in those books. It's more important to read the book with good intentions and a good heart than to follow it word for word.

If you read the book in search of peace that is what you will find.

If you are looking for justification to beat your wife you can find it there too.

Depends on the user.

Why not simply throw those books out? Why are they needed?

 

[tomdiginson]

IMHO the only reason you have the luxury of focusing on "Abrahamic" this and "Misogyny" that is because you are so far away from the boots on the ground.

You yourself have spoken of having personal relationships with women who are worth millions, while being married to Claire Huxtable, and living like Cliff.

You're trying to bring Cosby Show problems to Good Times where most of us live.

I could even meet you at the Jefferson's because at least they started off poor.

If "Christianity" / the Church can help provide structure to our families or help people make better choices then who are you to crap on that from your Ebony tower?

If Kevin Samuels content can help Black People become closer and more accountable for our decisions then who are you to shut him down while offering nothing in return?

Gotta be able to read the room my Brother.

Your views are way too far from the actual problems most of us face.

Talking about advanced Mathematical analysis and Calculus to a people that cant even add...then calling us dummies.

Just saying that you can trace your history back to Africa is a slap in the face to 99% of the people here in the United States that came by way of misery and a suffering.

Reminds me of Africans who come here dissing Black people.

We lost out here and Samuels is at least providing content that's supported by facts. Whether you like him or not - the numbers aint lying.

You got a map to salvation then grab your glasses, your favorite drink, Chelsea boots, go on YouTube, and share the plug Fam!

Bashing Black men aint the solution is all I'm saying.

Black men aren't the problem.

Black women aren't the problem.

LIES are the problem!

You preaching my guy.

 

[WASHED KING]

.....thread will be locked soon

Hope not. Seems like actual discussion going on in here. At least that’s what I got from the last 2 pages.

The other thread that must not be named was a whole different story.

 

[Kinfolk]

.....thread will be locked soon

Locked for what?

Somebody make a new Kevin Samuels Thread but call it the “Youtubian Beta Male Thread” or something.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Me checking on what has been happening in here...

 

[Grine]

We don’t just follow the Qu’ran, we follow the Sunah and Hadith (which are other books).

 

[KHUFU]

We don’t just follow the Qu’ran, we follow the Sunah and Hadith (which are other books).

I mean no disrespect to you. But why aren't the women allowed to believe as they wish? Why are they NOT offered a GODDESS to look toward and worship? Would that not be more appropriate for women to learn to be like?

One of my favorite Goddess's is Bast. She is not of the Abrahamic belief, but what is wrong with women following her example, worshipping her as opposed to a male deity?

 

[Grine]

I mean no disrespect to you. But why aren't the women allowed to believe as they wish? Why are they NOT offered a GODDESS to look toward and worship? Would that not be more appropriate for women to learn to be like?

One of my favorite Goddess's is Bast. She is not of the Abrahamic belief, but what is wrong with women following her example, worshipping her as opposed to a male deity?

Women are allowed to believe whatever they want. I personally don’t enforce my belief onto my daughter nor Islam teaches us to do so.

But, who said Allah was a male deity?

 

[KHUFU]

Women are allowed to believe whatever they want. I personally don’t enforce my belief onto my daughter nor Islam teaches us to do so.

But, who said Allah was a male deity?

He is a man, and his name is also Yaweh. He is also the god of abraham.

 

[KHUFU]

Women are allowed to believe whatever they want. I personally don’t enforce my belief onto my daughter nor Islam teaches us to do so.

But, who said Allah was a male deity?

It's cool that you do not force your daughter to believe as you do, but many do indeed force women and their children to believe under the rule of man. If we are to listen to Samuels, then you know where he stands in regard to women, Black women in particular.

Here in america women have the freedom to believe as they wish, and that is because the law oppresses them already.

Mind you, I am not criticizing you.

If Black women began to worship a goddess like Bast or Sekhmet, or white women worshipping goddess's like Freyja?

Men would have an awfully hard time controlling them.

 

[Grine]

He is a man, and his name is also Yaweh. He is also the god of abraham.

In a Hebrew context, it’s both masculine and feminine. As my parents try to explain it, the actual name “Yahweh” contextually is broken down by both gender.

 

[deusavertat]

People need to understand that there is something for everyone in those books. It's more important to read the book with good intentions and a good heart than to follow it word for word.

If you read the book in search of peace that is what you will find.

If you are looking for justification to beat your wife you can find it there too.

Depends on the user.

Exactly and many of those "users" are similar to the evil men who wrote those texts and tried pass them off as being god's word. With that being said there are brutal acts of sexism and violence in those texts that are blatant no matter how much religious people try to paint them as being "allegories".

 

[Grine]

It's cool that you do not force your daughter to believe as you do, but many do indeed force women and their children to believe under the rule of man.

Here in america women have the freedom to believe as they wish, and that is because the law oppresses them already.

Mind you, I am not criticizing you.

I know.

I’m not taking it as criticizing towards me, just wanting to make clarity of what being said.

As you stated, in some Islamic/Communist countries, choice of religion practice isn’t an option. Totally agree.

However, as many households, religion is taught - usually if you have an Islamic, Christians, Jewish, etc parents, they’re most likely going to govern their home upon their religious practice.

Where it gets tricky, when you have family’s where the parents are two different religion. Like my best friend is a NOI and his wife a southern Baptist Christian. I have a Muslim friend who’s married to someone who’s a Buddhist. They both said the same, the child has a choice.

We have to remember Western Christians/Muslims are very different and practice differently than the rest of the world. We, as US citizens, have the luxury and privilege to decide based on our laws.

 

[KHUFU]

In a Hebrew context, it’s both masculine and feminine. As my parents try to explain it, the actual name “Yahweh” contextually is broken down by both gender.

The perfect man is supposed to inhabit both the male and female energies, but the difference is that only women can bear children. There was indeed a time when women could reproduce by themselves.

In other spiritual traditions, when we speak of male and female energy, we are actually discussing the feminine side for which we are not born with, of which men are supposed to evolve toward, in order to become our higher selves.

Also through the abrahamic beliefs, women were eliminated from the holy trinity, in order to control how the creator is viewed. The goddess was regulated to non existence.

 

[KHUFU]

I know.

I’m not taking it as criticizing towards me, just wanting to make clarity of what being said.

As you stated, in some Islamic/Communist countries, choice of religion practice isn’t an option. Totally agree.

However, as many households, religion is taught - usually if you have an Islamic, Christians, Jewish, etc parents, they’re most likely going to govern their home upon their religious practice.

Where it gets tricky, when you have family’s where the parents are two different religion. Like my best friend is a NOI and his wife a southern Baptist Christian. I have a Muslim friend who’s married to someone who’s a Buddhist. They both said the same, the child has a choice.

We have to remember Western Christians/Muslims are very different and practice differently than the rest of the world. We, as US citizens, have the luxury and privilege to decide based on our laws.

Oh I know this in regard to mix religion relationships. it can indeed get crazy. One of my associates is Jewish, and his wife is an Irish Catholic. You wanna talk fireworks?

She comes to me to talk about how Jewish he is, and she always wound up pregnant after a fight.

They have six kids, all boys, and they continuously fought over the boys being jewish or catholic.

As of this point, they are jewish.

 

[KHUFU]

I’d avoid any real convos with him. I was prepared to dog walk him one day but once it was pointed out he had a mental illness I let off the gas.

Just to put into context, he promotes an LGBTQ lifestyle yet his religion requires that someone profess a negative confession concerning homosexuality so they can make it to heaven.

He pushes his woman are ya ya sister-god mantras yet doesn’t acknowledge at the core of his “religion” it is 100000% patriarchal.

He pretty much ignores all universal laws regarding gender to advance his agenda

etc

The type of cognitive dissonance required to make those leaps could only be a product of clinical mental instability.

Ahhh the jew hating homophobe arrives.

Tell me, what is my religion?