Palestine vs Israel.. VERY sad pictures. some (Graphic).

[mideastbeast]

Originally Posted by NikeTalker23

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

NikeTalker23 wrote:

---

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Originally Posted by NikeTalker23

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Originally Posted by Toy Collector123

Originally Posted by Lrrr

im confused as to why the US is funding them..can someone explain?

These people own Congress.

http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/

This ain't no conspiracy theory either.

No doubt Jewish lobby is extremely strong. Going to that website makes me sick.

Still, it's not that simple. Israel is just strategically perfect for the U.S to support.

Originally Posted by NikeTalker23

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/

This will catch you up on the Gaza situation.

If you want info on the overall history, use wikipedia and google or get books by respected historians. Just make sure it's a balanced source.

Still, no matter how you look at it, almost 800 dead, 2-3 thousand wounded, 30-40% women and children casualties vs a handful dead and injured tells you something.

Yeah it says Palestine needs a better military.

Hands down the stupidest thing i've read all day.

Why is it so stupid? War is war, no matter the reason behind it. The country with the more powerful military will better protect it's people and always come out on top. The only reason the numbers are so lobsided is because of Israel's military superiority. The only thing keeping Palestine from killing as many people as Israel, is their inferior military.

The whole point of the "war" , according to Israel and the U.S themselves is to stop Hamas. How would a stronger and better armed Hamas help the situation ? It would mean, as you just said, many dead Israelis and probably a larger conflict.

Who is responsible, (directly) for the massive amount of civilian deaths ? Obviously Israel. The blame therefore goes to Israel, not to hamas "for not protecting its people"

It's like defending a murderer by saying the victim was weak or should have been carrying a gun. It's 2009, goals are to stop war, not justify civilian slaughter with caveman type logic.

So I assume...

Native Americans should have had a better army ?
Kurds ?
Chinese civilians in WW2 ?

List goes on for pages.

I'm not justifying the killings on the part of Israel, but you can't post all these numbers and death tolls. Why? Because the only reason the numbers are so lopsided is because Palestine doesn't have the weapons to kill as many people as Israel has. If Palestine did, they would.

Why are we talking about hypotheticals ?

Israel is clearly out of line here. They are using their complete military superiority to kill hundreds of civilians. Back to the murder trial scenario, blame the killer.

If Hamas was killing hundreds of Israelis and losing a handful of fighters, I doubt you would be here saying "Oh well, Israel should have a better army".

First of all I'm not Jewish, nor was I born in the U.S. I have nothing against Palestinians either in case you think I do.But like I said I'm not trying to justify their killings, and I don't agree with the Israel is doing. But face it, and you know this is true. If Palestine had better weapons they would be using them. Sure it's a hypothetical but it's reality. Yeah the death toll makes it seem like Israel is doing all the attacking, but the fact is that Israel has better weapons that cause a lot more casualties. If two groups of people are having a gun fight, and group A is using small hand guns, while group B has the choice of using the same hand gun as group A or using or rocket launchers, what would they choose?



Point is, Israel is wrong for killing so many civilians can we agree on that atleast ?

IF Hamas had a strong military and killed hundreds of innocent Israeli's they would be wrong too, happy ?

Bottomline: It's unnacceptable and needs to stop.

 

[dey know yayo]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Originally Posted by Dey Know Yayo

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Originally Posted by Dey Know Yayo

Israel has the best military of the world aside from America's. How would Palestine ever get to that level? smh

MidEastBeast, what inherent strategic benefits does America receive in its continued support for Israel?

Basically, it acts like a giant check against anti-US interests in the area.

-Kept Iraq in check (bombed nuclear facilities)

-Keeps Iran in check (threatens military action, would likely take action if Iran is close to nukes)

-Keeps Iranian influence in check (attacks Hamas, Hezbollah and other groups with Iranian ties; dont forget Hezbollah attacked the U.S marine barracks in lebanon)

-Protects our oil interests (Can help protect Straights of Hormuz passageway)

-Provides us with intelligence

-Can provide us with airspace if we ever need it

-Keeps Egypt, Syria, Turkey and many other countries in check (they are all basically forced to follow U.S policy as seen by lack of action in this conflict)

-Keeps the above governments in power by actively fighting extremist elements that threaten them

Just off the top of my head, theres a lot more.

Iraq, Iran, all Anti-American contingencies exist because of our support of Israel. We don't support Israel to stave off those states, we stave off those states to support Israel.

It helps us tangentially with oil interests (we don't want oil, just want oil priced in our currency, which OPEC allows-- until soon maybe with its GCC) and airspace I guess, but we have a ridiculously disproportionate support for Israel if those are our interests in supporting it. The only real reason we support them is the unprecedented influence of the Jewish bloc.

Was the Jewish lobby really that strong going back to the 40's ?

jews have RUN the american banking system for years. the real question is, was the anti-american sentiment in arab states so strong in the 1940s? the obviousanswer is no. the variable was the ottomans losing in world war i and the UK feeling bad for jews after the holocaust.

 

[niketalker23]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Originally Posted by NikeTalker23

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

NikeTalker23 wrote:

---

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Originally Posted by NikeTalker23

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Originally Posted by Toy Collector123

Originally Posted by Lrrr

im confused as to why the US is funding them..can someone explain?

These people own Congress.

http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/http://www.aipac.org/

This ain't no conspiracy theory either.

No doubt Jewish lobby is extremely strong. Going to that website makes me sick.

Still, it's not that simple. Israel is just strategically perfect for the U.S to support.

Originally Posted by NikeTalker23

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/

This will catch you up on the Gaza situation.

If you want info on the overall history, use wikipedia and google or get books by respected historians. Just make sure it's a balanced source.

Still, no matter how you look at it, almost 800 dead, 2-3 thousand wounded, 30-40% women and children casualties vs a handful dead and injured tells you something.

Yeah it says Palestine needs a better military.

Hands down the stupidest thing i've read all day.

Why is it so stupid? War is war, no matter the reason behind it. The country with the more powerful military will better protect it's people and always come out on top. The only reason the numbers are so lobsided is because of Israel's military superiority. The only thing keeping Palestine from killing as many people as Israel, is their inferior military.

The whole point of the "war" , according to Israel and the U.S themselves is to stop Hamas. How would a stronger and better armed Hamas help the situation ? It would mean, as you just said, many dead Israelis and probably a larger conflict.

Who is responsible, (directly) for the massive amount of civilian deaths ? Obviously Israel. The blame therefore goes to Israel, not to hamas "for not protecting its people"

It's like defending a murderer by saying the victim was weak or should have been carrying a gun. It's 2009, goals are to stop war, not justify civilian slaughter with caveman type logic.

So I assume...

Native Americans should have had a better army ?
Kurds ?
Chinese civilians in WW2 ?

List goes on for pages.

I'm not justifying the killings on the part of Israel, but you can't post all these numbers and death tolls. Why? Because the only reason the numbers are so lopsided is because Palestine doesn't have the weapons to kill as many people as Israel has. If Palestine did, they would.

Why are we talking about hypotheticals ?

Israel is clearly out of line here. They are using their complete military superiority to kill hundreds of civilians. Back to the murder trial scenario, blame the killer.

If Hamas was killing hundreds of Israelis and losing a handful of fighters, I doubt you would be here saying "Oh well, Israel should have a better army".

First of all I'm not Jewish, nor was I born in the U.S. I have nothing against Palestinians either in case you think I do.But like I said I'm not trying to justify their killings, and I don't agree with the Israel is doing. But face it, and you know this is true. If Palestine had better weapons they would be using them. Sure it's a hypothetical but it's reality. Yeah the death toll makes it seem like Israel is doing all the attacking, but the fact is that Israel has better weapons that cause a lot more casualties. If two groups of people are having a gun fight, and group A is using small hand guns, while group B has the choice of using the same hand gun as group A or using or rocket launchers, what would they choose?

Point is, Israel is wrong for killing so many civilians can we agree on that atleast ?

IF Hamas had a strong military and killed hundreds of innocent Israeli's they would be wrong too, happy ?

Bottomline: It's unnacceptable and needs to stop.

Killing civilians is ALWAYS wrong period. So yes, Israel does need to stop. But will it? Probably not. Is it unfair and unjust? Yeah, but sadlythat's the world we live in.

 

[mideastbeast]

Originally Posted by Dey Know Yayo

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Originally Posted by Dey Know Yayo

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Originally Posted by Dey Know Yayo

Israel has the best military of the world aside from America's. How would Palestine ever get to that level? smh

MidEastBeast, what inherent strategic benefits does America receive in its continued support for Israel?

Basically, it acts like a giant check against anti-US interests in the area.

-Kept Iraq in check (bombed nuclear facilities)

-Keeps Iran in check (threatens military action, would likely take action if Iran is close to nukes)

-Keeps Iranian influence in check (attacks Hamas, Hezbollah and other groups with Iranian ties; dont forget Hezbollah attacked the U.S marine barracks in lebanon)

-Protects our oil interests (Can help protect Straights of Hormuz passageway)

-Provides us with intelligence

-Can provide us with airspace if we ever need it

-Keeps Egypt, Syria, Turkey and many other countries in check (they are all basically forced to follow U.S policy as seen by lack of action in this conflict)

-Keeps the above governments in power by actively fighting extremist elements that threaten them

Just off the top of my head, theres a lot more.

Iraq, Iran, all Anti-American contingencies exist because of our support of Israel. We don't support Israel to stave off those states, we stave off those states to support Israel.

It helps us tangentially with oil interests (we don't want oil, just want oil priced in our currency, which OPEC allows-- until soon maybe with its GCC) and airspace I guess, but we have a ridiculously disproportionate support for Israel if those are our interests in supporting it. The only real reason we support them is the unprecedented influence of the Jewish bloc.

Was the Jewish lobby really that strong going back to the 40's ?

jews have RUN the american banking system for years. the real question is, was the anti-american sentiment in arab states so strong in the 1940s? the obvious answer is no. the variable was the ottomans losing in world war i and the UK feeling bad for jews after the holocaust.

True, too bad we can't/don't want to start adressing the real roots of terrorism and extremism and instead go about "fighting it" and makingit even worse.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by NikeTalker23

Originally Posted by Dey Know Yayo

Israel has the best military of the world aside from America's. How would Palestine ever get to that level? smh

MidEastBeast, what inherent strategic benefits does America receive in its continued support for Israel?

Did I ever say they would? No. All I said was the number are all one sided because of Palestine's inferior military. If they had a stronger military the death toll would be a lot closer.

That's the last thing the Palestinians would want.
Israel would love for the Palestinians to have a standard and stronger military so they can fight in a more conventional way.

Just as an aside.
The west (the US specifically and most forcefully) does not only supports Israel because of the Jewish lobby but because they are of the same ilk.
What does the west have in common with the Arabs? Do they share a civilization? Language family? Much common history?

Israel was founded as a socialist democracy by Jews from Europe. There are few reasons for the West to support the Arabs. There is very little, if any, commonground between the cultures.

The fact is that the Arabs have sold out the Palestinians and use them as pawns for their own regional and geopolitical games.

Wealthy Jews use their money to buy support for Israel and other Jewish causes and wealthy Arabs use their money to build 'man made Islands' (thatcater to Westerners; which no one will give a !$*% about in 50 years time) , have thousand car garages (for no goodreason), and like to call themselves 'princes' and 'kings'.
Come on now.

 

[devildog1776]

Iran needs to nuke israel .... Yeah I said it... Get it over with already... All this back and forth is wack

 

[kickmatic23]

Originally Posted by devildog1776

Iran needs to nuke israel .... Yeah I said it... Get it over with already... All this back and forth is wack

you are ******ed

i would say something back.. but im not gonna sink to your level of stupidity

 

[dublbagn]

Its a sad day anyone dies.....and I hate to see a war, no less a war that is being engaged in a city......but we have a few things to face if we are going todiscuss this....and lets get some stuff out of the way...

1) Israel has a far great military (everyone knows this)
2) Hamas is fighting purposely within civilian territory....

The real question is why.....I think the reasons are two fold....Israel has an American backed military (for what ever reason you choose, Jewish support in thewest, American oil interests in the middle east, etc....)......Hamas cannot fight a conventional war due to its lack of military strength (and any group intheir position would not fight that way either), yet they still attack from inside the cities which conversely makes Isreal attack these military/civiliantargets.......Hamas gets a 2 fold benefit from this, they get the plus of surprise attacks from undefined locations, and when the Israelies retaliate Hamasgets to show how "horrible the jews are".....

Should Israel be condemned for retaliation????
Should Hamas fight in the open, and stop using children and women to to attack with suicide bombings?????
Should the US pull its support????
Should Israel just let the attacks happen, due to the fact that they have a superior military?????

Who is "owed" the land?????
Does the above question matter in this day and age?????

these are all things we need to find answers for before we point fingers and pass judgment.....Let me also say that my country does not even exist any more,the former Yugoslavia (which my family moved to due to our first home Albania also being dissolved) so dont think just because its 2009 and a black man ispresident of the United States that anything is any different from 100 or even 200 hundred years ago, my families situation is proof of that....

I would also like to propose this question......if the Palestinians are "owed" this land, and the Jewish contingent there "stole" it fromthem it would only be right for the land to be given back to its proper owners....but are you ready to leave your homes to give the land back to the NativeAmericans, and is Europe ready for the influx of displaced immigrants that fled do to WW1 and WW2, is Egypt ready for Jews to come reclaim their land, is Italyand Rome ready to apologies for all the land they took and people they killed, etc.......??????

my point is, that for thousands of years their have been emporors, dictators, kings and queens.......we still have Kings, Queens, Princes, Rulers, Dictatorsand now Presidents...what makes you think that things are not still the same as they have always been.....

People want power and will do what ever it takes to get it, that is why this is happening....Israel Vs. Palestine is only one move in the huge game.....

RIP to all that have died during this and all past tragedies.........

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by NikeTalker23

Dey Know Yayo wrote:

---

Israel has the best military of the world aside from America's. How would Palestine ever get to that level? smh




MidEastBeast, what inherent strategic benefits does America receive in its continued support for Israel?

Did I ever say they would? No. All I said was the number are all one sided because of Palestine's inferior military. If they had a stronger
military the death toll would be a lot closer.

That's the last thing the Palestinians would want.
Israel would love for the Palestinians to have a standard and stronger military so they can fight in a more conventional way.

Just as an aside.
The west (the US specifically and most forcefully) does not only supports Israel because of the Jewish lobby but because they are of the same ilk.
What does the west have in common with the Arabs? Do they share a civilization? Language family? Much common history?

Israel was founded as a socialist democracy by Jews from Europe. There are few reasons for the West to support the Arabs. There is very little, if any, common ground between the cultures.

The fact is that the Arabs have sold out the Palestinians and use them as pawns for their own regional and geopolitical games.

Wealthy Jews use their money to buy support for Israel and other Jewish causes and wealthy Arabs use their money to build 'man made Islands' (that cater to Westerners; which no one will give a !$*% about in 50 years time) , have thousand car garages (for no good reason), and like to call themselves 'princes' and 'kings'.
Come on now.




Israel was found as a democracy?

That's a good one. Was that joke written by one of the Jewish comedy writers that are the backbone of the Americancomedy shows? Because it sure made me laugh. Killer material! Anyway, the state you know as Israel was found on the apartheid principle of removing the nativepopulation from Palestine and homes they and their families have been living in for many generations in order to make a zionist state.. They could get awaywith it because the world felt sorry for their sufferings in an event that Palestinians had nothing to do with.

Also, a series of terrorist attacks, most notably the bombing of the King David Hotel was carried out by zionist militants before the official permission tosteal the land from the Palestinians was given to the zionists by the UN. And these "democrats" would've still carried out terrorist attacks hadthe state of Israel not been created. What a strong "democracy" it was.

One of the main reasons that there is such a thing as Al-Qaeda and other Islamic extremist groups whose existence the west seems puzzled by is becausethe Arab leaders have sold the Palestinians out... Any, and I mean ANY anti-American sentiment in the Arab world has its roots in America's continuousunconditional support of Israel. The Arab people love their Palestinian brothers, if the Arab leaders don't. And I can assure you that this Israelimassacre going on these days hasn't created fewer terrorist that would be ready to commit suicide attacks on Israel and the U.S. I'd say thatit was in U.S. interest not to have these types around. And since you like talking about what will happen in 50 years - the Muslim countries have the highestpopulation growth rate in the world, and more and more young Muslims are getting angry at the U.S. for its support of Israel and would be ready to attack U.S.We'll see how the U.S. decision to unconditionally support Israel in whatever they do will pay off in the long run.

 

[devildog1776]

Originally Posted by Kickmatic23

Originally Posted by devildog1776

Iran needs to nuke israel .... Yeah I said it... Get it over with already... All this back and forth is wack

you are ******ed

i would say something back.. but im not gonna sink to your level of stupidity

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by NikeTalker23

Dey Know Yayo wrote:

---

Israel has the best military of the world aside from America's. How would Palestine ever get to that level? smh




MidEastBeast, what inherent strategic benefits does America receive in its continued support for Israel?

Did I ever say they would? No. All I said was the number are all one sided because of Palestine's inferior military. If they had a stronger
military the death toll would be a lot closer.

That's the last thing the Palestinians would want.
Israel would love for the Palestinians to have a standard and stronger military so they can fight in a more conventional way.

Just as an aside.
The west (the US specifically and most forcefully) does not only supports Israel because of the Jewish lobby but because they are of the same ilk.
What does the west have in common with the Arabs? Do they share a civilization? Language family? Much common history?

Israel was founded as a socialist democracy by Jews from Europe. There are few reasons for the West to support the Arabs. There is very little, if any, common ground between the cultures.

The fact is that the Arabs have sold out the Palestinians and use them as pawns for their own regional and geopolitical games.

Wealthy Jews use their money to buy support for Israel and other Jewish causes and wealthy Arabs use their money to build 'man made Islands' (that cater to Westerners; which no one will give a !$*% about in 50 years time) , have thousand car garages (for no good reason), and like to call themselves 'princes' and 'kings'.
Come on now.

Israel was found as a democracy?

That's a good one. Was that joke written by one of the Jewish comedy writers that are the backbone of the American comedy shows? Because it sure made me laugh. Killer material! Anyway, the state you know as Israel was found on the apartheid principle of removing the native population from Palestine and homes they and their families have been living in for many generations in order to make a zionist state.. They could get away with it because the world felt sorry for their sufferings in an event that Palestinians had nothing to do with.

Also, a series of terrorist attacks, most notably the bombing of the King David Hotel was carried out by zionist militants before the official permission to steal the land from the Palestinians was given to the zionists by the UN. And these "democrats" would've still carried out terrorist attacks had the state of Israel not been created. What a strong "democracy" it was.

One of the main reasons that there is such a thing as Al-Qaeda and other Islamic extremist groups whose existence the west seems puzzled by is because the Arab leaders have sold the Palestinians out... Any, and I mean ANY anti-American sentiment in the Arab world has its roots in America's continuous unconditional support of Israel. The Arab people love their Palestinian brothers, if the Arab leaders don't. And I can assure you that this Israeli massacre going on these days hasn't created fewer terrorist that would be ready to commit suicide attacks on Israel and the U.S. I'd say that it was in U.S. interest not to have these types around. And since you like talking about what will happen in 50 years - the Muslim countries have the highest population growth rate in the world, and more and more young Muslims are getting angry at the U.S. for its support of Israel and would be ready to attack U.S. We'll see how the U.S. decision to unconditionally support Israel in whatever they do will pay off in the long run.

Israel was founded as a socialist democracy for it's people. It being a socialist democracy has nothing to do withhow they treat others.
Being a democracy doesn't mean that a nation does no wrong to others or acts in a more noble fashion. What's so difficult to understand about that?
Sorry to tell you but Democracy isn't some magic potion nor is it inherently a 'great' system. A nation can be a democracy and kill others.

I'm sure the average Arab feels for and wants to help Palestinians but they don't have the money (their governments do) so they can't really changethings.
Fighting the west won't get them anywhere.The west has no problems waging wars.
Europeans fought like cats and dogs amongst each other for centuries. Will they hesitate to fight outsiders?
The idea that 'Mujahids' will "get" the west for its misdeeds is fantasy. You can't fight the west at their own game.

 

[carlos tevez]

What really interests me now is if Israel is able to cripple Hamas within the next few weeks, will Israel be willing to negotiate a peace agreement once a moremoderate party takes control of the Gaza strip? I agree with Israel in that Hamas had to go, but not at the cost of hundreds of innocent lives.

One of the main reasons that there is such a thing as Al-Qaeda and other Islamic extremist groups whose existence the west seems puzzled by is because the Arab leaders have sold the Palestinians out... Any, and I mean ANY anti-American sentiment in the Arab world has its roots in America's continuous unconditional support of Israel. The Arab people love their Palestinian brothers, if the Arab leaders don't. And I can assure you that this Israeli massacre going on these days hasn't created fewer terrorist that would be ready to commit suicide attacks on Israel and the U.S. I'd say that it was in U.S. interest not to have these types around. And since you like talking about what will happen in 50 years - the Muslim countries have the highest population growth rate in the world, and more and more young Muslims are getting angry at the U.S. for its support of Israel and would be ready to attack U.S. We'll see how the U.S. decision to unconditionally support Israel in whatever they do will pay off in the long run.
I've felt the same way for years now. Arab/Muslim hatred of the west is rooted in the U.S.'s unconditional support of Israel, regardlessof Israel being right or wrong. Israel's current occupation of Gaza will only plant more terrorist seeds within the Palestinian population. Extremism isbred by desperation. The people there dont have jobs, cant go to school, have little food, electricity and supplies. What else will they have to do besideshate Israel?

 

[moonmaster3]

I am REALLY surprised Israel has the balls to just kill an American like Rachel Corrie like that.

 

[mideastbeast]

Originally Posted by moonmaster3

I am REALLY surprised Israel has the balls to just kill an American like Rachel Corrie like that.

Israel could have tortured her horribly for weeks then released a beheading tape and all that would have happened was a "condemnation"and maybe a day of media coverage.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

What really interests me now is if Israel is able to cripple Hamas within the next few weeks, will Israel be willing to negotiate a peace agreement once a more moderate party takes control of the Gaza strip? I agree with Israel in that Hamas had to go, but not at the cost of hundreds of innocent lives.

There isn't a solution that satisfies both sides at the present time and for the foreseeable future.
Why is that beyond belief for so many?

Why is it automatically assumed that there is a way to solve this where both sides are willing to settle the problem?
Oftentimes conflicts like this never get settled in a peaceful way.

 

[mideastbeast]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

What really interests me now is if Israel is able to cripple Hamas within the next few weeks, will Israel be willing to negotiate a peace agreement once a more moderate party takes control of the Gaza strip? I agree with Israel in that Hamas had to go, but not at the cost of hundreds of innocent lives.

There isn't a solution that satisfies both sides at the present time and for the foreseeable future.
Why is that beyond belief for so many?

Why is it automatically assumed that there is a way to solve this where both sides are willing to settle the problem?
Oftentimes conflicts like this never get settled in a peaceful way.

Also after all the carnage expect the Palestinians to become even more radical.

I don't know about you, but if I get my house bombed and have my innocent parents/children/friends killed or maimed with the rest of the world not doinganything substantial to help; I'm not going to sit down and try to make "peace" a few weeks later.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if worldwide terror increased soon.

You can't "fight" terrorism with cluster bombs, atleast not this type of terrorism. As Yayo and me were talking about, you have to solve the rootcause, and massacring civilians does nothing to help.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl


Israel was found as a democracy?

That's a good one. Was that joke written by one of the Jewish comedy writers that are the backbone of the American comedy shows? Because it sure made me laugh. Killer material! Anyway, the state you know as Israel was found on the apartheid principle of removing the native population from Palestine and homes they and their families have been living in for many generations in order to make a zionist state.. They could get away with it because the world felt sorry for their sufferings in an event that Palestinians had nothing to do with.

Also, a series of terrorist attacks, most notably the bombing of the King David Hotel was carried out by zionist militants before the official permission to steal the land from the Palestinians was given to the zionists by the UN. And these "democrats" would've still carried out terrorist attacks had the state of Israel not been created. What a strong "democracy" it was.

One of the main reasons that there is such a thing as Al-Qaeda and other Islamic extremist groups whose existence the west seems puzzled by is because the Arab leaders have sold the Palestinians out... Any, and I mean ANY anti-American sentiment in the Arab world has its roots in America's continuous unconditional support of Israel. The Arab people love their Palestinian brothers, if the Arab leaders don't. And I can assure you that this Israeli massacre going on these days hasn't created fewer terrorist that would be ready to commit suicide attacks on Israel and the U.S. I'd say that it was in U.S. interest not to have these types around. And since you like talking about what will happen in 50 years - the Muslim countries have the highest population growth rate in the world, and more and more young Muslims are getting angry at the U.S. for its support of Israel and would be ready to attack U.S. We'll see how the U.S. decision to unconditionally support Israel in whatever they do will pay off in the long run.

Amen.

Israel was created through the agressive means of colonization. They completely disregarded the indigenous Arab population and did not consent with them whenit was planned to create a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The Jewish people were going to garner a state in "a land without people for thepeople without a land". It is to the point they dismiss the fact that people lived there. They saw the Arabs as primitive, savages, uncivilized, and thatthe Jews were going to come in and make that land flourish with such great advancement. It was done in no different fashion than when the white man used the"white man's burden" mentality to go ahead and colonize "uncivilized" populations around the world. That is why it was so much easierfor them for going in and taking over with that kind of mentality when you dismiss "The Other" as inferior and worthless.

I do agree with a creation of a homeland for Jews, but it was done at the expense of removing and expulsing Palestinians, and that I do not agree with. It wasdone at the cost of other peoples, in this case Palestinians, having to be killed, dispossessed, and uprooted from their homes and their land.

Also, you mentioned the fact how the state of Israel was created through terrorism, which is absolutely true. Many former and current Israeli leaders andpoliticians were members of these Jewish terrorist groups, such as the Irgun and Lehi gangs. These groups were dismissed when Israel finally was established asa state, but it does not change the fact that these groups used terror and ethnic cleansing to achieve their means. Of course they were dismissed, because nowsome of these former terrorists were placed in the government to run the country and they did not need unofficial forms of terrorizing Palestinians. David BenGurion was a known "former" terrorist and a member of these gangs and he became the first Prime Minister of the state of Israel. Besides terrorizingPalestinians, they even killed Jews and the British. They cry foul and claim Arafat was a terrorist and Hamas are terrorists, but completely dismiss the factsome members of the Israeli government were known terrorists themselves. These men are even commemorated in Israel. Also, just because you become a governmententity, does not dismiss you as being a terrorist. State terrorism is quite well stronger and mightier than militant terrorism. But of course, when it comes tothe most powerful and the most self-righteous, governments that are "legitimate" and combatants in army uniforms are not terrorists. But then again,it is the victors who write history and as my signature states...The worst violators of nature and human rights never go to jail, they hold the keys to it.

 

[az005us]

Screw Palestine, Hamas and ^ . They deserve what they get.

 

[ballinsam23]

stop making these posts. it only creates more anger, more retaliation, more enemies among niketalk members. Sometimes the media does a good job with propagandaand all that BS. These posts will not make anyone feel better and are full of racism, discrimination, and all that. We already have one thread about thisconflict that is already chaotic

 

[theconditioner]

What really interests me now is if Israel is able to cripple Hamas within the next few weeks, will Israel be willing to negotiate a peace agreement once a more moderate party takes control of the Gaza strip? I agree with Israel in that Hamas had to go, but not at the cost of hundreds of innocent lives.
There will be no effective peace agreement as long as Israel and the United States maintain their rejectionist stances. Period. Hamas wasalready willing to make a peace agreement but was ignored as usual.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by theconditioner

What really interests me now is if Israel is able to cripple Hamas within the next few weeks, will Israel be willing to negotiate a peace agreement once a more moderate party takes control of the Gaza strip? I agree with Israel in that Hamas had to go, but not at the cost of hundreds of innocent lives.

There will be no effective peace agreement as long as Israel and the United States maintain their rejectionist stances. Period. Hamas was already willing to make a peace agreement but was ignored as usual.

They want a peace agreement once they realized that this wan't the usual inane 1 week incursion.
Everyone wants peace agreements when they're losing.

Translated from Swedish.

Split between Gaza Hamas and Damascus Hamas

-------------------------------------

Iran warns Hamas not to accept Egyptian truce proposal

Jan. 12, 2009
Khaled Abu Toameh , THE JERUSALEM POST

Iran is exerting heavy pressure on Hamas not to accept the Egyptian proposal for a cease-fire with Israel, an Egyptian government official said on Sunday.

The official told The Jerusalem Post by phone that two senior Iranian officials who visited Damascus recently warned Hamas leaders against accepting the proposal.

His remarks came as Hamas representatives met in Cairo with Egyptian Intelligence Chief Gen. Omar Suleiman and his aides to discuss ways of ending the fighting in the Gaza Strip.

The Hamas representatives reiterated their opposition to a cease-fire that did not include the reopening of all the border crossings into the Gaza Strip, Hamas spokesmen said on Sunday.

The spokesmen said Hamas voiced its strong opposition to the idea of deploying an international force inside the Gaza Strip.

The Egyptian official said that the two Iranian emissaries, Ali Larijani, Speaker of the Iranian Parliament, and Said Jalili of the Iranian Intelligence Service, met in the Syrian capital with Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal and Islamic Jihad Secretary-General Ramadan Shallah.

"As soon as the Iranians heard about the Egyptian cease-fire initiative, they dispatched the two officials to Damascus on an urgent mission to warn the Palestinians against accepting it," the Egyptian government official told the Post.

"The Iranians threatened to stop weapons supplies and funding to the Palestinian factions if they agreed to a cease-fire with Israel. The Iranians want to fight Israel and the US indirectly. They are doing this through Hamas in Palestine and Hizbullah in Lebanon."

The official pointed out that the Iranians were applying "double standards" regarding the current conflict - on the one hand, they encouraged Iranian men to volunteer to fight alongside Hamas; on the other hand, Iran's spiritual leader, Ali Khamenei, told the volunteers that they would not be permitted to join the fight against Israel.

"The Iranians never fired one bullet at Israel," he said. "But now they are trying to appear as if they are participating in the war against Israel. The leaders of Teheran don't care about the innocent civilians who are being killed in the Gaza Strip."

The Egyptian official accused Iran of "encouraging" Hamas to continue firing rockets at Israel with the hope that this would trigger a war that would divert attention from Iran's nuclear plans.

"This conflict serves the interests of the Iranians," he said. "They are satisfied because the violence in the Gaza Strip has diverted attention from their nuclear ambitions. The Iranians are also hoping to use the Palestinian issue as a 'powerful card' in future talks with the Americans.

"They want to show that they have control over Hamas and many Palestinians."

Karam Jaber, editor of the semi-official Egyptian weekly Roz Al-Youssef magazine, said that Hamas was caught between the Syrian anvil and the Iranian hammer. The Iranians, he said, prevented Hamas from negotiating a cease-fire with Israel, while the Syrians were blackmailing and intimidating the Hamas leaders in Damascus.

"History won't forget to mention that Hamas had inflicted death and destruction on the Palestinians," he said. "We hope that Hamas has learned the lesson and realizes that it has been fighting a war on behalf of others. We hope the Hamas leaders will realize that they are fighting a destructive war on behalf of the Iranians and Syrians."

Egyptian political analyst Magdi Khalil said he shared the view of the Palestinian Authority and Egypt that Hamas was responsible for the war in the Gaza Strip. "Ever since Hamas seized control over the Gaza Strip in 2007, they turned the area into hell," he said. "They imposed restrictions on the people there and even prevented them from performing the pilgrimage to Mecca."

The analyst said that the head of the Egyptian General Intelligence Service was right when he recently described Hamas as a group of gangsters. "Hamas and its masters in Damascus and Teheran want to spread chaos in Egypt," he said. "They want to solve the problem of the Gaza Strip by handing the area over to Egypt. They want to create a homeland for the Palestinians in Sinai."

He said that Hamas was not only jeopardizing Egypt's national security, but had also destroyed the Palestinians' dream of statehood. "By endorsing the Iranian agenda, Hamas has brought the Iranians to Egypt's eastern border," he said. "Hamas has also copied Hizbullah's policy of entering into pointless adventures."


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424929369&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printerhttp://www.jpost.com/serv...ost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

Rigging a school. Real Nice.

After that? "The Children have no place to learn!"

 

[mideastbeast]

Jpost ftL

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Jpost ftL

What's not ftl?

 

[hangtight]

az005us wrote:

---

Screw Palestine, Hamas and ^ . They deserve what they get.
Why? What did all the Palestine people do to deserve having their Moms, Dads, Sisters, Sons die?

 

[carminepower]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/

This will catch you up on the Gaza situation.

If you want info on the overall history, use wikipedia and google or get books by respected historians. Just make sure it's a balanced source.

Still, no matter how you look at it, almost 800 dead, 2-3 thousand wounded, 30-40% women and children casualties vs a handful dead and injured tells you something.

Yes, indeed. It tells us that Hamas is despicable enough to hide in schools and civilian establishments and shoot rockets from them