Parents get 6 months in Jail + 10 years probation for prayer death

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091007/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death

I saw this on CNN at lunch, yesterday. I'm not sure if there was already a similar case before, but this was ground breaking, to me. No matter youreligious views, or views on religion, this must have been at least somewhat shocking. I think it was a fair verdict, but it could send a rift through societyas we know it in regards to faith.

Some quotes from the article that kind of sum it up and caught my attention:
"I am guilty of trusting my Lord's wisdom completely. ... Guilty of asking for heavenly intervention. Guilty of following Jesus Christ when the wholeworld does not understand. Guilty of obeying my God"

"They allowed Kara to die because they got themselves too caught up in the misguided belief that they were being tested by God," the prosecutor said.

The verdict has a pretty distinct disregard for religious beliefs in regards to "doing the right thing." If they're not BSing with their talk ofneglecting doctor's visits because of their faith, or even if they were, it's remarkable that they were given time in jail for the same thing that mostprisoners use as an excuse to get out of jail.

Article text in the spoiler:

Spoiler [+]
By ROBERT IMRIE, Associated Press Writer - Wed Oct 7, 8:04 am ET WAUSAU, Wis. - A central Wisconsin couple who prayed rather than seek medical care for their 11-year-old dying daughter were sentenced Tuesday to six months in jail and 10 years probation in the girl's death. Dale and Leilani Neumann could have received up to 25 years in prison for the March 2008 death of Madeline Neumann, who died of an undiagnosed but treatable form of diabetes. They were convicted of second-degree reckless homicide in separate trials earlier this year. In sentencing the couple, Marathon County Circuit Court Judge Vincent Howard said the Neumanns were "very good people, raising their family who made a bad decision, a reckless decision." "God probably works through other people," Howard told the parents, "some of them doctors." The case was believed to be the first of its kind in Wisconsin involving faith healing in which someone died and another person was charged with a homicide. Prosecutors contended the Neumanns recklessly killed their youngest of four children by ignoring obvious symptoms of severe illness as she became too weak to speak, eat, drink or walk. They said the couple had a legal duty to take their daughter to a doctor but relied totally on prayer for healing. The girl, known as Kara, died on the floor of the family's rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed. Someone finally called 911 after she stopped breathing. "We are here today because to some, you made Kara a martyr to your faith," Howard told the parents. In testimony at trial and in videotaped interviews with police, the parents said they believe healing comes from God and that they never expected their daughter to die. During the sentencing hearing, Leilani Neumann, 41, told the judge her family is loving and forgiving and has wrongly been portrayed as religious zealots. "I do not regret trusting truly in the Lord for my daughter's health," she said. "Did we know she had a fatal illness? No. Did we act to the best of our knowledge? Yes." Dale Neumann, 47, read from the Bible and told the judge that he loved his daughter. "I am guilty of trusting my Lord's wisdom completely. ... Guilty of asking for heavenly intervention. Guilty of following Jesus Christ when the whole world does not understand. Guilty of obeying my God," he said. The Neumanns held each other as Howard sentenced them, a Bible on the table nearby and their three teenage children sitting behind them in the front row of the courtroom. Prosecutors had asked for a three-year suspended prison sentence and 10 years probation. Defense attorneys had sought four years probation. The judge ordered the couple to serve one month in jail each year for six years so the parents can "think about Kara and what God wants you to learn from this." One parent would serve the term in March and the other in September. Howard stayed the jail sentences while the couple's convictions are appealed. As part of their probation, the parents must allow a public health nurse to examine their two underage children at least once every three months and must immediately take their children to a doctor for any serious injuries. Assistant District Attorney LaMont Jacobson said justice was served by the sentences, but he was disappointed the parents never said they were sorry for what happened. "They allowed Kara to die because they got themselves too caught up in the misguided belief that they were being tested by God," the prosecutor said. Dale Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, told reporters the couple continues to trust in God. "We live by faith," he said after the sentencing. "We are completely content with what the Lord has allowed to come down, but he is not done yet."
 
Sounds more like punishment for not paying the Govt. for medicine/visits/what have you.
 
that's wild. seems like they got way too caught in their beliefs, but not taking your dying kid to the hospital because your being tested? smh

God only helps those who helps those who help themselves.
 
...reminds me of the joke...

There was a guy drowning in the ocean. He prayed to God to save him.

A few minutes later a boat came and offered to pick him up and take him to shore. The drowning man refused and the boat left.

Another boat came and offered to save the man and he said no, and the boat left.

Finally a third boat came and said I can help you. Once again the drowning man said no.

When he died he said to God: I trusted you. Why didn't you save me??

God said: I sent you 3 boats!!!!!!!!!!
 
Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

...reminds me of the joke...

There was a guy drowning in the ocean. He prayed to God to save him.

A few minutes later a boat came and offered to pick him up and take him to shore. The drowning man refused and the boat left.

Another boat came and offered to save the man and he said no, and the boat left.

Finally a third boat came and said I can help you. Once again the drowning man said no.

When he died he said to God: I trusted you. Why didn't you save me??

God said: I sent you 3 boats!!!!!!!!!!

roll.gif
 
Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

...reminds me of the joke...

There was a guy drowning in the ocean. He prayed to God to save him.

A few minutes later a boat came and offered to pick him up and take him to shore. The drowning man refused and the boat left.

Another boat came and offered to save the man and he said no, and the boat left.

Finally a third boat came and said I can help you. Once again the drowning man said no.

When he died he said to God: I trusted you. Why didn't you save me??

God said: I sent you 3 boats!!!!!!!!!!



indifferent.gif
 
Originally Posted by CHICHAN

Well, God helps those who help themselves.

How can God help you if you're helping yourself? It seems like one of those one-or-the-other type things.
 
Originally Posted by ekon one

No, I get it. The joke's so dumb it gets a stoneface.

The joke was 100% appropriate for this post, its not intended to be funny, its intended to point out the irony of the situation.
 
Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Originally Posted by CHICHAN

Well, God helps those who help themselves.

How can God help you if you're helping yourself? It seems like one of those one-or-the-other type things.

Seems like a whole lot going over your head in your own thread here, lol. You don't get this one either? It means God doesn't just GIVE you what youwant, he gives you the means to get out and get it YOURSELF. You can't just sit on your #+* and pray for dinner and expect God to make your mealmaterialize in front of you...God put food on the earth for you, and gave you the ability to hunt or harvest it, so you have to HELP YOURSELF.
 
Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Originally Posted by CHICHAN

Well, God helps those who help themselves.

How can God help you if you're helping yourself? It seems like one of those one-or-the-other type things.

Seems like a whole lot going over your head in your own thread here, lol. You don't get this one either? It means God doesn't just GIVE you what you want, he gives you the means to get out and get it YOURSELF. You can't just sit on your +** and pray for dinner and expect God to make your meal materialize in front of you...you have to HELP YOURSELF.

I know exactly what that meant, I just think it's complete crap.
 
Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

...reminds me of the joke...

There was a guy drowning in the ocean. He prayed to God to save him.

A few minutes later a boat came and offered to pick him up and take him to shore. The drowning man refused and the boat left.

Another boat came and offered to save the man and he said no, and the boat left.

Finally a third boat came and said I can help you. Once again the drowning man said no.

When he died he said to God: I trusted you. Why didn't you save me??

God said: I sent you 3 boats!!!!!!!!!!

laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Originally Posted by CHICHAN

Well, God helps those who help themselves.

How can God help you if you're helping yourself? It seems like one of those one-or-the-other type things.

Seems like a whole lot going over your head in your own thread here, lol. You don't get this one either? It means God doesn't just GIVE you what you want, he gives you the means to get out and get it YOURSELF. You can't just sit on your +** and pray for dinner and expect God to make your meal materialize in front of you...you have to HELP YOURSELF.

I know exactly what that meant, I just think it's complete crap.
And now you get the stoneface
indifferent.gif
You knew exactlywhat it meant but had to ask anyway? You got the joke but failed to see the relevence to your thread? Notice you are the only one...
 
Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

...reminds me of the joke...

There was a guy drowning in the ocean. He prayed to God to save him.

A few minutes later a boat came and offered to pick him up and take him to shore. The drowning man refused and the boat left.

Another boat came and offered to save the man and he said no, and the boat left.

Finally a third boat came and said I can help you. Once again the drowning man said no.

When he died he said to God: I trusted you. Why didn't you save me??

God said: I sent you 3 boats!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, I was thinking of that joke first!
 
Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Originally Posted by CHICHAN

Well, God helps those who help themselves.

How can God help you if you're helping yourself? It seems like one of those one-or-the-other type things.

Seems like a whole lot going over your head in your own thread here, lol. You don't get this one either? It means God doesn't just GIVE you what you want, he gives you the means to get out and get it YOURSELF. You can't just sit on your +** and pray for dinner and expect God to make your meal materialize in front of you...you have to HELP YOURSELF.

I know exactly what that meant, I just think it's complete crap.
And now you get the stoneface
indifferent.gif
You knew exactly what it meant but had to ask anyway? You got the joke but failed to see the relevence to your thread? Notice you are the only one...

And now you get the L
 
Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Originally Posted by CHICHAN

Well, God helps those who help themselves.

How can God help you if you're helping yourself? It seems like one of those one-or-the-other type things.

Seems like a whole lot going over your head in your own thread here, lol. You don't get this one either? It means God doesn't just GIVE you what you want, he gives you the means to get out and get it YOURSELF. You can't just sit on your +** and pray for dinner and expect God to make your meal materialize in front of you...you have to HELP YOURSELF.

I know exactly what that meant, I just think it's complete crap.
And now you get the stoneface
indifferent.gif
You knew exactly what it meant but had to ask anyway? You got the joke but failed to see the relevence to your thread? Notice you are the only one...

And now you get the L

laugh.gif
Ok...exactly what am I taking an L for? Explaining the obvious toyou? Keep diggin that hole....
 
Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Originally Posted by CHICHAN

Well, God helps those who help themselves.

How can God help you if you're helping yourself? It seems like one of those one-or-the-other type things.

Seems like a whole lot going over your head in your own thread here, lol. You don't get this one either? It means God doesn't just GIVE you what you want, he gives you the means to get out and get it YOURSELF. You can't just sit on your +** and pray for dinner and expect God to make your meal materialize in front of you...you have to HELP YOURSELF.

I know exactly what that meant, I just think it's complete crap.
And now you get the stoneface
indifferent.gif
You knew exactly what it meant but had to ask anyway? You got the joke but failed to see the relevence to your thread? Notice you are the only one...

And now you get the L
roll.gif
 
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