Phx Suns Fans: Time to trade Amare vol. foul-prone and poor rebounder

[nyk buc]

rebounding is heart/effort/intensity. rodman was what? 6'8? and dawg was intense on the boards.

even an unathletic player like yao ming pulls 10 boards on average.

amare is a good player, don't know why he's so hyped on NT. he's still a level or 2 below duncan/kg/howard and even yao ming.

 

[nbadotcom]

Originally Posted by RyGuy45

Zo in all seriousness, what's with this guys defensive game?

I dont expect anyone to guard Duncan because no one really can. But it seems Amare has some flaws in his game on that end. I read about it more and more nationally as well. I mean hell i saw him come into Minnesota last week and have Al Jefferson drop 32 and 20 on him.

I wouldnt claim to know much because I dont obviously see the guy play night in and night out so that's why I ask I guess.

PS Anyone saying they really should trade Amare needs to think about option Bs.....

Phoenix's biggest problem seems to be dumping K Thomas, IMO (thinking ahead to playoffs more so) but i could be wrong.

I think there are a combination of factors regarding STAT's defense - first of all, I don't really think he cares about defense. Heconcentrates on the offensive end and really doesn't play that hard on defense. With regard to rebounding, he doesn't have to be a monster on theboards every night because we have Trix. Amare knows that...so he doesn't hit the boards as hard as he should.
I also think he gets called for a ridiculous amount of ticky tack fouls for some reason.
I've never seen a big man pick up so many offensive fouls, illegal screens, and other garbage calls. Often it seems that he's got a target on his back.Maybe switching to #1 was a bad idea because it's easier for officials to signal the #1 than the #32. When he's in foul trouble so often he can'treally play as hard on the defensive end because he doesn't want to be out of the game.

Dumping Kurt Thomas was a bad idea, but Skinner has really given the Suns more than I had expected this year. He does a good job on the defensive end, and canhit the mid range jumpers. He's blocking close to 1.5 shots per game in limited minutes. There's really not much more that can be asked from the guy inthe role he plays.

 

[demonbasketball04]

Originally Posted by NBAdotcom

I think there are a combination of factors regarding STAT's defense - first of all, I don't really think he cares about defense. He concentrates on the offensive end and really doesn't play that hard on defense. With regard to rebounding, he doesn't have to be a monster on the boards every night because we have Trix. Amare knows that...so he doesn't hit the boards as hard as he should.
I also think he gets called for a ridiculous amount of ticky tack fouls for some reason.
I've never seen a big man pick up so many offensive fouls, illegal screens, and other garbage calls. Often it seems that he's got a target on his back. Maybe switching to #1 was a bad idea because it's easier for officials to signal the #1 than the #32. When he's in foul trouble so often he can't really play as hard on the defensive end because he doesn't want to be out of the game.

Dumping Kurt Thomas was a bad idea, but Skinner has really given the Suns more than I had expected this year. He does a good job on the defensive end, and can hit the mid range jumpers. He's blocking close to 1.5 shots per game in limited minutes. There's really not much more that can be asked from the guy in the role he plays.

Oh man, what a rebuttal!!

 

[shannonscrooks]

People are still caught up in the Amare of a couple seasons ago.

And that isnt to say he is a bad player now but the Suns would benefit from trading him.

 

[chikickz]

You have to be really stupid to think trading Amare will make the Suns a better team.

1) The Suns shoot .491 from the field. There are a lot fewer misses when you lead the NBA is FG%.
2) Amare is averaging about 31 minutes. For a guy in his prime, you'd think he would clock around 38 minutes. For whatever reason, maybe nearly 4 foulsper, he's not getting enough burn.
3) Shawn Marion is a prolific rebounder. It's going to be difficult for two players to haul in 12 rebounds per.

The Suns need to be worried about defeating teams in their own conference. They're only 7-5 against the West and 11-2 against the East. The Pistons forexample are 11-2 against the East and 17-7 overall. You can't get to the finals playing .500 ball against your own conference.

 

[shannonscrooks]

The Suns need to be worried about defeating teams in their own conference. They're only 7-5 against the West and 11-2 against the East. The Pistons for example are 11-2 against the East and 17-7 overall. You can't get to the finals playing .500 ball against your own conference.
This happens when you improve your defense so trading for a better/superior defensive player would help this team improve its record against theWestern Conference.

 

[recognizaz]

RyGuy45 wrote:

---

Zo in all seriousness, what's with this guys defensive game?

I dont expect anyone to guard Duncan because no one really can. But it seems Amare has some flaws in his game on that end. I read about it more and more nationally as well. I mean hell i saw him come into Minnesota last week and have Al Jefferson drop 32 and 20 on him.

I wouldnt claim to know much because I dont obviously see the guy play night in and night out so that's why I ask I guess.

PS Anyone saying they really should trade Amare needs to think about option Bs.....

Phoenix's biggest problem seems to be dumping K Thomas, IMO (thinking ahead to playoffs more so) but i could be wrong.

I think there are a combination of factors regarding STAT's defense - first of all, I don't really think he cares about defense. He concentrates on the offensive end and really doesn't play that hard on defense. With regard to rebounding, he doesn't have to be a monster on the boards every night because we have Trix. Amare knows that...so he doesn't hit the boards as hard as he should.
I also think he gets called for a ridiculous amount of ticky tack fouls for some reason.
I've never seen a big man pick up so many offensive fouls, illegal screens, and other garbage calls. Often it seems that he's got a target on his back. Maybe switching to #1 was a bad idea because it's easier for officials to signal the #1 than the #32. When he's in foul trouble so often he can't really play as hard on the defensive end because he doesn't want to be out of the game.

Dumping Kurt Thomas was a bad idea, but Skinner has really given the Suns more than I had expected this year. He does a good job on the defensive end, and can hit the mid range jumpers. He's blocking close to 1.5 shots per game in limited minutes. There's really not much more that can be asked from the guy in the role he plays.


co-sign

 

[5dividedby4]

He needs to improve his defense and offense all together. Without Nash, this guy would be Kmart

You do know he was putting up numbers before Nash right?

 

[jdiddy931]

give it after all star break and he'll average 11 boards a night.

oh and about amare letting duncan score whenever he wanted.. it's like saying duncan letting amare average 39 pts in the wcf's.. it was no doubt thatit was the suns plan to let duncan score whenever he wanted, and worked and won the game. Dantoni copped that from popvich.

Phoenix's biggest problem seems to be dumping K Thomas, IMO (thinking ahead to playoffs more so) but i could be wrong.
Kurt Thomas is a lazy bum.. everytime dude went out there he picked up silly fouls and mugged the ref like it was his fault!! He had ONE good gamein a suns jersey and that was game 2 spurs and suns. IMO, SKINNER NEEDS TO BE IN THE STARTING LINEUP!!!

 

[outacontrol music]

LeBron-Amare....

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by Jdiddy931

IMO, SKINNER NEEDS TO BE IN THE STARTING LINEUP!!!

Skinner in the starting lineup? That's reaching. What should the starting lineup look like, then?

But I do think that Skinner deserves more minutes than he is given currently..

 

[denni5themenace]

Phoenix's biggest problem seems to be dumping K Thomas


that's exactly what i'm thinking their problem is.

 

[94feet]

A lot of people here would be shocked at just how close Amare might be to getting traded. He is a great talent but he is LAZY. That is a fact. I know for afact that there have been talks in the last week or so and the end result would have Phx fans fuming. Amare would be gone and we would not recieve anythingeven close to a superstar caliber player in return. This road trip is big as upper managment is torn on whether to break up the big 3 or make a big trade. Ifwe do well it just might keep em' together. Bottom line to me is enjoy this while you can Phx fans beause after Nash is gone and $arver has to make somereal decisions we will be screwed. Ask yourself this: Would Bryan Colangelo have gotten the KG deal done? There is NO DOUBT in my mind that he would have.

 

[chikickz]

Sign PJ Brown?

 

[theandrea3000]

Yet I never hear you guys call him "soft".

 

[shuges]

Often it seems that he's got a target on his back. Maybe switching to #1 was a bad idea because it's easier for officials to signal the #1 than the #32

Seriously though, I've been saying this for a minute now (trade Amare).

His value is great at this point. And honestly, I just don't see dude playing at this level beyond 3 or 4 more years.... TOPS. Maybe even less.

I'm not bashing him, cuz I like Amare's game. But the Suns really should consider moving him asap.

 

[N41D]

2 Knee Injuries + That System + Big Man that relies heavily on his athleticism = Bad Mix, IMO...

I've said a ton before that I thought Amare was a hell of a talent, but if someone overwhelms you with an offer, I don't see how you dismiss thethought of moving him...I'd absolutely understand if they kept him, but I think there's definately an argument to be made for moving him while hisstock is still extremely high. Once Nash is finished, doesn't this team's window slam shut? Garnett would have been the perfect opportunity this pastyear to really step up and get that guy to match up with Duncan and make a serious move...

 

[nbadotcom]

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

2 Knee Injuries + That System + Big Man that relies heavily on his athleticism = Bad Mix, IMO...

I've said a ton before that I thought Amare was a hell of a talent, but if someone overwhelms you with an offer, I don't see how you dismiss the thought of moving him...I'd absolutely understand if they kept him, but I think there's definately an argument to be made for moving him while his stock is still extremely high. Once Nash is finished, doesn't this team's window slam shut? Garnett would have been the perfect opportunity this past year to really step up and get that guy to match up with Duncan and make a serious move...

It's interesting to me that people automatically think that Garnett would have improved the Suns. Sure, the Celtics are doing great right now, butlet's wait until the playoffs until we judge that deal. As it is, Garnett has still only been out of the first round once in his career.
I'd much rather have a 25 year old Amare with an unlimited upside than a 32 year old Garnett who only has 2-3 more years left in the tank. Don't forgetthat despite the knee surgeries Amare is coming off a season in which he was first team all-NBA.

Sure, there are aspects of his game that he should improve on, namely rebounding and straight up man defense, but at this point the only big man in the NBAI'd take ahead of him would be Dwight Howard.

I'm amazed at the progression that Howard's made from last year to this year. Last year I put Amare ahead of him, but I think that Howard has surpassedAmare this year - that's not to say that Amare can't beast on people for the rest of the season and take the top spot back...but thus far into theseason there hasn't been a better big in the league than Dwight Howard.
The one thing that Howard has, however is that he's the unquestioned numberone option on his team...Rashard Lewis is ok, but it's Dwight's team. The Suns have Steve and Shawn who are scorers, as well as Barbosa and Hill whocan go for 20+ on any given night...so Amare isn't going to be the "go to" guy every night like Howard is on Orlando - I'd be interested tosee Amare's numbers if he were in that type of situation where you know he's getting the ball - the Suns often have stretches where they take entirelytoo many jump shots and don't really give him the ball down low.

 

[jdiddy931]

Yet I never hear you guys call him "soft".

please tell me your not talking about amare.

Skinner in the starting lineup? That's reaching. What should the starting lineup look like, then?

Nash, Bell, Marion, Stoudemire, Skinner. Grant is averaging tooooo much mins.. with that many injuries, he needs to cool it down, and skinnerstarting will make him stronger and better when playoffs come by.... Amare wouldn't have to rely on rebounding so much and we wouldn't be getting outrebounded everynight.

 

[nbadotcom]

Originally Posted by Jdiddy931

Yet I never hear you guys call him "soft".

please tell me your not talking about amare.

Skinner in the starting lineup? That's reaching. What should the starting lineup look like, then?

Nash, Bell, Marion, Stoudemire, Skinner. Grant is averaging tooooo much mins.. with that many injuries, he needs to cool it down, and skinner starting will make him stronger and better when playoffs come by.... Amare wouldn't have to rely on rebounding so much and we wouldn't be getting out rebounded everynight.

Sometimes I wonder if you really watch Suns games.

Skinner is Amare's backup. If we have Skinner AND Amare in the starting lineup who would come off the bench to spell them? Don't even think aboutsaying Diaw. He's not a post player. I don't care what D'Antoni wants you to believe.
So that leaves you with...who? Sean Marks?

 

[jblackcat13]

Originally Posted by NBAdotcom

Originally Posted by Jdiddy931

Yet I never hear you guys call him "soft".

please tell me your not talking about amare.

Skinner in the starting lineup? That's reaching. What should the starting lineup look like, then?

Nash, Bell, Marion, Stoudemire, Skinner. Grant is averaging tooooo much mins.. with that many injuries, he needs to cool it down, and skinner starting will make him stronger and better when playoffs come by.... Amare wouldn't have to rely on rebounding so much and we wouldn't be getting out rebounded everynight.

Sometimes I wonder if you really watch Suns games.

Skinner is Amare's backup. If we have Skinner AND Amare in the starting lineup who would come off the bench to spell them? Don't even think about saying Diaw. He's not a post player. I don't care what D'Antoni wants you to believe.
So that leaves you with...who? Sean Marks?

He did see you in the game though remember?

 

[jdiddy931]

Sometimes I wonder if you really watch Suns games.
havent missed a game since howard eisley was around.

Skinner is Amare's backup. If we have Skinner AND Amare in the starting lineup who would come off the bench to spell them? Don't even think about saying Diaw. He's not a post player. I don't care what D'Antoni wants you to believe.

Amare comes out the game because he's ALWAYS in foul trouble.. with skinner in the lineup, he wouldnt get in foul trouble.. he wouldn'thave to come out as much. Amare was top 5 in mins in 2004-2005 behind matrix. Amare should be averaging 40 mins a night.

 

[jdiddy931]

oh and i got every suns game recorded.. and saved every amare dunk he's done coming in the league... i have about 20 gb's of amare highlights.

 

[you big dummy]

Originally Posted by presequel

shoulda traded him for kg.

shaky knees.

Seriously

 

[nbadotcom]

Originally Posted by Jdiddy931

oh and i got every suns game recorded.. and saved every amare dunk he's done coming in the league... i have about 20 gb's of amare highlights.

That's all well & good...but are you a Suns fan or an Amare fan? If Amare was traded to the Bobcats would you become a Bobcats fan?
I just don't understand some of your reasoning sometimes. I understand you watch all the Suns games...but some of the posts you make (like the one when welost to Houston about Amare's dunks) make me wonder how much you really follow the team as a whole.