Pope Francis Excommunicates the mafia.....Also makes exorcisms official catholic practice.

[rico x hood]

Logical conclusion for you. Many have already explained why that parallel can't be drawn. But you keep wanting to push it because that's the only counter you have. You're grasping at straws and it's showing.

 

[shoelyesses]

I'm not blaming all whites, just Americans who could have read up on the history and bounced. (Btw, I, personally, don't blame all American whites for those things, I, a reasonable man, understand it was a few who did this, it was also part of the times, so not everyone who is a practicing white American is to blame, it's just the logical conclusion of everyone else's argument.)

but they arent currently instilling and enforcing those ways...Thats like blaming me for my dad selling drugs and then telling me oh if i dont try to in some revisionist history type of way right his wrongs by becoming a narc or drug counselor or something i need to leave the country...Nothing i can do to change the past, but there is something i could do to affect the present and future.

By not continuing the traditions of his ways or promoting it or associating myself with that lifestyle... You are essentially saying you shouldnt be associated judged on what your religion has done and continue to do because you arent personally doing it first hand. That and saying oh well thats not what i joined for, or by saying i didnt join for those reasons. But as long as you support/associate and promote your religious choice you are still apart of the wrongs and atrocities be it indirectly but you still are a part of it.

Is not a man still apart of a bank robbery if all he did was drive the getaway car? What if he said oh well i didnt rob the ppl. I didnt buy the gun, and i didnt shoot the gun. I didnt personally take the money.... Or better yet in your instance for example.... i didnt buy a car for the sole purpose of using it in a bank robbery... 

Would that justify your part in the robbery. Should you still be able to keep the money ie... benefits and reap the rewards?

You are basically saying i only want to acknowledge and be judge for the good i see in my religious beliefs, and be exempted form the wrong. because you arent personally doing them. You want ppl to ignore the negatives in reference to judging you... and focus on the positives... positives that only you benefit from and cant even show/prove to us that its true or even occurred. 

 

[Master Zik]

First of all, the Catholic Church qualifies, under most generally accepted political science definitions, as a State and a Nation, it's not a country but it does own one, so can we quit the straw man.



The point being, if you can prejudge and blame all Catholics I should be able to prejudge and blame all white folks.

blame all white folks for what exactly?

Well I think he meant the white ppl of that time era (and whoever supports it today) so I think it'd be fine to blame the majority of white ppl in America and Europe for that.

I don't think anybody is saying blame all white ppl now for the crimes of their ancestors.

I'm not blaming all whites, just Americans who could have read up on the history and bounced. (Btw, I, personally, don't blame all American whites for those things, I, a reasonable man, understand it was a few who did this, it was also part of the times, so not everyone who is a practicing white American is to blame, it's just the logical conclusion of everyone else's argument.)

Well if by a few you mean hundreds of thousands of white ppl in a position of power and all those who let it happen without speaking up (you know the all adage about letting evil prosper and good men doing nothing) over the course of 5 centuries compared to the countless millions of Africans enslaved over that same time then yeah sure it's a few white ppl and I'm being reasonable.

 

[shoelyesses]

Well I think he meant the white ppl of that time era (and whoever supports it today) so I think it'd be fine to blame the majority of white ppl in America and Europe for that.

I don't think anybody is saying blame all white ppl now for the crimes of their ancestors.
Well if by a few you mean hundreds of thousands of white ppl in a position of power and all those who let it happen without speaking up (you know the all adage about letting evil prosper and good men doing nothing) over the course of 5 centuries compared to the countless millions of Africans enslaved over that same time then yeah sure it's a few white ppl and I'm being reasonable.

id agree with that but those ppl no longer exist... and they arent still here associating themselves with slavery and promoting slavery... now if there ancestors of that era are here and now and still believe and associate themselves with that mindset then id understand his point.

But those same religious beliefs principles bylaws rules, gods etc.. still exist and while the originators arent here. it isnt the same as the example of the whites because one their views and actions are still being conducted... and there are ppl still apart of it and promoting and associating themselves with it aka current believers 

 

[am1x90xnike]

I really don't think a lot of you understand the church and the day to day lives of Catholics. But, if you're willing to concede that all white Americans can be blamed for slavery, for the same reasons we can blame all Catholics for the acts the church commits, even that catholic in Ks, who has no connections with the attracties of the church other than being a continuing member, and supporting the organization then I've got nothing more to argue.


I don't understand how your not getting the Catholic Church = government connection...like that's almost self evident..but whatever.

I swear, even when cats agree with me, they find a way to make me wrong...NT, goin Nt I guess.

 

[cobra kai]

People can't choose where they are born but they can choose what organizations they subscribe to. Children are not held accountable if they are born catholic, they essentially have no choice. But once they become the age to choose and they decide to remain catholic, then they have made a conscious decision to continue endorsing the rape of little boys across the world.

Can't the same be said for a person who reaches the age to choose to move and remains in their country?
The US has done some ****** up stuff, one of the biggest being becoming the US. But I'm not moving because some whites killed native americans. Cobra Kai never killed a native american.

If you celebrated the fourth of july, you support the genocide of Native Americans. See how stupid that sounds.

raised catholic, attended catholic school, currently subscribing to no particular faith. If it matters.

 

[Master Zik]

Well I think he meant the white ppl of that time era (and whoever supports it today) so I think it'd be fine to blame the majority of white ppl in America and Europe for that.


I don't think anybody is saying blame all white ppl now for the crimes of their ancestors.

Well if by a few you mean hundreds of thousands of white ppl in a position of power and all those who let it happen without speaking up (you know the all adage about letting evil prosper and good men doing nothing) over the course of 5 centuries compared to the countless millions of Africans enslaved over that same time then yeah sure it's a few white ppl and I'm being reasonable.

id agree with that but those ppl no longer exist... and they arent still here associating themselves with slavery and promoting slavery... now if there ancestors of that era are here and now and still believe and associate themselves with that mindset then id understand his point.

But those same religious beliefs principles bylaws rules, gods etc.. still exist and while the originators arent here. it isnt the same as the example of the whites because one their views and actions are still being conducted... and there are ppl still apart of it and promoting and associating themselves with it aka current believers 

Well yeah obviously they're long dead but I don't think the point was to look for ppl to blame who are still living.

Trying to blame white ppl now for what was done in the past solely based off the fact that they're white is a special kind of ironic ignorance.

That's why the comparison doesn't work for Catholics. They're coming of age (if their whole family are Catholic) and still remaining to be Catholic despite these facts that's why the whole point about them being indoctrinated, brainwashed, and overall being sheep shouldn't be ignored either.

 

[Master Zik]

Can't the same be said for a person who reaches the age to choose to move and remains in their country?

The US has done some ****** up stuff, one of the biggest being becoming the US. But I'm not moving because some whites killed native americans. Cobra Kai never killed a native american.

One does not simply choose to move out the country though. That is not in anyway the same thing as renouncing your faith.

This is why those two things are not equatable especially in America. If there was some sort of organization providing room and board, clothing, food, and a means to start a new life in a new country not soaked in blood then yeah it'd be a different conversation.

I mean for all you ppl bringing up this nonsensical comparison. Exactly what country do you suggest a person unwilling to live in America cuz of their numerous crimes should move to? Is it the country with the least blood on it's hands or are we moving to the Moon?

If you celebrated the fourth of july, you support the genocide of Native Americans. See how stupid that sounds.

Well that's more Thanksgiving than the 4th of July but technically yeah that is what ppl are indirectly celebrating. Same with Columbus Day.

 

[shoelyesses]

I really don't think a lot of you understand the church and the day to day lives of Catholics. But, if you're willing to concede that all white Americans can be blamed for slavery, for the same reasons we can blame all Catholics for the acts the church commits, even that catholic in Ks, who has no connections with the attracties of the church other than being a continuing member, and supporting the organization then I've got nothing more to argue.


I don't understand how your not getting the Catholic Church = government connection...like that's almost self evident..but whatever.

I swear, even when cats agree with me, they find a way to make me wrong...NT, goin Nt I guess.

but being a member and continuing to be associated with and promoting it you are supporting the org the good and the bad... Like i said before whether im shipping the dope in, packaging, cooking it, outright selling it, or just being the lookout man, id still be apart of the drug distribution cycle.

Same as being apart of the religion, no matter what part or cog you are in the machine, you still are a part of the machine... you cant just say oh well since im not the main piece or my piece isnt as important as another piece im not a part of the machine.

And yes i would concede all whites at the time of slavery who was apart of the slavery process are equally to blame.. whether you was the head slavemaster, the transporter, the auctioneer, the overseer, the person navigating the vessel to africa, from africa... no matter the part you played be it small or big id still say your were to blame. Same as religion, no matter the role you play you still are apart of the process.

But i wouldnt blame fault a sharecropper who was out in the fields side by side with me, who in no fashion played a role in slavery just because they were white. Nor would i blame some white man who lived up north and had no affiliation or tides with slavery just cause they are white. 

 

[ayzee]

Real talk... I think my step father may have been Mafia connected... He had 8 years in San Quinton that was never explained... Born and died in deeply Italian RI town...

My grandfather new a lot of the Patriarca/Atwells guys back in the day.

My friend's dad used to run rackets with Jimmy Burke, the real life Jimmy Conway (Robert DeNiro in Goodfellas). 

Bulger and Steve Flemmi all but deaded the mob in New England when they went rogue and snitched.

 

[Jordan8]

Thought they were already excommunicated or was that the cartel

 

[am1x90xnike]

Idk, I'm not getting it.

Catholic Church - organization whose subjects have agreed to follow its law through threat of force (hell)

Gov. - organization whose subjects agreed to follow its law through threat of force (prison)


Church commits atrocities, every member or supporter is held responsible, forever

Gov commits atrocities, only those alive during the time the atrocities were committed are held responsible.


The Holy See is recognized as a sovereign state
In international law, meaning it is its own Gov. So I don't understand how the church is different from any other sovereign state. Like, I don't understand.

Sovereign state + atrocity = all people part of that sovereign state are to blame. But, the American gov is the exception? I don't get it.

 

[Coromanti]

 
is religion that big among mafiosas? don't know any made men, so i wouldnt know...

also, did anybody want a hot dog after reading the exorcism article?

Can't speak for the Irish mobsters (most of whom are catholic) but the Italians take their religion seriously.

Those I see being most effected and probably get out of the mob are those who have been in for a minute and probably will take it as a sign its time to get out with their lives (assuming they have no chance at Don or any other top position).  Maybe even the really old heads who are 60+.

Don't see the young guns (pun not intended) being too deterred by this.

 

[celticspride34]

Idk, I'm not getting it.

Catholic Church - organization whose subjects have agreed to follow its law through threat of force (hell)

Gov. - organization whose subjects agreed to follow its law through threat of force (prison)


Church commits atrocities, every member or supporter is held responsible, forever

Gov commits atrocities, only those alive during the time the atrocities were committed are held responsible.


The Holy See is recognized as a sovereign state
In international law, meaning it is its own Gov. So I don't understand how the church is different from any other sovereign state. Like, I don't understand.

Sovereign state + atrocity = all people part of that sovereign state are to blame. But, the American gov is the exception? I don't get it.

Thought they were already excommunicated or was that the cartel

People like you will never get it...

And also, I find it hilarious that the church is finally doing this... Basically saying it was fine for 300 years lol...

 

[robin thicke]

So I guess someone is going to tell me why I can't hold all catholics responsible for the atrocities the church still commits today?

DIDNT YOU COMMIT SUICIDE?

 

[rico x hood]

No sir. I'm very much alive.

 

[robin thicke]

GLAD TO HEAR.

WHO STARTED THAT RUMOR, DAVE?

 

[SC kid]

You can't excommunicate the whole mafia just like that in one big move tho imo.

Im sure there are members of the catholic church that have been forgiven for far worse crimes than some people in the mafia committed.
And I'm not a betting cat, but I'm willing to bet the mafia has brought in more or an equal amount of euros into italy, as well as money into the church.

what really bugs me out is that sooooooo many people believe in exorcism.
Dats crazy, i hope thats not real.


not about dat afterlife.

 

[cobra kai]

the exorcism that they based the movie on occurred at my undergrad uni.

 

[Master Zik]

Idk, I'm not getting it.

Catholic Church - organization whose subjects have agreed to follow its law through threat of force (hell)

Gov. - organization whose subjects agreed to follow its law through threat of force (prison)


Church commits atrocities, every member or supporter is held responsible, forever

Gov commits atrocities, only those alive during the time the atrocities were committed are held responsible.


The Holy See is recognized as a sovereign state
In international law, meaning it is its own Gov. So I don't understand how the church is different from any other sovereign state. Like, I don't understand.

Sovereign state + atrocity = all people part of that sovereign state are to blame. But, the American gov is the exception? I don't get it.

Yeah you just don't get it.

You think a religion is the same as a country/gov't

And it's not just America. This would be the same thing if you were talking about Japan or England or Germany. Countries and they're governments are not equatable to religions in this context.

You just seem willing to ignore or not recognize what makes a gov't of a country different from a religion.

You can't excommunicate the whole mafia just like that in one big move tho imo.

It's funny cuz the one thing the mafia likes to do is never admit the mafia exists. So seeing this they'd be like so what? They'd be like how can you excommunicate something that isn't real?

 

[am1x90xnike]

Well. Tell me. What makes a sovereign state different from a religion, specifically the Catholic Church? It conducts its international affairs as a sovereign state, it has its own gov. It's own laws, it can petition other states to allow its subjects to come under its jurisdiction. Someone, please tell me the difference...we're not even talking about the Holy Roman Empire, were talking about today, in 2014, why isn't the Catholic Church a state?

 

[celticspride34]

Well. Tell me. What makes a sovereign state different from a religion, specifically the Catholic Church? It conducts its international affairs as a sovereign state, it has its own gov. It's own laws, it can petition other states to allow its subjects to come under its jurisdiction. Someone, please tell me the difference...we're not even talking about the Holy Roman Empire, were talking about today, in 2014, why isn't the Catholic Church a state?

Because the only punishment the church offers is hell... Which doesn't exist...

 

[niketalker23]

Well. Tell me. What makes a sovereign state different from a religion, specifically the Catholic Church? It conducts its international affairs as a sovereign state, it has its own gov. It's own laws, it can petition other states to allow its subjects to come under its jurisdiction. Someone, please tell me the difference...we're not even talking about the Holy Roman Empire, were talking about today, in 2014, why isn't the Catholic Church a state?

Because the only punishment the church offers is hell... Which doesn't exist...

You can't prove it does or doesn't exist now can you?

 

[am1x90xnike]

Historically - Spanish Inquisition (one of the atrocities)

Currently - Ecclastical law, which the church take jurisdiction of religious matters, with the Vatican maintaining a jail. It doesn't use it much, but it exists, so the punishment for breaking the rules isn't just 'hell' it's a very real place in Rome, no matter how much it is actually used.

 

[celticspride34]

Well. Tell me. What makes a sovereign state different from a religion, specifically the Catholic Church? It conducts its international affairs as a sovereign state, it has its own gov. It's own laws, it can petition other states to allow its subjects to come under its jurisdiction. Someone, please tell me the difference...we're not even talking about the Holy Roman Empire, were talking about today, in 2014, why isn't the Catholic Church a state?

Because the only punishment the church offers is hell... Which doesn't exist...

You can't prove it does or doesn't exist now can you?

No... And neither do you or anyone else on the planet... But I know for a fact that jail, prison, wage garnishment, and the death penalty exist...

So if you want to be oppressed by the government, AND the church, feel free... It's just a Damn stupid thing to do in my mind...