QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson

[DeadsetAce]

It's not telling. The position itself is always overdrafted in Round 1 vs 2-7. Just like no one wants to draft RB in Round 1 anymore.

More round 1 QB's that didn't make the playoffs, no? Telling?

No, narratives. See what you wanna see.

Don’t like 24 franchises start at 1st rounder at quarterback?

not sure if it's 24 but there's def more than playoff spots available, so the logic seems flawed to say there's more on the outside than on the inside. so I think there might be something there.

separately, and I'm not saying QB is the end all be all, but it feels like teams that have enjoyed sustained and continual success over a stretch of time (define that how you will), most of those franchises' QBs come from round 1-2. again, it FEELS that way. not sure if it is. but when I think last 15-20 years....Colts (Manning), Steelers (Ben), Saints (Brees), Packers (Rodgers), Chiefs (Mahomes), Ravens (Flacco/Lamar)

seems like that's where most of the true franchise guys are found...rounds 1-2. at least in the passing era

 

[CP1708]

Again, it "feels" that way because team after team after team climb over themselves to take QB's in round 1, year after year. Which includes those that don't belong.

You just saw 5 this year alone.

32 teams. Every team likely has a first round OLineman. Or Dlineman. Or Cornerback. Etc. Or multiple of those.

Colts went from Peyton to Luck to Rivers to Wentz. 1998 to 2022. One SB win to show for it. #Telling

Cowboys went from Romo to Dak, Zero SB's, but won 3 with first round pick Aikman. That must mean something!!!!!!!

(Ignore the 57 other draft picks Jimmy nailed in 3+ years)

 

[elpablo21]

I'm just saying you might be better off getting depth at LB in the 4th than drafting Connor Cook is all my point was

 

[CP1708]

I'm just saying you might be better off getting depth at LB in the 4th than drafting Connor Cook is all my point was

Thank you for telling me. Taking Aaron Donald is better than taking Blake Bottles too, fyi....

 

[DeadsetAce]

I'm not disputing the position is reached for too much. it absolutely is. I'm just saying I get why teams do it

 

[elpablo21]

Still can't believe the Jags choked that AFC championship game

 

[DeadsetAce]

Still can't believe the Jags choked that AFC championship game

chill

 

[CP1708]

I'm not disputing the position is reached for too much. it absolutely is. I'm just saying I get why teams do it

Yes, because everyone overrates the **** out of the position.

 

[nick.]

 

[CP1708]

1st and 2nd round running backs among playoff teams. (Like throwing in Drew Brees with the first round QBs....)

Jacobs
Michel
Edwards Helaire
Zeke
Fournette
Harris

Henry
Mixon
Sanders
Dillon

#Telling

#NotReally

 

[IATT]

Sanders might not even play though…

And has missed games





Plus the convo is about draft RBs in the 1st, while you can wait til the 2nd or 3rd or later

 

[mister friendly]

When teams draft a quarterback high in the draft, it normally gives coaches and front office more of a benefit of doubt and time with the owners and media especially if the quarterback flashes rather than if you draft a mid round quarterback prospect who is steady.

All of the non first rounders got some time to develop or went to a great roster.

 

[CP1708]

Last we see of Ben I hope.

Burrow vs Tannehill
Jimmy G vs Rodgers
Stafford/Murray vs Brady
Allen vs Mahomes

 

[elpablo21]

Last we see of Ben I hope.

Burrow vs Tannehill
Jimmy G vs Rodgers
Stafford/Murray vs Brady
Allen vs Mahomes

 

[IATT]

When teams draft a quarterback high in the draft, it normally gives coaches and front office more of a benefit of doubt and time with the owners and media especially if the quarterback flashes rather than if you draft a mid round quarterback prospect who is steady.

All of the non first rounders got some time to develop or went to a great roster.

disagree, to a degree.. you gotta look at it to a degree as a case by case basis

like Andy had the resume and standing to jump up for mahomes trading a future 1st with the intent of sitting him his first year.. Rodgers fell into the packers lap and they thought love fell into their lap too

but a high end 1st guy gives you a year, as long as you show a level of competency.. but you could end up in a dumpster of a situation where you’re forced to do things and either the QB starts developing bad habits or they get killed.. but we’re going see with the jets what happens next year depending on how things go

but youre not even guaranteed a great roster for mid round guys.. dak walked into probably the best oline of all time.. but Washington was still Washington for cousins

probably best to look at the actual teams and the infrastructure in place.. like the bengals tried but burrow should get credit for still overcoming the bengals

like for the eagles, we prioritize the oline in the draft and with development even when we have a crap ton of injuries we at least have a level of competency with the position group.. but I worry for the bengals who historically have been cheap as hell

 

[CP1708]

What's that message?

 

[CP1708]

I assume you are goin with this new narrative about you have to get your QB in round 1. (weird, considering you of all people should know better)

The Packers certainly did follow the advice. They traded up to get their QB…….Jordan Love. Oh, you mean Rodgers…..the guy that fell all the way to #24. The guy that was 6-9-1 three years ago, at 35, and now is far better, at 38…….I wonder how that changed, oh that’s right, a coaching change.

Jimmy G? We use him as an example do we? Or do we mean #3 overall, Trey Lance? How we doin this?

You folks in this thread really want to use Ryan Tannehill on YOUR SIDE of the discussion, about taking QB’s in the first round? Really? The audacity you must have to say this **** to my face. NOBODY, in this thread can use him as any sort of validation other than me. NOBODY.

Stafford was #1 overall, so CLEARLY he’s the man…….ya know, other than the entire decade in Detroit, he’s certainly the reason you go out and trade your #1 overall pick, for another #1 overall pick…..

Buffalo should be playin their QB that was drafted #2 overall, right? Trubisky should be starting, not Josh Allen. (Who by the way, every fan, media type, analyst, etc was ready to send to pasture just two years ago…..) (I absolutely want to study what they have done in terms of TRULY building around their guy)

As for Tampa…..I mean, they must be hustlin backwards, cuz they just drafted a QB #1 a few years ago, now they have a 6th round guy, surely that’s not right. Let’s move on.

KC traded up for Mahomes, but they had a QB who was taken #1 overall, aren’t they doing it backwards too?

Burrow #1 overall, rookie deal.

Kyler #1 overall, rookie deal.

In fact, Josh Allen and Mahomes are still on their rookie contracts this year as well. To wit……

2 QB’s in the top 5 of salaries, and one of them is Jimmy G. That certainly don’t help your narrative. And Rodgers famously being the dropped thru the round late first, not much of a help either. (Next year cap will look much diff with Dak, Watson, Mahomes, and Allen all having much bigger salaries, I wonder what it will do to their respective teams…..)

 

[elpablo21]

Jesus I'm just ****ing with you

 

[DeadsetAce]

You got him fired up

 

[CP1708]

Relax, not fired up, you know I was ready for that. I was waiting (impatiently) for him to explain his message, I already had that ready to go.

 

[CP1708]

I won't lie doe, I was PRAYING someone would try to use Tannehill being a first rounder against me. I ****ing quadruple dog dare one of you mother****ers to try me with that to make your point.

 

[IATT]

It’s football

You want the more talented guys, having coaching and players surrounding them helps.. having just the QB only going get you so far, just like only having a good offense will only get you so far

But there is a reason there are few examples of guys outside the 1st winning Super Bowls

But even within the talented 1st round guys, we’ve seen organizational failure and then they succeed elsewhere

Not up to date, but still:

 

[mister friendly]

Each draft year is different, it doesn’t necessarily work by overall draft position because each season each organization has different needs and commitments each season relative to the players available and players on their roster.

Basic example of this is 2019 the WFT drafts Haskins at 15, the next draft they have the 2nd overall pick, maybe they had Tua, Herbert, Love with similar grade to Haskins but they were unwillingly to spend another 1st round pick on a quarterback.

 

[651akathepaul]

Last we see of Ben I hope.

Burrow vs Tannehill
Jimmy G vs Rodgers
Stafford/Murray vs Brady
Allen vs Mahomes

I was patiently waiting on this too...I was guessing it had to do with the QBs not actually playing against each other like C CP1708 made it seem, but couldn't remember if that was ever an argument he made or not.

 

[CP1708]

I was patiently waiting on this too...I was guessing it had to do with the QBs not actually playing against each other like C CP1708 made it seem, but couldn't remember if that was ever an argument he made or not.

Oh no, I know it's not the head to head, so to speak, but we all know that's how the gen pop sees it. Kinda same thing as NBA when you have Giannis vs Steph, but they don't actually matchup, they're just the face of the rosters.

Brady v Peyton the most famous of them.

Or last year me wanting to see Mahomes v Rodgers, but Mahomes v Brady was still pretty good.

You can't possibly forget that I know and understand context on ALL levels with regards to QB's. Be it the defense they face, the defense of their own team, the coach they face, the other QB, the refs, homefield, all of it comes into context. Hell, this new Draft position context. I guess we count Trent Dilfer as a "First round QB that won a SB". I mean......

I dunno. I've always sort of been on my own in this thread with regards to value and meaning with QB. Lot of you guys live and die off it, I whole heartedly do not. And I don't waver on that. There are SOOOOO many factors that decide fates every single week and I point them out year after year, and each new year we act brand new and pretend like we learning nothing the previous year.

I mean, ****, Tom Brady looked like absolute **** in NE on his way out the door, then comes to Tampa and looks 28 again. I guess he got better????? Or did the entire situation around him get better? But we just Men In Black that the next season. Well, I don't, but everyone else does.