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too bad you weren't old enough to witness this guy's greatness......
coincidentally also played for the Kansas City Chiefs.
QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by 651akathepaul,
- Start date
coincidentally also played for the Kansas City Chiefs.
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elpablo21
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Interesting
dacomeup
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Doesn’t this go against @CP1708’s entire theory?
elpablo21
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no, not even a little bit. It's right there just framed differently. He uses > 10% of the cap. (Not sure why, but it's the number he chooses)
I use QB salary rank by year.
The reason for it is the name you see most.....
Brady may make > 10% of his teams cap, but he never makes Top 5 QB money AND HE'S TOM ****ING BRADY!!!!
He forever took less than market and his teams forever benefitted off it.
Steve Young in 1995. (94 season)
Pat Mahomes in 2023 (22 season)
These are your outliers. > 13% to win a SB.
These are various charts from articles I've read over the years. I'm not the only one that believes the theory........although, sadly.......I will admit, Colin Cowherd now believing this has me rethinking my stance.
Are you an NFL quarterback? Do you want to win, or even go to, a Super Bowl?
Well, you better take a pay cut.
I’ve had this theory for a while, as I’m sure many others have, given it’s certainly not a new sentiment. The more you pay a quarterback, the less you have to spend on the rest of the team, which in turn dictates talent and therefore correlates to success.
It makes sense, right? We’ve seen players themselves buy into this sentiment, restructuring contracts and even taking pay cuts for the ‘benefit of the team’. Tom Brady comes to mind on multiple occasions.
But was it more team/player speak? Meant to progress the team-first narrative of the ultimate team sport. Or was this actually the case?
I looked it up so you don’t have to and sure enough, it’s real.
In the last decade, no Super Bowl-winning quarterback was among the top three highest-paid quarterbacks in the preceding season. In fact, only one quarterback that even reached the Super Bowl in that time period fell into that category.
Using data on cap hits via overthecap.com, I went through every Super Bowl matchup dating back to 2012 and cross-referenced it with the three highest-paid quarterbacks that season. I not only proved that the theory of signal-caller salaries being inversely related to overall team success is true, but I also found a few surprises along the way.
For instance, last year, the Seahawks’ Russell Wilson had the highest cap hit at $32 million. Seattle finished 7-10 and at the bottom of the NFC West, watching the division-rival Rams hoist the Lombardi Trophy from home.
In 2018, when Jared Goff and the Los Angeles Rams went toe-to-toe with Brady’s Patriots in an underwhelming Super Bowl, Jimmy Garoppolo in San Francisco had the highest cap hit with $37 million. San Francisco went 4-12.
Then there’s 2011. Where Mark Sanchez was the league’s highest-paid quarterback, ahead of Peyton Manning with the Colts and Drew Brees with the Saints. The Jets finished 8-8 that year.
Kirk Cousins has made the most appearances as of late, and the results are all over the place. He has been in the top three thrice in the last five years: 2021, 2019 and 2017. In 2021, he and the Vikings went 8-9, a losing record. But in 2019, they went 10-6 and went to the playoffs. In 2017, Cousins was a member of that team in Washington and finished 7-9, for another losing record. His record as a quarterback (which is of debatable significance) is 59-59-2. Yet he’s routinely one of the highest-paid and takes up the lion’s share of his team’s cap.
Kudos to his agent, I guess.
The only outlier is Matt Ryan, when he had the third-highest cap hit in the league during the 2016 season. He went to the Super Bowl that year… only for the Falcons to blow a 28-3 lead to Brady’s Patriots.
In most other instances, it may not even be enough to say you won’t reach the Super Bowl with a top-paid quarterback. You may not even have a winning record. Or at least, the odds seem against you. But again, it makes sense. If you’re going to call football the ultimate team sport, you need talent all across the team. And in a league with a hard salary cap, if you have one player taking up a majority of the share, you have less money to draw said talent.
Now, as of late, it seems ‘creative’ accounting has become more prevalent in the NFL. And while the rise in voidable years to lessen cap hits doesn’t seem to be spilling over to quarterbacks, it does mean you can get talent at other positions that don’t count as heavily against the cap. That will be something to keep an eye on in the coming years.
Going into 2022, the quarterback with the highest cap hit is Tennessee’s Ryan Tannehill, at $38.6 million. He’s followed by Mahomes at $35.79 million and Cousins (yes, again) at $31.42 million.
Could this be the year that bucks the trend?
To view my full list of findings in the last decade, see below:
NFL Quarterback Cap Hits
2021
Super Bowl 56: Rams vs. Bengals (Stafford vs. Burrow)
Top 3:
Wilson ($32M)
Cousins ($31.16M)
Rodgers ($27.07M)
2020
Super Bowl 55: Chiefs vs. Bucs (Mahomes vs. Brady)
Top 3:
Dak ($31.41M)
Wilson ($31M)
Goff ($28.8M)
2019
Chiefs vs. 49ers (Mahomes vs. Garoppolo)
Top 3:
Stafford ($30.7M)
Rodgers ($29.35M)
Cousins ($29M)
2018
Patriots vs. Rams (Brady vs. Goff)
Top 3:
Garoppolo ($37M)
Stafford ($26.5M)
Carr ($25M)
2017
Eagles vs. Patriots (Foles vs. Brady)
Top 3:
Flacco ($24.5M)
Palmer ($24.13M)
Cousins (WAS) ($23.94)
2016
Patriots vs. Falcons (Brady vs. Ryan)
Top 3:
(Eli) Manning ($24.2M)
Roethlisberger ($23.95M)
Ryan ($23.75M)
2015
Broncos vs. Panthers (Peyton Manning vs. Newton)
Top 3:
Brees ($23.8M)
Rivers ($21.17M)
Ryan ($19.5M)
2014
Patriots vs. Seahawks (Brady vs. Wilson)
Top 3:
(Eli) Manning ($20.4M)
Roethlisberger ($18.9M)
Cutler ($18.5M)
2013
Seahawks vs. Broncos (Wilson vs. Peyton Manning)
Top 3:
Eli Manning ($20.85M)
Stafford ($17.82M)
(Peyton) Manning (DEN) ($17.5M)
2012
Ravens vs. 49ers (Flacco vs. Kaepernick)
Top 3:
Peyton Manning (DEN) ($18M)
Bradford ($15.6M)
Rivers ($15.31M)
2011
Giants vs. Patriots (Eli Manning vs. Brady)
Top 3:
Sanchez ($17.23M)
Peyton Manning ($16M)
Brees ($14.9
Pat Mahomes in 2023 (22 season)
These are your outliers. > 13% to win a SB.
These are various charts from articles I've read over the years. I'm not the only one that believes the theory........although, sadly.......I will admit, Colin Cowherd now believing this has me rethinking my stance.
Are you an NFL quarterback? Do you want to win, or even go to, a Super Bowl?
Well, you better take a pay cut.
I’ve had this theory for a while, as I’m sure many others have, given it’s certainly not a new sentiment. The more you pay a quarterback, the less you have to spend on the rest of the team, which in turn dictates talent and therefore correlates to success.
It makes sense, right? We’ve seen players themselves buy into this sentiment, restructuring contracts and even taking pay cuts for the ‘benefit of the team’. Tom Brady comes to mind on multiple occasions.
But was it more team/player speak? Meant to progress the team-first narrative of the ultimate team sport. Or was this actually the case?
I looked it up so you don’t have to and sure enough, it’s real.
In the last decade, no Super Bowl-winning quarterback was among the top three highest-paid quarterbacks in the preceding season. In fact, only one quarterback that even reached the Super Bowl in that time period fell into that category.
Using data on cap hits via overthecap.com, I went through every Super Bowl matchup dating back to 2012 and cross-referenced it with the three highest-paid quarterbacks that season. I not only proved that the theory of signal-caller salaries being inversely related to overall team success is true, but I also found a few surprises along the way.
For instance, last year, the Seahawks’ Russell Wilson had the highest cap hit at $32 million. Seattle finished 7-10 and at the bottom of the NFC West, watching the division-rival Rams hoist the Lombardi Trophy from home.
In 2018, when Jared Goff and the Los Angeles Rams went toe-to-toe with Brady’s Patriots in an underwhelming Super Bowl, Jimmy Garoppolo in San Francisco had the highest cap hit with $37 million. San Francisco went 4-12.
Then there’s 2011. Where Mark Sanchez was the league’s highest-paid quarterback, ahead of Peyton Manning with the Colts and Drew Brees with the Saints. The Jets finished 8-8 that year.
Kirk Cousins has made the most appearances as of late, and the results are all over the place. He has been in the top three thrice in the last five years: 2021, 2019 and 2017. In 2021, he and the Vikings went 8-9, a losing record. But in 2019, they went 10-6 and went to the playoffs. In 2017, Cousins was a member of that team in Washington and finished 7-9, for another losing record. His record as a quarterback (which is of debatable significance) is 59-59-2. Yet he’s routinely one of the highest-paid and takes up the lion’s share of his team’s cap.
Kudos to his agent, I guess.
The only outlier is Matt Ryan, when he had the third-highest cap hit in the league during the 2016 season. He went to the Super Bowl that year… only for the Falcons to blow a 28-3 lead to Brady’s Patriots.
In most other instances, it may not even be enough to say you won’t reach the Super Bowl with a top-paid quarterback. You may not even have a winning record. Or at least, the odds seem against you. But again, it makes sense. If you’re going to call football the ultimate team sport, you need talent all across the team. And in a league with a hard salary cap, if you have one player taking up a majority of the share, you have less money to draw said talent.
Now, as of late, it seems ‘creative’ accounting has become more prevalent in the NFL. And while the rise in voidable years to lessen cap hits doesn’t seem to be spilling over to quarterbacks, it does mean you can get talent at other positions that don’t count as heavily against the cap. That will be something to keep an eye on in the coming years.
Going into 2022, the quarterback with the highest cap hit is Tennessee’s Ryan Tannehill, at $38.6 million. He’s followed by Mahomes at $35.79 million and Cousins (yes, again) at $31.42 million.
Could this be the year that bucks the trend?
To view my full list of findings in the last decade, see below:
NFL Quarterback Cap Hits
2021
Super Bowl 56: Rams vs. Bengals (Stafford vs. Burrow)
Top 3:
Wilson ($32M)
Cousins ($31.16M)
Rodgers ($27.07M)
2020
Super Bowl 55: Chiefs vs. Bucs (Mahomes vs. Brady)
Top 3:
Dak ($31.41M)
Wilson ($31M)
Goff ($28.8M)
2019
Chiefs vs. 49ers (Mahomes vs. Garoppolo)
Top 3:
Stafford ($30.7M)
Rodgers ($29.35M)
Cousins ($29M)
2018
Patriots vs. Rams (Brady vs. Goff)
Top 3:
Garoppolo ($37M)
Stafford ($26.5M)
Carr ($25M)
2017
Eagles vs. Patriots (Foles vs. Brady)
Top 3:
Flacco ($24.5M)
Palmer ($24.13M)
Cousins (WAS) ($23.94)
2016
Patriots vs. Falcons (Brady vs. Ryan)
Top 3:
(Eli) Manning ($24.2M)
Roethlisberger ($23.95M)
Ryan ($23.75M)
2015
Broncos vs. Panthers (Peyton Manning vs. Newton)
Top 3:
Brees ($23.8M)
Rivers ($21.17M)
Ryan ($19.5M)
2014
Patriots vs. Seahawks (Brady vs. Wilson)
Top 3:
(Eli) Manning ($20.4M)
Roethlisberger ($18.9M)
Cutler ($18.5M)
2013
Seahawks vs. Broncos (Wilson vs. Peyton Manning)
Top 3:
Eli Manning ($20.85M)
Stafford ($17.82M)
(Peyton) Manning (DEN) ($17.5M)
2012
Ravens vs. 49ers (Flacco vs. Kaepernick)
Top 3:
Peyton Manning (DEN) ($18M)
Bradford ($15.6M)
Rivers ($15.31M)
2011
Giants vs. Patriots (Eli Manning vs. Brady)
Top 3:
Sanchez ($17.23M)
Peyton Manning ($16M)
Brees ($14.9
aepps20
Supporter
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Well said and I agree. I wish we had salary data on Bart Starr but he's before our time.Steve Young in 1995. (94 season)
Pat Mahomes in 2023 (22 season)
These are your outliers. > 13% to win a SB.
These are various charts from articles I've read over the years. I'm not the only one that believes the theory........although, sadly.......I will admit, Colin Cowherd now believing this has me rethinking my stance.
Are you an NFL quarterback? Do you want to win, or even go to, a Super Bowl?
Well, you better take a pay cut.
I’ve had this theory for a while, as I’m sure many others have, given it’s certainly not a new sentiment. The more you pay a quarterback, the less you have to spend on the rest of the team, which in turn dictates talent and therefore correlates to success.
It makes sense, right? We’ve seen players themselves buy into this sentiment, restructuring contracts and even taking pay cuts for the ‘benefit of the team’. Tom Brady comes to mind on multiple occasions.
But was it more team/player speak? Meant to progress the team-first narrative of the ultimate team sport. Or was this actually the case?
I looked it up so you don’t have to and sure enough, it’s real.
In the last decade, no Super Bowl-winning quarterback was among the top three highest-paid quarterbacks in the preceding season. In fact, only one quarterback that even reached the Super Bowl in that time period fell into that category.
Using data on cap hits via overthecap.com, I went through every Super Bowl matchup dating back to 2012 and cross-referenced it with the three highest-paid quarterbacks that season. I not only proved that the theory of signal-caller salaries being inversely related to overall team success is true, but I also found a few surprises along the way.
For instance, last year, the Seahawks’ Russell Wilson had the highest cap hit at $32 million. Seattle finished 7-10 and at the bottom of the NFC West, watching the division-rival Rams hoist the Lombardi Trophy from home.
In 2018, when Jared Goff and the Los Angeles Rams went toe-to-toe with Brady’s Patriots in an underwhelming Super Bowl, Jimmy Garoppolo in San Francisco had the highest cap hit with $37 million. San Francisco went 4-12.
Then there’s 2011. Where Mark Sanchez was the league’s highest-paid quarterback, ahead of Peyton Manning with the Colts and Drew Brees with the Saints. The Jets finished 8-8 that year.
Kirk Cousins has made the most appearances as of late, and the results are all over the place. He has been in the top three thrice in the last five years: 2021, 2019 and 2017. In 2021, he and the Vikings went 8-9, a losing record. But in 2019, they went 10-6 and went to the playoffs. In 2017, Cousins was a member of that team in Washington and finished 7-9, for another losing record. His record as a quarterback (which is of debatable significance) is 59-59-2. Yet he’s routinely one of the highest-paid and takes up the lion’s share of his team’s cap.
Kudos to his agent, I guess.
The only outlier is Matt Ryan, when he had the third-highest cap hit in the league during the 2016 season. He went to the Super Bowl that year… only for the Falcons to blow a 28-3 lead to Brady’s Patriots.
In most other instances, it may not even be enough to say you won’t reach the Super Bowl with a top-paid quarterback. You may not even have a winning record. Or at least, the odds seem against you. But again, it makes sense. If you’re going to call football the ultimate team sport, you need talent all across the team. And in a league with a hard salary cap, if you have one player taking up a majority of the share, you have less money to draw said talent.
Now, as of late, it seems ‘creative’ accounting has become more prevalent in the NFL. And while the rise in voidable years to lessen cap hits doesn’t seem to be spilling over to quarterbacks, it does mean you can get talent at other positions that don’t count as heavily against the cap. That will be something to keep an eye on in the coming years.
Going into 2022, the quarterback with the highest cap hit is Tennessee’s Ryan Tannehill, at $38.6 million. He’s followed by Mahomes at $35.79 million and Cousins (yes, again) at $31.42 million.
Could this be the year that bucks the trend?
To view my full list of findings in the last decade, see below:
NFL Quarterback Cap Hits
2021
Super Bowl 56: Rams vs. Bengals (Stafford vs. Burrow)
Top 3:
Wilson ($32M)
Cousins ($31.16M)
Rodgers ($27.07M)
2020
Super Bowl 55: Chiefs vs. Bucs (Mahomes vs. Brady)
Top 3:
Dak ($31.41M)
Wilson ($31M)
Goff ($28.8M)
2019
Chiefs vs. 49ers (Mahomes vs. Garoppolo)
Top 3:
Stafford ($30.7M)
Rodgers ($29.35M)
Cousins ($29M)
2018
Patriots vs. Rams (Brady vs. Goff)
Top 3:
Garoppolo ($37M)
Stafford ($26.5M)
Carr ($25M)
2017
Eagles vs. Patriots (Foles vs. Brady)
Top 3:
Flacco ($24.5M)
Palmer ($24.13M)
Cousins (WAS) ($23.94)
2016
Patriots vs. Falcons (Brady vs. Ryan)
Top 3:
(Eli) Manning ($24.2M)
Roethlisberger ($23.95M)
Ryan ($23.75M)
2015
Broncos vs. Panthers (Peyton Manning vs. Newton)
Top 3:
Brees ($23.8M)
Rivers ($21.17M)
Ryan ($19.5M)
2014
Patriots vs. Seahawks (Brady vs. Wilson)
Top 3:
(Eli) Manning ($20.4M)
Roethlisberger ($18.9M)
Cutler ($18.5M)
2013
Seahawks vs. Broncos (Wilson vs. Peyton Manning)
Top 3:
Eli Manning ($20.85M)
Stafford ($17.82M)
(Peyton) Manning (DEN) ($17.5M)
2012
Ravens vs. 49ers (Flacco vs. Kaepernick)
Top 3:
Peyton Manning (DEN) ($18M)
Bradford ($15.6M)
Rivers ($15.31M)
2011
Giants vs. Patriots (Eli Manning vs. Brady)
Top 3:
Sanchez ($17.23M)
Peyton Manning ($16M)
Brees ($14.9
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Yes everyone would like to pay their quarterback less but it’s not realistic. Brady is only one that consistently did it but he was married to a super model.
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lock up your QB as soon as you are able and then learn all the usual cap tricks (converting salary to bonuses and stuff to free up space)
put dummy years in the backend to spread out the signing bonus
but with the cap increases on a yearly basis paying a QB big only hurts you for what a max 2 years?
if your GM is a good one the QB contract shouldn’t be the burden
look at the cowboys dak contract ain’t the problem although they should have focused on paying early.. it’s zeke’s contract.. and that‘s still a double win team with a not so great coach and not great ownership/GMing
put dummy years in the backend to spread out the signing bonus
but with the cap increases on a yearly basis paying a QB big only hurts you for what a max 2 years?
if your GM is a good one the QB contract shouldn’t be the burden
look at the cowboys dak contract ain’t the problem although they should have focused on paying early.. it’s zeke’s contract.. and that‘s still a double win team with a not so great coach and not great ownership/GMing
DeadsetAce
Supporter
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this is really it
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there are so many little things teams can do.. even if it’s mortgaging the future
but you’re better off paying your young guy early and then you can build in dummy years and use those to manipulate things
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and stay active in the trade market and take advantage of other teams when/where you can
also stay on top of your scouting and identify key guys in not great situations or maybe not being played in an advantageous scheme for their skill
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So what we’re saying is the Browns are F’d?
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Tony romo had the 6th highest cap hit for a QB the year dak got drafted.. And the cowboys had to carry dead money on the cap 2 further years after because of romo
as I been saying it’s easy to look at a single thing/number
not factoring in the terrible coach(es), GM and/or ownership
2016 Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap
Ranking the top NFL 2016 Quarterback contracts and salaries in the NFL
overthecap.com
Tony Romo Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap
Tony Romo contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history
overthecap.com
as I been saying it’s easy to look at a single thing/number
not factoring in the terrible coach(es), GM and/or ownership
Last edited:
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It’s an excuse, you got a well paid quarterback you have to draft well and sign good FAs. The other half bemoans they have Zach Wilson and Malik Willis types. Cant have everything they say.
elpablo21
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Well that's interesting
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I get if the raiders complained under the old system when you had to pay top 10 picks a crap load and especially first overall guys
cause if you missed on draft picks you were super screwed because of the money tied into guys.. had guys just getting drafted being paid top 5 at their position just because of where they got drafted
but under the current system, first overall pick is making backup QB money
cowboys were doing obviously dumb things.. hell they could have paid dak when he was first eligible and his cap hit would be a whole lot lower now
hell go look at jerruh’s comments about keeping zeke, when they know damn well they’re about to tag pollard
DeadsetAce
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been waiting to discuss this. just finished it a couple days ago
i think we all know these guys on the field given how much we watch but off the field was pretty interesting. think cousins came off as super likable. just a super regular and nice dude...kinda has a goofy/gee golly feel about him. thought it was interesting how he's been able to negotiate tuesdays as 100% off. i know brady got special treatment down the end of the road but thought it was interesting that kirk does too. maybe a bunch of QBs do, who knows. mariota was just boring but his story was sort of an afterthought in the show, partly because of how his season went down i know. mahomes...something is just weird with him to me. doesn't take away from his ability as a QB but something about him was weird to me. the way he was re-telling what happened with him and maxx to everyone after the game, the string on nonsensical yes sir's...i dunno. kind of a disingenuous dude. weird dude kinda. that said, was cool seeing how he works out and what type of stuff and how he trains. found it interesting they didn't feature jackson at all in it given how often he's there with brittany and pat.
