Since When Did Michael Moore Speak For The American People?

[younganakin]

Originally Posted by randyoss

Originally Posted by YoungAnakin

Originally Posted by whywesteppin

Originally Posted by YoungAnakin

Originally Posted by whywesteppin

Two things. 1) I hate Michael Moore. 2) I don't think most people appreciate what goes into the health care system and what is wrong with it and what it takes to fix it. Most of all, I don't think Michael Moore understands. As long as we have an ever-increasing obesity/diabetes/hypertension crisis in this country (of which Michael Moore is the posterboy), as long as we have gross inefficiencies in the administration of health care, and (perhaps most of all) as long as "good care" is equated with "maximum care" (i.e. where doctors are afraid of undertreating patients as opposed to doing what they think is best), the health care system won't be fixed. Oh yeah, and if we "fix" health care without paying attention to the things the current system is good at (such as finding new treatments) we may end up with a whole lot of nothing.

lol @ L4L

what about the fact that HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES PROFIT FROM SICKNESS?

that is the SINGLE BIGGEST PROBLEM with our health insurance system as it stands now.

anything short of erasing health insurance companies is fruitless and, as you so simply described, "a whole lot of nothing".

My post didn't touch on that subject but it's a good point. In general, everyone involved in health care from doctors to pharmaceuticals to health insurance companies benefits from sickness. But we can't get rid of that type of conflict of interest completely, though. There has to be some level of trust and some type of safeguard.

I do think that health insurers are pretty inefficient and inflexible, and thus are a major source of the problem.

My main concern though is that it sounds like people are expecting way too much and I'm not sure where the extra benefits will come from. Like Friendliest Ghost is saying, someone will have to pick up the tab. With or without health insurance companies, health care is very expensive, out of proportion with the normal expenses of 99% of Americans.

wait, what?

hold on, let me make this clear: HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES PROFIT FROM SICKNESS.

doctors do not profit from sickness; they treat it (and sometimes cure it) and are appropriately paid for their services.

pharmaceutical companies offer products which treat (and sometimes cure) sickness and are, granted, disproportionately paid for their "services".

health insurance companies offer nothing. they are, in their most simple form, middle men in a market of sickness. it is their job to maximize revenue, reduce expenses, and increase profit... ON SICKNESS. it is disgusting, deplorable, and despicable. this isn't a conflict of interest, it's a conflict of morality! and why the hell can't we do away with it?

americans should absolutely expect health insurance from their government. jesus christ, the french are doing it...

and who should pick up the tab? the feds. raise taxes. CUT FUNDING TO EXHAUSTED AND IRRESPONSIBLE WAR EFFORTS. even as the public option proposal stood, no more money would have been spent on health care reform than what was spent 3 times over on the wars in iraq and afghanistan.

I agree completely!

Though I don't think it will ever happen b/c, at it's most base form, it's easier for proponents of the war (mainly in the far right) to scare Americans into thinking this war was, and still is, necessary.

Those people have their own power and grand schemes in their minds; not the safety and well-being of the American public.

enh... obama's the one offering descriptions of "necessity" when talking about the war in afghanistan (literal quote). the right can scream allthey want; the dems hold power in congress and 1600 pennsylvania avenue.

quote me: the wars in afghanistan and iraq will bleed out his presidency. not a defeat on health care reform, not backlash from an increasingly unpopularbailout of wall street... the continued war efforts in iraq and afghanistan will insidiously destroy his administration's pursued policies.

 

[randyoss]

Originally Posted by YoungAnakin

Originally Posted by randyoss

Originally Posted by YoungAnakin

Originally Posted by whywesteppin

Originally Posted by YoungAnakin

Originally Posted by whywesteppin

Two things. 1) I hate Michael Moore. 2) I don't think most people appreciate what goes into the health care system and what is wrong with it and what it takes to fix it. Most of all, I don't think Michael Moore understands. As long as we have an ever-increasing obesity/diabetes/hypertension crisis in this country (of which Michael Moore is the posterboy), as long as we have gross inefficiencies in the administration of health care, and (perhaps most of all) as long as "good care" is equated with "maximum care" (i.e. where doctors are afraid of undertreating patients as opposed to doing what they think is best), the health care system won't be fixed. Oh yeah, and if we "fix" health care without paying attention to the things the current system is good at (such as finding new treatments) we may end up with a whole lot of nothing.

lol @ L4L

what about the fact that HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES PROFIT FROM SICKNESS?

that is the SINGLE BIGGEST PROBLEM with our health insurance system as it stands now.

anything short of erasing health insurance companies is fruitless and, as you so simply described, "a whole lot of nothing".

My post didn't touch on that subject but it's a good point. In general, everyone involved in health care from doctors to pharmaceuticals to health insurance companies benefits from sickness. But we can't get rid of that type of conflict of interest completely, though. There has to be some level of trust and some type of safeguard.

I do think that health insurers are pretty inefficient and inflexible, and thus are a major source of the problem.

My main concern though is that it sounds like people are expecting way too much and I'm not sure where the extra benefits will come from. Like Friendliest Ghost is saying, someone will have to pick up the tab. With or without health insurance companies, health care is very expensive, out of proportion with the normal expenses of 99% of Americans.

wait, what?

hold on, let me make this clear: HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES PROFIT FROM SICKNESS.

doctors do not profit from sickness; they treat it (and sometimes cure it) and are appropriately paid for their services.

pharmaceutical companies offer products which treat (and sometimes cure) sickness and are, granted, disproportionately paid for their "services".

health insurance companies offer nothing. they are, in their most simple form, middle men in a market of sickness. it is their job to maximize revenue, reduce expenses, and increase profit... ON SICKNESS. it is disgusting, deplorable, and despicable. this isn't a conflict of interest, it's a conflict of morality! and why the hell can't we do away with it?

americans should absolutely expect health insurance from their government. jesus christ, the french are doing it...

and who should pick up the tab? the feds. raise taxes. CUT FUNDING TO EXHAUSTED AND IRRESPONSIBLE WAR EFFORTS. even as the public option proposal stood, no more money would have been spent on health care reform than what was spent 3 times over on the wars in iraq and afghanistan.

I agree completely!

Though I don't think it will ever happen b/c, at it's most base form, it's easier for proponents of the war (mainly in the far right) to scare Americans into thinking this war was, and still is, necessary.

Those people have their own power and grand schemes in their minds; not the safety and well-being of the American public.

enh... obama's the one offering descriptions of "necessity" when talking about the war in afghanistan (literal quote). the right can scream all they want; the dems hold power in congress and 1600 pennsylvania avenue.

quote me: the wars in afghanistan and iraq will bleed out his presidency. not a defeat on health care reform, not backlash from an increasingly unpopular bailout of wall street... the continued war efforts in iraq and afghanistan will insidiously destroy his administration's pursued policies.

Yeah, who knows why he switched (at least from what I recall of his pre-election rhetoric). That, however, could just be a politician thing asmany politicians do that.

Despite that, I also think that it didn't really matter who won the election in the sense that whoever won would have inherited this mess. I honestly thinkthat no one would be able to truly fix it, at least not in 4 years and maybe not even in 8.

Of course does anyone really believe that any of the candidates would have really ended the wars asap? Really?

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by Biggie62

Originally Posted by da703trailblaza

I'm bored so I'll play.

OJ, You're absolutely correct. However I like discussions and debate and if I can get somebody to question their views or even research the positions they hold, I'll be happy. My problem is more with him representing his views as something all Americans agree with.

AR, I listen to CSPAN every morning in the car and it seems like the opponents vastly outnumber the supporters (although I guess thats to be expected). Poll numbers also indicate that people are increasingly growing skeptical about Government takeover of health care.

Finally, why are you disappointed that there is debate going on about health care? Shouldn't everything be thoroughly debated and alternatives explored? I'm appalled by the shotgun approach used by both sides to get legislation through.

Of course most politicians are against it. Their campaigns are sponsored and funded by HMOs. I loved that senator from Arkansas who was against the nationalization of healthcare. Yet roughly 1/3 of his state is uninsured.

This whole debate with politicians has to do with who funds their campaigns more than anything. And HMOs fund a good portion of the campaigns out there. And we all should know that you have to sell out your beliefs to break through our corrupted political system. Then again its not like any other political system out there isn't corrupted in some way.

Oh well, guess more people will have to go bankrupt, go into foreclosure, or die just because they can't afford to get a healthcare plan and their employer doesn't have one. Nice one conservatives!!!

truth

and i think democrats are the most chicken, vagina, politicians on the face of the earth. Say what you want about republicans, but they get +!$% done.

If the republicans had a super majority, we would see abortion outlawed

 

[pdouly33]

Michael Moore is citing the recent New York Times poll where 65% of Americans support a public option for health care.

If he was just advocating for the public option, then he would be speaking on behalf of the American people.

But of course, he's Michael Moore, so he exaggerates to make his points. You've got to take what he says with a grain of salt.

Originally Posted by da703trailblaza

He's planning on campaigning against Democrats who oppose the National Plan.

Good. He should. Max Baucus, Bill Nelson, Kent Conrad, Blanche Lincoln, and Tom Carper have caved for a variety of reasons.

Blanche Lincoln, for example, used to clearly support the public option until she saw her reelection polls where she is trailing multiple Republicanchallengers in the 2010 Arkansas Senate election.

Max Baucus said he voted against the public option amendment because a bill with that amendment wouldn't get 60 votes in the Senate. Of course it won'tif hacks like you won't vote for it.

To the best of our knowledge (opinion polls), the majority of Americans support a public option. Our politicians are well aware of this. The Senate FinanceCommittee has seized the power in this debate and something must be done to shift the debate away from them.

 

[whywesteppin]

Originally Posted by YoungAnakin

Originally Posted by whywesteppin

Originally Posted by YoungAnakin

Originally Posted by whywesteppin

Two things. 1) I hate Michael Moore. 2) I don't think most people appreciate what goes into the health care system and what is wrong with it and what it takes to fix it. Most of all, I don't think Michael Moore understands. As long as we have an ever-increasing obesity/diabetes/hypertension crisis in this country (of which Michael Moore is the posterboy), as long as we have gross inefficiencies in the administration of health care, and (perhaps most of all) as long as "good care" is equated with "maximum care" (i.e. where doctors are afraid of undertreating patients as opposed to doing what they think is best), the health care system won't be fixed. Oh yeah, and if we "fix" health care without paying attention to the things the current system is good at (such as finding new treatments) we may end up with a whole lot of nothing.

lol @ L4L

what about the fact that HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES PROFIT FROM SICKNESS?

that is the SINGLE BIGGEST PROBLEM with our health insurance system as it stands now.

anything short of erasing health insurance companies is fruitless and, as you so simply described, "a whole lot of nothing".

My post didn't touch on that subject but it's a good point. In general, everyone involved in health care from doctors to pharmaceuticals to health insurance companies benefits from sickness. But we can't get rid of that type of conflict of interest completely, though. There has to be some level of trust and some type of safeguard.

I do think that health insurers are pretty inefficient and inflexible, and thus are a major source of the problem.

My main concern though is that it sounds like people are expecting way too much and I'm not sure where the extra benefits will come from. Like Friendliest Ghost is saying, someone will have to pick up the tab. With or without health insurance companies, health care is very expensive, out of proportion with the normal expenses of 99% of Americans.

wait, what?

hold on, let me make this clear: HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES PROFIT FROM SICKNESS.

doctors do not profit from sickness; they treat it (and sometimes cure it) and are appropriately paid for their services.

pharmaceutical companies offer products which treat (and sometimes cure) sickness and are, granted, disproportionately paid for their "services".

health insurance companies offer nothing. they are, in their most simple form, middle men in a market of sickness. it is their job to maximize revenue, reduce expenses, and increase profit... ON SICKNESS. it is disgusting, deplorable, and despicable. this isn't a conflict of interest, it's a conflict of morality! and why the hell can't we do away with it?

americans should absolutely expect health insurance from their government. jesus christ, the french are doing it...

and who should pick up the tab? the feds. raise taxes. CUT FUNDING TO EXHAUSTED AND IRRESPONSIBLE WAR EFFORTS. even as the public option proposal stood, no more money would have been spent on health care reform than what was spent 3 times over on the wars in iraq and afghanistan.

Don't health insurance companies profit the most if people don't get sick? It's insurance. People pay their premium. Insurance companies lose whenpeople go to the hospital and the health insurance company has to pick up the tab.

 

[lazy b]

http://www.youtube.com/v/Hdr49iGZOUw&hl=en&fs=1&hd=1http://www.youtube.com/v/Hdr49iGZOUw&hl=en&fs=1&hd=1

 

[jstar25]

Like anyone I can agree with some angles of thought but not all.

I have not seen any of his movies but I will be going to see this one.

 

[devildog1776]

MM speaks for the individual who sees through the dog and pony show we call politics... Obama ain't got no real power. He talks a good game but his actionsare a different story...

- war in iraq/afghan
- spent more money in 1 yr than bush did in 8
- gitmo closing
- his refusal for a 9/11 reinvestigation


In the words of gerald celente " by their deeds so you shall know them"