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So... No One Is Gonna Talk About the Gucci/Prada Blackface Thing?
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by slaughterx,
- Start date
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Sometimes it's okay to just say you specifically aren't bothered by things instead of carrying on like there's no logical reason why people should be bothered
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And IF you aren't bothered, sit-out of the conversation.
We have gone through this before.
It adds NOTHING to ANY argument by telling folks, "You shouldn't feel that way."
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Have you ever offended someone unintentionally? I know i have. Did you want them to forgive you? I know i did.
People aren't always 100% aware of others soft spots/insecurities. Dude made a valid point and it is plausible.
Do you think it's possible for a person to be 'too sensitive'? Serious question.
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please tell me how that Pokemon offended you. i totally understand how the recent Gucci and Prada issues can be seen as offensive, but i'm having a hard time understanding how a Pokemon offended you. the thing doesn't even talk.
from what you're saying, ANYTHING black is offensive at this point. Pikachu is small and yellow. Asian people are discriminated as yellow and they're fairly short in terms of average height. should they all be offended that they created that Pokemon?
this isn't a Simpsons or Family Guy skit. they made up hundreds of animals for a TV show, and the one that happened to be black is offensive. yeah, i'm not that sensitive to thinking everything offends someone. then again, that's how the world is today. someone always gotta make it a big deal.
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I never said Pokemon offended ME.
However, I believe it is a racially offensive character.
We can dead OUR conversation because your discussion style is all over the place with your random (poor) analogies.
Enjoy your day
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you gotta look at it innocuously from da atand point of a foreign culture with no grasp of american history.
can't say "welp google is there..if Country_____ thinks its offensive than country_____ should relent and stop what they're doing... doesn't work like that.
look at da dutch/Spanish with black pete...he's part of children's version of Christmas over there...what you gonna do, rip their stuff apart cuz it doesn't fit da cultural norms here? you wanna really open that Pandora's box?
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Bingo. That Pokémon looks like a stretch considering it’s a Pokémon. Same with Mr popo but I won’t tell everyone to agree with me.
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I don't believe these companies are that oblivious to Black Face.
It is that simple.
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If you have been in an environment where things are made, you know that ideas get reviewed, sometimes multiple times, before commercial release.
I don't know how some of you don't make the connection between the existence of multiple samples of the same sneaker and the fact that, regardless of the industry, releasing offensive products is a team/company decision.
I don't know how some of you don't make the connection between the existence of multiple samples of the same sneaker and the fact that, regardless of the industry, releasing offensive products is a team/company decision.
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Japan actually has a pretty long history of black face portrayals... and if Jynx is supposed to be modeled after an animal, which one would it be?
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I’ll go a step further and say it’s impossible to be oblivious to it along with all the other things they do.
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There are non animal Pokémon
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that's the point i'm driving at. how is it offensive? because it happened to be black, so it is automatically associated with black face?
my analogies are poor? the only thing you've pointed out is that anything black is automatically racist.
ever thought that they made hundreds of Pokemon of different colors, that all have faces, so they made a black Pokemon? or are we to omit that color entirely.
i'm trying to genuinely understand how someone can be offended by that Pokemon enough to the point they had to change the color. i'm asking questions and the only responses i get are "its racist", "its offensive", "you dont get it". i'm asking for an intellectual response, and not just the repeated "oh its black face". is it black face because thats merely your perception? again, hundreds of Pokemon were made, one was black.
thats, why the question is "WHY?"
but i rest my case.
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Jynx definitely is black face, otherwise Nintendo wouldn't have changed it...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BRAB&usg=AOvVaw1kRwKa5nHMkqo3ExLudYNc&cf=1
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BRAB&usg=AOvVaw1kRwKa5nHMkqo3ExLudYNc&cf=1
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Jynx is representative of the stereotype of voodoo, mysticism and evil prevalent in western society
If they made a Pokemon with a big moustache and threw pizzas you'd associate it with italians
If they made a Pokemon with a big moustache and threw pizzas you'd associate it with italians
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Not sure how you can look at Jynx, the Gucci sweater, and the other black faced red lipped pics in these last few pages and say you don't see the connection
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If you want to have an honest undersanding, maybe you shouldn't constantly tell people their outrage is unwarranted/undeserving.
You don't sound like someone who wants to learn, you sound like someone that wants to dismiss .
Change your aoproach and humble yourself.
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This is the view I take on some of these "It could be intentional racism, or it might actually be a mistake". In this specific incident with Gucci, I personally think it was a failed attempt to continue with their tacky "Look at me!!!" style they've been promoting the past few years, but I am not completely ruling out actual racism or judging anyone that 100% thinks it's meant to offend black people
TO ME, at the very least, they should've been more responsible and aware of what could offend a large % of their clientele, and they should definitely have more diverse teams in order to make sure these things don't happen.
It's not on the same level of blackface, but I'll give an example of a promotion my company was about to run last year. Our marketing team was about to put an ad on FB which I thought was funny, but our CEO stepped in last minute and said "No, this could be interpreted as offensive from people from the South". What many of these European companies are missing is that type of voice
As a non black person, if you showed me that same Gucci sweater a decade ago, blackface would not have been the first thing that came to my mind. Even this time I only saw it because a lot of black people on NT have informed me over the years about what kind of non-obvious imagery could be offensive.
Same thing with Jynx; when I was a kid, I never once identified Jynx as a black caricature. I honestly just thought it was a weird @#$ Pokemon; we used to compare Jynx to one of my friends that started ODng her makeup and hair dye back in the day
This is why it's important to have diversity, so you can learn from your mistakes/lack of knowledge and make sure it doesn't happen again.
TO ME, I think it's ok to forgive and move on if the correct steps have been taken, but I completely understand if others don't feel the same, especially black people who routinely have to deal with this from all sorts of companies.
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the lengths this dude ninja goes to are both hilarious and sad
and just to chime in if you think a company as big as gucci made a "mistake" like this you're an idiot they just trying to see what they can get away with
and just to chime in if you think a company as big as gucci made a "mistake" like this you're an idiot they just trying to see what they can get away with
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you gotta look at it innocuously from da atand point of a foreign culture with no grasp of american history.
can't say "welp google is there..if Country_____ thinks its offensive than country_____ should relent and stop what they're doing... doesn't work like that.
look at da dutch/Spanish with black pete...he's part of children's version of Christmas over there...what you gonna do, rip their stuff apart cuz it doesn't fit da cultural norms here? you wanna really open that Pandora's box?
and that's my point. what other countries/brands consider to just be thing A, doesn't mean its subliminally intended to be racist. our perception is different because of the racial issues we have in the US.
not once did i say it wasn't warranted or that people were wrong to feel offended. i kept asking "why" and "how" was it offensive. i still haven't gotten a straight answer, except that some perceive it to be black face. my counter argument was that there are hundreds of made up Pokemon and one happened to be black. all of the Pokemon have different faces of different colors. so if it was intentionally done to represent black face, then i understand how one can be offended. however, there is a growing notion in our society that people look to be victimized, and that's not exclusive to racial issues.had this cartoon been made in the US, then there's definitely a deeper meaning to a black Pokemon with red lips. considering this is a foreign country, they may not have been aware to the ramifications on making a black Pokemon, because they aren't immediately thinking about the possible racial perception. just like the example above that
sfc415
made. again, if the narrative were "yeah they made this to mock black people" or whatever, then yes that's even offensive to me considering my relationships. BUT i look at the adverse as well, to if its actually offensive to people or if people are just finding another reason to feel victimized.
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This is the race version of the Gillette commercial fiasco......
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That doesn't mean that they should double down on their ignorance. The character in Spain and Netherlands is definitely offensive to black Spanish and Dutch people, let alone black Americans. Blackface is NOT just an American thing.
There's a reason Spain has started to change their "tradition" recently by having an actual black person play the character in the official festival vs. having a Spanish dude in blackface.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/17/madrid-ends-blacking-up-post-christmas-tradition
In Madrid, authorities promised to find a black person to play the role of Balthazar in this year’s post-Christmas three kings cavalcade, putting an end to a nearly four-decade tradition for the city’s biggest street parade.
“This change is much more than just anecdotal,” Socialist city councillor Mar Espinar said on Wednesday. Her party has spent years championing changes to the event. “Given the increasingly large community of colour in our city, it seems absurd that this role continues to be represented by a person with their face blackened.”
Over in the Dutch capital of The Hague meanwhile, the education board said elementary schools would no longer use Santa helpers with painted black faces, another holiday tradition that had caused considerable offence.
The move, which came after the United Nations called last month for the “Black Pete” practice to be modified to avoid reflecting negative stereotypes, is the broadest measure against the practice, and will affect more than 160 schools, Reuters reported.
A majority of Dutch people reject any suggestion that Black Pete, typically played by white people in blackface, is racist. But many others disagree. Starting this year, schools in The Hague will begin phasing out the use of blackface, curly hair wigs and red painted lips, with the changes to be completed within three years. They will be replaced with visually neutral Santa servants.
