someone PLEASE explain to me how making potential NBA players stay in college is a good thing

[osh kosh bosh]

Why is an athlete's salary which he would be giving up, such a big thing for you?  Why does it matter?  We are having a discussion of the merits of making players go to college, and all you and others have come up with is "well he would be missing out on ____ dollars."

To me, that is not the main focus of this discussion.  It seems to be with you, and it seems to be with a few others.  What I am interested in, is making the college game better, and making the pro game better.

Requiring players to play 2 years in college will make the college game exponentially better.  This shouldnt even warrant a discussion.

Requiring players to play 2 years in college will make AT WORST, make no difference in the college game.  Some would argue it would make the NBA game better....which I dont necessarily agree with.  But it certainly wouldnt make the NBA game worse.

So going back to my point, an age requirement would make college better and at worst make the NBA no different than it is now.

Yet, you and others are against it because it hurts the athletes wallets.  Its just astonishing to me that you guys would choose making these guys richer, over enhancing the college game. 

I am choosing what is fair and RIGHT, morally and legally.

why are you for the enrichment of a the NCAA at the expense of large mostly minority class of people?


I don't care who it enriches, that statement just makes it seem like you have some sort of resentment towards those athletes who are getting exploited.

 

[kidoopz]

1 And Done Players do Not hurt the NBA. Only colleges suffer the fate of not fully pulling in all the attainable revenue and publicity on a "hyped" individual. I don't see the college game lacking at all and I am an avid watcher. Now there are points in time where I feel some guys should just stay in college for an extra year to improve their game ie: Tyrus Thomas, Oj Mayo, Josh Selby, Shabazz, but that's the risk that player makes. And there were also 1 and done players who I thought would not benefit at all if they returned for a sophomore year, ie Mike Conley, Kevin Durant, Carmelo, Beasley, anthony davis. Outside of Conley those other 4 were on another level. What's the point of keeping them other than $$$? ?

Case being I think if you're on a top tier level in the college game, let that man Go get some experience playing with men. It's all about development. There are players who are Juniors and Seniors who are Just Poo as well as freshmens and sophmores. But Freshmens and High School Players have been the best players in this league since well.. A MINUTE! It's all about who's advising these players and getting the right people behind them to make the proper decision.

I am not for this rule.

 

[JD617]

It's almost as if that is their belief. Like somehow, Lebron wouldnt be Lebron if he went to Ohio State for a year or 2.

I mean this is hilarious, you think LeBron should've been forced to give up 1 or 2 years' salary while risking injury, playing for free while making the NCAA millions, and not developing to the same extent as he did in the league, at a time when he was good enough to average 27-7-7 in the NBA. How does this make sense?

Why is an athlete's salary which he would be giving up, such a big thing for you?  Why does it matter?  We are having a discussion of the merits of making players go to college, and all you and others have come up with is "well he would be missing out on ____ dollars."

To me, that is not the main focus of this discussion.  It seems to be with you, and it seems to be with a few others.  What I am interested in, is making the college game better, and making the pro game better.

Requiring players to play 2 years in college will make the college game exponentially better.  This shouldnt even warrant a discussion.

Requiring players to play 2 years in college will make AT WORST, make no difference in the college game.  Some would argue it would make the NBA game better....which I dont necessarily agree with.  But it certainly wouldnt make the NBA game worse.

So going back to my point, an age requirement would make college better and at worst make the NBA no different than it is now.

Yet, you and others are against it because it hurts the athletes wallets.  Its just astonishing to me that you guys would choose making these guys richer, over enhancing the college game. 

This is so incredibly backwards. Flip this around, why do you care so much about making the college game better? Why do you care about a system that's completely illogical and outdated? Why do you NOT care about players getting what they rightfully deserve?

 

[cashbanks]

I thought one year of college was more than enough

Unless this is a way to get guys to just go the d-league route I don't get the point the myth that some how guys won't still flame out if they go to college longer is absurd

If a guy is ready to play in the L at 18 he should be allowed to

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Even If I were to accept the quality of the coaching (I don't its mostly poor).

I am really curious as to what makes you feel this way. What form of evidence are you basing it off of? Most college coaching is poor? Why? Are you basing this off of what happens in the games? Even though games account for less than 10% of all coaching that is done during any week.

Who are these great coaches in college teaching players post moves, Dwight has had Ewing, McHale, Hakeem at his disposal while in the nba

I understand all of those players were great post players but does that automatically mean they are the best teachers of the post game? Something to ponder.

 

[victor page]

At the end of the day...nobody is holding guns to a GMs head saying "draft the 18 year or else".

Go draft McDermott #1 if you think Wiggins or Parker aren't ready.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

.

At the end of the day...nobody is holding guns to a GMs head saying "draft the 18 year or else".

Go draft McDermott #1 if you think Wiggins or Parker aren't ready.

Come on Vic Page, who is really saying all of THAT though?

 

[ricardo malta]

At the end of the day...nobody is holding guns to a GMs head saying "draft the 18 year or else".

Go draft McDermott #1 if you think Wiggins or Parker aren't ready.

It's about covering their butt tho. If they have to stay in college for 2 years then the pressure to take a Wiggins or Parker 1st or 2nd after their freshmen year isn't there. They also don't have to deal with the backlash if they pass on a Wiggins or Parker and they end up being successful.

It's easier to tell what kind of product you're getting after 2 years, thus making your investment more credible and justifiable.

 

[dland24]

This is so incredibly backwards. Flip this around, why do you care so much about making the college game better? Why do you care about a system that's completely illogical and outdated? Why do you NOT care about players getting what they rightfully deserve?

You cant be serious with this. Why do I care about making the college game better? Umm....because I am a normal, every day fan, thats why. I dont know these athletes personally. Why should I as a fan, value these players making a huge amount of money over the quality of the sport I enjoy watching being a better product? Especially given the fact that said athletes would be making that huge amount of money anyways, just a couple years later.

 

[dland24]

I am choosing what is fair and RIGHT, morally and legally.

why are you for the enrichment of a the NCAA at the expense of large mostly minority class of people?


I don't care who it enriches, that statement just makes it seem like you have some sort of resentment towards those athletes who are getting exploited.

First of all, legally? There is nothing illegal about having an age limit. Nothing. As far as morally wrong to have age limits, where do you draw the line? What if Lebron wanted to go pro after his junior year in high school? Dont you think Bron would have been physically talented enough to play in the league at 17? I do. Would it still have been wrong to deny him this chanc?

I have absolutely nothing against the minority class of people making money....come on now. I have no resentment towards athletes getting paid. Im a huge baseball fan for gods sake. Get your money. Thats fine. An overwhelming majority of these players would still be getting paid....only a couple years later. Its not as if the NBA wont let these players get paid. They will. They just need to wait.

And save the whole enrichment of the NCAA thing. That has nothing to do with it either. I just would rather the NCAA be a better product.

 

[antbanks81]

I browsed thru and didn't see this point made...

instead of blocking these kids, how about holding the scouts, GMs and coaches accountable? So many people are saying kids aren't ready and are ruining the league, but no one is calling out the EXECUTIVES drafting them off potential, a good March Madness showing or strictly hype. I feel like if the kid doesn't pan out in the NBA, he can still earn a living in the d league or overseas...or he can take some college loans out and go back to school and get another career.

its an adult decision when they declare...if they **** up by partying and not giving it their all, they have to face the consequences.

 

[JD617]

At least you're admitting it's about your own personal fandom instead of what's actually right.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

First of all, legally? There is nothing illegal about having an age limit. Nothing. As far as morally wrong to have age limits, where do you draw the line? What if Lebron wanted to go pro after his junior year in high school? Dont you think Bron would have been physically talented enough to play in the league at 17? I do. Would it still have been wrong to deny him this chanc?

Not allowing a minor vs is an adult is completely different, two cartels meeting in order to restrict the economic mobility of a class of people is an anti trust issues, the popularity of college sports is the only thing that prevents it from being challenged in court.

I have absolutely nothing against the minority class of people making money....come on now. I have no resentment towards athletes getting paid. Im a huge baseball fan for gods sake. Get your money. Thats fine. An overwhelming majority of these players would still be getting paid....only a couple years later. Its not as if the NBA wont let these players get paid. They will. They just need to wait.

For a professional athlete every year they are getting paid is crucial, especially for a cap sport with a rookie scale, the longer they aren't paid professionals the farther they from free agency the farther they are from market value fro services.

I think Kevin Garnett made something like 70 million dollars more in career earnings than Tim Duncan.

Its about money.

And save the whole enrichment of the NCAA thing. That has nothing to do with it either. I just would rather the NCAA be a better product.

at the expense and exploitation of the athletes, exploitation isn't right no matter how much you like college basketball.

What I mean by morally is:

If you believe in fairness, liberty and the rule of law the NCAA is an affront to all of these things. period.

Its a modern day plantation and it should no longer be allowed to exist in its current form.

 

[mr marcus]

There needs to be a MLB or a European system......hell these players can still opt for Europe outta HS but they don't wanna go through the grind current NBA players w/ Euro backgrounds had to go through 

**** aint easy and most work their way up through the ranks. They don't baby players overseas like they do here.

 

[ricardo malta]

There needs to be a MLB or a European system......hell these players can still opt for Europe outta HS but they don't wanna go through the grind current NBA players w/ Euro backgrounds had to go through 

**** aint easy and most work their way up through the ranks. They don't baby players overseas like they do here.

Not only are these dudes not mentally and emotionally ready for the Euro grind but I also think most aren't really ready for the NBA grind either.

Hell, half these dudes go through their first year of college not being able to handle the rigors of the college season mixed with their student responsibilities.

 

[cashbanks]

Not allowing a minor vs is an adult is completely different, two cartels meeting in order to restrict the economic mobility of a class of people is an anti trust issues, the popularity of college sports is the only thing that prevents it from being challenged in court.
For a professional athlete every year they are getting paid is crucial, especially for a cap sport with a rookie scale, the longer they aren't paid professionals the farther they from free agency the farther they are from market value fro services.

I think Kevin Garnett made something like 70 million dollars more in career earnings than Tim Duncan.

Its about money.
at the expense and exploitation of the athletes, exploitation isn't right no matter how much you like college basketball.

What I mean by morally is:

If you believe in fairness, liberty and the rule of law the NCAA is an affront to all of these things. period.

Its a modern day plantation and it should no longer be allowed to exist in its current form.

Pretty much sums it up

NCAA is a joke

 

[JD617]

 

I think it increases the quality of the players entering the NBA, although dudes like Kobe and LBJ kinda make that theory look bad 

This argument would the equivalent to people comparing everyday college dropouts to Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.

Not even close to the same thing. 

Shades of Michael Scott.

In stark contrast to popular myth, this Article finds that players drafted straight out of high school are not only likely to do well in the NBA, but are likely to become better players than any other age group entering the league. In fact, on average, these players perform better in every major statistical category than does the average NBA player or the average NBA player of any age cohort. Beyond excellence in performance, high school players can also earn substantially more over the course of their NBA careers, largely due to the brief, but steep career earnings-curve of professional basketball players, as well as collectively-bargained labor conditions concerning free agency. Strikingly, players who bypass college may earn as much as $100 million more over the course of their careers than had they earned a college diploma.

KG, Kobe, Jermaine O'Neal, T-Mac, Harrington, Rashard Lewis, Tyson Chandler, Amare, LeBron, Kendrick Perkins, Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Big Al, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Andrew Bynum, Monta Ellis, Lou Williams, Andray Blatche, Amir Johnson, all had/having long and productive careers.

 

[IATT]

^ if the policy goes to 20 years old or 2 years removed from high school or whatever.. you have to include the 1 and done guys to the that list

 

[beh235]

P4L

 

[hometownhero]

 
I think it increases the quality of the players entering the NBA, although dudes like Kobe and LBJ kinda make that theory look bad 

This.

And those guys are a rare breed. A lot of one and done guys go to the league and flop.  

 

[victor page]

This.

And those guys are a rare breed. A lot of one and done guys go to the league and flop.  

A lot of juniors do as well.

The bottom line is that this **** isn't an exact science. Toying with the age limit isn't going to have any real effect on the quality of the NBA.

The real change needs to begin with the youth developmental stages. We need to take a real look at the summer circuit and camps. The "business" of basketball is beginning way to early and a lot of kids have gotten lost in the shuffle. You got a lot of so called AAU coaches and street agents that really don't give a **** about kids unless they can see what's in it for them in the long run. Its a dirty game that needs to be cleaned up. Basketball wise...a good portion of these dudes futures depend on an AAU system where they pretty much roll the ball out there and run wild. A lot of the "development" a lot of people think goes on at the college level needs to start much earlier. That's why you have all these 6'10+ big men with 40 inch verticals but wouldn't know a post move if it hit em in the face. That's why you have all these athletic wings with JR Smith syndrome that will dunk on you and bomb away from deep but can't spell "mid range".

Add in this YouTube highlight reel era that even 2 and 3 star prospects have...and **** is all bad. When they put this rule in...chances are there won't be a single thing we'll be able to identify and say " his rule helped the league" or "this rule helped the kids".

That extra year of school isn't going to turn an Andrew Wiggins into Kobe Bryant and its not going to turn a Daniel Orton into a serviceable big man. Development is PURELY up to that individual at that point. Deandre Jordan could have been Daniel Orton. He was a disappointing freshman that left too early they said...and a 2nd re pick at that. He put in the work to be what he is right now. Not Texas A&M.

 

[beh235]

^ I could not agree with you more. AAU and the ESPN culture has ruined fundamentals terribly.

 

[dman14]

josh shelby out of the league yet?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This.

And those guys are a rare breed. A lot of one and done guys go to the league and flop.  

not true.

High school draft guys were generally more safer picks than college guys.

People think its just Kobe Lebron, KG, but they forget the Monta Ellis, Amir Johnsons, Andray Blatche, C. J. Miles, Lou Williams who also went to have long productive NBA careers.

Some of the bigger busts in the one and done era have stayed multiple years in school, Even Turner, Hasheem Thabeet, Wsley Johnson/

 

[toolazy21]

This.



And those guys are a rare breed. A lot of one and done guys go to the league and flop.

There are alot of guys who go to school and come out and flop as well, Hasheem Thabeet left after his Jr year flopped, 2010-2012 lottery picks Evan that haven't panned out Turner(Jr), Epke Udoh(Jr), Wesley Johnson(Jr) Cole Aldrich(Jr), Derrick Williams(so), Jimmer(Sr), Thomas Robinson(Jr), Harrison Barnes(so) Meyers Len (so)