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its kind of a double edge sword when dealing with taking a charge, but i agree with both sides
Taking a charge under the basket
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by gko2408,
- Start date
its kind of a double edge sword when dealing with taking a charge, but i agree with both sides
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You cant go that far, if they let offensive players just run thru defenders certain guys would be unstoppable....Wade, Lebron, Melo, Howard,Stoudemire, Bynum, Westbrook etc basically any good players with a little bit of muscle and explosiveness.The ones that didnt have muscles would add it like Kobe, Rose, Pierce etc
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You cant go that far, if they let offensive players just run thru defenders certain guys would be unstoppable....Wade, Lebron, Melo, Howard,Stoudemire, Bynum, Westbrook etc basically any good players with a little bit of muscle and explosiveness.The ones that didnt have muscles would add it like Kobe, Rose, Pierce etc
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i get what you're saying but i think it just changes the fundamentals of the game too much. charging is a good defensive strategy when done appropriately. its intention is to reward the defense when the offensive player is out of control. if you play defense well enough with your feet you can get in position to take a charge. if you're a big man playing help d it gives you another weapon, because 95% of the time if you jump and make body contact it's going to be a foul.
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i get what you're saying but i think it just changes the fundamentals of the game too much. charging is a good defensive strategy when done appropriately. its intention is to reward the defense when the offensive player is out of control. if you play defense well enough with your feet you can get in position to take a charge. if you're a big man playing help d it gives you another weapon, because 95% of the time if you jump and make body contact it's going to be a foul.
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But why can't the same player that's stepping in to take a charge instead just contest the shot? I don't buy that certain players would be totally unstoppable, it would just change the way that defenses try to stop them. If Matt Bonner has enough time to get to a spot and try to take a charge from Carmelo Anthony, surely he can put his hands up and try to block the shot right?
Did you guys see what the Turkish dude from the Bulls did today when Wade was driving? He put his arms up and jumped up and blocked his shot. Didn't take the charge, didn't flop, just manned up and played defense. That's much, much in line with the spirit of basketball to me than just standing still and falling over when the offensive player touches you.
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But why can't the same player that's stepping in to take a charge instead just contest the shot? I don't buy that certain players would be totally unstoppable, it would just change the way that defenses try to stop them. If Matt Bonner has enough time to get to a spot and try to take a charge from Carmelo Anthony, surely he can put his hands up and try to block the shot right?
Did you guys see what the Turkish dude from the Bulls did today when Wade was driving? He put his arms up and jumped up and blocked his shot. Didn't take the charge, didn't flop, just manned up and played defense. That's much, much in line with the spirit of basketball to me than just standing still and falling over when the offensive player touches you.
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It's all on the NBA refs. What Asik did to Wade is called a foul 95% of the time when Wade drives in. Refs encourage the flopping by not calling the game correctly. If you try and take a charge and don't flop or fall down like you got shot, the refs don't call it (or call you for the foul). You basically get punished for standing your ground. I'm okay with the charge just because the offensive player has so many advantages. You can't touch him on the perimeter and there's defensive 3 seconds, the least he could do is be in control enough to not run into a guy who isn't even trying to block his shot.
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It's all on the NBA refs. What Asik did to Wade is called a foul 95% of the time when Wade drives in. Refs encourage the flopping by not calling the game correctly. If you try and take a charge and don't flop or fall down like you got shot, the refs don't call it (or call you for the foul). You basically get punished for standing your ground. I'm okay with the charge just because the offensive player has so many advantages. You can't touch him on the perimeter and there's defensive 3 seconds, the least he could do is be in control enough to not run into a guy who isn't even trying to block his shot.
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I understand the offensive foul but straight flopping when you barely get touched irks me.
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I understand the offensive foul but straight flopping when you barely get touched irks me.
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If charges didn't exist and defenders were forced to try to block every shot, it would give a huge advantage to the offense. Anytime a defender leaves their feet and there is slightest amount of contact it is called a defensive foul. Even when guys don't leave their feet and have their arms straight up they are sometimes called for fouls.
charges reward good defensive positioning, it doesn't matter who is guarding the offensive player, if any stationary defender gets run over its a charge. basketball is a team game, so if one guy gets beat off the dribble, his teamate should be able to help not solely by trying to block the shot, but by having good position.
I do hate when guys slide under players to draw a charge, but that is bad officiating not a problem with the game. The player must be stationary with both feet planted to draw the charge, sometimes I think the refs look at who got the worst of the collision and make the call based on that. smaller guards always be getting the benefit of those sneaky slide into the spot charges.
charges reward good defensive positioning, it doesn't matter who is guarding the offensive player, if any stationary defender gets run over its a charge. basketball is a team game, so if one guy gets beat off the dribble, his teamate should be able to help not solely by trying to block the shot, but by having good position.
I do hate when guys slide under players to draw a charge, but that is bad officiating not a problem with the game. The player must be stationary with both feet planted to draw the charge, sometimes I think the refs look at who got the worst of the collision and make the call based on that. smaller guards always be getting the benefit of those sneaky slide into the spot charges.
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If charges didn't exist and defenders were forced to try to block every shot, it would give a huge advantage to the offense. Anytime a defender leaves their feet and there is slightest amount of contact it is called a defensive foul. Even when guys don't leave their feet and have their arms straight up they are sometimes called for fouls.
charges reward good defensive positioning, it doesn't matter who is guarding the offensive player, if any stationary defender gets run over its a charge. basketball is a team game, so if one guy gets beat off the dribble, his teamate should be able to help not solely by trying to block the shot, but by having good position.
I do hate when guys slide under players to draw a charge, but that is bad officiating not a problem with the game. The player must be stationary with both feet planted to draw the charge, sometimes I think the refs look at who got the worst of the collision and make the call based on that. smaller guards always be getting the benefit of those sneaky slide into the spot charges.
charges reward good defensive positioning, it doesn't matter who is guarding the offensive player, if any stationary defender gets run over its a charge. basketball is a team game, so if one guy gets beat off the dribble, his teamate should be able to help not solely by trying to block the shot, but by having good position.
I do hate when guys slide under players to draw a charge, but that is bad officiating not a problem with the game. The player must be stationary with both feet planted to draw the charge, sometimes I think the refs look at who got the worst of the collision and make the call based on that. smaller guards always be getting the benefit of those sneaky slide into the spot charges.
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It is just funny that people say so and so flops, but the whole idea of "taking a charge" is an act of flopping in itself.
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It is just funny that people say so and so flops, but the whole idea of "taking a charge" is an act of flopping in itself.
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I just hate the call when the player is getting in position AFTER the offensive player is going up in their shooting motion. That's not considered SET and I was seeing it a lot in the MEM/OKC series. You can't just slide under a guy when he's already in his shooting motion and still get the call.
Let that story above happen in today's NBA. Automatic 20 game suspension
Let that story above happen in today's NBA. Automatic 20 game suspension
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I just hate the call when the player is getting in position AFTER the offensive player is going up in their shooting motion. That's not considered SET and I was seeing it a lot in the MEM/OKC series. You can't just slide under a guy when he's already in his shooting motion and still get the call.
Let that story above happen in today's NBA. Automatic 20 game suspension
Let that story above happen in today's NBA. Automatic 20 game suspension
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While the primary/perimeter defender might not be playing good defense, allowing other players to take charges rewards good team defense. Since basketball is a team game, it makes sense to reward the team as a whole. I also think that drawing a charge equally punishes the offensive player for playing out of control, as it rewards the defensive effort.
If Matt Bonner has enough time to get to a spot and actually take a charge, then Carmelo should have plenty of time to realize what is happening and pull up for a jumpshot or sidestep the defender, if he is playing under control.
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While the primary/perimeter defender might not be playing good defense, allowing other players to take charges rewards good team defense. Since basketball is a team game, it makes sense to reward the team as a whole. I also think that drawing a charge equally punishes the offensive player for playing out of control, as it rewards the defensive effort.
If Matt Bonner has enough time to get to a spot and actually take a charge, then Carmelo should have plenty of time to realize what is happening and pull up for a jumpshot or sidestep the defender, if he is playing under control.
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So you want people to try and block a shot on every play. Nice.
You have a very distorted and one-sided view of what the "spirit of basketball" is. You value people contesting shots, and that's fine, that's part of the game. But playing good help defense (or man-on-man defense, for that matter), is also part of the game, and prevents offensive players from putting their head down and charging at the rim. Some players are shot blockers and they should utilize their talents fully. Others are not going to contest shots, or simply don't want/need since taking a charge is more beneficial to the team in that it results in the offensive player getting a foul. In many situations, that is more of a game changer than blocking a shot.
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So you want people to try and block a shot on every play. Nice.
You have a very distorted and one-sided view of what the "spirit of basketball" is. You value people contesting shots, and that's fine, that's part of the game. But playing good help defense (or man-on-man defense, for that matter), is also part of the game, and prevents offensive players from putting their head down and charging at the rim. Some players are shot blockers and they should utilize their talents fully. Others are not going to contest shots, or simply don't want/need since taking a charge is more beneficial to the team in that it results in the offensive player getting a foul. In many situations, that is more of a game changer than blocking a shot.
man listen
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PersiaFly.. you're making my head hurt. the defense has one job and that's to build a wall between the offense and the basket. it's not football, if I see you headed for a certain spot on the court and beat you to it, you can't just spear me. look at it as a race to the spot.. as a defender I'm at a disadvantage because I have to move backwards. if I beat you to a spot by a split second I don't have the luxury of gathering myself to leap like you do moving forwards so you can't expect me to just "contest the shot" because I barely had time to even get my feet on the ground. there would be way less skill and coordination needed if all you had to was push me off the spot with forward momentum. yes, guys would be unstoppable without charging because you wouldn't even be rewarding the defense for staying in front of guys. it creates a more level playing field. there's no way Deng could guard Lebron if Bron could just constantly body Deng out of the way even when he anticipates his move and gets position.
/rant
/rant
man listen
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PersiaFly.. you're making my head hurt. the defense has one job and that's to build a wall between the offense and the basket. it's not football, if I see you headed for a certain spot on the court and beat you to it, you can't just spear me. look at it as a race to the spot.. as a defender I'm at a disadvantage because I have to move backwards. if I beat you to a spot by a split second I don't have the luxury of gathering myself to leap like you do moving forwards so you can't expect me to just "contest the shot" because I barely had time to even get my feet on the ground. there would be way less skill and coordination needed if all you had to was push me off the spot with forward momentum. yes, guys would be unstoppable without charging because you wouldn't even be rewarding the defense for staying in front of guys. it creates a more level playing field. there's no way Deng could guard Lebron if Bron could just constantly body Deng out of the way even when he anticipates his move and gets position.
/rant
/rant
I DETEST the sprint to the spot and beg for a call charge. It's @#$%^&*(
I will use this as a perfect example.
Nash has ZERO interest in stopping this bucket. All he wants is for the ref to say "Kobe, you have to avoid the little douche bag while you go to the basket that doesn't move"
If Nash is standing in a spot minding his own business and Kobe runs thru him, that's a charge. If you run to a point in front of the player who's already running in that direction, you're a @#$% and should be ejected from the game.
Sadly, every team does this now, I hate it, it ruins the game, but since people are lucky enough to get a call here or there, they keep doing it.
Hopefully, someday the league addresses it and makes players actually attempt to do something other then wait for a ref to bail them out. If Nash knew he couldn't stop Kobe, then go up and foul him hard. Wrap arms around him, go for the block (obviously it wouldn't work, but try at least) trip him, or just stand out of the way. ANYTHING is better than run to a spot and hope a dumb @#$% ref thinks you were "in position" and calls an offensive foul when that player was already in motion to that spot before the defender was.
BTW, lookin at this gif, at first I thought Kobe should have dished off to the guy under the basket, then I noticed it was Kwame and he would have fumbled the pass out of bounds. So good play Kobe.
I will use this as a perfect example.
Nash has ZERO interest in stopping this bucket. All he wants is for the ref to say "Kobe, you have to avoid the little douche bag while you go to the basket that doesn't move"
If Nash is standing in a spot minding his own business and Kobe runs thru him, that's a charge. If you run to a point in front of the player who's already running in that direction, you're a @#$% and should be ejected from the game.
Sadly, every team does this now, I hate it, it ruins the game, but since people are lucky enough to get a call here or there, they keep doing it.
Hopefully, someday the league addresses it and makes players actually attempt to do something other then wait for a ref to bail them out. If Nash knew he couldn't stop Kobe, then go up and foul him hard. Wrap arms around him, go for the block (obviously it wouldn't work, but try at least) trip him, or just stand out of the way. ANYTHING is better than run to a spot and hope a dumb @#$% ref thinks you were "in position" and calls an offensive foul when that player was already in motion to that spot before the defender was.
BTW, lookin at this gif, at first I thought Kobe should have dished off to the guy under the basket, then I noticed it was Kwame and he would have fumbled the pass out of bounds. So good play Kobe.
I DETEST the sprint to the spot and beg for a call charge. It's @#$%^&*(
I will use this as a perfect example.
Nash has ZERO interest in stopping this bucket. All he wants is for the ref to say "Kobe, you have to avoid the little douche bag while you go to the basket that doesn't move"
If Nash is standing in a spot minding his own business and Kobe runs thru him, that's a charge. If you run to a point in front of the player who's already running in that direction, you're a @#$% and should be ejected from the game.
Sadly, every team does this now, I hate it, it ruins the game, but since people are lucky enough to get a call here or there, they keep doing it.
Hopefully, someday the league addresses it and makes players actually attempt to do something other then wait for a ref to bail them out. If Nash knew he couldn't stop Kobe, then go up and foul him hard. Wrap arms around him, go for the block (obviously it wouldn't work, but try at least) trip him, or just stand out of the way. ANYTHING is better than run to a spot and hope a dumb @#$% ref thinks you were "in position" and calls an offensive foul when that player was already in motion to that spot before the defender was.
BTW, lookin at this gif, at first I thought Kobe should have dished off to the guy under the basket, then I noticed it was Kwame and he would have fumbled the pass out of bounds. So good play Kobe.
I will use this as a perfect example.
Nash has ZERO interest in stopping this bucket. All he wants is for the ref to say "Kobe, you have to avoid the little douche bag while you go to the basket that doesn't move"
If Nash is standing in a spot minding his own business and Kobe runs thru him, that's a charge. If you run to a point in front of the player who's already running in that direction, you're a @#$% and should be ejected from the game.
Sadly, every team does this now, I hate it, it ruins the game, but since people are lucky enough to get a call here or there, they keep doing it.
Hopefully, someday the league addresses it and makes players actually attempt to do something other then wait for a ref to bail them out. If Nash knew he couldn't stop Kobe, then go up and foul him hard. Wrap arms around him, go for the block (obviously it wouldn't work, but try at least) trip him, or just stand out of the way. ANYTHING is better than run to a spot and hope a dumb @#$% ref thinks you were "in position" and calls an offensive foul when that player was already in motion to that spot before the defender was.
BTW, lookin at this gif, at first I thought Kobe should have dished off to the guy under the basket, then I noticed it was Kwame and he would have fumbled the pass out of bounds. So good play Kobe.