Taking a charge under the basket

[gko2408]

Originally Posted by koolbarbone

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly



   You cant go that far, if they let offensive players just run thru defenders certain guys would be unstoppable....Wade, Lebron, Melo, Howard,Stoudemire, Bynum, Westbrook etc basically any good players with a little bit of muscle and explosiveness.The ones that didnt have muscles would add  it like Kobe, Rose, Pierce etc

But why can't the same player that's stepping in to take a charge instead just contest the shot? I don't buy that certain players would be totally unstoppable, it would just change the way that defenses try to stop them. If Matt Bonner has enough time to get to a spot and try to take a charge from Carmelo Anthony, surely he can put his hands up and try to block the shot right? 
Did you guys see what the Turkish dude from the Bulls did today when Wade was driving? He put his arms up and jumped up and blocked his shot. Didn't take the charge, didn't flop, just manned up and played defense. That's much, much in line with the spirit of basketball to me than just standing still and falling over when the offensive player touches you. 

So you want people to try and block a shot on every play. Nice.

You have a very distorted and one-sided view of what the "spirit of basketball" is. You value people contesting shots, and that's fine, that's part of the game. But playing good help defense (or man-on-man defense, for that matter), is also part of the game, and prevents offensive players from putting their head down and charging at the rim. Some players are shot blockers and they should utilize their talents fully. Others are not going to contest shots, or simply don't want/need since taking a charge is more beneficial to the team in that it results in the offensive player getting a foul. In many situations, that is more of a game changer than blocking a shot.



 

Running to a spot and standing there, with the sole purpose being to draw an offensive foul, is NOT a basketball move. It's one thing to play against a perimeter player and, in the process of playing on the ball D, have him run you over. That would be a good defensive stop drawn from playing good basketball that resulted in a change of possession. It's another when a help defender just runs by the rim and hopes for the whistle to be in his favor. 
Omer Asik is the best example of a guy who bring good help D almost all the time. If one of his guys gets beat, he slides in and goes straight up. Contest the shot, control your vertical air space, and there won't be a call against you. 

I love Nash. He's my favorite player, but I can't stand when he plays transition D the way he does. 

 

[gko2408]

Originally Posted by koolbarbone

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Originally Posted by Mister Friendly



   You cant go that far, if they let offensive players just run thru defenders certain guys would be unstoppable....Wade, Lebron, Melo, Howard,Stoudemire, Bynum, Westbrook etc basically any good players with a little bit of muscle and explosiveness.The ones that didnt have muscles would add  it like Kobe, Rose, Pierce etc

But why can't the same player that's stepping in to take a charge instead just contest the shot? I don't buy that certain players would be totally unstoppable, it would just change the way that defenses try to stop them. If Matt Bonner has enough time to get to a spot and try to take a charge from Carmelo Anthony, surely he can put his hands up and try to block the shot right? 
Did you guys see what the Turkish dude from the Bulls did today when Wade was driving? He put his arms up and jumped up and blocked his shot. Didn't take the charge, didn't flop, just manned up and played defense. That's much, much in line with the spirit of basketball to me than just standing still and falling over when the offensive player touches you. 

So you want people to try and block a shot on every play. Nice.

You have a very distorted and one-sided view of what the "spirit of basketball" is. You value people contesting shots, and that's fine, that's part of the game. But playing good help defense (or man-on-man defense, for that matter), is also part of the game, and prevents offensive players from putting their head down and charging at the rim. Some players are shot blockers and they should utilize their talents fully. Others are not going to contest shots, or simply don't want/need since taking a charge is more beneficial to the team in that it results in the offensive player getting a foul. In many situations, that is more of a game changer than blocking a shot.



 

Running to a spot and standing there, with the sole purpose being to draw an offensive foul, is NOT a basketball move. It's one thing to play against a perimeter player and, in the process of playing on the ball D, have him run you over. That would be a good defensive stop drawn from playing good basketball that resulted in a change of possession. It's another when a help defender just runs by the rim and hopes for the whistle to be in his favor. 
Omer Asik is the best example of a guy who bring good help D almost all the time. If one of his guys gets beat, he slides in and goes straight up. Contest the shot, control your vertical air space, and there won't be a call against you. 

I love Nash. He's my favorite player, but I can't stand when he plays transition D the way he does. 

 

[theblackhole76]

Originally Posted by CP1708

I DETEST the sprint to the spot and beg for a call charge.  It's @#$%^&*(

I will use this as a perfect example. 


Nash has ZERO interest in stopping this bucket.  All he wants is for the ref to say "Kobe, you have to avoid the little douche bag while you go to the basket that doesn't move" 

If Nash is standing in a spot minding his own business and Kobe runs thru him, that's a charge.  If you run to a point in front of the player who's already running in that direction, you're a @#$% and should be ejected from the game. 

Sadly, every team does this now, I hate it, it ruins the game, but since people are lucky enough to get a call here or there, they keep doing it. 

Hopefully, someday the league addresses it and makes players actually attempt to do something other then wait for a ref to bail them out.  If Nash knew he couldn't stop Kobe, then go up and foul him hard.  Wrap arms around him, go for the block (obviously it wouldn't work, but try at least) trip him, or just stand out of the way.  ANYTHING is better than run to a spot and hope a dumb @#$% ref thinks you were "in position" and calls an offensive foul when that player was already in motion to that spot before the defender was. 


BTW, lookin at this gif, at first I thought Kobe should have dished off to the guy under the basket, then I noticed it was Kwame and he would have fumbled the pass out of bounds.  So good play Kobe. 

I think that's just a matter of referee interpretation (or incompetence, probably from your perspective). The fact that he attempted to get to the spot before Kobe isn't a bad play, IMO... It's only silly because he got there TOO LATE. That's down to referee interpretation. If I'm a referee, I'd be saying "No, you got there too late, Nash. Kobe had already made his move to dunk" (and in fact you could argue that Kobe already started jumping before Nash established position, which would mean it should be a blocking foul). If Nash got there a half second earlier and Kobe still barreled into him, that's a valid charge IMO because Nash would be attempting to block a lane and would have "established" position. The real problem is that NBA refs have no real definition of what "established" means and that leads to the charge call being ridiculously inconsistent. 
There just needs to be better interpretation and enforcement of the "getting to a spot" charge. 

 

[theblackhole76]

Originally Posted by CP1708

I DETEST the sprint to the spot and beg for a call charge.  It's @#$%^&*(

I will use this as a perfect example. 


Nash has ZERO interest in stopping this bucket.  All he wants is for the ref to say "Kobe, you have to avoid the little douche bag while you go to the basket that doesn't move" 

If Nash is standing in a spot minding his own business and Kobe runs thru him, that's a charge.  If you run to a point in front of the player who's already running in that direction, you're a @#$% and should be ejected from the game. 

Sadly, every team does this now, I hate it, it ruins the game, but since people are lucky enough to get a call here or there, they keep doing it. 

Hopefully, someday the league addresses it and makes players actually attempt to do something other then wait for a ref to bail them out.  If Nash knew he couldn't stop Kobe, then go up and foul him hard.  Wrap arms around him, go for the block (obviously it wouldn't work, but try at least) trip him, or just stand out of the way.  ANYTHING is better than run to a spot and hope a dumb @#$% ref thinks you were "in position" and calls an offensive foul when that player was already in motion to that spot before the defender was. 


BTW, lookin at this gif, at first I thought Kobe should have dished off to the guy under the basket, then I noticed it was Kwame and he would have fumbled the pass out of bounds.  So good play Kobe. 

I think that's just a matter of referee interpretation (or incompetence, probably from your perspective). The fact that he attempted to get to the spot before Kobe isn't a bad play, IMO... It's only silly because he got there TOO LATE. That's down to referee interpretation. If I'm a referee, I'd be saying "No, you got there too late, Nash. Kobe had already made his move to dunk" (and in fact you could argue that Kobe already started jumping before Nash established position, which would mean it should be a blocking foul). If Nash got there a half second earlier and Kobe still barreled into him, that's a valid charge IMO because Nash would be attempting to block a lane and would have "established" position. The real problem is that NBA refs have no real definition of what "established" means and that leads to the charge call being ridiculously inconsistent. 
There just needs to be better interpretation and enforcement of the "getting to a spot" charge. 

 

[hoosierdaddy282]

Originally Posted by bjamez20

^
it rewards the person who got to the position first. as a defender, you can't just hold your man there, so if you beat them to the spot and they run you over, you should be rewarded IMO

flopping and all that takes away from the game, but i think the way the NBA is supposed to call charges is good. it would benefit with instant replay for a season or 2 with fines for flopping.

BTW, lookin at this gif, at first I thought Kobe should have dished off to the guy under the basket, then I noticed it was Kwame and he would have fumbled the pass out of bounds.  So good play Kobe

Some one knows his !#%%

.... Kwame couldn't palm his own balls.

 

[hoosierdaddy282]

Originally Posted by bjamez20

^
it rewards the person who got to the position first. as a defender, you can't just hold your man there, so if you beat them to the spot and they run you over, you should be rewarded IMO

flopping and all that takes away from the game, but i think the way the NBA is supposed to call charges is good. it would benefit with instant replay for a season or 2 with fines for flopping.

BTW, lookin at this gif, at first I thought Kobe should have dished off to the guy under the basket, then I noticed it was Kwame and he would have fumbled the pass out of bounds.  So good play Kobe

Some one knows his !#%%

.... Kwame couldn't palm his own balls.

 

[airjordan jb23]

I always hated that this became such a consistant form of "defense" now. Just go & try & block a shot instead of stepping in at the last second throwing yourself on the ground. I understand the strategy behind it... But I don't consider it good defense when players get praised for it.

 

[airjordan jb23]

I always hated that this became such a consistant form of "defense" now. Just go & try & block a shot instead of stepping in at the last second throwing yourself on the ground. I understand the strategy behind it... But I don't consider it good defense when players get praised for it.

 

[airjordan jb23]

Plus the injury factor of being air born then someone stepping under you to get contact & fall seems like it could be an issue.

 

[airjordan jb23]

Plus the injury factor of being air born then someone stepping under you to get contact & fall seems like it could be an issue.

 

[koolbarbone]

Originally Posted by AIRJORDAN JB23

I always hated that this became such a consistant form of "defense" now. Just go & try & block a shot instead of stepping in at the last second throwing yourself on the ground. I understand the strategy behind it... But I don't consider it good defense when players get praised for it.

Plus the injuryfactor of being air born then someone stepping under you to get contact& fall seems like it could be an issue.

Totally. Two bodies colliding in the middle of the air is much safer.

 

[koolbarbone]

Originally Posted by AIRJORDAN JB23

I always hated that this became such a consistant form of "defense" now. Just go & try & block a shot instead of stepping in at the last second throwing yourself on the ground. I understand the strategy behind it... But I don't consider it good defense when players get praised for it.

Plus the injuryfactor of being air born then someone stepping under you to get contact& fall seems like it could be an issue.

Totally. Two bodies colliding in the middle of the air is much safer.

 

[airjordan jb23]

If you're making a play on the ball in mid air, I'd take that over a player jumping in mid air to the basket trying to score & someone stepping in while the other is air born. Atleast with both players in the air making a play on the ball, both guys are going straight up... When you're taking a charge like that you're stepping in under someone going full speed sometimes

Its like players stepping under a jumpshooter... Just seems like it could cause more injuries.

Atleast make a play on the ball...

 

[airjordan jb23]

If you're making a play on the ball in mid air, I'd take that over a player jumping in mid air to the basket trying to score & someone stepping in while the other is air born. Atleast with both players in the air making a play on the ball, both guys are going straight up... When you're taking a charge like that you're stepping in under someone going full speed sometimes

Its like players stepping under a jumpshooter... Just seems like it could cause more injuries.

Atleast make a play on the ball...

 

[gko2408]

Originally Posted by koolbarbone

Originally Posted by AIRJORDAN JB23

I always hated that this became such a consistant form of "defense" now. Just go & try & block a shot instead of stepping in at the last second throwing yourself on the ground. I understand the strategy behind it... But I don't consider it good defense when players get praised for it.

Plus the injuryfactor of being air born then someone stepping under you to get contact& fall seems like it could be an issue.

Totally. Two bodies colliding in the middle of the air is much safer.

It is. If one is on the ground and the other in the air, the airborne player's center of gravity is going to shift dangerously as his legs are torqued about him from the player standing beneath him. 

 

[gko2408]

Originally Posted by koolbarbone

Originally Posted by AIRJORDAN JB23

I always hated that this became such a consistant form of "defense" now. Just go & try & block a shot instead of stepping in at the last second throwing yourself on the ground. I understand the strategy behind it... But I don't consider it good defense when players get praised for it.

Plus the injuryfactor of being air born then someone stepping under you to get contact& fall seems like it could be an issue.

Totally. Two bodies colliding in the middle of the air is much safer.

It is. If one is on the ground and the other in the air, the airborne player's center of gravity is going to shift dangerously as his legs are torqued about him from the player standing beneath him. 

 

[koolbarbone]

Originally Posted by gko2408

Originally Posted by koolbarbone

Originally Posted by AIRJORDAN JB23

I always hated that this became such a consistant form of "defense" now. Just go & try & block a shot instead of stepping in at the last second throwing yourself on the ground. I understand the strategy behind it... But I don't consider it good defense when players get praised for it.

Plus the injuryfactor of being air born then someone stepping under you to get contact& fall seems like it could be an issue.

Totally. Two bodies colliding in the middle of the air is much safer.

It is. If one is on the ground and the other in the air, the airborne player's center of gravity is going to shift dangerously as his legs are torqued about him from the player standing beneath him. 


Absolutely. I've never seen a player's center of gravity shift dangerously during all those contested shots.

I'll just wait patiently for video of all those players injured during charging fouls.

 

[koolbarbone]

Originally Posted by gko2408

Originally Posted by koolbarbone

Originally Posted by AIRJORDAN JB23

I always hated that this became such a consistant form of "defense" now. Just go & try & block a shot instead of stepping in at the last second throwing yourself on the ground. I understand the strategy behind it... But I don't consider it good defense when players get praised for it.

Plus the injuryfactor of being air born then someone stepping under you to get contact& fall seems like it could be an issue.

Totally. Two bodies colliding in the middle of the air is much safer.

It is. If one is on the ground and the other in the air, the airborne player's center of gravity is going to shift dangerously as his legs are torqued about him from the player standing beneath him. 


Absolutely. I've never seen a player's center of gravity shift dangerously during all those contested shots.

I'll just wait patiently for video of all those players injured during charging fouls.

 

[rockybalboa25]

Originally Posted by AIRJORDAN JB23

If you're making a play on the ball in mid air, I'd take that over a player jumping in mid air to the basket trying to score & someone stepping in while the other is air born. Atleast with both players in the air making a play on the ball, both guys are going straight up... When you're taking a charge like that you're stepping in under someone going full speed sometimes

Its like players stepping under a jumpshooter... Just seems like it could cause more injuries.

Atleast make a play on the ball...

If two players are going completely straight up, that means the offensive player wouldn't create any contact with the defensive player? In order for there to be an offensive foul, the offensive player must create the contact with the defensive player? Needless to say, my point is that offensive players don't go straight up for every shot attempt and if offensive player literally went straight up, then there would never be a charge call anyways.

If you step under somebody, its a block so I don't follow your logic on that one either.

Originally Posted by gko2408


It is. If one is on the ground and the other in the air, the airborne player's center of gravity is going to shift dangerously as his legs are torqued about him from the player standing beneath him. 

Your description sounds more like an undercut than a charge. If the defensive player gets to the spot and gains position and the offensive player runs/jumps into him, it isn't quite as dangerous  as you are making it sound because the offensive player is usually barely airborne by the time contact is made and the contact is usually chest area to chest area.

 

[rockybalboa25]

Originally Posted by AIRJORDAN JB23

If you're making a play on the ball in mid air, I'd take that over a player jumping in mid air to the basket trying to score & someone stepping in while the other is air born. Atleast with both players in the air making a play on the ball, both guys are going straight up... When you're taking a charge like that you're stepping in under someone going full speed sometimes

Its like players stepping under a jumpshooter... Just seems like it could cause more injuries.

Atleast make a play on the ball...

If two players are going completely straight up, that means the offensive player wouldn't create any contact with the defensive player? In order for there to be an offensive foul, the offensive player must create the contact with the defensive player? Needless to say, my point is that offensive players don't go straight up for every shot attempt and if offensive player literally went straight up, then there would never be a charge call anyways.

If you step under somebody, its a block so I don't follow your logic on that one either.

Originally Posted by gko2408


It is. If one is on the ground and the other in the air, the airborne player's center of gravity is going to shift dangerously as his legs are torqued about him from the player standing beneath him. 

Your description sounds more like an undercut than a charge. If the defensive player gets to the spot and gains position and the offensive player runs/jumps into him, it isn't quite as dangerous  as you are making it sound because the offensive player is usually barely airborne by the time contact is made and the contact is usually chest area to chest area.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by TheBlackHole76

Originally Posted by CP1708

I DETEST the sprint to the spot and beg for a call charge.  It's @#$%^&*(

I will use this as a perfect example. 


Nash has ZERO interest in stopping this bucket.  All he wants is for the ref to say "Kobe, you have to avoid the little douche bag while you go to the basket that doesn't move" 

If Nash is standing in a spot minding his own business and Kobe runs thru him, that's a charge.  If you run to a point in front of the player who's already running in that direction, you're a @#$% and should be ejected from the game. 

Sadly, every team does this now, I hate it, it ruins the game, but since people are lucky enough to get a call here or there, they keep doing it. 

Hopefully, someday the league addresses it and makes players actually attempt to do something other then wait for a ref to bail them out.  If Nash knew he couldn't stop Kobe, then go up and foul him hard.  Wrap arms around him, go for the block (obviously it wouldn't work, but try at least) trip him, or just stand out of the way.  ANYTHING is better than run to a spot and hope a dumb @#$% ref thinks you were "in position" and calls an offensive foul when that player was already in motion to that spot before the defender was. 


BTW, lookin at this gif, at first I thought Kobe should have dished off to the guy under the basket, then I noticed it was Kwame and he would have fumbled the pass out of bounds.  So good play Kobe. 

I think that's just a matter of referee interpretation (or incompetence, probably from your perspective). The fact that he attempted to get to the spot before Kobe isn't a bad play, IMO... It's only silly because he got there TOO LATE. That's down to referee interpretation. If I'm a referee, I'd be saying "No, you got there too late, Nash. Kobe had already made his move to dunk" (and in fact you could argue that Kobe already started jumping before Nash established position, which would mean it should be a blocking foul). If Nash got there a half second earlier and Kobe still barreled into him, that's a valid charge IMO because Nash would be attempting to block a lane and would have "established" position. The real problem is that NBA refs have no real definition of what "established" means and that leads to the charge call being ridiculously inconsistent. 
There just needs to be better interpretation and enforcement of the "getting to a spot" charge. 

Naw man, this play was called a block on Nash.  I brought it up as an example of what the defender is trying to do there. 

The rim don't move.  It's one spot, all night long.  So where is Kobe supposed to go, dribble around the guy running to a spot? 

 

What Nash does there is not a "basketball play"  He's doing NOTHING except hoping for a 50/50 call.  Foul on him, or as he's hoping, foul on Kobe.  Either way, he wants a whistle.  And that's chicken @#$% basketball.  That's girls stuff.  Instead of Nash, the MVP of the league trying to stop an opponent from scoring, he's hoping the ref does the work for him. 

And then people blame refs for stuff. 

  Nash should be forced to make a play rather then beg for a call.  Bottom line. 

And that goes for ALL of these instances.  The defenders are doing nothing but flipping a coin on a call.  Either foul on me, or foul on him.  Either way, it's decided by a ref, and not the players.  The offensive player only has one place to go, the rim.  They have no other options.  Guy goes up for a dunk, he can't veer in mid air cuz some @#$%^& just sprinted to the spot he was jumping from.  It's a terrible play, and I hate that the NBA allows players to get away with it. 

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by TheBlackHole76

Originally Posted by CP1708

I DETEST the sprint to the spot and beg for a call charge.  It's @#$%^&*(

I will use this as a perfect example. 


Nash has ZERO interest in stopping this bucket.  All he wants is for the ref to say "Kobe, you have to avoid the little douche bag while you go to the basket that doesn't move" 

If Nash is standing in a spot minding his own business and Kobe runs thru him, that's a charge.  If you run to a point in front of the player who's already running in that direction, you're a @#$% and should be ejected from the game. 

Sadly, every team does this now, I hate it, it ruins the game, but since people are lucky enough to get a call here or there, they keep doing it. 

Hopefully, someday the league addresses it and makes players actually attempt to do something other then wait for a ref to bail them out.  If Nash knew he couldn't stop Kobe, then go up and foul him hard.  Wrap arms around him, go for the block (obviously it wouldn't work, but try at least) trip him, or just stand out of the way.  ANYTHING is better than run to a spot and hope a dumb @#$% ref thinks you were "in position" and calls an offensive foul when that player was already in motion to that spot before the defender was. 


BTW, lookin at this gif, at first I thought Kobe should have dished off to the guy under the basket, then I noticed it was Kwame and he would have fumbled the pass out of bounds.  So good play Kobe. 

I think that's just a matter of referee interpretation (or incompetence, probably from your perspective). The fact that he attempted to get to the spot before Kobe isn't a bad play, IMO... It's only silly because he got there TOO LATE. That's down to referee interpretation. If I'm a referee, I'd be saying "No, you got there too late, Nash. Kobe had already made his move to dunk" (and in fact you could argue that Kobe already started jumping before Nash established position, which would mean it should be a blocking foul). If Nash got there a half second earlier and Kobe still barreled into him, that's a valid charge IMO because Nash would be attempting to block a lane and would have "established" position. The real problem is that NBA refs have no real definition of what "established" means and that leads to the charge call being ridiculously inconsistent. 
There just needs to be better interpretation and enforcement of the "getting to a spot" charge. 

Naw man, this play was called a block on Nash.  I brought it up as an example of what the defender is trying to do there. 

The rim don't move.  It's one spot, all night long.  So where is Kobe supposed to go, dribble around the guy running to a spot? 

 

What Nash does there is not a "basketball play"  He's doing NOTHING except hoping for a 50/50 call.  Foul on him, or as he's hoping, foul on Kobe.  Either way, he wants a whistle.  And that's chicken @#$% basketball.  That's girls stuff.  Instead of Nash, the MVP of the league trying to stop an opponent from scoring, he's hoping the ref does the work for him. 

And then people blame refs for stuff. 

  Nash should be forced to make a play rather then beg for a call.  Bottom line. 

And that goes for ALL of these instances.  The defenders are doing nothing but flipping a coin on a call.  Either foul on me, or foul on him.  Either way, it's decided by a ref, and not the players.  The offensive player only has one place to go, the rim.  They have no other options.  Guy goes up for a dunk, he can't veer in mid air cuz some @#$%^& just sprinted to the spot he was jumping from.  It's a terrible play, and I hate that the NBA allows players to get away with it. 

 

[gko2408]

Originally Posted by koolbarbone

Originally Posted by gko2408

Originally Posted by koolbarbone


Totally. Two bodies colliding in the middle of the air is much safer.

It is. If one is on the ground and the other in the air, the airborne player's center of gravity is going to shift dangerously as his legs are torqued about him from the player standing beneath him.�

Absolutely. I've never seen a player's center of gravity shift dangerously during all those contested shots.

I'll just wait patiently for video of all those players injured during charging fouls.

Youtube was REALLY difficult to use, so I hope I didn't make you wait too long for a video to appear. 

Snarkiness aside, the heights of the players involved in the "run under the basket" type of charges obviously dictate how the landing will play out. Delonte West is what, 6'4? So him going up against a standing Nash is going to be more dangerous than Kobe going up against Nash.
�
But we're going off track a bit here. My point is that what a Collison or Nash does isn't done in the spirit of good basketball. These aren't defensive plays made to stop the progress of the offensive player. They're made to draw a whistle from the refs.

Simmons used a litmus test that I like:

Not to keep bringing up the pickup basketball analogy, but geez ... can you imagine if somebody pulled this crap during a game among friends? The prevailing reactions would be, "What the hell are you doing?" and "If you do that again, I'm gonna sock you."

 

[gko2408]

Originally Posted by koolbarbone

Originally Posted by gko2408

Originally Posted by koolbarbone


Totally. Two bodies colliding in the middle of the air is much safer.

It is. If one is on the ground and the other in the air, the airborne player's center of gravity is going to shift dangerously as his legs are torqued about him from the player standing beneath him.�

Absolutely. I've never seen a player's center of gravity shift dangerously during all those contested shots.

I'll just wait patiently for video of all those players injured during charging fouls.

Youtube was REALLY difficult to use, so I hope I didn't make you wait too long for a video to appear. 

Snarkiness aside, the heights of the players involved in the "run under the basket" type of charges obviously dictate how the landing will play out. Delonte West is what, 6'4? So him going up against a standing Nash is going to be more dangerous than Kobe going up against Nash.
�
But we're going off track a bit here. My point is that what a Collison or Nash does isn't done in the spirit of good basketball. These aren't defensive plays made to stop the progress of the offensive player. They're made to draw a whistle from the refs.

Simmons used a litmus test that I like:

Not to keep bringing up the pickup basketball analogy, but geez ... can you imagine if somebody pulled this crap during a game among friends? The prevailing reactions would be, "What the hell are you doing?" and "If you do that again, I'm gonna sock you."

 

[north dade represent]

Never liked the rule.

I agree there should be a charge rule, players just can't run over dudes. But the whole "Jump in front of the guy that's driving to the basket and hold position" technique, that's not defense to me.

Duke used to kill me with that crap in the 90's, but now everybody does it.

Taking charges shows me that you can't guard me and your best bet is to try to get a foul called on me.