***THE 2011 NFL QUARTERBACK THREAD*** (QBRs through week 9 pg. 16)

[kingjames23]

Originally Posted by do work son

if anyone is to blame for the colts, it's their front office. go back and look at recent draft picks and you'll see what i mean. peyton's brilliance has masked all those issues, and they were just exploited yesterday

Yep. EVERYTHING is built around Manning, even the defense.

Manning masks the lack of a running game by being able to throw a ton, without mistakes. He masks poor protection with his quick release and ability to read a defense and get out to the hot receivers.

Their defense is all fast and undersized. They excel in coverage and getting after the QB. They are built to play with the lead. They cannot handle teams lining up in 21 personnel and running it down their throat.

 

[MON5T3R]

The Colts should have learned after that Jets game when they put in Painter and he lost their undefeated season that they needed a backup qb. Collins will be sitting by week 4.

 

[dajoka004]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

Originally Posted by do work son

if anyone is to blame for the colts, it's their front office. go back and look at recent draft picks and you'll see what i mean. peyton's brilliance has masked all those issues, and they were just exploited yesterday

Anthony Gonzalez, Jerry Hughes, and Donald Brown all come to mind.

I've always thought the Colts front office has done a poor job of providing Manning help. Even though they've been a great franchise the last decade, they could have come up with more than one Super Bowl victory if the FO had done a better job.

Not getting a quality veteran backup to be behind Manning this year was a total blunder. I don't care if communication was difficult with the lockout. Kerry Collins starting week one after being with the team for two weeks is a joke. They should have prepared better.

 

[crazy dav0]

the colts are a joke ... never had a big wide receiver ... undersized defense ... after edge got hurt it was really all down hill ... that stretch play was never the same

 

[CP1708]

the league's 32 teams combined for 7,842 net passing yards -- the most in a single week in NFL history. What's more, a league-record 14 quarterbacks passed for 300-plus yards.
We may see some historic numbers this year if this keeps up.  The defenses are behind from the lockout, the rules are in favor of QB's/WR's, if the main guys stay healthy, we could see a grip of 4K guys, and maybe see someone touch 5K again. 

Donovan McNabb, not included. 

 

[IATT]

^ colts DID a good job of surrounding peyton will talent before (think drafting wayne, dallas clark and james.. harrison was the year before i believe)..


it's just been the past 3/4 years that their drafts have been horrible






and for those talking about brady being great because of the team/belichick.. what was belichik's record before/without brady? hell, what was the pats' record that very same season before brady came in?

 

[university of nike]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

and for those talking about brady being great because of the team/belichick.. what was belichik's record before/without brady? hell, what was the pats' record that very same season before brady came in?

Bill builds the offense around Tom's strengths and Tom excels because of it. He's an amazingly accurate QB, doesn't make mistakes, and shows up when it matters - things that a scheme/coach have little to do with. However, people seem to ignore just how important a good coach/scheme is to a QBs play.

A couple of examples:

Matt Cassel. Excelled when Tom went down, went to KC with a fat contract, and got to play under Charlie Weis. Played good football. Now?

evansilva Evan Silva
Matt Cassel's 3 games since it was reported that the #Chiefs were done w/ Charlie Weis: 42-87 (48.3%) for 304 yds (3.49 YPA), 1 TD, 6 INT
Michael Vick. Good QB, elusive, but didn't win because of his arm. Gets picked up by the Eagles and learns under Andy Reid - posts career bests across the board. Coincidence?

 

[BranchLifestyle]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul


[font='Times New Roman', serif]
[/font]

Why did you write an entire's summers worth of book reports??
Sheesh.

 

[university of nike]

And FYI, I'm not saying that the only reason that Tom is good is because of the system - just like I don't think Vick is only good because of Philly's system, or Peyton is only good because of Indy's system - they just play to their QBs strengths. Each of these guys is an elite QB, and would be amazing no matter where they play, but having the proper coaches and schemes make them that much better.

 

[651akathepaul]

Originally Posted by ShadyKay NT

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul


[font='Times New Roman', serif]
[/font]

Why did you write an entire's summers worth of book reports??
Sheesh.

*shrugs*It wasn't really as bad as it looks. I didn't sit down and do it all in one stretch. I did snippets at a time. I guess I should've posted in snippets too.

 

[CP1708]

^
Hell no, the way you posted it was fine.  Nice work. 

 

[651akathepaul]

Thank you, sir. Much appreciated. I look forward to going back to that at the end of the year to see how things progressed and how close I came to getting it right.

 

[mez 0ne]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

And FYI, I'm not saying that the only reason that Tom is good is because of the system - just like I don't think Vick is only good because of Philly's system, or Peyton is only good because of Indy's system - they just play to their QBs strengths. Each of these guys is an elite QB, and would be amazing no matter where they play, but having the proper coaches and schemes make them that much better.

The coaches (especially in Brady's case) just follow the QB's lead, they pretty much ARE the system.

 

[IATT]

^ i agree.. steve young's career is a prefect example


but my comment was directed at what most peyton fans say when the brady/manning debate comes..




for example i dont care how good a QB is, if his Oline can't block.. he won't be able to show his ability.. now of course a good QB can make a bad Oline look better.. but if he isn't given time to throw, he won't be able to show how good or bad he is

 

[dland24]

Week 2 Total QBR.......

[h4]2011 Total QBR Leaders[/h4][table][tr][th=""]No.[/th][th=""]Name[/th][th=""]Pass EPA[/th][th=""]Run EPA[/th][th=""]Sack EPA[/th][th=""]Pen. EPA[/th][th=""]Total EPA[/th][th=""]Action Plays[/th][th=""]Clutch Wt Avg[/th][th=""]Total QBR[/th][/tr][tr][td]1[/td][td]Tom Brady [/td][td]27.3[/td][td]-0.9[/td][td]-1.9[/td][td]-0.9[/td][td]23.6[/td][td]107[/td][td]1.0[/td][td]89.7[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Ryan Fitzpatrick [/td][td]17.1[/td][td]0.4[/td][td]-0.5[/td][td]1.8[/td][td]18.8[/td][td]89[/td][td]1.1[/td][td]84.8[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]Matt Hasselbeck [/td][td]17.7[/td][td]0.8[/td][td]-3.0[/td][td]1.0[/td][td]16.4[/td][td]86[/td][td]1.0[/td][td]83.3[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]Tony Romo [/td][td]19.3[/td][td]-0.4[/td][td]-2.5[/td][td]-1.0[/td][td]15.5[/td][td]84[/td][td]1.1[/td][td]81.6[/td][/tr][tr][td]5[/td][td]Matthew Stafford [/td][td]10.9[/td][td]0.4[/td][td]0.0[/td][td]0.7[/td][td]11.9[/td][td]84[/td][td]0.9[/td][td]79.6[/td][/tr][tr][td]6[/td][td]Aaron Rodgers [/td][td]15.0[/td][td]-1.8[/td][td]-1.8[/td][td]0.0[/td][td]11.4[/td][td]86[/td][td]0.9[/td][td]77.2[/td][/tr][tr][td]7[/td][td]Matt Schaub [/td][td]10.8[/td][td]-0.5[/td][td]-2.5[/td][td]-0.1[/td][td]7.6[/td][td]66[/td][td]0.8[/td][td]76.2[/td][/tr][tr][td]8[/td][td]Drew Brees [/td][td]12.4[/td][td]-0.2[/td][td]-2.9[/td][td]0.3[/td][td]9.6[/td][td]99[/td][td]0.7[/td][td]72.3[/td][/tr][tr][td]9[/td][td]Jason Campbell [/td][td]13.9[/td][td]1.0[/td][td]-3.3[/td][td]-0.9[/td][td]10.7[/td][td]75[/td][td]1.1[/td][td]71.3[/td][/tr][tr][td]10[/td][td]Rex Grossman [/td][td]13.3[/td][td]-0.4[/td][td]-4.3[/td][td]2.4[/td][td]11.0[/td][td]93[/td][td]1.2[/td][td]63.2[/td][/tr][tr][td]11[/td][td]Philip Rivers [/td][td]12.2[/td][td]-1.7[/td][td]-2.2[/td][td]1.9[/td][td]10.2[/td][td]110[/td][td]1.0[/td][td]60.9[/td][/tr][tr][td]12[/td][td]Josh Freeman [/td][td]9.0[/td][td]1.7[/td][td]-3.8[/td][td]0.0[/td][td]6.9[/td][td]93[/td][td]0.8[/td][td]60.0[/td][/tr][tr][td]13[/td][td]Eli Manning [/td][td]3.3[/td][td]0.4[/td][td]-0.3[/td][td]-0.9[/td][td]2.6[/td][td]39[/td][td]1.0[/td][td]53.6[/td][/tr][tr][td]14[/td][td]Chad Henne [/td][td]6.9[/td][td]2.3[/td][td]-3.5[/td][td]0.5[/td][td]6.2[/td][td]102[/td][td]0.9[/td][td]53.4[/td][/tr][tr][td]15[/td][td]Michael Vick [/td][td]10.3[/td][td]0.1[/td][td]-3.5[/td][td]-0.6[/td][td]6.3[/td][td]88[/td][td]1.1[/td][td]53.3[/td][/tr][tr][td]16[/td][td]Cam Newton [/td][td]19.9[/td][td]-3.1[/td][td]-8.1[/td][td]0.2[/td][td]8.9[/td][td]122[/td][td]1.1[/td][td]53.1[/td][/tr][tr][td]17[/td][td]Alex Smith [/td][td]8.7[/td][td]-0.9[/td][td]-5.4[/td][td]1.5[/td][td]3.9[/td][td]69[/td][td]1.0[/td][td]50.4[/td][/tr][tr][td]18[/td][td]Kevin Kolb [/td][td]15.4[/td][td]-1.6[/td][td]-7.6[/td][td]-1.3[/td][td]4.8[/td][td]73[/td][td]1.3[/td][td]48.5[/td][/tr][tr][td]19[/td][td]Matt Ryan [/td][td]9.8[/td][td]-0.5[/td][td]-5.5[/td][td]-0.3[/td][td]3.4[/td][td]97[/td][td]0.8[/td][td]45.8[/td][/tr][tr][td]20[/td][td]Joe Flacco [/td][td]3.3[/td][td]0.0[/td][td]-0.2[/td][td]-0.6[/td][td]2.5[/td][td]73[/td][td]0.8[/td][td]45.2[/td][/tr][tr][td]21[/td][td]Ben Roethlisberger [/td][td]4.5[/td][td]-0.2[/td][td]-4.1[/td][td]1.4[/td][td]1.6[/td][td]90[/td][td]0.5[/td][td]43.5[/td][/tr][tr][td]22[/td][td]Colt McCoy [/td][td]4.3[/td][td]2.9[/td][td]-4.6[/td][td]0.6[/td][td]3.2[/td][td]90[/td][td]1.3[/td][td]41.2[/td][/tr][tr][td]23[/td][td]Donovan McNabb [/td][td]-1.1[/td][td]4.1[/td][td]-2.0[/td][td]0.3[/td][td]1.3[/td][td]62[/td][td]1.0[/td][td]38.9[/td][/tr][tr][td]24[/td][td]Andy Dalton [/td][td]5.7[/td][td]-1.2[/td][td]-5.5[/td][td]2.0[/td][td]1.0[/td][td]72[/td][td]1.2[/td][td]36.3[/td][/tr][tr][td]25[/td][td]Kyle Orton [/td][td]7.4[/td][td]1.6[/td][td]-9.9[/td][td]1.7[/td][td]0.7[/td][td]95[/td][td]1.1[/td][td]35.1[/td][/tr][tr][td]26[/td][td]Jay Cutler [/td][td]5.4[/td][td]0.7[/td][td]-6.5[/td][td]0.4[/td][td]0.1[/td][td]98[/td][td]0.8[/td][td]33.3[/td][/tr][tr][td]27[/td][td]Mark Sanchez [/td][td]7.5[/td][td]-2.1[/td][td]-5.6[/td][td]-0.2[/td][td]-0.4[/td][td]83[/td][td]1.0[/td][td]31.6[/td][/tr][tr][td]28[/td][td]Sam Bradford [/td][td]2.2[/td][td]-2.3[/td][td]-2.5[/td][td]2.0[/td][td]-0.6[/td][td]40[/td][td]1.0[/td][td]28.7[/td][/tr][tr][td]29[/td][td]Tarvaris Jackson [/td][td]4.8[/td][td]0.2[/td][td]-7.0[/td][td]-0.3[/td][td]-2.3[/td][td]91[/td][td]0.7[/td][td]23.3[/td][/tr][tr][td]30[/td][td]Matt Cassel [/td][td]-0.4[/td][td]0.0[/td][td]-2.3[/td][td]-0.1[/td][td]-2.8[/td][td]64[/td][td]0.6[/td][td]16.4[/td][/tr][tr][td]31[/td][td]Kerry Collins [/td][td]-1.6[/td][td]-0.8[/td][td]-6.2[/td][td]1.2[/td][td]-7.3[/td][td]86[/td][td]0.7[/td][td]9.8[/td][/tr][tr][td]32[/td][td]Luke McCown [/td][td]-1.5[/td][td]-0.7[/td][td]-3.6[/td][td]0.3[/td][td]-5.5[/td][td]54[/td][td]0.8[/td][td]8.7[/td][/tr][/table]

 

[CP1708]

So they're doing a composite of those numbers all year, and not doing each week's leaders?  Why can't they do both?  Or do they? 

Brady so far this year.....

Cam looks damn good. 

Where the hell Ryan Fitzpatrick come from? 

Stafford. 

Rivers gets Jackson back, but Gates isn't right.  Dude can't get a break. 


Sanchez hangin out with Cassel, Tavaris, Kerry Collins and Luke McCown. 

 

[651akathepaul]

I'm very happy for Romo and his showing this last weekend. I'm rooting for the guy and I really like him and the Cowboys this year.

We all almost figured Vick would miss a game or two because of an injury, or in this case a concussion, but the biggest thing at this point is how much time missed and does it happen again.

Hasselbeck played that last game like he was in the prime of his career. Proves the value a veteran can be to a team like the Titans.

Great comeback from Freeman and the Bucs. Freeman's got something...I'm still not completely sold yet.

 

[doublejs07]

When it's all said and done where is Tom Brady's place in NFL history? Top-10 QB...Top-5 QB....where?

 

[IATT]

^ top 5 easy

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

When it's all said and done where is Tom Brady's place in NFL history? Top-10 QB...Top-5 QB....where?

top 10 is no question. i think top 5 would is fair. top 3 is definitely pushing it. but it will always come down to how people value a QB...stat kings, winning, intangibles, etc etc.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

When it's all said and done where is Tom Brady's place in NFL history? Top-10 QB...Top-5 QB....where?

I was debating making a thread about Tom being the greatest of all time over Montana, but figured i'd put it in here.
In my eyes it is now definitely debatable that Brady is the GOAT. For too long I have been hearing Brady breaking record after record. These past 2 weeks iv'e heard more storylines about what hes doing than I have ever before.  For example i just heard in the past 10 games he has thrown 29 TD's and 1 INT or something like that. But yea all these rediculous achievements by Tom just keep piling up.

I went to look and compare Montana and Bradys stats and there is no reason to believe that Brady isnt better than him. The only thing you can say is that Brady has one less superbowl. Their stats are dam near identical while Brady has played less games. The only way Brady doesnt shatter everything Montana has done statistically is if he retires or has a career ending injury this year. Then to think Montana had the best receiver of all time in his prime for most of his career. Brady gets an old Randy Moss, breaks the Touchdown record, and is on the wrong side of a miracle of having a perfect season.

I feel like alot of people are hesitant to say the GOAT  has been surpassed which is why i'm saying its debatable. I have no idea if people are gonna think if im crazy or not but IMO Bradys the greatest of all time. Like I said before it has been for too long that I hear Brady did this 

 Brady did that 

 Brady Brady Brady 

 Every single game its Brady 

And its not like he only has the stats to show for it. He's a proven winner, he's clutch, he has the 4th quarter comebacks, he has the game winning drives, he has the Pro Bowls, he has the Superbowls, he has the MVP's etc.



Brady = GOAT 

 

[supersaiyan415]

As a Niners fan, I hate calling Brady the GOAT even though I don't disagree. At least he grew up near San Francisco. 

 

[rolaholic]

Originally Posted by Jay02

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

When it's all said and done where is Tom Brady's place in NFL history? Top-10 QB...Top-5 QB....where?

I was debating making a thread about Tom being the greatest of all time over Montana, but figured i'd put it in here.
In my eyes it is now definitely debatable that Brady is the GOAT. For too long I have been hearing Brady breaking record after record. These past 2 weeks iv'e heard more storylines about what hes doing than I have ever before.  For example i just heard in the past 10 games he has thrown 29 TD's and 1 INT or something like that. But yea all these rediculous achievements by Tom just keep piling up.

I went to look and compare Montana and Bradys stats and there is no reason to believe that Brady isnt better than him. The only thing you can say is that Brady has one less superbowl. Their stats are dam near identical while Brady has played less games. The only way Brady doesnt shatter everything Montana has done statistically is if he retires or has a career ending injury this year. Then to think Montana had the best receiver of all time in his prime for most of his career. Brady gets an old Randy Moss, breaks the Touchdown record, and is on the wrong side of a miracle of having a perfect season.

I feel like alot of people are hesitant to say the GOAT  has been surpassed which is why i'm saying its debatable. I have no idea if people are gonna think if im crazy or not but IMO Bradys the greatest of all time. Like I said before it has been for too long that I hear Brady did this 

 Brady did that 

 Brady Brady Brady 

 Every single game its Brady 

And its not like he only has the stats to show for it. He's a proven winner, he's clutch, he has the 4th quarter comebacks, he has the game winning drives, he has the Pro Bowls, he has the Superbowls, he has the MVP's etc.



Brady = GOAT 

I def agree with what you're saying in regards to Montana. If Brady keeps playing the way he's been playing so far he'll definitely pass Montana's career yardage and touchdowns this season. At first people were saying that he did't have the stats but ever since '07,he's had 2 of the greatest seasons by a QB. It could be 3 by the end of this year and he's done all that even while missing an entire year. I'd wait at least 2 more seasons before calling him the GOAT but right now,he's top 4 IMO. Top 3 by seasons end.

 

[DeadsetAce]

CP had a brilliant post a while back in a brady v manning thread. i know this thread isn't about brady v manning, and i don't think CP's point was even to say one is better than the other. but he needs to dig up that post and copy it in here. it was good stuff. if i remember right, the intent of that post was more to highlight how each guy got to where they are today, and when you read it, you see just how impressive brady's rise to where he currently sits really is. CP

 

[CP1708]

You rang? 

CP1708 wrote:

---

Deuce, come on man, just stop already.  Peyton Manning was the son of a QB, went to Tennessee, played 4 years in the same system, could never win the big game (sound familiar?) then the very season he leaves for the NFL, Tennessee goes on to win the national championship. 
He joins the Colts with young Marvin Harrison already there, Marvin played pretty good his rookie year also, and had a decent college career, he was no bum off the streets. 
They add Edge James the next year giving Peyton a top tier running back for the next 7-8 years.  After that they add Reggie Wayne so that Marvin can no longer be doubled.  Add to that a WR in a TE possition in Dallas Clark.  All of this, with a solid offensive line, and the same offensive coordinator his ENTIRE career.  Alex Smith has had like 5 in 5 years has he not? 
Oh by the way, Peyton had a very solid Mike Vanderjact (best FG% while at Indy) until that dude melted down in Dallas. 

He could never win the big game, until the season in which the Colts finally had a healthy Freeny, Mathis, Bathea and Bob Sanders all at the same time.  That year?  Manning was simply "brilliant" with his 3 touchdowns and 7 interceptions in 4 games.  With QB ratings of 71.9, 39.6, 79.1, and 81.8.  Hardly GOAT status right there. 


Meanwhile, Brady is a 6th round pick, comes in mid season for an injured Drew Bledsoe (the franchise player at the time) and does so well, that when Drew is healthy, he loses his job.  Tom is the new QB for the Patriots, not for his arm, but for his brain.  He plays the way Bill wants, no mistakes, no forced passes, do what you can to move the offense.  An offense that had Troy Smith as it's best WR.  Or Givens.  Or Branch.  Bethel Johnson maybe?  Any elite Tight Ends that were better then Dallas Clark you can think of?  Me either.  How bout elite running backs to take the pressure off Tom?  Can't name one of those either?  Hmmmm.  But he did have a great Defense.  And a great coach.  And they did what they had to do to win the game.  They were not going to be the greatest show on Turf, because they did not have the personnel for that.  But 7 years later, when they had Randy Moss and Wes Welker, that offense moved along did it not?  They were simply one miracle play away from Tom throwing the winning TD pass to Moss.  Peyton's BROTHER, was the one that threw that miracle toss.  Even he has already matched his big brother in terms of Super Bowl success.  But let me back track, Brady (who, as you stated, rode the coattails of Adam Vinateri to super bowl greatness, produced games such as 86.2, 100.5, and 110.2 in 3 super bowls, all better then Mannings games in his super season.  Brady in those 3 bowls?  6 TD's, 1 INT.  As you said, he couldn't have done it without Adam. 

BTW, how did Adam do in that Super Bowl that Peyton won?  Didn't he kick 3 field goals i that game?   And Manning did what, throw one touchdown pass himself correct?  You don't find that ironic? 

So yes, both Peyton and Tom are great, but to dismiss what Tom has done to make Peyton look so superior is ridiculous and beyond lame.  Give Brady all those weapons and a full decade to play with them, and see what Tom coulda done numbers wise.  Yes, it's impressive to see Peyton call his own plays and all that, you can do that when you have the same offense for 10 years with no coaching movement or players in and out of the lineup.  That's what happens.  The bottom line is, Tom was a miracle play from having 4 rings, an undefeated season, the best winning percentage after 100 games Ever, and MVP, over 200 TD's, with fewer then 100 ints, and you're in here telling me he owes all of it to a kicker that got your boy his lone ring just the same.  Come on.