The Arizona Immigration Bill has been passed

[shaunhillftw49]

Originally Posted by Forgot About Jae

Originally Posted by elgrenas


well i was talking to my nephew who is a border patrol agent, and i asked him how he felt about what Arizona is doing. and he replied that what they are doing is what every state in the united states can do uphold the federal law. so what Arizona is doing is exactly what the federal government is doing. he told me that all these news channels that are saying its a racial thing are full of it.

He's a damn border patrol agent, what the HELL do you expect him to say

?

   Like  asking a DirecTv salesperson if DirecTV is better than Dish

 

[elgrenas]

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

you see someone suspicious in the streets stop his %#% and ask for proper i.d.

define "suspicious"
you really expect cops to NOT racially profile?

come on dirty have you ever lived in a border crossing city like calexico or san isidro. you know when people are suspicious when they are always looking out for like the police and or border agents.
well if they do racially profile oh well. im mexican if i got stopped for looking illegal i wouldnt $hit my pants and say oh you guys are racist. if everything meaning all my documentation was in order i wouldnt trip.
  

 

[elgrenas]

Originally Posted by ShaunHillFTW49

Originally Posted by Forgot About Jae

Originally Posted by elgrenas


well i was talking to my nephew who is a border patrol agent, and i asked him how he felt about what Arizona is doing. and he replied that what they are doing is what every state in the united states can do uphold the federal law. so what Arizona is doing is exactly what the federal government is doing. he told me that all these news channels that are saying its a racial thing are full of it.

He's a damn border patrol agent, what the HELL do you expect him to say

?

   Like  asking a DirecTv salesperson if DirecTV is better than Dish

ahh ok guyyyy we have comedians also

 

[dirtylicious]

^so after the 1000th time of being stopped just for looking the way you do... you'd still be ok with it?

better yet. You really want to carry around your passport all the time?
I'm a US citizen by birth... I don't carry proof that I'm a citizen with me 24/7

What about Mexicans like me?... would they be detained from what they're doing just b/c they're not carrying their passport every single time a cop profiles them?

edit. just to add to the pile.  I'm betting people will be less likely to cooperate with the police as well, since they'll be scared they will be reported/deported for being illegal.

 

[elgrenas]

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

^so after the 1000th time of being stopped just for looking the way you do... you'd still be ok with it?

better yet. You really want to carry around your passport all the time?
I'm a US citizen by birth... I don't carry proof that I'm a citizen with me 24/7

What about Mexicans like me?... would they be detained from what they're doing just b/c they're not carrying their passport every single time a cop profiles them?

edit. just to add to the pile.  I'm betting people will be less likely to cooperate with the police as well, since they'll be scared they will be reported/deported for being illegal.

me as a mexican dont have a problem carrying my passport with me. thats just my opinion. peace.
  

 

[DownByLaw]

Originally Posted by ShaunHillFTW49

Originally Posted by Forgot About Jae

Originally Posted by elgrenas


well i was talking to my nephew who is a border patrol agent, and i asked him how he felt about what Arizona is doing. and he replied that what they are doing is what every state in the united states can do uphold the federal law. so what Arizona is doing is exactly what the federal government is doing. he told me that all these news channels that are saying its a racial thing are full of it.

He's a damn border patrol agent, what the HELL do you expect him to say

?

   Like  asking a DirecTv salesperson if DirecTV is better than Dish

Seriously!

  

 

[josebronx]

Originally Posted by elgrenas

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

^so after the 1000th time of being stopped just for looking the way you do... you'd still be ok with it?

better yet. You really want to carry around your passport all the time?
I'm a US citizen by birth... I don't carry proof that I'm a citizen with me 24/7

What about Mexicans like me?... would they be detained from what they're doing just b/c they're not carrying their passport every single time a cop profiles them?

edit. just to add to the pile.  I'm betting people will be less likely to cooperate with the police as well, since they'll be scared they will be reported/deported for being illegal.

me as a mexican dont have a problem carrying my passport with me. thats just my opinion. peace.
  

how is that going to fit in your pocket?

lulz

 

[livewyre]

Originally Posted by elgrenas

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

^so after the 1000th time of being stopped just for looking the way you do... you'd still be ok with it?

better yet. You really want to carry around your passport all the time?
I'm a US citizen by birth... I don't carry proof that I'm a citizen with me 24/7

What about Mexicans like me?... would they be detained from what they're doing just b/c they're not carrying their passport every single time a cop profiles them?

edit. just to add to the pile.  I'm betting people will be less likely to cooperate with the police as well, since they'll be scared they will be reported/deported for being illegal.

me as a mexican dont have a problem carrying my passport with me. thats just my opinion. peace.
  

Just because you are ok with having your rights violated, doesn't mean I should be ok with it.

 

[ezln1]

I'm too lazy to go through the last 20 pages, so I apologize if these comments have already been passed

1. the left and or democrats concede so much ground in this discussion about immigration reform. In their outrage about racial profiling, and discussion about open borders, their is minimal talk about the historical push/pull factors that have lead to increased immigration since the late 1970s, of which the US has played a major role in the subsequent waves of migration from central and south america. No where do you see discussion about the US funded wars in countries like El Salvador, regions that had rather minimal presence in the US prior to the wars that ravaged central america. There also seems to be no discussion about the economical presence in parts of the third world, and the policies, for example, like NAFTA, that have opened many maquiladora factories in border towns like Ciudad Juarez. Some may say "oh, but at least they have jobs", of which anyone could concede, but when you are getting paid sub standard wages, face constant harassment, and face long brutal hours, it is hard not to simply cross the border, and work in the same type of factories under better conditions and pay in the US. It is also important to note that many companies have packed their bags and headed to regions of Asia to make even more profits by paying their workers even less than they previously were in Mexico

2. In the quest to become "american", which really is a thinly disguised veil to become "anglocized" (just ask rexanglorum about that), SOME of the latino population tries to distance themselves from their communities. This is what you see when the republican party props latinos to the forefront of this discussion, as if their participation validates their xenophobic, and sometimes racist attitude. The self-hatred runs strong in these folk, because it takes a lot of strong will to see your people coming into the country, risking their lives for the opportunity to better themselves, and not have their backs. News flash, folks....you might have "made" it, but when the majority of your population is struggling to make ends meet, lives in poverty, and faces some of the same ceilings we have always faced in this nation (sub standard schools, inability to climb the socioeconomical ladder, racism), your success does nothing to change the stats. And believe this....if this country had the option, your indigenous, dark brown skin, aztec facial features sorry #$! would be on the other side of the border plotting on how to get to the US. Word to Operation %#*%%%@

3. If anyone has ever been to any 3rd world country, you would understand the desperation people have to come to a country like the US. If you think the unemployment rate is bad in the US, it aint nothing compared to many latin american countries where there is simply insufficient jobs to go around. People struggle day to day for an existence, and often have to resort to the streets (selling food, or whatever little trinkets they can make) to get food on the table. This is not a living ANY one would care to have. I have talked to many youth who have the means to pursue an education in the university level, and all of them would gladly come to the US if given the chance. Their simply is no future (at least anytime soon) in some of latin america. And one more thing.....the people who are waiting on their visas are privileged. Not everyone can wait the 6 plus years to wait, and others dont have anyone to even sponsor them so that is not even an option.

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by EZLN1

I'm too lazy to go through the last 20 pages, so I apologize if these comments have already been passed

1. the left and or democrats concede so much ground in this discussion about immigration reform. In their outrage about racial profiling, and discussion about open borders, their is minimal talk about the historical push/pull factors that have lead to increased immigration since the late 1970s, of which the US has played a major role in the subsequent waves of migration from central and south america. No where do you see discussion about the US funded wars in countries like El Salvador, regions that had rather minimal presence in the US prior to the wars that ravaged central america. There also seems to be no discussion about the economical presence in parts of the third world, and the policies, for example, like NAFTA, that have opened many maquiladora factories in border towns like Ciudad Juarez. Some may say "oh, but at least they have jobs", of which anyone could concede, but when you are getting paid sub standard wages, face constant harassment, and face long brutal hours, it is hard not to simply cross the border, and work in the same type of factories under better conditions and pay in the US. It is also important to note that many companies have packed their bags and headed to regions of Asia to make even more profits by paying their workers even less than they previously were in Mexico

2. In the quest to become "american", which really is a thinly disguised veil to become "anglocized" (just ask rexanglorum about that), SOME of the latino population tries to distance themselves from their communities. This is what you see when the republican party props latinos to the forefront of this discussion, as if their participation validates their xenophobic, and sometimes racist attitude. The self-hatred runs strong in these folk, because it takes a lot of strong will to see your people coming into the country, risking their lives for the opportunity to better themselves, and not have their backs. News flash, folks....you might have "made" it, but when the majority of your population is struggling to make ends meet, lives in poverty, and faces some of the same ceilings we have always faced in this nation (sub standard schools, inability to climb the socioeconomical ladder, racism), your success does nothing to change the stats. And believe this....if this country had the option, your indigenous, dark brown skin, aztec facial features sorry #$! would be on the other side of the border plotting on how to get to the US. Word to Operation %#*%%%@

3. If anyone has ever been to any 3rd world country, you would understand the desperation people have to come to a country like the US. If you think the unemployment rate is bad in the US, it aint nothing compared to many latin american countries where there is simply insufficient jobs to go around. People struggle day to day for an existence, and often have to resort to the streets (selling food, or whatever little trinkets they can make) to get food on the table. This is not a living ANY one would care to have. I have talked to many youth who have the means to pursue an education in the university level, and all of them would gladly come to the US if given the chance. Their simply is no future (at least anytime soon) in some of latin america. And one more thing.....the people who are waiting on their visas are privileged. Not everyone can wait the 6 plus years to wait, and others dont have anyone to even sponsor them so that is not even an option.

I was too lazy to type all of that but I feel very strongly about everything you just stated, especially your first point.  People in the U.S. aren't even educated about history and how U.S. foreign and economic policies have negatively impacted the masses in other countries for the sake of "free trade" and "free market capitalism" (i.e., greed and exploitation) and are then hostile to some of those people seeking work in the U.S.  People's perspectives are so small and I don't think they even realize it...

As for your second point, take notes elgrenas

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by EZLN1

I'm too lazy to go through the last 20 pages, so I apologize if these comments have already been passed

1. the left and or democrats concede so much ground in this discussion about immigration reform. In their outrage about racial profiling, and discussion about open borders, their is minimal talk about the historical push/pull factors that have lead to increased immigration since the late 1970s, of which the US has played a major role in the subsequent waves of migration from central and south america. No where do you see discussion about the US funded wars in countries like El Salvador, regions that had rather minimal presence in the US prior to the wars that ravaged central america. There also seems to be no discussion about the economical presence in parts of the third world, and the policies, for example, like NAFTA, that have opened many maquiladora factories in border towns like Ciudad Juarez. Some may say "oh, but at least they have jobs", of which anyone could concede, but when you are getting paid sub standard wages, face constant harassment, and face long brutal hours, it is hard not to simply cross the border, and work in the same type of factories under better conditions and pay in the US. It is also important to note that many companies have packed their bags and headed to regions of Asia to make even more profits by paying their workers even less than they previously were in Mexico

2. In the quest to become "american", which really is a thinly disguised veil to become "anglocized" (just ask rexanglorum about that), SOME of the latino population tries to distance themselves from their communities. This is what you see when the republican party props latinos to the forefront of this discussion, as if their participation validates their xenophobic, and sometimes racist attitude. The self-hatred runs strong in these folk, because it takes a lot of strong will to see your people coming into the country, risking their lives for the opportunity to better themselves, and not have their backs. News flash, folks....you might have "made" it, but when the majority of your population is struggling to make ends meet, lives in poverty, and faces some of the same ceilings we have always faced in this nation (sub standard schools, inability to climb the socioeconomical ladder, racism), your success does nothing to change the stats. And believe this....if this country had the option, your indigenous, dark brown skin, aztec facial features sorry #$! would be on the other side of the border plotting on how to get to the US. Word to Operation %#*%%%@

3. If anyone has ever been to any 3rd world country, you would understand the desperation people have to come to a country like the US. If you think the unemployment rate is bad in the US, it aint nothing compared to many latin american countries where there is simply insufficient jobs to go around. People struggle day to day for an existence, and often have to resort to the streets (selling food, or whatever little trinkets they can make) to get food on the table. This is not a living ANY one would care to have. I have talked to many youth who have the means to pursue an education in the university level, and all of them would gladly come to the US if given the chance. Their simply is no future (at least anytime soon) in some of latin america. And one more thing.....the people who are waiting on their visas are privileged. Not everyone can wait the 6 plus years to wait, and others dont have anyone to even sponsor them so that is not even an option.

I was too lazy to type all of that but I feel very strongly about everything you just stated, especially your first point.  People in the U.S. aren't even educated about history and how U.S. foreign and economic policies have negatively impacted the masses in other countries for the sake of "free trade" and "free market capitalism" (i.e., greed and exploitation) and are then hostile to some of those people seeking work in the U.S.  People's perspectives are so small and I don't think they even realize it...

As for your second point, take notes elgrenas

Do you think that these same policies haven't negatively effectedthe US middle class since the late 1970's? Perspectives are indeedlimited. The irony, right?

The problem is that arguments stem from different perspectives.

From a strictly emotional perspective there is no reason to be in favorof Arizona law. The majority of illegal aliens are not criminals andare hardworking.
From an economic perspective it really depends whether you benefit fromcheap illegal alien labor and the downward push on wages that itsustains or whether you're of the class that is hurt by it.
From a perspective dealing with the law is not outrageous orunconstitutional (depending on the "legalese" with which you argue forit). Profiling is an inherent human trait ( not always based on race;intelligence, social class, manner of dress, speech, etc.) Profiling isnot inherently bad. It can be used for nefarious reasons. It can also be used in an intelligent way.

When the FBI deals with militias, do they go looking in Black or Latino urban neighborhoods?

The problem is that the federal government has abdicated its responsibility in terms of immigration enforcement and extreme reactions like this are "normal" relative to the circumstances.

 

[isitsafe]

I bet the DESERT SKY Mall will be closing down shortly.....

You can bet your life that you'll run into a stroller at the Desert Sky mall

 

[backpacker23]

Originally Posted by EZLN1

I'm too lazy to go through the last 20 pages, so I apologize if these comments have already been passed

1. the left and or democrats concede so much ground in this discussion about immigration reform. In their outrage about racial profiling, and discussion about open borders, their is minimal talk about the historical push/pull factors that have lead to increased immigration since the late 1970s, of which the US has played a major role in the subsequent waves of migration from central and south america. No where do you see discussion about the US funded wars in countries like El Salvador, regions that had rather minimal presence in the US prior to the wars that ravaged central america. There also seems to be no discussion about the economical presence in parts of the third world, and the policies, for example, like NAFTA, that have opened many maquiladora factories in border towns like Ciudad Juarez. Some may say "oh, but at least they have jobs", of which anyone could concede, but when you are getting paid sub standard wages, face constant harassment, and face long brutal hours, it is hard not to simply cross the border, and work in the same type of factories under better conditions and pay in the US. It is also important to note that many companies have packed their bags and headed to regions of Asia to make even more profits by paying their workers even less than they previously were in Mexico

2. In the quest to become "american", which really is a thinly disguised veil to become "anglocized" (just ask rexanglorum about that), SOME of the latino population tries to distance themselves from their communities. This is what you see when the republican party props latinos to the forefront of this discussion, as if their participation validates their xenophobic, and sometimes racist attitude. The self-hatred runs strong in these folk, because it takes a lot of strong will to see your people coming into the country, risking their lives for the opportunity to better themselves, and not have their backs. News flash, folks....you might have "made" it, but when the majority of your population is struggling to make ends meet, lives in poverty, and faces some of the same ceilings we have always faced in this nation (sub standard schools, inability to climb the socioeconomical ladder, racism), your success does nothing to change the stats. And believe this....if this country had the option, your indigenous, dark brown skin, aztec facial features sorry #$! would be on the other side of the border plotting on how to get to the US. Word to Operation %#*%%%@

3. If anyone has ever been to any 3rd world country, you would understand the desperation people have to come to a country like the US. If you think the unemployment rate is bad in the US, it aint nothing compared to many latin american countries where there is simply insufficient jobs to go around. People struggle day to day for an existence, and often have to resort to the streets (selling food, or whatever little trinkets they can make) to get food on the table. This is not a living ANY one would care to have. I have talked to many youth who have the means to pursue an education in the university level, and all of them would gladly come to the US if given the chance. Their simply is no future (at least anytime soon) in some of latin america. And one more thing.....the people who are waiting on their visas are privileged. Not everyone can wait the 6 plus years to wait, and others dont have anyone to even sponsor them so that is not even an option.

This guy knows what he's talking about. People think it's rough out here. Take a trip to any third would country and see the conditions our people live in, it's harrowing how people try to make ends meet. Now they're not only talking about deporting the parents who are here illegal, but they're also trying to deport their kids who were born here and are U.S. citizen, they keep violating our rights and the constitution

 

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by EZLN1

I'm too lazy to go through the last 20 pages, so I apologize if these comments have already been passed

1. the left and or democrats concede so much ground in this discussion about immigration reform. In their outrage about racial profiling, and discussion about open borders, their is minimal talk about the historical push/pull factors that have lead to increased immigration since the late 1970s, of which the US has played a major role in the subsequent waves of migration from central and south america. No where do you see discussion about the US funded wars in countries like El Salvador, regions that had rather minimal presence in the US prior to the wars that ravaged central america. There also seems to be no discussion about the economical presence in parts of the third world, and the policies, for example, like NAFTA, that have opened many maquiladora factories in border towns like Ciudad Juarez. Some may say "oh, but at least they have jobs", of which anyone could concede, but when you are getting paid sub standard wages, face constant harassment, and face long brutal hours, it is hard not to simply cross the border, and work in the same type of factories under better conditions and pay in the US. It is also important to note that many companies have packed their bags and headed to regions of Asia to make even more profits by paying their workers even less than they previously were in Mexico

2. In the quest to become "american", which really is a thinly disguised veil to become "anglocized" (just ask rexanglorum about that), SOME of the latino population tries to distance themselves from their communities. This is what you see when the republican party props latinos to the forefront of this discussion, as if their participation validates their xenophobic, and sometimes racist attitude. The self-hatred runs strong in these folk, because it takes a lot of strong will to see your people coming into the country, risking their lives for the opportunity to better themselves, and not have their backs. News flash, folks....you might have "made" it, but when the majority of your population is struggling to make ends meet, lives in poverty, and faces some of the same ceilings we have always faced in this nation (sub standard schools, inability to climb the socioeconomical ladder, racism), your success does nothing to change the stats. And believe this....if this country had the option, your indigenous, dark brown skin, aztec facial features sorry #$! would be on the other side of the border plotting on how to get to the US. Word to Operation %#*%%%@

3. If anyone has ever been to any 3rd world country, you would understand the desperation people have to come to a country like the US. If you think the unemployment rate is bad in the US, it aint nothing compared to many latin american countries where there is simply insufficient jobs to go around. People struggle day to day for an existence, and often have to resort to the streets (selling food, or whatever little trinkets they can make) to get food on the table. This is not a living ANY one would care to have. I have talked to many youth who have the means to pursue an education in the university level, and all of them would gladly come to the US if given the chance. Their simply is no future (at least anytime soon) in some of latin america. And one more thing.....the people who are waiting on their visas are privileged. Not everyone can wait the 6 plus years to wait, and others dont have anyone to even sponsor them so that is not even an option.

I was too lazy to type all of that but I feel very strongly about everything you just stated, especially your first point.  People in the U.S. aren't even educated about history and how U.S. foreign and economic policies have negatively impacted the masses in other countries for the sake of "free trade" and "free market capitalism" (i.e., greed and exploitation) and are then hostile to some of those people seeking work in the U.S.  People's perspectives are so small and I don't think they even realize it...

As for your second point, take notes elgrenas

Do you think that these same policies haven't negatively effectedthe US middle class since the late 1970's? Perspectives are indeedlimited. The irony, right?

The problem is that arguments stem from different perspectives.

From a strictly emotional perspective there is no reason to be in favorof Arizona law. The majority of illegal aliens are not criminals andare hardworking.
From an economic perspective it really depends whether you benefit fromcheap illegal alien labor and the downward push on wages that itsustains or whether you're of the class that is hurt by it.
From a perspective dealing with the law is not outrageous orunconstitutional (depending on the "legalese" with which you argue forit). Profiling is an inherent human trait ( not always based on race;intelligence, social class, manner of dress, speech, etc.) Profiling isnot inherently bad. It can be used for nefarious reasons. It can also be used in an intelligent way.

When the FBI deals with militias, do they go looking in Black or Latino urban neighborhoods?

The problem is that the federal government has abdicated its responsibility in terms of immigration enforcement and extreme reactions like this are "normal" relative to the circumstances.

In regards to militias do they look at every white person in the country because militias are probably 95+% white. The answer is no.. Or do they stop a white person who they think is in a militia. They do the opposite they find the militias then watch them. These two don't equate.

Let's say they find a guy who they think is an illegal immigrant asks where are his papers. He doesn't have any on him because he is an American citizen and thinks why would I need him, so they detain him. Turns out the man is a Veteran of the Iraq war.. Kind of offensive isn't it...

Arizona Congressmen said they will identify them by their shoes

.. At least say it is race based. Don't insult people's intelligence.

This will do 100000x more harm than good.

I also enjoy in terms of the news stories I've seen from all sources the one's all for this are the same people who believe Barack Obama hates America and dislikes the constitution and what America stands for

America is a funny place.

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by livewyre

Originally Posted by elgrenas

Dirtylicious wrote:

---

^so after the 1000th time of being stopped just for looking the way you do... you'd still be ok with it?

better yet. You really want to carry around your passport all the time?
I'm a US citizen by birth... I don't carry proof that I'm a citizen with me 24/7

What about Mexicans like me?... would they be detained from what they're doing just b/c they're not carrying their passport every single time a cop profiles them?

edit. just to add to the pile.  I'm betting people will be less likely to cooperate with the police as well, since they'll be scared they will be reported/deported for being illegal.

me as a mexican dont have a problem carrying my passport with me. thats just my opinion. peace.
  

Just because you are ok with having your rights violated, doesn't mean I should be ok with it.



they got words for dudes like that.... u know...da ones that "they let in da house" and they feel like he don't gotta represent for his brothas or sisters...

 

[green rhino123]

what about this scenario:
if i get pulled over, the cop asks me for license and registration
if i can not produce and/or the cop can not identify me otherwise,
i might get detained - and i am a citizen

an illegal shoulnt get preferencial treatment in this case
and if it turns out you get detained and you are an illegal immigrant,
face the consequences of the law that you know exists
take responsibility

 

[brandon3000]

I just saw that an Arizona deputy was shot by a mysterious Mexican wielding an AK-47....

I hate how the media wants us in fear ALL THE TIME

 

[coolnificent]

Did anyone bring up being black & racial profiled on the daily yet?

 

[manglor]

The WBC(legit boxing championship belt)has decided none of their fighters are allowed to fight AT ALL in arizona anymore which will hurt the economy slightly and KILL the boxing scene in a boxing heavy state.

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by Brandon3000

I just saw that an Arizona deputy was shot by a mysterious Mexican wielding an AK-47....

I hate how the media wants us in fear ALL THE TIME

[h1]Arizona Deputy Shot in Border Confrontation[/h1]
PHOENIX– Five Hispanic men authorities described as drug smugglers shot aPinal County sheriff’s deputy Friday afternoon when the officer cameupon them and a large amount of marijuana in a remote part ofsouth-central Arizona.

The area where the shooting took place is considered a high-traffic drug- and human-smuggling corridor.

A massive hunt that included helicopters with night vision and morethan 100 officers, including SWAT teams, and search dogs, was pursuingthe shooters Friday evening. More than one helicopter came under fireas officers rescued Deputy Louie Puroll, who was shot with anAK-47-type weapon around 4 p.m. MST, according to the sheriff’s office.

Puroll sustained a flesh wound above his kidney, but he was in goodcondition late Friday at Casa Grande Regional Medical Center.

“Our thoughts&prayers go out to the Pinal County Deputy shotduring a stop,

 

[essential1]

no one is arguing that it is too strict for illegal immigrants.

what we are arguing is the negative circumstances it will bring upon people who are American citizens. Maybe because I'm white I guess I haven't experienced it. But racial profiling is more than just getting stopped for 30 minutes once. It is constant degradation and false conviction of people based on skin color. They will presume every person who "looks illegal" is illegal so they will question them, hassle them because they can, and will do whatever they want because they can. The term DWB comes to mind. Now we have DWH (Driving While Hispanic). Hispanics will get pulled over in massive amounts in Arizona because they fit the description of an illegal because of their ethnicity. Stopping people for walking down the street because they look illegal. People with an axe to grind calling cops and claiming someone is an illegal. This is not right, not moral, not just and follows no rule of law, not because of what it does to illegal immigrants but what it does to people who are here legally. And you guys claim you like the "legal immigrants".

Maybe if we started to profile all Irish Americans (which I am one), Polish Americans, Russian Americans, Italian Americans Greek Americans we would have trouble now wouldn't we.

But I guess it's hard to see when the American Citizens are hispanic.

Like said before FAKE PATRIOTS people who care about the constitution when they disagree with something but completely disregard it when they feel they should.

 

[rsdplaya]

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

you see someone suspicious in the streets stop his %#% and ask for proper i.d.

define "suspicious"
you really expect cops to NOT racially profile?

exactly...you know dang well that this might start out as minor profiling but will continue to escalate and become really bad.

 

[rexanglorum]

EZLN1 wrote:

---

2. In the quest to become "american", which really is a thinly disguised veil to become "anglocized" (just ask rexanglorum about that), SOME of the latino population tries to distance themselves from their communities. This is what you see when the republican party props latinos to the forefront of this discussion, as if their participation validates their xenophobic, and sometimes racist attitude. The self-hatred runs strong in these folk, because it takes a lot of strong will to see your people coming into the country, risking their lives for the opportunity to better themselves, and not have their backs. News flash, folks....you might have "made" it, but when the majority of your population is struggling to make ends meet, lives in poverty, and faces some of the same ceilings we have always faced in this nation (sub standard schools, inability to climb the socioeconomical ladder, racism), your success does nothing to change the stats. And believe this....if this country had the option, your indigenous, dark brown skin, aztec facial features sorry #$! would be on the other side of the border plotting on how to get to the US. Word to Operation %#*%%%@



Wow, you cannot get me out of your mind I suppose.

I have never "distanced" myself from America's latino community. My primary language is English because my mother is American and that side of the family is Anglo-Saxon and German. Despite what you may think, there is no "one drop rule" with Latinos, I am from two different cultures and not onl yam I not ashmed of either of them I embrace both of them. I am happy being where I am and havin gconnections and family from Boston to Connecticut and New York, in the Bay Area, in SoCal and in the DF and in Puebla. I will say this, I do wish that I had spent more time as a child, with my family in Mexico. I wish that I spoke Spanish fluently and I would have been bale to if my family sent me to summer in in the DF. As it was, I summerd in New Port Beach and SLO County as a kid and only took relatively short trips to stay with my family in Mexico and learned some Spanish. Hopefully my boss/Cousin will let me work remotely from DF and/or Puebla and I can spent a month or more there.

Furthermore, as someone whose Latino father is a crillo (for those who do not know, they were the people who came to Latin America from Spain and have no Indian or African blood in them) so even when I am tanned, I look Mediterranean (more people have come up to me speaking Farsi then have approached me and started speaking in Spanish, when I am in the United States) and could, if I choose to, simply "pass" as white. Instead I tell people that I am Nicarguan and Mexican and on my dad's side and have had to endure countless remarks by Americans who think that Latino only means "brown" and I have used it as an opportunity to educate them. Also as someone who looks the same as someone who is entirely of European ancestory, I have overheard some racist remarks against Latinos and I confront them and if they are recetive, educate them about the struggles faced by Latinos here and in Latin America.

Unfortunately, some Latinos think that to be Latino one must support radical left wing policies or else that someone is a race traitor. It would be unwise for Latinos to support any political party unconditionally. Look at American blacks and see how well they have improved their lot in life during these last 40 years of voting for Democrats every single election. Look how much help they actually have recieved from the Federal Government. Look how corrupt big city Mayors are and how bad the schools are. The states and demographics that regularly change party allegiance are the ones who get the most and competition in politics, as in economics, is good for the masses.

Also, leftwing policies harm Latinos. Many Latinos rise out of poverty through entrepenuership and taxatio nand regulation crush those small businesses. Big business will do fine because they have lobbyists so they have enough subsidies and government enforced barriers to entry to off set most taxes and regulations but small business owners typically do not have that. Latinos also have strong family structure yet their taxes go to pay for people (black and white people to be frank) who do not rely on family for financial help. The main beneficiaries of the Obama Stimulus package were black and white people. School teachers, government office workers, city employees and other college educated, english speaking, public employee members, in other words, black and white women owned the stimulus package. Obama does not care about brown people you might say.

There are some who think that to even understanding (not agreeing with just being aware of them and not summarily dismissing all of them as racist) the complaints and frustrations of American citizens is an ethnic betrayal. Just like poor people in Mexico will do whatever it takes to come to the US and get a 500% raise overnight, people who live near the border, especially in Arizona will do whatever it takes to defend their families and their property. People want to protect their families, improve their lot in life and they will do it no matter what someone in distant Capital City says and that is true no matter you skin color or your nationality. I defend people illegal immigrants and explain why they do what they do.

Also, on the whole they do benefit the economy through their har dwork, thrift and the demographic reality that a disproportionate number of Mexican migrants are able bodied males between the ages of 18 and 60, in other words, non works do not come in very large numbers. There are two economic arguments against illegal aliens that are also true however. Unlike America before 1920, which had a much higher ratio of new immigrants to established citizens, Latinos can often times be net tax recipiets because they make so little money and consume public services by driving on the roads, going to the emergency room, sending their children to school and recieving food stamps. There are merits in State provided welfare and some severe inefficiencies (especially in the public schools, LAUSD in particular) and since the migrant communities did not make the rules they are simply takin gwhat is being offered I blame policy makers for the problems associated with government services but the fact still remains that some Latinos make very little money and a few trips to the ER and just two or more kids in public school guarantees that they will be taking out more then they put into the treasury.

There is also the issue of depressing wages. While most Americans benefit from abundant labor those American citizens who have the same comparative advantages as migrants, are net losers in an open borders situation. No one is entitled to never have to change jobs or careers paths and it is a mark against the American educational system that despite spending a multiple of what is spent in other countries, per pupil, on public education, we produce people with a similar skill set as someone who comes from Latin America and had less money spent on his education, in his entire life, as is spent on an America kid every single year that he is in k-12. Nonetheless, the public schools turn out people who do the same types of jobs as illegal immigrants and those people's concerns should not be simply dismissed as simply being racism in disguise. Many racists will use the tax burden and wage argument against Mexican immigrants because they dislike non white or non Americans or non English speakers but simply incorrect to deny that there ar esome costs to the entire societ yand some costs that fall on certain segments of the population, despite the fact that the type of migration comin gfrom Mexico is a net economic benefit to Americans citizens as a group. 

There ar ealso some concerns on the cultural, social and political fronts. Most of the coplaints about culture are just racism and xenophobia and some are complaints about Latino immigrants destroying our society or most outrageously of all the claim that the most observant group of Roman Catholics in the US and the people with lower rates of divorce then white and blacks and the people who tend to see their extended on a regular basis are undermining "family values." What is an at least somewhat valid conern in the claim that because many of today's intelligentsia say that all cultures are equality good in every single way combinded with people who come from very corrupt countries, will result result in :atin American levels of corruption, I doubt that will be the case but it is true that never as has an immigrant group been as unwilling to even stop and think about why their motherlands are so impoverished and will bring the sdame practices that created the poverty that compelled them to leave their family and their home. As is the case with food stamps and public schools turning Latino immigrants in net tax recipients, I do not blame the immigrant themselve but rather people in trhe US. In this case I blame those who say that economic outcomes are completel yand entriely based on whose ancestors where the most powerful in past centuries and who go on to say that attitudes, habits and anything else endogenoues to a society affects its long run economic success or failure.

Finally, Some believe that you are evil for understanding the reality that English is the de facto language of the US. Some people who want to be seen as clever point out that the Constitution does not state that English is the "official" language of the US nor does any Federal statute. The reality, however, is somewhat different. If you limit your view of the world to California or Texas it might seem like the pinches will all be gone in a generation but in New York, Washington, Chicago and in most of the Country, English is either the dominant language and and in many cases the only langauge spoken in a community. Even here in California, the universities teach in English, the AP classes are in English, the courts and the legislature and the city government meeting and the board rooms of big business here all almost universally conducted in English.

Some have twisted my words and have claimed that I advocate for Anglo or White cultural domination over people of color. I do not want anyone to dominate anyone else, I have simply pointed out that English is useful to learn and that in a very diverse country it is useful for there to be one agreed upon langauge for universal communication among everyone in this country and since most people in US still speak English as their first language and because people around the world tend to agree that Eglish is the linga franca of the World I think that speaking English is not acting white or denying your heritage, it is acting simply doin gwhat is beneficial to yourself as an inividual and in the process strengthing our national cohesion by allowing people who might speak a language other than English at home (say Spanish or Ethiopian or Thai) to be able to speak to people whose own household speaks Korean or Mandarin or Tagalog or Russian.


It is unfortunate that you did not think things through when you decided to talk about me and speak from a position of ignorance or dishonesty or both. I understand your passion and probably agree with you stance on how this country should treat illegal aliens especially with regard to amnesty (I might even be more liberal about that, I am for a complete and unconditional amnesty for all but those who are known to have committed violent crimes. I would not require any fees, fines or back taxes be paid, no trips back to your home country and no promises to learn English). As long as the voices of left wing academics and politicians, who tell Mexicans to kill all white people, willfully resist learning English and "take back" America are keep down (and they tend to be because most latinos either want to become citizens or they want to save their money and help their grandmother back home and eventually return to Mexico and build a ranch. Most people who dream of Atzlan are college educated Mexican Americans and a minority of that demographic group at that), immigration from Latin America and elsewhere can greatly improve the lives of immigrants and native born citizens alike.

If improving one's life and putting the well being of your family above the revolutionary dreams of a handful of university students and race hustlers is being "anglocized," I think that most people in the US and Mexico are indeed "anglocized."


BTW, by screen name is refrence to an English King who lead his armies into battle and defended his people from murderous, raping and pillaging group of Viking slavers and invaders. Bravery in the defense of one's own life, liberty and porperty are universal themes and while my screen name is based on person from Northern Europe, King Alfred the Great, my SCreen name is his Latin title. I picked the name because of my anglo-Latino heritage and because Alfred the Great is one of those rare figures from history who is no known because he was a spectacular aggressor who won lots of battle over seas at the cost of his treasury and a generation of young men (in Contrast to people like Alexander and Napoleon who are considered national heroes). You would know this if you decided to contact me and ask me.







  

 

[rexanglorum]

Yuku blows, lol.