The big 3 just don't get it, nobody wants American cars.

[jordanfiend85]

I alluded to what CPaper posted earlier. I'm just too lazy to type anything up. However, American cars have been improving a lot over the past few years,and European cars (German cars) for the most part nowadays are crap. However, once you have a stigma positive or negative its hard to lose it.

Also to add on to Paper's post, the Unions made huge concessions in 2007 in terms of benefits and taking the pension obligations off the hands of thecompanies themselves. All of it wont be complete to 2011. If you think this is the solution then a bailout plan isnt such a bad idea ( I dont for variousreasons). One they get the huge union liabilities off there chests they can implement a lot of the things they couldnt before because it was cost prohibitive.

 

[javier5857]

did you make this exact post over at CA?

 

[gko2408]

Originally Posted by r33p04s

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

Originally Posted by Mr Fizzy Womack

Goldman Sachs ready to hand out £7bn salary and bonus package... after its £6bn bail-out

By Simon Duke
Last updated at 8:55 AM on 30th October 2008

• Comments (109)
• Added to My Stories

Goldman Sachs is on course to pay its top City bankers multimillion-pound bonuses - despite asking the U.S. government for an emergency bail-out.

The struggling Wall Street bank has set aside £7billion for salaries and 2008 year-end bonuses, it emerged yesterday.

Each of the firm's 443 partners is on course to pocket an average Christmas bonus of more than £3million.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...LLION-salary-bonus-package--6bn-bail-out.htmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...LLION-salary-bonus-package--6bn-bail-out.htmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.u...ackage--6bn-bail-out.htmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.u...ackage--6bn-bail-out.htmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.u...ackage--6bn-bail-out.html

hmmmmm

corruption at its finest


GS Execs gave up their bonuses and are taking in their base salary this year.

 

[toy collector123]

The oil industry should bail these fools out. No need for the tax payers. They have been in the oil industries pockets for years and now I am happy to see themfail.

 

[fromthatown]

I don't think the Union is the problem. Don't try to blame it on the Union when management of the American automobiles have decline. I've beenreading through this thread and I'm curious why do u all think the Union should be destroyed??? Unions are what started paid maternity leave and paidhealth benefits in America. Even if dudes are getting paid 75- 78 dollars, I bet my whole life savings, NOT EVERYONE is making that in the union. 75- 78dollars wages usually goes to people that have been at the company with seniority . If you have parents that are teachers, nurses, and police officers, thesegroup all have unions. If you can knock down one union, you can take out another union. Americans deserves the right to have fair wages and paid health carethat shouldn't have to cripple their cost of living, Unions fight for those rights. I'm not in an autoworker union, however if they are getting paidthat much. I'm thinking it can be a dangerous job and there are risk these people are taking everyday at work. Unions are a dying breed in America, andrather than having people fight for our side.Instead we got people in America that want to get rid of us and let corporations get rich and let the common folkhave no good paying jobs.

 

[ooiron manoo]

I actually wouldn't mind having a Mustang, Camaro, Challenger or a Charger. Also, I'm not in the market anymore, but if I was buying a truck, I wouldbuy American.

Only if the money is right. I currently have an import

 

[untitled]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Can we leave the Dodge Charger/Challenger out of this?

 

[jordanfiend85]

Originally Posted by FromThaTown

I don't think the Union is the problem. Don't try to blame it on the Union when management of the American automobiles have decline. I've been reading through this thread and I'm curious why do u all think the Union should be destroyed??? Unions are what started paid maternity leave and paid health benefits in America. Even if dudes are getting paid 75- 78 dollars, I bet my whole life savings, NOT EVERYONE is making that in the union. 75- 78 dollars wages usually goes to people that have been at the company with seniority . If you have parents that are teachers, nurses, and police officers, these group all have unions. If you can knock down one union, you can take out another union. Americans deserves the right to have fair wages and paid health care that shouldn't have to cripple their cost of living, Unions fight for those rights. I'm not in an autoworker union, however if they are getting paid that much. I'm thinking it can be a dangerous job and there are risk these people are taking everyday at work. Unions are a dying breed in America, and rather than having people fight for our side.Instead we got people in America that want to get rid of us and let corporations get rich and let the common folk have no good paying jobs.

Well it wont matter when the companies dont exist anymore. Unions have outlived their usefullness. And its not 78 dollars in cash its in totalcompensation. Health care is not a right its a privilege. I hate unions as they currently exist, they subsidize laziness and inefficiency.

 

[kicksgetmehigh]

Originally Posted by IHeartBoost

Im sitting here watching the Auto Bailout Hearing on CNN and HFS is really ripping these CEOs a new one,

. These guys have no plan for a chapter 7 or 11, expecting this 25billion to be loaned to them. Also the CEOs are not willing to take pay cuts to help there business.

Exactly. I don't even know why they're wasting time talking about this... I mean... these CEOs are flying to Washington in a private jet that costs 20kinstead of flying first class that'll cost a little under 700 bucks to ask for a handout. Are you +%@##$* kidding me?



Theres so much downside to this bailout that its impossible to focus on the positives. I say let the oil companies bail them out for building so many gasguzzlers to the point that nobody wants to buy their garbage. Where the #**! are the taxpayer's bailouts?

If you ask me... 25 Billion isn't even enough money to secure the jobs as welll as the employee benefits especially when it comes to their retirement &health care.

 

[lauk4kicks]

^yup just saw that on the tv.

Dudes each took a private jet to whatever conference they went to to ask for money. Then they were asked if they would sell their jet and fly commercial backto their office, no one put up their hand.
Dudes are mad greedy and no one wants a FORD, GM or Crys. anywys.

 

[lurkin2long]

Originally Posted by lauk4kicks

^yup just saw that on the tv.

Dudes each took a private jet to whatever conference they went to to ask for money. Then they were asked if they would sell their jet and fly commercial back to their office, no one put up their hand.
Dudes are mad greedy and no one wants a FORD, GM or Crys. anywys.

by any chance...................what doe these dudes drive? do we know? why i have a funny feeling..............

 

[kicksgetmehigh]

Originally Posted by lauk4kicks

^yup just saw that on the tv.

Dudes each took a private jet to whatever conference they went to to ask for money. Then they were asked if they would sell their jet and fly commercial back to their office, no one put up their hand.
Dudes are mad greedy and no one wants a FORD, GM or Crys. anywys.

Whoever is in charge of these bailouts need to grow some balls and say "NO... END OF DISCUSSION"

Never in my life have I seen a country that'll reward companies for screwing up.

 

[cadillacflow]

They have been making crappy cars for years and it's finally catching up to em. People have finally got over the fact that buying a better car from Japanis not un-American like the big 3 wanted people to believe. I've had 3 Accords and my wife now has a Solara, best 4 things I bought in my life.

To say that nobody want's american cars would be a stretch, but once people were forced to buy a Toyota or Honda, american cars wouldn't be missed verylong.

 

[jibbycanoe]

yea I would never buy an american car. but I do understand that is a big part of our economy. things are changing. this is all happening for a reason. thereare too many people on the earth consuming too much...

 

[dirtylicious]

Originally Posted by gko2408

Originally Posted by r33p04s

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

Originally Posted by Mr Fizzy Womack

Goldman Sachs ready to hand out £7bn salary and bonus package... after its £6bn bail-out

By Simon Duke
Last updated at 8:55 AM on 30th October 2008

• Comments (109)
• Added to My Stories

Goldman Sachs is on course to pay its top City bankers multimillion-pound bonuses - despite asking the U.S. government for an emergency bail-out.

The struggling Wall Street bank has set aside £7billion for salaries and 2008 year-end bonuses, it emerged yesterday.

Each of the firm's 443 partners is on course to pocket an average Christmas bonus of more than £3million.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...LLION-salary-bonus-package--6bn-bail-out.htmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...LLION-salary-bonus-package--6bn-bail-out.htmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.u...ackage--6bn-bail-out.htmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.u...ackage--6bn-bail-out.htmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.u...ackage--6bn-bail-out.htmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.u...ackage--6bn-bail-out.html

hmmmmm

corruption at its finest

GS Execs gave up their bonuses and are taking in their base salary this year.


indeed.

November 19, 2008
Goldman Sachs, UBS Pull Plug on Executive Bonuses

Speculation has been high as to whether Wall Street firms would pay out bonuses to their executives after a very difficult year in the financial sector. Citing that it was "the right thing to do" executives at Goldman Sachs Group have given up their year-end bonuses for 2008, the firm has announced.

While Goldman Sachs has fared better than most other firms, its stock is down more than 60 percent in 2008, according to the Wall Street Journal, and it is expected to post its first quarterly loss as a public compnay in December. The executives will only receive their base salaries of $600,000 the Journal reports. The paper anticipates that other Wall Street firms may follow Goldman's lead.

Right on the heels of this announcement, UBS announced that it would cut bonuses for top its executives. UBS, Switzerland's largest bank, was the recipient of a $60 billion bailout this year. Its chairman says he will forgo his bonus from 2007 and 2008 until the company recovers, according to FoxBusiness.com. And, thebank announced that should it "achieve a loss in a subsequent year, no bonus will be awarded". On the heels of a government bailout funded by taxpayers and an economy in which many Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, many firms may justifiably fear public backlash should they pay out hefty bonuses to top executives as planned. However, just last week, it was anticipated that firms such as Goldman and Morgan Stanley were planning on going ahaed with their bounus payouts as planned. According to a CBS news report November 12, several compensation consultants told CBS that firms were worried about losing their top talent when the economy recovered if they didn't pay out the bonuses. CBS reported that Goldman Sachs had set aside $6.8 billion for bonuses, while Morgan Stanley had set aside $6.4 billion.

 

[fromthatown]

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

Originally Posted by FromThaTown

I don't think the Union is the problem. Don't try to blame it on the Union when management of the American automobiles have decline. I've been reading through this thread and I'm curious why do u all think the Union should be destroyed??? Unions are what started paid maternity leave and paid health benefits in America. Even if dudes are getting paid 75- 78 dollars, I bet my whole life savings, NOT EVERYONE is making that in the union. 75- 78 dollars wages usually goes to people that have been at the company with seniority . If you have parents that are teachers, nurses, and police officers, these group all have unions. If you can knock down one union, you can take out another union. Americans deserves the right to have fair wages and paid health care that shouldn't have to cripple their cost of living, Unions fight for those rights. I'm not in an autoworker union, however if they are getting paid that much. I'm thinking it can be a dangerous job and there are risk these people are taking everyday at work. Unions are a dying breed in America, and rather than having people fight for our side.Instead we got people in America that want to get rid of us and let corporations get rich and let the common folk have no good paying jobs.

Well it wont matter when the companies dont exist anymore. Unions have outlived their usefullness. And its not 78 dollars in cash its in total compensation. Health care is not a right its a privilege. I hate unions as they currently exist, they subsidize laziness and inefficiency.

Well the only reason those companies would go under is because management didn't innovate and manage their products. I know the 78 dollars istotal compensation. And like I said I would bet you not every employee in that union is making 78 dollars as total compensation. But the question is what ifthey all did make that much, is it wrong?? The jobs they are working might be dangerous and they operate heavy machines. Try working at a job that involvesmanual labor and heavy machinery where there is a risk of serious or life threatening injuries. I think those union members should have the right to a goodhealth benefit and fair wages just like the nurse, doctor, or police man.Now for you to just say Unions subsidizes laziness and inefficiency is an unfair andignorant statement. You're telling me Nurses, Firefighters, Teachers, Policemens, Service Industry workers,Longshoremans are lazy??? $#@*# These people arehardworking Americans that do the 8-5 to provide for their family and build their wealth inch by inch. I know cause I protest for these unions and I'm aLongshoreman myself. I've worked 36 hours straight just to make sure the imports and exports get to everybody in the world. And it's not only me,it's countless nurses, firefighters, and teachers that are understaff working hard and making these corporations rich yet you wanna blame it on the unionand not on the management that pocket their profits and are still asking for a handout

.

 

[dublbagn]

Well having worked in an auto plant, I have a few things to say....

1) union workers make entirely to much money. They start out at inflated rates for untrained uneducated labor.
2) no one can get fired, so people slack off as much as possible, until they see someone with a clipboard is walking around
3) The Big 3 was giving the people what they wanted, they sold SUV's at an incredible rate, they just did not and cannot make quick judgements anddecisions with a company that big
4) their major flaw was not planning well for the future, thats the main thing they did wrong
5) fat CEO salaries (a problem of many companies) and bonuses for failing is what it basically comes down to.

I am not for the bailout of the auto industry, I dont think the banking industry should have gotten a bail out either, but when too many people are connectedto one industry and it takes a crap the government has to step in. First the Airlines, then the banks, now the auto indrustry, the government has to put itsfoot down. But this money was already set aside to help the auto industries develop new technology.

and for the people that say imports run a better business, you have to look at where they build, how much they pay, do they have 60 years of pensions andhealth care to pay??

and I also think its funny that congress is giving the auto industry all kinds of flak for wanting 25 billion that was already promised to them, and thebanking industry asked for so much more and got it without a blink of an eye.

 

[mc otaku]

GM

 

[spriigan8]

I think GM should shed some of the car company names and flat out combine them. On their webpage they have 86 vehicles available under the companies: Chevy,Hummer, GMC, Pontiac, Hummer, Saab, Cadillac, and Buick. GM is one company competing against itself; why not drop some labels and focus on the ones that areselling?

 

[sorkoram]

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]AT BAT - Bailout.[/color]

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]ON DECK - Hyperinflation

[/color]

 

[rocksfan25]

Originally Posted by theyhatinonme

I agree. These American companies are out of touch and haven't learned anyhting in 20years. I have posted this in other threads but they need to cut all the brands out and just have a lux and regular like they do in Japan. Then they need to focus on cars only no suv. They need to make better compacts and subcompacts than Japan to survive.

I'm not a big car guy but a year or two ago I was watching a business show and they had some rep from GM on. He still claimed that the SUV wasthe future of automobiles, they're way too clueless to ever learn.

 

[corporatejp]

Seriously.

Mustangs, Impalas, Malibus, Solstice > Over-rated noise-makers from Korea.

CEO's and Greedy Union is what really destroyed the U.S. Auto Industry.

Period.

I crush Civics with little lights underneath and dragons on the side with my Impala SS.

Goodnight on that note.

 

[jehul]

Even if dudes are getting paid 75- 78 dollars, I bet my whole life savings, NOT EVERYONE is making that in the union. 75- 78 dollars wages usually goes to people that have been at the company with seniority .
Wrong. The $75-78 figure is the AVG figure, which means the cats you mentioned with seniority get paid more than that amount

(Paying people by seniority and not based on efficiency is probably helped getthe car makers to where they are at no but that's another story

)

Anyway, $75 comes out to about $150K per year for the AVERAGE UAW union member. Mind you that these are 2006 figures and the listed averages are probably allhigher than what is depicted above. To sum it up these Pillsbury doughboys are caking (especially when you think that some of these dudes CONTINUE to get paidif a factory shuts down and the Big 3 can't fire them...$150K/annum to sit on your rear-end = priceless).

Here's a thought: How about the unions tighten they belt before they ask for help? How about reducing compensation so that it mirrors that of the Japanese?Maybe people would have sympathy for these dudes and not see them as simps tryin to run game on taxpayers

 

[iheartboost]

Originally Posted by corporateJP

Seriously.

Mustangs, Impalas, Malibus, Solstice > Over-rated noise-makers from Korea.

CEO's and Greedy Union is what really destroyed the U.S. Auto Industry.

Period.

I crush Civics with little lights underneath and dragons on the side with my Impala SS.

Goodnight on that note.

Hyundai Genesis > Gus guzzler, always in the shop Mustang, Impalas, Malibus and Solstice

Period.

Goodnight on that note.

 

[sickickz23]

say let the oil companies bail them out for building so many gas guzzlers to the point that nobody wants to buy their garbage.
you actually want that to happen? I'll let you look what you posted again before you realize the consequences of that, if OPEC or oilcompanies actually decided to go with it.


Let me help you.
$10.00 per gallon of gas is a start.