The MMA Thread: DON'T ASK 4 STREAMS & NO GIFS- Cannonier, Imavov, Reyes, Rosas on NOW

[Vincent Van Goat]

Like I said before, Conor is at a point where he can do whatever the hell he wants. He needs to fight Woodley for the trifecta. 

We are truly witnessing greatness here. I'm done rooting against Conor (except for Nate). Just gotta sit back and enjoy the ride. 

Everything he's doing now, is what Jon Jones should have already done. Period. 

I'll never be able to root for Conor because I don't like the character, but I can wholeheartedly appreciate his skill/talent at this point. I just hope we get to see him fight the toughest fights and showcase his skill, as opposed to sit and wait for him to pick and choose.

Technical destruction similar to when Holm made Rousey look like a compete amateur. Holm's win was more satisfying to me because Rousey has/had a similar insufferable personality to Conor.

Respect to both of you. It'll be interesting to see how many others on nt feel about Conor going forward

It's clear to me that he's completely fake with his antics before fights. He's clearly not that person and come fight night it's insane how calm he is

 

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Mark Henry just saying that so his training doesn't look trash

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

I'd say they're the same size was that pic of when he was fighting at 45?

 

[carver]

Mark Henry just saying that so his training doesn't look trash

Basically

 

[QU!K]

Ya after a 45 bout

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Conor's legs looked bigger than eddies? Anyone feel the same or am i tripping

 

[illphillip]

Wanted to throw something out there. Has this convo in the gym this AM.

For those of you that have Conor #1 P4P (or anyone else actually since he's gotta be in the Top 3-5 at LEAST at this point).

Does his lack of grappling/submission wins matter to you?

Does it matter what he does/doesn't do on the ground if he can starch everyone on the feet the way he does?

Or do you want your top P4P guy to have that well rounded resume?

 

[QU!K]

It's MMA what does it matter if he has submissions or not

He just needs submission defense which I'm sure he works on with Dillon Danis

He has like 18 KOs in 21 victories or something

You could argue KOing someone is more efficient than submitting them

Forget #1 P4P, Conor is probably top 3-5 GOAT

 

[illphillip]

It's MMA what does it matter if he has submissions or not

That's the point of the question.

Some guys were arguing that they need to see more groundwork before they crown him.

But I think those guys train at Renzo's so they might be biased right about now.

 

[QU!K]

Does Royce Gracie get hated on cause he doesn't have enough KOs?

 

[illphillip]

Dude, relax with the "hated on". It's a conversation.

Royce was at his peak 20 years ago. I have no idea what they were saying about him then.

 

[boxer15]

Silva only has 4 submission wins via grappling as opposed to strikes in 42 fights, Jones has 6 submissions in 23 fights, and GSP has 5 in 37 fights. I don't really think that has an impact on things if he can soundly defeat phenomenal grapplers without being submitted.

I've been pretty vocal in the past regarding my personal opinions on the guys often referred to as all-time greats, but clearly submission wins aren't definitively needed to be considered an all-time great by the media or the majority.

I think Maia put it well on Ariel's show on Monday when he said Conor is doing great things, but he's not an all-time great yet. His reasoning was that the others referred to as all-time greats defended their titles multiple times, whereas we haven't seen Conor defend a title even one time. It doesn't mean he won't or is incapable of doing it, but defenses make you undeniably great to most people.

 

[illphillip]

Interesting. I can see the defenses being a variable.

But moving fluidly between two weight classes and being that dominant at the championship level to me kind of cancels out the lack of defenses.

For the record, those guys all had DJ #1 P4P. My counter to that was that when DJ fought higher, he lost (albeit to another potential P4Per in Cruz).

Their counter to that was that Conor lost to Nate.....via submission.

Good point on Silva, but the subs are there. Even if the sub wins aren't that high for Jones + GSP, you know they are still very well rounded and do work on the ground.

 

[Xennial]

I don't even like Jon Jones but he's still clear #1 P4P

 

[boxer15]

Interesting. I can see the defenses being a variable.

But moving fluidly between two weight classes and being that dominant at the championship level to me kind of cancels out the lack of defenses.

For the record, those guys all had DJ #1 P4P. My counter to that was that when DJ fought higher, he lost (albeit to another potential P4Per in Cruz).

I feel like size is a big factor when discussing DJ competing at heavier weights, given he is only 5'3 with a 64" reach.

McGregor's height and length is a clear advantage at both featherweight and lightweight making it much easier to move from one class to the other. We saw him fight a man with the height and reach advantage in Diaz with neither performance being as phenomenal as he has been against all his other opponents.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Conor needs to defend at least one of his titles a few times before i go calling him an all time great

He's beat a young max, mendes, Aldo, Nate and Eddie

That's a great resume but he needs a few defenses. He's well on his way. If he retired today I'd be a bit undecided on his legacy

Like do people already put him ahead of Aldo? Serious question I know Conor dusted him I'm just asking for perspective

 

[illphillip]

Is Conor your #1 P4P right now?

I would definitely have him ahead of Aldo just for that starching.

I can't unsee that

Interesting that you mention Aldo though because he was long considered a Top 3/#1 P4Per and I can't remember any sub wins from him either.

Looking at other champs, no one talks about Stipe in their P4P. Myself very much included.

But he's won his last 3 fights with 1st round KO's. 2 of them title fights. Last loss was a questionable decision to JDS.

Is that because of his skillset, or is he just not visible/vocal enough? Caliber of opponent?

Curious as to some of the other variables people use as they're assessing the top dogs out there.

As for Jones, I think he's in everyone's rear view at this point.

 

[atransta]

 

[three00zeex]

I don't even know how to say this without sounding like a hater but people crowning Conor as one of the GOATs because he has 2 belts is bs... he never fought at lightweight before... he leapfrogged top contenders right into a title fight. Yeah he won but nobody else would even get that opportunity. If he had fought some top lightweights and then won the title I would agree.

Also him going to fight woodley or better yet mayweather are just win/win situations for him. If he loses, oh he lost to the bigger man or oh he lost to a real boxer all while making tons of cash. If he wins, holy **** I can't imagine the hype. He needs to defend his belts against some of these top ranked guys man.

It's good to be him right now.

 

[boxer15]

Not a fan of the heavyweight class in general because so many guys are terribly coordinated and appear subpar, but can still win by sloppy KOs. Stipe has crisp striking, but he too has been touched in recent fights.

I believe we need to see a significant increase in the number of highly skilled/coordinated heavyweights before they enter the conversation.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

If Conor kos khabib or woodley I would have no issue calling him one of the best ever

Even though he'd skip the welterweight line to get the shot I'd still consider conor one of the best

As far as khabib goes it goes without saying khabib is the real underground king. Undefeated and one of the best uncrowned fighters in the world. If Conor were to finish him I'd also have no issue saying Conor was one of the best ever

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Machidas ruling has been made and will be banned until October

 

[QU!K]

Machidas ruling has been made and will be banned until October

They find something in his drink?

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

They find something in his drink?

My bad here's the link

http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/11/...pended-18-months-by-usada-for-ufc-anti-doping