The MMA Thread: DON'T ASK 4 STREAMS & NO GIFS- UFC 301 in Brazil- Pantoja/Aldo etc. SAT 5/4

Jourdain exposing himself while in scumbag Strickland’s limelight.


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Davey Magoo said:
I don’t know much about present day racial dynamics in South Africa.

How does the average white person like DDP feel about the historical legacy of apartheid?

Is there general unity among white and black in South Africa today?

Or a lingering sense of discord and/or resentment from both sides?

These are things I don’t know the answer to.
Click to expand...

Apartheid was essentially like Jim Crow on steroids and it didn't end until the 90s, just about 30 years ago, so the same way America is still dealing with the history of racism and civil rights, South Africa is too. And different people deal with it differently. Some folks have for sure adopted somewhat of a forgive and forget attitude about it but a lot haven't, there's a ton of raw feelings still. It's a complicated situation.

As an example from my own family, my father's family actually came to America in the 60s because my grandfather had an opportunity to teach in the states, he was a college professor. But when they left they were essentially exiled from South Africa and had their citizenship status stripped. It was an apartheid era strategy, this was pre internet where info from the outside world wasn't as easily available to the average citizen, so the apartheid government didn't want any politically inclined citizens to expatriate and then return with ideas and knowledge from the outside world that would do anything to incite rebellion or give information to aid the freedom fighters that were already working within the country. So they were forced to renounce their citizenship to their ancestor's native country by some foreign colonizers, and they were only able to get their citizenship back after the apartheid govt fell in the 90s.

Another policy of the apartheid government was land redistribution. There was a 1913 land act that said the totality of the native (black) South Africans were only allowed to own 7% of the land in South Africa while the rest was reserved for whites, even though whites were a minority in the country (about 17% of the total pop). This is how townships came about, they're basically the South African version of the projects (Soweto is the largest and probably most known township but there are others). And in 1950 they had the Group Areas Act that allowed the government to designate certain areas to be for use only by a specific race. So essentially they could use this law to evict black south africans from their properties in the most desirable areas with the best plots of land and move them into the underdeveloped outskirts. My fathers family actually had multiple acres of land that were taken from them when they were moved to a township, we have the paperwork and everything to show for it and we've been working on getting it back. The government claimed the land was needed for highways but the highways were never built and today that land is owned by a large mining company. My mother's family was also moved from their neighborhood for similar "reasons" to the townships. The government straight up stole generational wealth from black Africans and created it for the whites (*cough*Dricus*cough* *cough*Elon Musk*cough* *cough*Steve Nash*cough*, etc.). To this day whites in South Africa still own the vast majority of the land in the country (72% in a 2017 government audit), and have been said to own about 90% of the private sector businesses as well.

The economic repercussions of apartheid on black South African can never be overstated, it was devastating. In 2018 the World Bank did a study and concluded that South Africa was the most unequal country in the world, the gap between the rich and the poor was wider than in any other country where comparable data exists, that's how much this **** affected things. Not to mention the social and psychological effects of being treated like third class citizens in their own homeland for multiple generations. 46 years total apartheid lasted. And it went in order: whites, then indians and coloureds (mixed race), then blacks.

And so to answer your questions, is there a lingering sense of resentment? Absolutely. Again it varies amongst people and some people definitely do have more of a forgiving attitude, but for the black Africans that are more socially and politically inclined, especially from the older generations, yeah there's still a whole hell of a lot of hard feelings. For the black guys jumping and cheering for Dricus after his win, I dunno maybe not.

Is there a lot of unity? I would say not particularly, no. South Africa is still very segregated. Blacks and whites aren't necessarily at each others necks in the streets or anything, but there's definitely a tendency to congregate amongst their own. Apartheid ended almost 30 years ago but the rich mostly stayed rich and the poor mostly stayed poor, and blacks and whites are still very segregated in terms of where they live and congregate at the least. In fact there's a place called Orania in South Africa that the last time I checked was still a whites only town that only accepts Afrikaners (*cough*Dricus*cough*). And just to be clear Dricus is actually from Pretoria not Orania, but he is an Afrikaner, and Orania is just an example of how they tend to get down. They have quite the reputation for being racist as ****. Even in f***ing Australia they think these people are overwhelmingly racist *****.

How does the average white person like DDP feel about the historical legacy of apartheid? I'll try to be fair and say I can't say for sure what DDP thinks, but I've seen varying attitudes, kind of like white folks in America tbh. From what I've seen some feel guilty, some definitely speak out and denounce South Africa's apartheid history, some feel indignant at the idea that whites did anything wrong and will constantly talk about how the country has gone to **** since the apartheid government was ousted (*cough*Afrikaners*cough*), some just live their lives and stay somewhat indifferent, just depends.

So yeah with all of that said, Dricus coming out hot with the "real African champ" bs definitely rubbed me the wrong way. He was taking completely uneccessary shots at three black African champs who had to leave Africa for better opportunities, and it's particularly egregious when you consider all the history mentioned above which made it much easier for Dricus's family to stay and thrive right on the continent. And on top of that the general reputation of Afrikaners as discussed above made his comments even more suspect. Again I don't know what the man thinks exactly but at the very least those comments showed a lack of awareness (or just lack of giving a **** maybe) of the historical context that made it more necessary for them to leave vs making it possible for him to stay.

Insane wall of text and kind of wild to be writing this in the MMA thread but I started writing and felt like I needed to give more context. Shoutout to anyone who actually reads all that :lol:. Hope it provided a little bit of insight.
 
blackcease blackcease

Thank you for responding. It’s 4 am in the morning and my mood is sour. I’m going to censor myself from politicizing this thread.

With how close the fight was based on all of the talking heads I've listened to (Luke Thomas, SevereMMA, Bloody Elbow, MMAFighting and PostMMA), it seems like Sean has a legitimate claim he won. His jab seems like a great laser-focused weapon and his defense to kicks is A+.
 
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blackcease said:
Apartheid was essentially like Jim Crow on steroids and it didn't end until the 90s, just about 30 years ago, so the same way America is still dealing with the history of racism and civil rights, South Africa is too. And different people deal with it differently. Some folks have for sure adopted somewhat of a forgive and forget attitude about it but a lot haven't, there's a ton of raw feelings still. It's a complicated situation.

As an example from my own family, my father's family actually came to America in the 60s because my grandfather had an opportunity to teach in the states, he was a college professor. But when they left they were essentially exiled from South Africa and had their citizenship status stripped. It was an apartheid era strategy, this was pre internet where info from the outside world wasn't as easily available to the average citizen, so the apartheid government didn't want any politically inclined citizens to expatriate and then return with ideas and knowledge from the outside world that would do anything to incite rebellion or give information to aid the freedom fighters that were already working within the country. So they were forced to renounce their citizenship to their ancestor's native country by some foreign colonizers, and they were only able to get their citizenship back after the apartheid govt fell in the 90s.

Another policy of the apartheid government was land redistribution. There was a 1913 land act that said the totality of the native (black) South Africans were only allowed to own 7% of the land in South Africa while the rest was reserved for whites, even though whites were a minority in the country (about 17% of the total pop). This is how townships came about, they're basically the South African version of the projects (Soweto is the largest and probably most known township but there are others). And in 1950 they had the Group Areas Act that allowed the government to designate certain areas to be for use only by a specific race. So essentially they could use this law to evict black south africans from their properties in the most desirable areas with the best plots of land and move them into the underdeveloped outskirts. My fathers family actually had multiple acres of land that were taken from them when they were moved to a township, we have the paperwork and everything to show for it and we've been working on getting it back. The government claimed the land was needed for highways but the highways were never built and today that land is owned by a large mining company. My mother's family was also moved from their neighborhood for similar "reasons" to the townships. The government straight up stole generational wealth from black Africans and created it for the whites (*cough*Dricus*cough* *cough*Elon Musk*cough* *cough*Steve Nash*cough*, etc.). To this day whites in South Africa still own the vast majority of the land in the country (72% in a 2017 government audit), and have been said to own about 90% of the private sector businesses as well.

The economic repercussions of apartheid on black South African can never be overstated, it was devastating. In 2018 the World Bank did a study and concluded that South Africa was the most unequal country in the world, the gap between the rich and the poor was wider than in any other country where comparable data exists, that's how much this **** affected things. Not to mention the social and psychological effects of being treated like third class citizens in their own homeland for multiple generations. 46 years total apartheid lasted. And it went in order: whites, then indians and coloureds (mixed race), then blacks.

And so to answer your questions, is there a lingering sense of resentment? Absolutely. Again it varies amongst people and some people definitely do have more of a forgiving attitude, but for the black Africans that are more socially and politically inclined, especially from the older generations, yeah there's still a whole hell of a lot of hard feelings. For the black guys jumping and cheering for Dricus after his win, I dunno maybe not.

Is there a lot of unity? I would say not particularly, no. South Africa is still very segregated. Blacks and whites aren't necessarily at each others necks in the streets or anything, but there's definitely a tendency to congregate amongst their own. Apartheid ended almost 30 years ago but the rich mostly stayed rich and the poor mostly stayed poor, and blacks and whites are still very segregated in terms of where they live and congregate at the least. In fact there's a place called Orania in South Africa that the last time I checked was still a whites only town that only accepts Afrikaners (*cough*Dricus*cough*). And just to be clear Dricus is actually from Pretoria not Orania, but he is an Afrikaner, and Orania is just an example of how they tend to get down. They have quite the reputation for being racist as ****. Even in f***ing Australia they think these people are overwhelmingly racist *****.

How does the average white person like DDP feel about the historical legacy of apartheid? I'll try to be fair and say I can't say for sure what DDP thinks, but I've seen varying attitudes, kind of like white folks in America tbh. From what I've seen some feel guilty, some definitely speak out and denounce South Africa's apartheid history, some feel indignant at the idea that whites did anything wrong and will constantly talk about how the country has gone to **** since the apartheid government was ousted (*cough*Afrikaners*cough*), some just live their lives and stay somewhat indifferent, just depends.

So yeah with all of that said, Dricus coming out hot with the "real African champ" bs definitely rubbed me the wrong way. He was taking completely uneccessary shots at three black African champs who had to leave Africa for better opportunities, and it's particularly egregious when you consider all the history mentioned above which made it much easier for Dricus's family to stay and thrive right on the continent. And on top of that the general reputation of Afrikaners as discussed above made his comments even more suspect. Again I don't know what the man thinks exactly but at the very least those comments showed a lack of awareness (or just lack of giving a **** maybe) of the historical context that made it more necessary for them to leave vs making it possible for him to stay.

Insane wall of text and kind of wild to be writing this in the MMA thread but I started writing and felt like I needed to give more context. Shoutout to anyone who actually reads all that :lol:. Hope it provided a little bit of insight.
Click to expand...
Aye bro, this is hella appreciated. Salute to you
 
blackcease said:
Apartheid was essentially like Jim Crow on steroids and it didn't end until the 90s, just about 30 years ago, so the same way America is still dealing with the history of racism and civil rights, South Africa is too. And different people deal with it differently. Some folks have for sure adopted somewhat of a forgive and forget attitude about it but a lot haven't, there's a ton of raw feelings still. It's a complicated situation.

As an example from my own family, my father's family actually came to America in the 60s because my grandfather had an opportunity to teach in the states, he was a college professor. But when they left they were essentially exiled from South Africa and had their citizenship status stripped. It was an apartheid era strategy, this was pre internet where info from the outside world wasn't as easily available to the average citizen, so the apartheid government didn't want any politically inclined citizens to expatriate and then return with ideas and knowledge from the outside world that would do anything to incite rebellion or give information to aid the freedom fighters that were already working within the country. So they were forced to renounce their citizenship to their ancestor's native country by some foreign colonizers, and they were only able to get their citizenship back after the apartheid govt fell in the 90s.

Another policy of the apartheid government was land redistribution. There was a 1913 land act that said the totality of the native (black) South Africans were only allowed to own 7% of the land in South Africa while the rest was reserved for whites, even though whites were a minority in the country (about 17% of the total pop). This is how townships came about, they're basically the South African version of the projects (Soweto is the largest and probably most known township but there are others). And in 1950 they had the Group Areas Act that allowed the government to designate certain areas to be for use only by a specific race. So essentially they could use this law to evict black south africans from their properties in the most desirable areas with the best plots of land and move them into the underdeveloped outskirts. My fathers family actually had multiple acres of land that were taken from them when they were moved to a township, we have the paperwork and everything to show for it and we've been working on getting it back. The government claimed the land was needed for highways but the highways were never built and today that land is owned by a large mining company. My mother's family was also moved from their neighborhood for similar "reasons" to the townships. The government straight up stole generational wealth from black Africans and created it for the whites (*cough*Dricus*cough* *cough*Elon Musk*cough* *cough*Steve Nash*cough*, etc.). To this day whites in South Africa still own the vast majority of the land in the country (72% in a 2017 government audit), and have been said to own about 90% of the private sector businesses as well.

The economic repercussions of apartheid on black South African can never be overstated, it was devastating. In 2018 the World Bank did a study and concluded that South Africa was the most unequal country in the world, the gap between the rich and the poor was wider than in any other country where comparable data exists, that's how much this **** affected things. Not to mention the social and psychological effects of being treated like third class citizens in their own homeland for multiple generations. 46 years total apartheid lasted. And it went in order: whites, then indians and coloureds (mixed race), then blacks.

And so to answer your questions, is there a lingering sense of resentment? Absolutely. Again it varies amongst people and some people definitely do have more of a forgiving attitude, but for the black Africans that are more socially and politically inclined, especially from the older generations, yeah there's still a whole hell of a lot of hard feelings. For the black guys jumping and cheering for Dricus after his win, I dunno maybe not.

Is there a lot of unity? I would say not particularly, no. South Africa is still very segregated. Blacks and whites aren't necessarily at each others necks in the streets or anything, but there's definitely a tendency to congregate amongst their own. Apartheid ended almost 30 years ago but the rich mostly stayed rich and the poor mostly stayed poor, and blacks and whites are still very segregated in terms of where they live and congregate at the least. In fact there's a place called Orania in South Africa that the last time I checked was still a whites only town that only accepts Afrikaners (*cough*Dricus*cough*). And just to be clear Dricus is actually from Pretoria not Orania, but he is an Afrikaner, and Orania is just an example of how they tend to get down. They have quite the reputation for being racist as ****. Even in f***ing Australia they think these people are overwhelmingly racist *****.

How does the average white person like DDP feel about the historical legacy of apartheid? I'll try to be fair and say I can't say for sure what DDP thinks, but I've seen varying attitudes, kind of like white folks in America tbh. From what I've seen some feel guilty, some definitely speak out and denounce South Africa's apartheid history, some feel indignant at the idea that whites did anything wrong and will constantly talk about how the country has gone to **** since the apartheid government was ousted (*cough*Afrikaners*cough*), some just live their lives and stay somewhat indifferent, just depends.

So yeah with all of that said, Dricus coming out hot with the "real African champ" bs definitely rubbed me the wrong way. He was taking completely uneccessary shots at three black African champs who had to leave Africa for better opportunities, and it's particularly egregious when you consider all the history mentioned above which made it much easier for Dricus's family to stay and thrive right on the continent. And on top of that the general reputation of Afrikaners as discussed above made his comments even more suspect. Again I don't know what the man thinks exactly but at the very least those comments showed a lack of awareness (or just lack of giving a **** maybe) of the historical context that made it more necessary for them to leave vs making it possible for him to stay.

Insane wall of text and kind of wild to be writing this in the MMA thread but I started writing and felt like I needed to give more context. Shoutout to anyone who actually reads all that :lol:. Hope it provided a little bit of insight.
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Wow…a lot to unpack here.

Appreciate the thought put into it.🙏
 
Listened to Ariels show on Spotify and on the lead up to the ppv he's been asking Izzys team if they'd be ready by April and everytime they'd say no. Maybe things change with money but looking like him vs DDP may be later on, if they go that route.
 
Ariel repeated the same info on his post-PPV show on Ringer. Maybe he'll say something different today but UFC 300 ME is still up in the air.
 
I would guess the ufc had a few options and priorities that hinged on the results of Saturday

I think izzy was also waiting in a way to see exactly how things panned out

by process of elimination 300 always felt like it would come down to a handful of names
 
Here is the headbutt

Man, a lot of people thought Strickland won. Again I don’t disagree with it

What a crazy way to change everyone’s destinies and life paths. Izzy, Strickland, ddp and beyond

If Strickland pulled it off it obviously changes everything

 
Not starting anything but I was going to mention this even before Strickland posted that …

We all argued whether or not izzy “got his *** beat” by Strickland. I felt like he got beat and outsparred fair and square and lost in every sense of the word.. embarrassed even.. just didn’t jive with an *** beating

But look at ddp’s face lol he got beat tf up way worse than izzy… and still “won”

Just something funny to think about. You could get “your *** beat” and still win. I guess *** beat and winning are separate in my mind. You can easily win without inflicting all that much damage

Ddp fought back unlike izzy did so he kicked some *** himself
 
Vincent Van Goat said:
Here is the headbutt

Man, a lot of people thought Strickland won. Again I don’t disagree with it

What a crazy way to change everyone’s destinies and life paths. Izzy, Strickland, ddp and beyond

If Strickland pulled it off it obviously changes everything

Click to expand...

I think Strickland won but incidental headbutts don’t get called ALL the time. DDP won, he is the champ…case closed.
 
mr z said:
I think Strickland won but incidental headbutts don’t get called ALL the time. DDP won, he is the champ…case closed.
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It is. It’s still crazy to think about how these close calls can change your entire life. I jokingly said it should be a draw but now I think that’s a better call than ddp winning

Idk I thought it was so close in real time and after the fact I feel like idk who even won
 
Vincent Van Goat said:
Here is the headbutt

Man, a lot of people thought Strickland won. Again I don’t disagree with it

What a crazy way to change everyone’s destinies and life paths. Izzy, Strickland, ddp and beyond

If Strickland pulled it off it obviously changes everything

Click to expand...


Accidental head butt doesn’t even look like it did anything, the elbow immediately after busted him open.
 
Vincent Van Goat said:
It is. It’s still crazy to think about how these close calls can change your entire life. I jokingly said it should be a draw but now I think that’s a better call than ddp winning

Idk I thought it was so close in real time and after the fact I feel like idk who even won
Click to expand...
If Strickland had a better game plan for being offensive against the take down attempts he probably finishes DDP but oh well. It’s gonna mad weird if DDP keeps this win streak going though. The undisputed champ at 185 having terrible striking and no defense is mad weird. No way he gets passed Izzy, Strickland(again), Cannonier and Khamzat :lol:
 
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