The NY Times Made Ninjahood's Argument for Him (Since We Disagree With "His Point")

[mytmouse76]

Originally Posted by enlightendespot

BTW this is coming from a Latino from Africa.

Pics?

 

[monstar1]

Originally Posted by enlightendespot

Just needed a clarification. Your arguing the difference between african american and black american, in which i agree with you.

Yeah man.  When a black person explains another black person they say "hes black (american) or african (african)"  Ya'll know the differences stop playing dumb.

Some other races especially whites will just say "he's black" and include everybody from Obama to Michael Blackson to Ninjahood

  

But WE know the differences.  If you or your parents are from DR then I don't care if you albino or crunchy black you are hispanic or latino.  Not black.

 

[aka longstroke]

http://www.international.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=4125

[h1]The Subtle Racism of Latin America[/h1]
Carlos Moore sees a disguised racism permeating Latin American society, invented by Arabs in the Iberian Peninsula.

Anson Musselman 

While many believe that Arab and Latin American societies have a better track record in regard to race than the United States, Dr. Carlos Moore, resident scholar at Brazil's Universidade do Estado da Bahia, contends that this impression is wrong. Moore, a black man raised in pre-Castro Cuba, believes that while these societies may look color blind on the surface, race actually dominates every aspect of social and political life. Moore is best known for his book Castro, the Blacks, and Africa (CAAS, 1989), and African Presence in the Americas, co-edited with Shawna Moore and Tanya R. Sanders (Africa World Press, 1996).

This lecture took place in UCLA's Haynes Hall May 19 and was sponsored by the African Studies Center, the Ralph Bunche Center for African American Studies, and the UCLA Department of Political Science.

The Arab Model

Moore in his youth set out to find what historical events led to the establishment of a racial hierarchy in Latin America, where race mixing is the norm, yet lightness and darkness of skin still matters. His findings led him to believe that the paradigms of race in Latin America are directly descended from the time when Arabs controlled the Iberian Peninsula, the homeland of Spanish and Portuguese colonialism in the Americas.

Arabs successfully invaded the Iberian Peninsula (today Spain and Portugal) in 711 CE. The Moorish culture that was established was known as Andalusia. By the late 1200s Christian armies had expelled the majority of Muslims from Iberia.

"I have had the privilege to have lived in Arab countries," Moore said, "and to be shocked by the extraordinary similarities to Latin America of structures of race in countries like Egypt. It was familiar ground. I was twenty-one, had just left Cuba. I lived in Egypt for a year. I was surprised to see how it was as though I had not left Cuba except for the fact that they spoke Arabic and adhered to the Muslim religion. From then on I began to study the structures of race relations in the Arab countries in a comparative way with relations in the Iberian Peninsula and Latin America. That became my focus."

Moore told the audience that the Northern Europeans, “inventors of Apartheid," have traditionally feared the black person, while Europeans from the Iberian Peninsula, as well as their descendants in Latin America, have no such fear. As he put it, "in the U.S. one drop of black blood makes someone black. In Latin America one drop of white blood makes you white."

 

[monstar1]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by MonStar1

Originally Posted by enlightendespot

Mon star, Black=african american? Lulz So since my dad is from a french speaking african nation and my mom is from a spanish speaking african nation that means im african and not black? Cuz we eat different foods and have different music. Lmao

Son you are TRYING WAYYYY TOO HARD.  I'm not saying you aren't black.  You are more than "black" you have different cultures.  So you are african or whatever mix you wanna call yourself.

And Yes I have NO connection to Africa besides my skin color.  I'm saying that because I'm ashamed of my roots or some BS. but most blacks in the US have the same culture as whites.  If you don't wear any clothes, eat any foods, celebrate any holidays, speak a different language, etc. how can I be connected to Africa?  I'm an American black.  it is what it is.

 

So why does ninjahood call everyone else black? African Americans are no less African than he is, they both share the connection of African slaves being dumped in the Americas and they both have a  lot of mixed blood

I'm not going to argue the whole orgins of certain islands and etc.  Unlike most of ya'll I'll admit I'm not knowledgeable on that area of this convo.  But he feels like if you are of Latino/Hispanic bloodlines or whatever then you aren't black.  I really can't say I have a problem with that.

Let's not act we don't understand that most people consider black to mean "roots from africa". 

Black Americans with no real connection to Africa are still black because thats where we came from. 

Africans and Africans that live in US, england, Canada, anywhere else in the world are Black too. They just have a culture they we don't.

 

[aka longstroke]

Originally Posted by MonStar1

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by MonStar1


Son you are TRYING WAYYYY TOO HARD.  I'm not saying you aren't black.  You are more than "black" you have different cultures.  So you are african or whatever mix you wanna call yourself.

And Yes I have NO connection to Africa besides my skin color.  I'm saying that because I'm ashamed of my roots or some BS. but most blacks in the US have the same culture as whites.  If you don't wear any clothes, eat any foods, celebrate any holidays, speak a different language, etc. how can I be connected to Africa?  I'm an American black.  it is what it is.

 

So why does ninjahood call everyone else black? African Americans are no less African than he is, they both share the connection of African slaves being dumped in the Americas and they both have a  lot of mixed blood

I'm not going to argue the whole orgins of certain islands and etc.  Unlike most of ya'll I'll admit I'm not knowledgeable on that area of this convo.  But he feels like if you are of Latino/Hispanic bloodlines or whatever then you aren't black.  I really can't say I have a problem with that.

Let's not act we don't understand that most people consider black to mean "roots from africa". 

Black Americans with no real connection to Africa are still black because thats where we came from. 

Africans and Africans that live in US, england, Canada, anywhere else in the world are Black too. They just have a culture they we don't.

Moore told the audience that the Northern Europeans, “inventors of Apartheid," have traditionally feared the black person, while Europeans from the Iberian Peninsula, as well as their descendants in Latin America, have no such fear. As he put it, "in the U.S. one drop of black blood makes someone black. In Latin America one drop of white blood makes you white."

 

[enlightendespot]

^ son are we discussing race or ethnicity? Because im sure you understand that hispanic(coming from a spanish speaking country) and latino(coming from a latin based language speaking country) are ethnicities and arent mutually exclusive from race.

 

[aka longstroke]

Originally Posted by enlightendespot

^ son are we discussing race or ethnicity? Because im sure you understand that hispanic(coming from a spanish speaking country) and latino(coming from a latin based language speaking country) are ethnicities and arent mutually exclusive from race.

Read.

[h1]The Subtle Racism of Latin America[/h1]
Carlos Moore sees a disguised racism permeating Latin American society, invented by Arabs in the Iberian Peninsula.

Anson Musselman 

While many believe that Arab and Latin American societies have a better track record in regard to race than the United States, Dr. Carlos Moore, resident scholar at Brazil's Universidade do Estado da Bahia, contends that this impression is wrong. Moore, a black man raised in pre-Castro Cuba, believes that while these societies may look color blind on the surface, race actually dominates every aspect of social and political life. Moore is best known for his book Castro, the Blacks, and Africa (CAAS, 1989), and African Presence in the Americas, co-edited with Shawna Moore and Tanya R. Sanders (Africa World Press, 1996).

This lecture took place in UCLA's Haynes Hall May 19 and was sponsored by the African Studies Center, the Ralph Bunche Center for African American Studies, and the UCLA Department of Political Science.

The Arab Model

Moore in his youth set out to find what historical events led to the establishment of a racial hierarchy in Latin America, where race mixing is the norm, yet lightness and darkness of skin still matters. His findings led him to believe that the paradigms of race in Latin America are directly descended from the time when Arabs controlled the Iberian Peninsula, the homeland of Spanish and Portuguese colonialism in the Americas.

Arabs successfully invaded the Iberian Peninsula (today Spain and Portugal) in 711 CE. The Moorish culture that was established was known as Andalusia. By the late 1200s Christian armies had expelled the majority of Muslims from Iberia.

"I have had the privilege to have lived in Arab countries," Moore said, "and to be shocked by the extraordinary similarities to Latin America of structures of race in countries like Egypt. It was familiar ground. I was twenty-one, had just left Cuba. I lived in Egypt for a year. I was surprised to see how it was as though I had not left Cuba except for the fact that they spoke Arabic and adhered to the Muslim religion. From then on I began to study the structures of race relations in the Arab countries in a comparative way with relations in the Iberian Peninsula and Latin America. That became my focus."

 

[rufiorufiorufio]

Originally Posted by Dagrandesoda

Originally Posted by SneakerHeathen

Originally Posted by Dagrandesoda

nobody asked him to post his personal pictures. He took it upon himself.

so? now you know him? now you got the right to pigeonhole people? G.T.F.O.H. 

I see your on a cruedsade to try to save somebody who dont need saving. LOL at you thinking u gonna stop ppl from grilling ninja for his self hate.


GIFSoup

Dude stop trolling, your mad annoying even without the s hun s hun bull crap.
every one please report the personal attacking him and swag OD LMAO i mean Odie are doing in this thread

 

[rufiorufiorufio]

I feel bad for minorities, (im asian so we get the pass as being a model minority, smh).

Institutionalized racism causes arguments like this.

People don't realize they are feeding a cycle that keeps minorities down.

Dominant society shoves in our mind that white is good and black is bad.

Therefore you do get alot of minorities dissociating themselves from anything black.

and to touch on another point, the use of color clearly encourages a loss of identity and culture in this country.

I get into these discussions because as a therapist, culture and social justice affect people so much but often times they are unaware.

I'm gonna post a journal entry I did for my gender and ethnicity class in this thread.

Hopefully NT fam is willing to read. It reflects my experience on this whole discussion.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by RufioRufioRufio

I feel bad for minorities, (im asian so we get the pass as being a model minority, smh).

Institutionalized racism causes arguments like this.

People don't realize they are feeding a cycle that keeps minorities down.

Dominant society shoves in our mind that white is good and black is bad.

Therefore you do get alot of minorities dissociating themselves from anything black.

and to touch on another point, the use of color clearly encourages a loss of identity and culture in this country.

I get into these discussions because as a therapist, culture and social justice affect people so much but often times they are unaware.

I'm gonna post a journal entry I did for my gender and ethnicity class in this thread.

Hopefully NT fam is willing to read. It reflects my experience on this whole discussion.

Meh there are Asians that do the same, people in Thailand and India bleach their skin to look more european

It's ironic that people who don't think (no names) try to say I'm not "black" enough based on my love for white women- I'm unapologetically black-The reason why I reject Judeochristianity it because I'm African, if I died today and had a choice to be reincarnated I'd choose Ibo

 

[rufiorufiorufio]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by RufioRufioRufio

I feel bad for minorities, (im asian so we get the pass as being a model minority, smh).

Institutionalized racism causes arguments like this.

People don't realize they are feeding a cycle that keeps minorities down.

Dominant society shoves in our mind that white is good and black is bad.

Therefore you do get alot of minorities dissociating themselves from anything black.

and to touch on another point, the use of color clearly encourages a loss of identity and culture in this country.

I get into these discussions because as a therapist, culture and social justice affect people so much but often times they are unaware.

I'm gonna post a journal entry I did for my gender and ethnicity class in this thread.

Hopefully NT fam is willing to read. It reflects my experience on this whole discussion.

Meh there are Asians that do the same, people in Thailand and India bleach their skin to look more european

It's ironic that people who don't think (no names) try to say I'm not "black" enough based on my love for white women- I'm unapologetically black-The reason why I reject Judeochristianity it because I'm African, if I died today and had a choice to be reincarnated I'd choose Ibo

Yea I know what you mean in terms of Asians. My bad if you thought I was trying to separate Asians.
But you back up my point, it's an inherent shame that minorities are brainwashed with.

It's funny how I teased you in past religions thread about how your raceial identity played a part in your rejection of religion, because during the semester I learned how Religion really effects minorities.  How it is a tool of both oppression and hope at the same time. I guess thats why religious debates are so heated. Yeas, I apologize for doing that in the past.

Anyways. I wish people wouldn't jump so quickly at Ninjahood when he embraces his own culture.

What do you think it means that people immediately claim he's running away from being black? (question fro everybody)

Clearly our implications are people run away from anything related to black.  Why? Because our society tells us that we should run away from it.

 

[rufiorufiorufio]

EDIT: yuku gon ****oo

 

[sillyputty]

Henry Louis Gates presents: Black in Latin America – Haiti and the Dominican Republic
Hopefully this puts an end to this.




Simply put, people would much rather forget that they have connections to the motherland. In fact, its offensive to many of you to even consider it.




Oh, and that NYT article is crap, IMO. Its too biased without offering any objective introspection. The author just wants to be free to make up their own facts.




In as much as I disagree with labels overall since many of them are devoid of meaning, I still think that the definition of "Latinos" becoming "white" overtime is very telling of some greater influence.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

The problem I see with it is it comes off as trying to separate from a group of people as if there's something wrong with it.

Maybe I'm way off base, but it's a way of thinking that's instilled in a lot of minorities.

 

[enlightendespot]

Originally Posted by AKA LONGSTROKE

Originally Posted by enlightendespot

^ son are we discussing race or ethnicity? Because im sure you understand that hispanic(coming from a spanish speaking country) and latino(coming from a latin based language speaking country) are ethnicities and arent mutually exclusive from race.

Read.

[h1][/h1]

I was referring to the MonStar1 above you but since you replied, what part of my post contested anything from the article you posted? Ethnicity and race arent one in the same.
  

 

[jd214]

Originally Posted by 0cks

Cats just don't want to be associated with Africa if they can get away with it... I have never seen a caucasian deny any European roots, there's nothing to be "ashamed" of, but you have real life trolls like 

Definitely agree with this,

Same thing with Mexicans, most of us/them claim that we/they don't have Spansh roots, but we/they do,

Spain is the Motherland. (sort of)

 

[aka longstroke]

I loved that series, as it completely destroyed the racist myths in the Latin community.
My favorite quote, 

Dominicans are in complete denial of who they are.

As are some Puerto Ricans,  even many West Indians, Jamaicans, Haitians, Trinidadians, who'll suggest that they are West Indian, before being considered Black. 

 

[aka longstroke]

Originally Posted by enlightendespot

Originally Posted by AKA LONGSTROKE

Originally Posted by enlightendespot

^ son are we discussing race or ethnicity? Because im sure you understand that hispanic(coming from a spanish speaking country) and latino(coming from a latin based language speaking country) are ethnicities and arent mutually exclusive from race.

Read.

[h1][/h1]

I was referring to the MonStar1 above you but since you replied, what part of my post contested anything from the article you posted? Ethnicity and race arent one in the same.
  

My bad, yuku told me that you were Monstar1 in the last post. I keep getting thread doesn't exist banners as well.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by JD214

Originally Posted by 0cks

Cats just don't want to be associated with Africa if they can get away with it... I have never seen a caucasian deny any European roots, there's nothing to be "ashamed" of, but you have real life trolls like�

Definitely agree with this,

Same thing with Mexicans, most of us/them claim that we/they don't have Spansh roots, but we/they do,

Spain is the Motherland. (sort of)

If I remember, you said you were Mexican, right?



Do you know that modern day mexican's are pretty much a created people from the native inhabitants there? They were mixed with slaves almost hundreds of years before most of the places we think of as "slave hubs"




I got something for you, too.




Henry Louis Gates presents: Black in Latin America — Mexico and Peru

Some metrics suggest there is might be more racism towards black mexicans than in most places. People straight HATE to be reminded they have black roots.







You're entitled to your own opinions, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

 

[monstar1]

Originally Posted by AKA LONGSTROKE

I loved that series, as it completely destroyed the racist myths in the Latin community.
My favorite quote, 

Dominicans are in complete denial of who they are.

As are some Puerto Ricans,  even many West Indians, Jamaicans, Haitians, Trinidadians, who'll suggest that they are West Indian, before being considered Black. 


Why can't West Indians be "West Indians"?  We know they are "black" and they know it but if you expect people to ignore the customs and culture that makes them different than a normal american black then you are asking for a bit much.  You want them all to be like "I'm black just like you." but thats not really true.

While I see your agenda about people disassociating with black for negative reasons, but I feel like only a SMALL % of people do that.  The others are just embracing their own culture that makes them different.

 

[thunderchunk69]

Originally Posted by AKA LONGSTROKE

Dominicans are in complete denial of who they are.

As are some Puerto Ricans,  even many West Indians, Jamaicans, Haitians, Trinidadians, who'll suggest that they are West Indian, before being considered Black. 

see what I'm saying
don't just single out ninjahood and Dominicans.

offend everyone.

swing for the fences 

edit:

Moore told the audience that the Northern Europeans, “inventors of Apartheid," have traditionally feared the black person, while Europeans from the Iberian Peninsula, as well as their descendants in Latin America, have no such fear. As he put it, "in the U.S. one drop of black blood makes someone black. In Latin America one drop of white blood makes you white."

lmao, can't this be deemed racist in the other direction as well? 

isn't claiming someone black just because they have 1/16th black ancestry an historically racist tactic?

but you want to use it to defend your arguments now? 

edit:

 I wouldnt even mind if you guys brought up institutionalized racism that obviously exists almost everywhere in the world (because then it could be changed)

but you guys are just pointing fingers to feel blacker/prouder of yourselves and it's borderline bullying when it gets to the 15th thread in 12 months 

 

[aka longstroke]

Originally Posted by MonStar1

Originally Posted by AKA LONGSTROKE

I loved that series, as it completely destroyed the racist myths in the Latin community.
My favorite quote, 

Dominicans are in complete denial of who they are.

As are some Puerto Ricans,  even many West Indians, Jamaicans, Haitians, Trinidadians, who'll suggest that they are West Indian, before being considered Black. 

Why can't West Indians be "West Indians"?  We know they are "black" and they know it but if you expect people to ignore the customs and culture that makes them different than a normal american black then you are asking for a bit much.  You want them all to be like "I'm black just like you." but thats not really true.

While I see your agenda about people disassociating with black for negative reasons, but I feel like only a SMALL % of people do that.  The others are just embracing their own culture that makes them different.
Culturally they are West Indian. There is nothing wrong with having pride in your culture, just as northerners possessing pride in theirs versus the southern way of life.
The problem lies when people decide when they are Black, becoming Black when it is convenient.

 

[monstar1]

Originally Posted by AKA LONGSTROKE

Originally Posted by MonStar1

Originally Posted by AKA LONGSTROKE

I loved that series, as it completely destroyed the racist myths in the Latin community.
My favorite quote, 

As are some Puerto Ricans,  even many West Indians, Jamaicans, Haitians, Trinidadians, who'll suggest that they are West Indian, before being considered Black. 

Why can't West Indians be "West Indians"?  We know they are "black" and they know it but if you expect people to ignore the customs and culture that makes them different than a normal american black then you are asking for a bit much.  You want them all to be like "I'm black just like you." but thats not really true.

While I see your agenda about people disassociating with black for negative reasons, but I feel like only a SMALL % of people do that.  The others are just embracing their own culture that makes them different.

Culturally they are West Indian. There is nothing wrong with having pride in your culture, just as northerners possessing pride in theirs versus the southern way of life.
The problem lies when people decide when they are Black, becoming Black when it is convenient.

When is it convenient?  In a convo just to piss you off?  Let them say whatever.

I'm not sure WHERE, WHEN, and HOW people can be black when its convenient in a real world situation. 

Would you argue with Uncle Rukus or just let him think he's really white?

 

[aka longstroke]

ThunderChunk69 wrote:changed)
but you guys are just pointing fingers to feel blacker/prouder of yourselves and it's borderline bullying when it gets to the 15th thread in 12 months 


There it is. I see you. I am sure that anyone with the ability to deduce can see you as well.
You're afraid, and I don't blame you. Move to the North Pole, didn't you hear? We don't like cold weather.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by AKA LONGSTROKE

Originally Posted by MonStar1

Originally Posted by AKA LONGSTROKE

I loved that series, as it completely destroyed the racist myths in the Latin community.
My favorite quote, 

As are some Puerto Ricans,  even many West Indians, Jamaicans, Haitians, Trinidadians, who'll suggest that they are West Indian, before being considered Black. 

Why can't West Indians be "West Indians"?  We know they are "black" and they know it but if you expect people to ignore the customs and culture that makes them different than a normal american black then you are asking for a bit much.  You want them all to be like "I'm black just like you." but thats not really true.

While I see your agenda about people disassociating with black for negative reasons, but I feel like only a SMALL % of people do that.  The others are just embracing their own culture that makes them different.

Culturally they are West Indian. There is nothing wrong with having pride in your culture, just as northerners possessing pride in theirs versus the southern way of life.
The problem lies when people decide when they are Black, becoming Black when it is convenient.

Exactly.
Dude probably doesn't know any jamaicans to be honest. 

My parents are jamaican and are proudly west indian. Jamaicans are culturally diverse, and surprisingly there isn't as much outright black vs. white racism there. The major issue is class, but thats everywhere. 

My parents didn't really embrace being "black" as much as they had to before they came to this country.