The Official NBA Season Thread: Canada vs Australia at 7:30 | Japan vs France at 11:15 | Brazil vs Germany at 3

[osh kosh bosh]

if NBA players don't care about the history of the league, that's fine.
if they don't care about the future players who are harmed by less popular league, okay that's their choice.

if they are only narrowly concerned about their own salaries, and they want maximize that at the expense of any other consideration. okay, that's your choice.


but in what world do you get to do public antisocial things and face zero criticism?
it's feels like this weird Milton Friendman ideology come to basketball "a company has no social responsibility to the public or society; its only responsibility is to its shareholders"


we live in a free country, you can do antisocial things for your own benefit.

but that will generally piss people off, it's actually a normal human reaction.

 

[aepps20]

This is completely false. You did exactly what you're claiming Melo is doing: create a made up narrative and running with it for talking points.

What's false? Melo wanted out, was traded to his preferred destination and that's been that. He is the one constantly bringing up his departure in light of the fact the Nuggets didn't retire his jersey and now 15 is worn by someone else. Melo didn't start talking until after the Nuggets won. Jokic has been wearing 15 since he was drafted and Melo didn't say anything about it until last summer.

 

[adobecs4]

This all started with Melo's podcast adventures last week and other times. From his revisionist history on the rebuild to not understanding why his jersey wasn't retired. The facts are that he told the team he wouldn't resign and he was moved to his preferred destination. GK hates him and is joining in but all this stuff about the team wanting to rebuild doesn't hold water.

You're still loud and wrong

 

[aepps20]

You're still loud and wrong

Care to enlighten us on what happened?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Spoiler

.

it's basically a 3 hour commercial on national TV on how much the NBA sucks.
that will generate hours and hours of national media coverage about how the NBA sucks.

I can do math

There will be thousands of more hours of how much it doesn't

I think the playoff product matters way more for the public perception of the NBA

These has been going on for a while, besides a few angry people around All-Star Sunday, I don't see it hurting the product on balance.

I think that's really bad. you can call it vibes I guess in the sense that basically all of marketing is vibes.
but the risk of injury in a game that historically never has injuries seems like pretty small price to pay.

Again, I gonna need something more than a guess here.

If he feels he's at risk for injury he shouldn't play.

They will fine and probably suspend him if he does

again the entire history of the NBA, players were totally capable of calibrating their effort, to get a good work out in, try a bit and not injure themselves.
it's hard for me to understand what has changed. were the previous players stupid? were they more durable?

Maybe the modern NBA just figures that the All-Star game is not worth much effort.

I am fine acknowledging older generation cared more. I just don't knock modern ones for caring less

And wanting to minimize the probability as close to zero as possible

Im not asking for playoff effort, or regular season effort, but something close to pro am effort is totally reasonable.

Ok, it is fine to want that.

I don't think it will make that much of a difference. That could still result is a horrible product

like would you find it acceptable if each team just took turns taking half court shots all game? i mean that would lower the risk of injury to zero ritgh?

If they said it was a half-court shooting contest beforehand, I wouldn't care.

But all you seem to be doing here is being hyperbolic to try to counter my example.

Don't think it is an argument I should take seriously.

clearly there's a balance to strike. and I don't understand how 80 year of nba players could find that balance, but these players can't.

whatever balance their is to strike I think the players are not even close to the acceptable range.

All you are doing here is appealing to tradition

You can't quantify to back up your claim the players should care so much, so you are not coming with "older players did it, so newer players should act the same way"

jokic is notable because he's highly unusual, most NBA players hoop during the summer at some point.
and tbh I think he's exaggerating a lot of that, Aaron Gordon talked about going to sombor, he said they worked out.
again i think it's more about being cool, it's cool to be "aw shucks I don't even hoop during the off season"

Ok, Jokic cares about his off-season workouts

And players at play in runs to prepare for the upcoming season do too.

I was more talking about the sample you using clearly having a bias in it.

I still don't see this "you try hard during training, why don't you try during this exhibition" as compelling of an argument

I think the fines are about shame, I think the flopping fines worked under the same principle.
getting a reputation for egregious totally fake flopping was something players wanted to avoid. and I think it worked.

There is nothing to be ashamed about if everyone, or a large group, does it.

And using another one of your arguments, small fines are enough to overcome social media-motivated group social dynamics. Really?

fair enough, I think it's highly anti social behaviour spured on by group social dynamics.

If so, it is not the NBA player's fault for when they were born and what technology was around at the time

By your logic then, if Twitter was around in the 80s and 90s Bird, MJ, and Magic would be doing the same ****. This then undercuts the whole "older players were better at this" argument from before.

 

[don ramon]

This all started with Melo's podcast adventures last week and other times. From his revisionist history on the rebuild to not understanding why his jersey wasn't retired. The facts are that he told the team he wouldn't resign and he was moved to his preferred destination. GK hates him and is joining in but all this stuff about the team wanting to rebuild doesn't hold water.

the attempt to malign began when carmelo was an active player not as a reaction to last week's podcast.
have never heard any chatter claiming that carmelo anthony is/was a talker or a phony.
the eagerness to chip away at his character (not his game) over time is pretty baseless and unwarranted.

some knicks fans have potentially as much to gripe about given the results of his tenure with the team, but taking shots at his character is just low imo

 

[RustyShackleford]

It’s comical. The vast majority of the league is on vacation and 24 guys are representing the league to corporate sponsors. The game gets worse and the entire weekend gets bigger and more corporatized. I don’t think most people understand the business of sports at all.

The NBA put in a LED basketball court just so they could appease sponsors, and make more ad money

Instead of using the cool piece of tech to make the fan experience better, they make the court an eyesore for half the time

I am supposed to think they care about me?

But because the NBA players didn't go hard during an exhibition game; and Adam Silver got angry because he got a little embarrassed in front of the people he was wining and dining, I am supposed to feel personally slighted by the players.

 

[ballinsam23]

Change the ASW venue to Rucker Park and players will play harder. In the cold too.

 

[RustyShackleford]

if NBA players don't care about the history of the league, that's fine.
if they don't care about the future players who are harmed by less popular league, okay that's their choice.

if they are only narrowly concerned about their own salaries, and they want maximize that at the expense of any other consideration. okay, that's your choice.


but in what world do you get to do public antisocial things and face zero criticism?
it's feels like this weird Milton Friendman ideology come to basketball "a company has no social responsibility to the public or society; its only responsibility is to its shareholders"


we live in a free country, you can do antisocial things for your own benefit.

but that will generally piss people off, it's actually a normal human reaction.

Oh please dude

People are just having negative opinions about your negative opinions

Come off it

 

[pmatic]

 

[RustyShackleford]

Change the ASW venue to Rucker Park and players will play harder. In the cold too.

Nah, I have a better idea

Winners of the game get a dinner with Jay-Z

Fans gonna see Finals game 7 level effort.

 

[D StaXX]

Less games = less money for everyone. That's not a realistic solution.

The money is bigger than ever, from all what they say that's the only way to get them to compete but I think it's just a rouse, they won't compete with more money on the line at all multiple dudes saying they don't want to be there and these are the superstars of the league.

You can't expect guys who need to meet the 65 game minimum to play hard during an exhibition game. Most All Stars are already top dollar guys, so Silver needs to find a way to incentivize them with something else.

Stars will probably be willing to substitute a few non televised NBA games for a night of intensity where all eyes are on them if they can still qualify for post season awards.

 

[amitt5504]

So Saturday? Lol

 

[D StaXX]

It’s comical. The vast majority of the league is on vacation and 24 guys are representing the league to corporate sponsors. The game gets worse and the entire weekend gets bigger and more corporatized. I don’t think most people understand the business of sports at all.

Stop making sense.

 

[dacomeup]

the amount of money sports generates is dependant on the audience believing it's not just like any other job.
you don't get stadiums full of people living and dying on the outcome of children's games because they think it's just like "a corporate event"

reminding fans that it is a just millionaires at a corporate event, breaks the illusions that generates the money.

it degrades the fan experience, and hurts the product.


imo it's like the equivalent of telling people mad about some wrestling storyline
"wrestling is fake"

or people charged up about the ending of Sopranos.
"you know its a tv show it's just millionaires playing pretend"

Cool, so what material impact do you expect this degradation of the fan experience to have on the amount of money that the NBA generates then? You’re Osh-splaining and industry to me that I work in .

All Star is a big event because 24 of the best players in the world are there to represent the league to its corporate sponsors. The average fan isn’t even buying extremely overpriced tickets to go to these events. Kids are seeing their favorite players play and will watch regardless. They’ve tinkered with the format of this game and the weekend more broadly to no material and lasting changes — while the media rights are still growing and BRI is increasing. So yea, this is a corporate event that means nothing and the league likely will do nothing substantive to create lasting change here.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I can do math

There will be thousands of more hours of how much it doesn't

I think the playoff product matters way more for the public perception of the NBA

These has been going on for a while, besides a few angry people around All-Star Sunday, I don't see it hurting the product on balance.

I didn't say it mattered more that the playoffs.
I said it matters, it generates tons of negative coverage of the NBA every year.
you got people with big platforms ****ting on it. I think it's more than a few angry people.

now you can say that doesn't matter, but it's not just a few angry people.

Again, I gonna need something more than a guess here.

I don't have access to the NBA's KPI's but I think we can make reasonably informed guesses.
it just feels like your argument is unless i have a spreadsheet with the exact amount of money lost by the league, then I can't criticize the players (who don't have access to that information either)

it feels like a god of the gaps argument if we don't know everysingle variable, we should default to the players anlysis..

They will fine and probably suspend him if he does

really? every year players sit out for precautions, when has it ever been the case that player who feel they can get hurt gut it out?
maybe really famous guys who know people want to see them play one half or something. but I don't think it's true if you think you'll be hurt they'll fine you for not playing.

Maybe the modern NBA just figures that the All-Star game is not worth much effort.

I am fine acknowledging older generation cared more. I just don't knock modern ones for caring less

And wanting to minimize the probability as close to zero as possible

yeah i just think that's unreasonable, they don't take that attitude to any other exhibition basketball game, they don't even take that attitude towards pre season
its only the ASG that players suddenly demand zero risk, in a game that has historically had almost no serious injuries.

imo that indicates it's not injury risk that's fueling this.

Ok, it is fine to want that.

I don't think it will make that much of a difference. That could still result is a horrible product

i mean we saw what the all star game was like its some thing im imagining, it was certainly better than what we go last night.

If they said it was a half-court shooting contest beforehand, I wouldn't care.

But all you seem to be doing here is being hyperbolic to try to counter my example.

Don't think it is an argument I should take seriously.

im using a hyperbolic example to show what I think is a flaw in your argument.
If you wouldn't care if they just took turns taking half court shots, I think you are an extremely a typical fan.

most people like sports for the illusion of stakes. all the stakes in sports are made up,
we care because they care. and if they don't care, for many it ruins the product.

All you are doing here is appealing to tradition

You can't quantify to back up your claim the players should care so much, so you are not coming with "older players did it, so newer players should act the same way"

it just feels like an unreasonable burden of proof.
The NBA has tons of money on the line, they seem to think the all star game matters a lot. they seem to think marketing and press attention matters a lot.
they have more information on it than the players almost certainly. Im supposed to side with the players analysis because why?

- they are citing injury risk in a game where there have been almost no injuries
- they are complaining that the game is meaningless despite trying harder in games that are even more meaningless, pre season, pro ams, open runs ect.

I don't know why im supposed to think there desire to decrease the risk to zero is reasonable.

Ok, Jokic cares about his off-season workouts

And players at play in runs to prepare for the upcoming season do too.

I was more talking about the sample you using clearly having a bias in it.

I still don't see this "you try hard during training, why don't you try during this exhibition" as compelling of an argument

you said they want zero risk of injury. there are safer ways to train, you don't need play in high school gyms at the Drew league.
it shows NBA players are totally capable of modulating their effort to avoid injury.

and I don't see how playing against some random dude with something to prove at a fitness club or in the drew league is going to be more of a risk than NBA players in an nba facility. with nba trainers.

There is nothing to be ashamed about if everyone, or a large group, does it.

And using another one of your arguments, small fines are enough to overcome social media-motivated group social dynamics. Really?

sure but if you start calling out individuals you lose that group camouflage. Suddenly you try a bit harder because you don't want to be tarred as the worst guy, in sociology i think its called "last place aversion" and suddenly everyone's trying harder.
I don't know for sure it will work, but imo they need to try something. my argument is that this is bad and they should do something to fix it.

you seem to think its fine. which is fair enough.

If so, it is not the NBA player's fault for when they were born and what technology was around at the time

By your logic then, if Twitter was around in the 80s and 90s Bird, MJ, and Magic would be doing the same ****. This then undercuts the whole "older players were better at this" argument from before.

im not making some culture war argument about old people vs young people. sure if older players were in this environment I think the same thing will happen. because it's cool not to try.
that's why I think the NBA should do something to change the status quo.

 

[HIM]

I hope the y put the game behind a paywall next year.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Oh please dude

People are just having negative opinions about your negative opinions

Come off it

I don't know what this means, i didn't say anything about that
people are free to have negative opinions about my negative opinions

 

[akajae]

I hope the y put the game behind a paywall next year.

PPV Allstar Game

 

[broncos19dm]

 

[amitt5504]

I hope the y put the game behind a paywall next year.

Streameast

 

[pmatic]

NBA put the ASG behind a paywall when it moved from NBC to TNT 20 years ago.

 

[D StaXX]

Also, y'all realize those Rico Hines and John Lucas runs are done during the summer when the season is over & everyone is healthy and well rested right? No one is playing in those pick up games during the actual season.

 

[danikerhino]

So you should know, my G

Couldn’t even think of the word, but I definitely identified that he was faking it.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Cool, so what material impact do you expect this degradation of the fan experience to have on the amount of money that the NBA generates then? You’re Osh-splaining and industry to me that I work in .

All Star is a big event because 24 of the best players in the world are there to represent the league to its corporate sponsors. The average fan isn’t even buying extremely overpriced tickets to go to these events. Kids are seeing their favorite players play and will watch regardless. They’ve tinkered with the format of this game and the weekend more broadly to no material and lasting changes — while the media rights are still growing and BRI is increasing. So yea, this is a corporate event that means nothing and the league likely will do nothing substantive to create lasting change here.

well i mean i work in film and tv marketing if that matters but irrespective of that,

I think a 3 hour negative commercial on the NBA, that generates a subsequent hours of negative media attention. is bad for the league.

Adam Silver, the guy with with the most information, seems to think that this is bad, and has constantly making efforts to fix it.
Now he could be wrong, but clearly he doesn't take your view.

so if we are appealing to authority, why should I trust that the players analysis is more reasonable than the leagues? league has more information certainly.

especially when the things that the players seems to cite;

Injury risk (almost no one has gotten hurt)
it doesn't matter (they play harder in games that don't matter all the time)

don't really make sense much sense.