- Nov 5, 2012
- 80,694
- 55,639
Never heard of this guy but he’s real good, quality
Offense is the easy thing to point to and worry. Defensively it looks nice now but in the playoffs it’s gonna be an issue
The Official NBA Season Thread: I’m like Jayson Tatum in the Olympics I'm not playing
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by pmatic,
- Start date
Never heard of this guy but he’s real good, quality
Offense is the easy thing to point to and worry. Defensively it looks nice now but in the playoffs it’s gonna be an issue
- Mar 2, 2011
- 30,498
- 5,958
Makes sense. Thanks man.
- Mar 2, 2011
- 30,498
- 5,958
- Nov 5, 2012
- 80,694
- 55,639
Last season KAT makes the all star team after a 3 year absence
They were top 10 offense and even better than middle of pack defense
They played a very good Memphis team tough as hell and ja was struggling real bad
Played Steven Adams off the court and made them switch everything up
Wolves insiders keep bringing up that Murray was also an option and for less assets yet the front office decides to trade the farm for a guy who will be a liability in the playoffs and screw up towns game
What a time
- Aug 20, 2001
- 29,035
- 64,023
MVP
Supporter
- Feb 28, 2008
- 83,040
- 85,631
- Sep 5, 2010
- 92,913
- 129,250
NBA executives poll: Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant and the debates surrounding the Nets’ future (again)
If you took the name away and posted Kyrie Irving’s resume’ on the proverbial NBA job board, there’s not a general manager alive who wouldn’t come running.
He’s a 30-year-old, seven-time All-Star who has averaged 23.1 points and 5.7 assists in his 12 seasons, statistical marks that have been achieved by only 13 other players in the league’s 75-year history. He has a ring (and the unforgettable shot to help win it), is constantly near (or in) the elite 50-40-90 shooting club, and won gold medals in the Olympics and FIBA World Cup to boot. As hoops entertainment value goes, it just doesn’t get much better than the dazzling artistry that is his below-the-rim game.
Yet in the wake of Irving’s recent suspension from the Brooklyn Nets for promoting an antisemitic film on social media, and after all these years in which he missed more Nets games than he played because of injuries, his vaccination stance and “personal reasons,” most of the 11 team executives who spoke with The Athletic on the subject made this much clear: If given the opportunity to trade for him this season or sign him if the Nets waived him or when he becomes a free agent this summer, they’ll be running the other way.
“He’s the opposite of a commodity, which is what you want a player who’s getting paid that much to be,” one general manager said.
“I think Kyrie might not play in the NBA again,” said another general manager.
“It’s gonna be one-year deals from here on out (for Irving),” a front office executive said.
“With Nike pulling away, that makes it even tougher for him,” one owner said of the shoe company’s decision to suspend its longstanding relationship with Irving.
So with Irving’s Nets career widely expected to end this summer, at the latest, will some executives be so tantalized by his talent that he gets another chance elsewhere? And with all the tumult that came with Kevin Durant’s offseason trade request and Irving’s latest off-court controversy, what does it all mean for this Nets future that is uncertain yet again?
As it stands, the Nets (4-6) are waiting to see if Irving will fulfill the six action items required by the organization for his return. This comes after they already fired Steve Nash as coach just seven games in last week, and are reportedly expected to hire suspended Boston Celtics coach Ime Udoka (who is a former Nets assistant) as his replacement.
In an attempt to get a better sense of how the rest of the league views the Nets’ sensitive situation, I spoke with five front office heads and six other executives about the latest daunting challenge that faces Nets ownership and management. Of those 11, only one expressed a possible interest in adding Irving at some point down the line. Durant, as evidenced below, is a whole different matter entirely when it comes to league-wide interest.
The executives, who included representatives from both conferences, were granted anonymity in name and title because they’re not permitted to speak about other teams or players publicly. They are all referred to as front office executives below.
The Kyrie future
First things first, there’s the basic question: Is there any chance that all this self-inflicted drama means he’ll be forced into early retirement?
For the most part, the executives believe that Irving’s career will continue in some form.
Front office executive No. 1
“No (his career isn’t nearing an end). It’s just like (Latrell Sprewell) back in the day. You have to put everything in historical context. No matter how egregious something is, everybody thinks there’s a Jesus out there that can save them.” (After choking Golden State coach P.J. Carlesimo in an early December practice in 1997, Sprewell was suspended for one year by the NBA. The Warriors subsequently traded him to the Knicks, who re-signed him in November 1999).
Front office executive No. 2
“He will not be on (our team), but someone will (want him). They always do for his talent.”
From there, of course, it becomes a question of payment amount and length of the terms. To that end, a recent history reminder is in order here.
When Irving strongly considered opting out of the final season of his deal worth $37 million in late June, there were rumblings that he might be willing to sign a taxpayer midlevel deal with the Lakers ($6.4 million) as a way of getting where he reportedly wanted to go. Yet as we reported in early October and a sentiment that still exists, sources say the Lakers have significant concerns about the prospect of adding Irving at any price and have not been focused on that scenario all season long.
It’s quite clear that Laker Land is a highly unlikely, if not impossible, landing spot.
Yet as we discussed, the prospect of him having to eventually take a significant pay cut somewhere remains very real.
Front office executive No. 3
“The problem you have is, ‘Is he going to be able to play?’ It doesn’t matter why you can’t play. It doesn’t matter if it’s because of COVID or a league suspension, or a team suspension. In order to be a good player, you have to play. And this is even before dealing with the stuff that the Nets were dealing with before COVID, where he just didn’t feel like playing basketball half the time.
“I think he’s a really challenging guy. Leaving aside whether he’s a good human, a bad human, whether he’s using his platform correctly or anything else, and even if I have zero morals and I’m just making a basketball evaluation, you need him to play. It doesn’t matter why someone can’t play, but how do you feel good that he’s gonna be available?
“He doesn’t play basketball, and that’s for a guy who’s now probably the best on the court he’s ever been. But he’s getting to an age where, presumably, injuries are gonna get more frequent and everything else. This is the healthy version of him, too. So I think it’s really challenging. I guess there’s some chance he plays for the small midlevel or whatever, so maybe a team would do it. I just think it’s really challenging.
“A lot of it is going to (be determined by) what the Nets do. If the Nets bring him back and let him play, and he manages to skate through the year, then he’s a whole lot (easier to sign). (But) who’s gonna give him the first chance? No one wants to be the one who gives him the first chance. … I mean, he’s clearly an NBA player, and he’s probably one of the top 10 guys in the league. But he’s an extraordinarily high-risk person.”
Front office executive No. 4
“It’s gonna take a special organization and coach to want to deal with the guy. Miami comes to mind, but Miami might say, ‘We’re good; we don’t want to deal with it.’ … But if you don’t have the reputation with one of your players or the coach or the front office guy, where you’re one of the larger figures in the league, I just don’t know why you take that on because he seems pretty hard to manage.
“You don’t know when he’ll be available. He already wasn’t that durable coming into it, but now he’s sitting out for vaccinations, he’s making these comments. So he’s the opposite of a commodity, man, which is what you want a player who’s getting paid that much to be — a trustworthy (person where) you know exactly what you’re gonna get. And even if you know they have an injury profile where they might miss a certain number of games, you can bake that into the equation. With him, it’s just so hard to discern when he’s going to be available and what makes him tick.”
Front office executive No. 5
“There’s always going to be a team that’s desperate enough to sell their soul for the guy on a short-term deal, thinking they have the right leadership in place to handle him. I think whatever happens with him, it’s gonna be one-year deals from here on out. I don’t think anybody gives him a long-term deal. You just can’t. … How do you justify giving him a long-term deal now with a history that he never plays a full season? You just can’t trust that he’s gonna do the right thing.”
Front office executive No. 6
“I don’t know (what happens with Irving), but it’s really bad where he stands with things and some of the stuff he’s done. It’s very unfortunate, but I do think there’s a team or two that would take him. I don’t think this is (career-ending). I don’t. I mean, certainly, it’s career hampering. It’s detrimental to his career. It’s going to reduce his market. And for every player, that matters at some point. As you age, it gets harder. But I do think there’s one or two teams that would take him, or maybe even a couple more (than that).”
The Durant Dilemma
Front office executive No. 1
“At what point is Durant gonna say, ‘F— it. Get me out of here’?”
Again.
Remember, it has been fewer than three months since Durant issued his them-or-me ultimatum: He either wanted a trade, he told owner Joe Tsai, or to see general manager Sean Marks and Nash fired. And if he were dealt, he made clear, his strong preferences were Phoenix and Miami.
Yet regardless of who the next coach turns out to be, there is no shortage of executives who believe this group is already unofficially doomed in terms of title contention. Too much chaos, too little chemistry, and the kind of bloated payroll that many believe requires another roster overhaul even if Durant doesn’t ask for a trade again.
Durant, who is as elite as ever so far, is in the first year of his four-year extension and clearly worth every penny (a combined $197 million). The same can’t be said for Ben Simmons, who struggled in his first six games with the Nets and has missed the last four with knee soreness. The 26-year-old is signed through the 2024-25 season and is owed a combined $113 million.
So, I asked the execs, will the Nets brass keep forging ahead to this title-contending push that looks so implausible at the moment or start another rebuild by trading Durant?
Front office executive No. 4
“Just looking at Sean and his history, where he’s come from and what he’s done in Brooklyn, and then knowing that you have these (high-caliber guys) in this draft, I don’t see how he doesn’t (tear it down). Maybe it’s pressure from ownership, and they want to win, or whatever — who knows? But left to his own devices, I think it’d only be natural to expect that they move Durant.”
A quick bit of necessary context: While the Nets have a first-round pick for this year’s draft, Brooklyn has a pick swap with Houston that means the Rockets will receive the better of the two teams’ picks. The Nets also have a pick swap with Philadelphia, meaning their pick would improve if the 76ers finish the regular season with a worse record.
So while there’s no path with the Nets pick to landing top prospect Victor Wembanyama, there is a chance (however small) that they could land the No. 2 pick and have the chance to take Scoot Henderson. As our Sam Vecenie made clear recently, the top of this draft is considered very strong.
As a related side note, there’s this bit of remarkable Nets history: Their last lottery selection was Derrick Favors at third overall in 2010 — back when the franchise was still in New Jersey.
Front office executive No. 7
“If I’m the Nets, I’m looking to get a young star and a bunch of picks to retool the team. They’ve done it in the past already, and they can do it again. It’s a similar spot (leverage-wise to the summer, when the offers were known to be underwhelming for a star of his caliber). But before the season starts, everybody feels comfortable and is optimistic about their team. Now some teams are seeing cracks in their own foundation, and you start thinking, ‘Someone like Kevin Durant will completely change our trajectory.’”
New Orleans is often brought up in league circles as an intriguing prospect for a Durant deal with Brooklyn, what with Zion Williamson, Brandon Ingram and all those surplus draft picks down on the Bayou. But as one executive surmised, Durant’s preferences would likely come into play again if the decision were made to move him.
Front office executive No. 6
“I’m assuming there’s some sort of agreement with Kevin. Like, ‘Look, if you want to move, we’ll move you. And we’re not going to move you to New Orleans and we’re not going to move you to Sacramento and we’re not going to move you to Indiana.’ So if the best Brooklyn can do is the Lakers, then if I was the Lakers, that’s what I’d be waiting on.”
Front office executive No. 8
“I don’t see them giving up (Durant) now. Not yet, anyway. They’ve gone this far. They’re going to want to see where it goes, especially with a new coach coming in.”
But it all starts with Irving. Either he fulfills the Nets’ demands and spends the rest of the season reminding the league’s talent evaluators why he’s worth the substantial risk, or continues this bizarre backward slide in a once-storied career.
Front office executive No. 5
“This (Irving suspension) is a step towards getting rid of him, whether it’s flat-out cutting him or trying to trade him. And I just can’t imagine KD wanting to be there, not because of his relationship with Kyrie but because the level of talent that’s going to be on that roster at this point in his career (will be subpar). I don’t see him saying, ‘Yeah, let me stick it out here and just be the eighth seed in the East for the next three years.’ I would think he would probably want to move on at that point.”
If you took the name away and posted Kyrie Irving’s resume’ on the proverbial NBA job board, there’s not a general manager alive who wouldn’t come running.
He’s a 30-year-old, seven-time All-Star who has averaged 23.1 points and 5.7 assists in his 12 seasons, statistical marks that have been achieved by only 13 other players in the league’s 75-year history. He has a ring (and the unforgettable shot to help win it), is constantly near (or in) the elite 50-40-90 shooting club, and won gold medals in the Olympics and FIBA World Cup to boot. As hoops entertainment value goes, it just doesn’t get much better than the dazzling artistry that is his below-the-rim game.
Yet in the wake of Irving’s recent suspension from the Brooklyn Nets for promoting an antisemitic film on social media, and after all these years in which he missed more Nets games than he played because of injuries, his vaccination stance and “personal reasons,” most of the 11 team executives who spoke with The Athletic on the subject made this much clear: If given the opportunity to trade for him this season or sign him if the Nets waived him or when he becomes a free agent this summer, they’ll be running the other way.
“He’s the opposite of a commodity, which is what you want a player who’s getting paid that much to be,” one general manager said.
“I think Kyrie might not play in the NBA again,” said another general manager.
“It’s gonna be one-year deals from here on out (for Irving),” a front office executive said.
“With Nike pulling away, that makes it even tougher for him,” one owner said of the shoe company’s decision to suspend its longstanding relationship with Irving.
So with Irving’s Nets career widely expected to end this summer, at the latest, will some executives be so tantalized by his talent that he gets another chance elsewhere? And with all the tumult that came with Kevin Durant’s offseason trade request and Irving’s latest off-court controversy, what does it all mean for this Nets future that is uncertain yet again?
As it stands, the Nets (4-6) are waiting to see if Irving will fulfill the six action items required by the organization for his return. This comes after they already fired Steve Nash as coach just seven games in last week, and are reportedly expected to hire suspended Boston Celtics coach Ime Udoka (who is a former Nets assistant) as his replacement.
In an attempt to get a better sense of how the rest of the league views the Nets’ sensitive situation, I spoke with five front office heads and six other executives about the latest daunting challenge that faces Nets ownership and management. Of those 11, only one expressed a possible interest in adding Irving at some point down the line. Durant, as evidenced below, is a whole different matter entirely when it comes to league-wide interest.
The executives, who included representatives from both conferences, were granted anonymity in name and title because they’re not permitted to speak about other teams or players publicly. They are all referred to as front office executives below.
The Kyrie future
First things first, there’s the basic question: Is there any chance that all this self-inflicted drama means he’ll be forced into early retirement?
For the most part, the executives believe that Irving’s career will continue in some form.
Front office executive No. 1
“No (his career isn’t nearing an end). It’s just like (Latrell Sprewell) back in the day. You have to put everything in historical context. No matter how egregious something is, everybody thinks there’s a Jesus out there that can save them.” (After choking Golden State coach P.J. Carlesimo in an early December practice in 1997, Sprewell was suspended for one year by the NBA. The Warriors subsequently traded him to the Knicks, who re-signed him in November 1999).
Front office executive No. 2
“He will not be on (our team), but someone will (want him). They always do for his talent.”
From there, of course, it becomes a question of payment amount and length of the terms. To that end, a recent history reminder is in order here.
When Irving strongly considered opting out of the final season of his deal worth $37 million in late June, there were rumblings that he might be willing to sign a taxpayer midlevel deal with the Lakers ($6.4 million) as a way of getting where he reportedly wanted to go. Yet as we reported in early October and a sentiment that still exists, sources say the Lakers have significant concerns about the prospect of adding Irving at any price and have not been focused on that scenario all season long.
It’s quite clear that Laker Land is a highly unlikely, if not impossible, landing spot.
Yet as we discussed, the prospect of him having to eventually take a significant pay cut somewhere remains very real.
Front office executive No. 3
“The problem you have is, ‘Is he going to be able to play?’ It doesn’t matter why you can’t play. It doesn’t matter if it’s because of COVID or a league suspension, or a team suspension. In order to be a good player, you have to play. And this is even before dealing with the stuff that the Nets were dealing with before COVID, where he just didn’t feel like playing basketball half the time.
“I think he’s a really challenging guy. Leaving aside whether he’s a good human, a bad human, whether he’s using his platform correctly or anything else, and even if I have zero morals and I’m just making a basketball evaluation, you need him to play. It doesn’t matter why someone can’t play, but how do you feel good that he’s gonna be available?
“He doesn’t play basketball, and that’s for a guy who’s now probably the best on the court he’s ever been. But he’s getting to an age where, presumably, injuries are gonna get more frequent and everything else. This is the healthy version of him, too. So I think it’s really challenging. I guess there’s some chance he plays for the small midlevel or whatever, so maybe a team would do it. I just think it’s really challenging.
“A lot of it is going to (be determined by) what the Nets do. If the Nets bring him back and let him play, and he manages to skate through the year, then he’s a whole lot (easier to sign). (But) who’s gonna give him the first chance? No one wants to be the one who gives him the first chance. … I mean, he’s clearly an NBA player, and he’s probably one of the top 10 guys in the league. But he’s an extraordinarily high-risk person.”
Front office executive No. 4
“It’s gonna take a special organization and coach to want to deal with the guy. Miami comes to mind, but Miami might say, ‘We’re good; we don’t want to deal with it.’ … But if you don’t have the reputation with one of your players or the coach or the front office guy, where you’re one of the larger figures in the league, I just don’t know why you take that on because he seems pretty hard to manage.
“You don’t know when he’ll be available. He already wasn’t that durable coming into it, but now he’s sitting out for vaccinations, he’s making these comments. So he’s the opposite of a commodity, man, which is what you want a player who’s getting paid that much to be — a trustworthy (person where) you know exactly what you’re gonna get. And even if you know they have an injury profile where they might miss a certain number of games, you can bake that into the equation. With him, it’s just so hard to discern when he’s going to be available and what makes him tick.”
Front office executive No. 5
“There’s always going to be a team that’s desperate enough to sell their soul for the guy on a short-term deal, thinking they have the right leadership in place to handle him. I think whatever happens with him, it’s gonna be one-year deals from here on out. I don’t think anybody gives him a long-term deal. You just can’t. … How do you justify giving him a long-term deal now with a history that he never plays a full season? You just can’t trust that he’s gonna do the right thing.”
Front office executive No. 6
“I don’t know (what happens with Irving), but it’s really bad where he stands with things and some of the stuff he’s done. It’s very unfortunate, but I do think there’s a team or two that would take him. I don’t think this is (career-ending). I don’t. I mean, certainly, it’s career hampering. It’s detrimental to his career. It’s going to reduce his market. And for every player, that matters at some point. As you age, it gets harder. But I do think there’s one or two teams that would take him, or maybe even a couple more (than that).”
The Durant Dilemma
Front office executive No. 1
“At what point is Durant gonna say, ‘F— it. Get me out of here’?”
Again.
Remember, it has been fewer than three months since Durant issued his them-or-me ultimatum: He either wanted a trade, he told owner Joe Tsai, or to see general manager Sean Marks and Nash fired. And if he were dealt, he made clear, his strong preferences were Phoenix and Miami.
Yet regardless of who the next coach turns out to be, there is no shortage of executives who believe this group is already unofficially doomed in terms of title contention. Too much chaos, too little chemistry, and the kind of bloated payroll that many believe requires another roster overhaul even if Durant doesn’t ask for a trade again.
Durant, who is as elite as ever so far, is in the first year of his four-year extension and clearly worth every penny (a combined $197 million). The same can’t be said for Ben Simmons, who struggled in his first six games with the Nets and has missed the last four with knee soreness. The 26-year-old is signed through the 2024-25 season and is owed a combined $113 million.
So, I asked the execs, will the Nets brass keep forging ahead to this title-contending push that looks so implausible at the moment or start another rebuild by trading Durant?
Front office executive No. 4
“Just looking at Sean and his history, where he’s come from and what he’s done in Brooklyn, and then knowing that you have these (high-caliber guys) in this draft, I don’t see how he doesn’t (tear it down). Maybe it’s pressure from ownership, and they want to win, or whatever — who knows? But left to his own devices, I think it’d only be natural to expect that they move Durant.”
A quick bit of necessary context: While the Nets have a first-round pick for this year’s draft, Brooklyn has a pick swap with Houston that means the Rockets will receive the better of the two teams’ picks. The Nets also have a pick swap with Philadelphia, meaning their pick would improve if the 76ers finish the regular season with a worse record.
So while there’s no path with the Nets pick to landing top prospect Victor Wembanyama, there is a chance (however small) that they could land the No. 2 pick and have the chance to take Scoot Henderson. As our Sam Vecenie made clear recently, the top of this draft is considered very strong.
As a related side note, there’s this bit of remarkable Nets history: Their last lottery selection was Derrick Favors at third overall in 2010 — back when the franchise was still in New Jersey.
Front office executive No. 7
“If I’m the Nets, I’m looking to get a young star and a bunch of picks to retool the team. They’ve done it in the past already, and they can do it again. It’s a similar spot (leverage-wise to the summer, when the offers were known to be underwhelming for a star of his caliber). But before the season starts, everybody feels comfortable and is optimistic about their team. Now some teams are seeing cracks in their own foundation, and you start thinking, ‘Someone like Kevin Durant will completely change our trajectory.’”
New Orleans is often brought up in league circles as an intriguing prospect for a Durant deal with Brooklyn, what with Zion Williamson, Brandon Ingram and all those surplus draft picks down on the Bayou. But as one executive surmised, Durant’s preferences would likely come into play again if the decision were made to move him.
Front office executive No. 6
“I’m assuming there’s some sort of agreement with Kevin. Like, ‘Look, if you want to move, we’ll move you. And we’re not going to move you to New Orleans and we’re not going to move you to Sacramento and we’re not going to move you to Indiana.’ So if the best Brooklyn can do is the Lakers, then if I was the Lakers, that’s what I’d be waiting on.”
Front office executive No. 8
“I don’t see them giving up (Durant) now. Not yet, anyway. They’ve gone this far. They’re going to want to see where it goes, especially with a new coach coming in.”
But it all starts with Irving. Either he fulfills the Nets’ demands and spends the rest of the season reminding the league’s talent evaluators why he’s worth the substantial risk, or continues this bizarre backward slide in a once-storied career.
Front office executive No. 5
“This (Irving suspension) is a step towards getting rid of him, whether it’s flat-out cutting him or trying to trade him. And I just can’t imagine KD wanting to be there, not because of his relationship with Kyrie but because the level of talent that’s going to be on that roster at this point in his career (will be subpar). I don’t see him saying, ‘Yeah, let me stick it out here and just be the eighth seed in the East for the next three years.’ I would think he would probably want to move on at that point.”
- Sep 18, 2003
- 61,873
- 134,135
A couple of mental lapses away from advancing to the second round and they made that move.
Meanwhile vando taking and making 3s. Out here making plays too. Criminal what they are doing to ant man
MVP
Supporter
- Feb 28, 2008
- 83,040
- 85,631
KD for AD makes sense
- Sep 18, 2003
- 61,873
- 134,135
How does that help the nets?
- Feb 5, 2013
- 39,385
- 40,877
they were saying the same thing about rust just a few weeks ago
i get it, different circusmtances
but its def been a wild season already
i really expect kd to ask to be traded again, or some other stars
#freeSGA
#freeAnt
i get it, different circusmtances
but its def been a wild season already
i really expect kd to ask to be traded again, or some other stars
#freeSGA
#freeAnt
- Sep 18, 2003
- 61,873
- 134,135
IT BE YOUR OWN MANS
MVP
Supporter
- Feb 28, 2008
- 83,040
- 85,631
Get some future assets if the teardown is real. They blew it with Myrie already.
- Sep 5, 2010
- 92,913
- 129,250
Lakers gonna give up 140 points every night without AD.
- Feb 5, 2013
- 39,385
- 40,877
- Sep 18, 2003
- 61,873
- 134,135
Get some future assets if the teardown is real. They blew it with Myrie already.
I’d try to get a lot younger than AD, personally. I don’t know what’s out there though.
- Nov 7, 2019
- 7,533
- 23,680
Please don't tell me aubrey graham said that?
- Dec 27, 2012
- 73,568
- 100,581
Julius Randle is 28
- Sep 18, 2003
- 61,873
- 134,135
- Mar 2, 2011
- 30,498
- 5,958
Can he even vote? Is he an American citizen? Lol honestly asking.
darthska
Staff member
- Apr 30, 2004
- 47,021
- 31,696
You've switched the conversation to focusing on when the actual album came out, like Lebron misspoke on an album release. He's selling a memory that didn't happen. It's like if I were to tell someone someone that I remember how traumatic it was hearing that Tupac had been shot and then the next day 9/11 happened. If I were trying to tell someone I remember those 2 back-to-back days like it was just last week, I'd be trying to sell a memory that flat out didn't happen.So it’s not feasible he misspoke and was a year off on the release date of a 12 year old album?
It’s not possible that he was just a few months off?. I can’t tell you the EXACT release date of any album but I can tell you a general time period for when it came out.
But I already covered this:
-foe
- Sep 5, 2010
- 92,913
- 129,250
Memphis and New Orleans should go for KD.
MIKE LOWERY
formerly chuck finster
- Mar 1, 2007
- 7,606
- 4,759
Only place I can see AD going is back home to CHI.
