The Official NBA Season Thread: Las Vegas Summer League | USA VS South Sudan at 3 ET on Fox

tupac003 said:
lawdog1 lawdog1 would the Clippers start him at PG?

One rumor is he does want to start and I can't see that with the Clippers.

But I also can't see that with the Bulls or the Heat...
Click to expand...
He’s definitely starting since they traded Wall & Jackson,unless they go w/Bones
 


Hollinger’s NBA buyout market board: Westbrook, Wall and others who might be available

Are you strung out from that crazy NBA trade deadline? Or are you ready for more? Because even though the trades are over, the action doesn’t totally stop.

Now that we’ve got the trade deadline out of the way, we have just one more transactional hurdle left before we can return our focus on actual basketball: the buyout market. Unlike the trade deadline, there is no technical end date for this, although there is a soft deadline of March 1. That’s the last date a player can be waived and still be playoff-eligible; while a player can be signed by a new team any time after that date, if he was waived after March 1, he’s not playoff-eligible with a new team.

Because of all the trading, the buyout market should also be frothy. Multiple contenders left themselves with open roster spots as a result of deadline trades, and several players were moved to places where the fit seems, at best, uncomfortable.

Alas, the issue with buyout season is the same as it ever was: If these guys were really good, they’d have already been acquired by a team that wanted them. It’s a bit like sifting through the discount bin at Target. But every so often, you find a keeper.

First of all, let’s look at a couple guys who won’t be on the buyout market: Doug McDermott, Rudy Gay, Evan Fournier and Khem Birch are names that might get brought up, but each has fairly sizable guaranteed money coming next season that would seem to make a buyout improbable. Historically, nearly all buyouts are players in the last guaranteed season of their deal.

With that out of the way, let’s look at my 2023 buyout tiers:

Tier I: Guys who might actually make a difference

This top tier on Thursday morning featured Jae Crowder, Josh Richardson and Eric Gordon. Oh well. Here’s what it looks like now, with recently exiled Los Angeles guards featuring prominently:

1. Russell Westbrook, PG, Utah: Westbrook could still help in the right situation, if a team has enough shooting and is starved enough for shot creation. I don’t think the Clippers or Bulls are that team, and I’m nervous about how that might go for either of them. Russ is gonna Russ, which means a high usage rate and 50-ish percent true shooting. But there are some playoff-contending teams on which he’d either be an upgrade on what’s already there or fill a glaring pit of a hole.

2. Reggie Jackson, PG, Charlotte: Jackson turns 33 in April, and his shooting has gone sideways the past two seasons. Asking him to be a volume shot creator probably will result in disappointment, but he’s still an upgrade on several of the backup point guards getting minutes around the league. Milwaukee is a rumored hot spot for him.

3. John Wall, PG, Houston: Wall still shows flashes of the player he used to be, but at 32 years old and with a 30.3 percent mark from 3, he’s tough to slot in as a secondary player. Still, his numbers this season are well above replacement level — and on a per-possession basis, not all that far off what he did in his last season in Washington. There are several guard situations around the league that he’d clearly improve.

4. Patrick Beverley, SG, Orlando: Beverley is 34, and his numbers have cratered across the board this season, especially as a shooter, but he can still defend on the perimeter. As with Westbrook above, his value is situational and perhaps limited to teams below the championship rung, but there are playoff aspirants he could help for 10-15 minutes a night with his ball pressure.

5. Dario Šarić, PF, Oklahoma City: The Homie looked washed in November but played some of his best basketball in January, to the point that I was mildly surprised Phoenix included him in a salary dump. It’s not clear if the Thunder will waive him or keep him; they love playing with small-ball fives, and Šarić could fit nicely in that structure.

6. Danny Green, SG, Houston: Memphis moved on from Green when the chance came to upgrade to Luke Kennard, but he still could have value for a contending team looking for some 3-and-D minutes on the wing. One wonders if his former employers in Philly or L.A. would have interest in a reunion.

Tier II : Improbable, but in demand

7. Kelly Oubre, SF, Charlotte: Oubre is still out with a torn ligament in his left hand, but the athletic wing would rocket to the top of this list if the Hornets gave him his wings. That seems unlikely, as his Bird rights are likely much more valuable than whatever they could save in a buyout.

8. Seth Curry, SG, Brooklyn: This one seems more speculative, but one way for the Nets to further slice into their luxury-tax bill would be to reach a buyout agreement with Curry, who has an expiring contract. Curry is small, 32 and hasn’t had a great year, but as a 43 percent career 3-point shooter, he’d have interest from most contenders if he hit the market.

9. Kevin Love, PF, Cleveland: Love makes $29 million and is racking up DNPs, but I can’t see a good reason to part with the 34-year-old veteran unless Love wanted to push his way to a new situation.

10. Cory Joseph, PG, Detroit: Joseph is 31, and his play has tailed off this year, but teams looking for a reliable third point guard for the playoff run could do a lot worse if he and the Pistons decide to part ways.

11. Goran Dragić, Chicago: This one seems unlikely, but if the Bulls really do end up with Westbrook, then Dragić would seemingly be the odd man out. Dragić has not set the world afire (10.7 PER, 51.6 percent true shooting), but one wonders if the southpaw might have eyes for a reunion in Miami if that were the case.

12. Thaddeus Young, C, Toronto: Young has only $1 million guaranteed next year, has seen his role shrink in Toronto and may get squeezed even further now that the Raptors acquired Jakob Poeltl and have returned Precious Achiuwa to the lineup. There doesn’t seem to be a huge motivation for the Raptors to act here, however, so I suspect this one won’t be resolved until summer.

13. Kendrick Nunn, PG, Washington: It seemed possible Nunn might be a short-timer when Washington acquired him in the Rui Hachimura trade, but he’s off to a solid start in his first seven games, and the Wizards are lasered in on their annual chase for the No. 8 seed.

14. DeAndre Jordan, C, Denver: It’s not clear whether Jordan would be a buyout candidate for the tax-dwelling Nuggets now that they’ve acquired Thomas Bryant; Denver could use some wiggle room to get another guard or two, but Jordan has been a quasi-rotation player all season.

Tier III: Guys You’ve Heard Of

15. Derrick Rose, SG, New York: Rose is out of the Knicks’ rotation and has a $15.5 million team option for next season that seems highly unlikely to be exercised. He hasn’t played well in his 338 minutes but was a productive scorer as recently as last season. He might be worth a shot if a team needs bench scoring.

16. Will Barton, SG, Washington: Well, it looks like the Nuggets cashed in their Barton stock at the right time. The 32-year-old has struggled in D.C., shooting just 39.5 percent inside the arc in 40 games and gradually falling out of the mix — he’s only played more than 10 minutes in a game three times since Christmas. As with Rose above, he could be the answer for a team needing another shot creator, especially since he’s more credible as a wing defender than Rose.

17. Terrence Ross, SG, Orlando: Ross is 32, has an expiring contract and doesn’t really fit on a rebuilding Orlando team. He’s been much less shot-happy this season and is a 36.2 percent career 3-point shooter, but his defense was suspect even at the best of times, and it’s not clear whether he’s still good enough to crack a playoff team’s top dozen players.

Tier IV: Some other possibilities

18. Nerlens Noel, C, Detroit: Between the acquisition of James Wiseman and the fact Noel already was marooned at the end of the Pistons bench, it’s hard to see scenarios in which he’s with Detroit beyond this season. If the Pistons gave him his wings, another team in need of a shot blocker might be ready to step in.

19. Justin Holiday, SF, Houston: A steady 3-and-D wing in years past, Holiday seemed to lose some athletic juice over the past two seasons — as most easily seen in his shocking 3.0 percent rebound rate this season. He fell out of Atlanta’s rotation like a rock dropped from a plane, playing a grand total of 10 minutes since New Year’s Day. However, he can still shoot it (36.4 percent career from 3), never gets hurt and is a plus locker room guy, so perhaps a contender needing a fifth wing will take a look.

20. Dewayne Dedmon, C, San Antonio (waived): Dedmon had a rough year in Miami, but he still rebounds at a high rate and can hit an occasional 3-pointer. Third centers are always in demand come playoff time, so Dedmon might get a look from some contenders.

21. Serge Ibaka, C, Indiana (waived): Back issues have robbed Ibaka of much of the athleticism that made him so impactful as a younger player, which is why he never got in the mix in Milwaukee. As with Dedmon above, a playoff team in need of a third center could still have interest.

22. Terry Taylor, positionless, Indiana (waived): With a non-guaranteed season left on his deal at $1.8 million, Taylor would be an interesting waiver claim for a rebuilding team. More likely, he’d be a good pickup for a team with an open two-way spot. Taylor is a funky player — a 6-5 non-shooter best-described as a “power guard” — but he’s really effective around the basket and could have some Gary Payton II in him in the right system.

23. Kevin Knox, SF, Portland: It’s not clear what the Blazers’ plans are for Knox, but the 23-year-old combo forward showed some flashes in Detroit this year (61.2 percent true shooting, moments of defensive awareness) and would be an interesting reclamation project for a rebuilding team if waived.

24. Boban Marjanović, C, Houston (waived): Marjanović is one of the league’s most popular players, and reuniting him with Tobias Harris in Philly should be a national priority for Congress. That seems unlikely, but Houston is rumored to be interested in re-signing Marjanović after it completes its other trade deadline business.

Tier V: Scraping the barrel

25. Bryn Forbes, SG, Minnesota (waived): An undersized shooting guard with a career 41 percent mark from 3, Forbes hasn’t quite shaken off the Spurs offense, taking a frustratingly high proportion of his shots inside the arc where he isn’t nearly as effective. He’s also very limited off the dribble, capping his effectiveness even in places like Denver and Minnesota that theoretically could have used a player like him.

26. Goga Bitadze, C, Indiana (waived): I was a Goga believer in his draft year, but the stretch big possibilities he showed as a prospect have yet to come to fruition (25.6 percent career from 3), and he might be the worst screener on the planet. I’d love to see a rebuilding team with available center minutes take a chance on him.

27. James Johnson, PF, Indiana (waived): I wouldn’t be shocked to see Johnson back in Indy once the dust clears; he filled the veteran-leader-who-doesn’t-play role for the Pacers, but there are only a few places where this type of work is available.

28. Juan Toscano-Anderson, PF, Utah: A low-skill, high-energy undersized big who never fit with the Lakers, Toscano-Anderson would likely do best in an up-tempo system that won’t put a laser beam on his half-court game.

29. Frank Kaminsky, C, Houston: Frank The Tank is caught between the four and five positions and isn’t quite enough of a 3-point threat to really scare opposing defenses, but he remains unusually adept at midrange bank shots and runners for a big man.

30. Alex Len, C, Sacramento: Stuck at the end of the Kings bench and on an expiring deal, Len would seem to be a prime candidate to be let go if Sacramento tries to add another wing in the buyout market.

31. Ryan Arcidiacono, PG, Portland: Give yourself bonus points if you remembered he was still in the league. Sadly, he can’t be part of the Villanova reunion taking place in New York; the Knicks are forbidden from reacquiring him. Anybody know what Randy Foye is up to?

32. Svi Mykhailiuk, SG, Charlotte: Svi is a big wing who can shoot but has struggled to gain traction the last few seasons, even flaming out on a Toronto team desperate for bench shooting. It’s not clear what the Hornets’ plans are for him, but he might hang on as a 15th man someplace else if released.
 
tupac003 said:
lawdog1 lawdog1 would the Clippers start him at PG?

One rumor is he does want to start and I can't see that with the Clippers.

But I also can't see that with the Bulls or the Heat...
Click to expand...
With Reggie gone, maybe they would take a shot at starting Russ. Mann produces at roughly the same level whether he starts or comes off the bench, so I don't think the team would have problem with moving him back to the second unit if they think the way to get the best out of Russell is starting him. But I think him coming off the bench is more likely, if he signs with the Clippers.
 




Are you strung out from that crazy NBA trade deadline? Or are you ready for more? Because even though the trades are over, the action doesn’t totally stop.

Now that we’ve got the trade deadline out of the way, we have just one more transactional hurdle left before we can return our focus on actual basketball: the buyout market. Unlike the trade deadline, there is no technical end date for this, although there is a soft deadline of March 1. That’s the last date a player can be waived and still be playoff-eligible; while a player can be signed by a new team any time after that date, if he was waived after March 1, he’s not playoff-eligible with a new team.

ADVERTISEMENT


Because of all the trading, the buyout market should also be frothy. Multiple contenders left themselves with open roster spots as a result of deadline trades, and several players were moved to places where the fit seems, at best, uncomfortable.

Alas, the issue with buyout season is the same as it ever was: If these guys were really good, they’d have already been acquired by a team that wanted them. It’s a bit like sifting through the discount bin at Target. But every so often, you find a keeper.

First of all, let’s look at a couple guys who won’t be on the buyout market: Doug McDermott, Rudy Gay, Evan Fournier and Khem Birch are names that might get brought up, but each has fairly sizable guaranteed money coming next season that would seem to make a buyout improbable. Historically, nearly all buyouts are players in the last guaranteed season of their deal.

With that out of the way, let’s look at my 2023 buyout tiers:

Tier I: Guys who might actually make a difference
This top tier on Thursday morning featured Jae Crowder, Josh Richardson and Eric Gordon. Oh well. Here’s what it looks like now, with recently exiled Los Angeles guards featuring prominently:

1. Russell Westbrook, PG, Utah: Westbrook could still help in the right situation, if a team has enough shooting and is starved enough for shot creation. I don’t think the Clippers or Bulls are that team, and I’m nervous about how that might go for either of them. Russ is gonna Russ, which means a high usage rate and 50-ish percent true shooting. But there are some playoff-contending teams on which he’d either be an upgrade on what’s already there or fill a glaring pit of a hole.

go-deeper
GO DEEPER

A Lakers dream turned to nightmare: Inside the 'toxic' end of the Russell Westbrook era

2. Reggie Jackson, PG, Charlotte: Jackson turns 33 in April, and his shooting has gone sideways the past two seasons. Asking him to be a volume shot creator probably will result in disappointment, but he’s still an upgrade on several of the backup point guards getting minutes around the league. Milwaukee is a rumored hot spot for him.

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3. John Wall, PG, Houston: Wall still shows flashes of the player he used to be, but at 32 years old and with a 30.3 percent mark from 3, he’s tough to slot in as a secondary player. Still, his numbers this season are well above replacement level — and on a per-possession basis, not all that far off what he did in his last season in Washington. There are several guard situations around the league that he’d clearly improve.

4. Patrick Beverley, SG, Orlando: Beverley is 34, and his numbers have cratered across the board this season, especially as a shooter, but he can still defend on the perimeter. As with Westbrook above, his value is situational and perhaps limited to teams below the championship rung, but there are playoff aspirants he could help for 10-15 minutes a night with his ball pressure.

5. Dario Šarić, PF, Oklahoma City: The Homie looked washed in November but played some of his best basketball in January, to the point that I was mildly surprised Phoenix included him in a salary dump. It’s not clear if the Thunder will waive him or keep him; they love playing with small-ball fives, and Šarić could fit nicely in that structure.

6. Danny Green, SG, Houston: Memphis moved on from Green when the chance came to upgrade to Luke Kennard, but he still could have value for a contending team looking for some 3-and-D minutes on the wing. One wonders if his former employers in Philly or L.A. would have interest in a reunion.

Tier II : Improbable, but in demand
7. Kelly Oubre, SF, Charlotte: Oubre is still out with a torn ligament in his left hand, but the athletic wing would rocket to the top of this list if the Hornets gave him his wings. That seems unlikely, as his Bird rights are likely much more valuable than whatever they could save in a buyout.

8. Seth Curry, SG, Brooklyn: This one seems more speculative, but one way for the Nets to further slice into their luxury-tax bill would be to reach a buyout agreement with Curry, who has an expiring contract. Curry is small, 32 and hasn’t had a great year, but as a 43 percent career 3-point shooter, he’d have interest from most contenders if he hit the market.

go-deeper
GO DEEPER

NBA trade deadline tiers: From Suns' sizable swing to Pistons' puzzling pursuit

9. Kevin Love, PF, Cleveland: Love makes $29 million and is racking up DNPs, but I can’t see a good reason to part with the 34-year-old veteran unless Love wanted to push his way to a new situation.

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10. Cory Joseph, PG, Detroit: Joseph is 31, and his play has tailed off this year, but teams looking for a reliable third point guard for the playoff run could do a lot worse if he and the Pistons decide to part ways.

11. Goran Dragić, Chicago: This one seems unlikely, but if the Bulls really do end up with Westbrook, then Dragić would seemingly be the odd man out. Dragić has not set the world afire (10.7 PER, 51.6 percent true shooting), but one wonders if the southpaw might have eyes for a reunion in Miami if that were the case.

12. Thaddeus Young, C, Toronto: Young has only $1 million guaranteed next year, has seen his role shrink in Toronto and may get squeezed even further now that the Raptors acquired Jakob Poeltl and have returned Precious Achiuwa to the lineup. There doesn’t seem to be a huge motivation for the Raptors to act here, however, so I suspect this one won’t be resolved until summer.

13. Kendrick Nunn, PG, Washington: It seemed possible Nunn might be a short-timer when Washington acquired him in the Rui Hachimura trade, but he’s off to a solid start in his first seven games, and the Wizards are lasered in on their annual chase for the No. 8 seed.

14. DeAndre Jordan, C, Denver: It’s not clear whether Jordan would be a buyout candidate for the tax-dwelling Nuggets now that they’ve acquired Thomas Bryant; Denver could use some wiggle room to get another guard or two, but Jordan has been a quasi-rotation player all season.


DeAndre Jordan (Gary A. Vasquez / USA Today)
Tier III: Guys You’ve Heard Of
15. Derrick Rose, SG, New York: Rose is out of the Knicks’ rotation and has a $15.5 million team option for next season that seems highly unlikely to be exercised. He hasn’t played well in his 338 minutes but was a productive scorer as recently as last season. He might be worth a shot if a team needs bench scoring.

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16. Will Barton, SG, Washington: Well, it looks like the Nuggets cashed in their Barton stock at the right time. The 32-year-old has struggled in D.C., shooting just 39.5 percent inside the arc in 40 games and gradually falling out of the mix — he’s only played more than 10 minutes in a game three times since Christmas. As with Rose above, he could be the answer for a team needing another shot creator, especially since he’s more credible as a wing defender than Rose.

17. Terrence Ross, SG, Orlando: Ross is 32, has an expiring contract and doesn’t really fit on a rebuilding Orlando team. He’s been much less shot-happy this season and is a 36.2 percent career 3-point shooter, but his defense was suspect even at the best of times, and it’s not clear whether he’s still good enough to crack a playoff team’s top dozen players.

Tier IV: Some other possibilities
18. Nerlens Noel, C, Detroit: Between the acquisition of James Wiseman and the fact Noel already was marooned at the end of the Pistons bench, it’s hard to see scenarios in which he’s with Detroit beyond this season. If the Pistons gave him his wings, another team in need of a shot blocker might be ready to step in.

19. Justin Holiday, SF, Houston: A steady 3-and-D wing in years past, Holiday seemed to lose some athletic juice over the past two seasons — as most easily seen in his shocking 3.0 percent rebound rate this season. He fell out of Atlanta’s rotation like a rock dropped from a plane, playing a grand total of 10 minutes since New Year’s Day. However, he can still shoot it (36.4 percent career from 3), never gets hurt and is a plus locker room guy, so perhaps a contender needing a fifth wing will take a look.

go-deeper
GO DEEPER

Kyrie Irving and LeBron James will still team up for the Lakers: 28 NBA trade deadline thoughts

20. Dewayne Dedmon, C, San Antonio (waived): Dedmon had a rough year in Miami, but he still rebounds at a high rate and can hit an occasional 3-pointer. Third centers are always in demand come playoff time, so Dedmon might get a look from some contenders.

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21. Serge Ibaka, C, Indiana (waived): Back issues have robbed Ibaka of much of the athleticism that made him so impactful as a younger player, which is why he never got in the mix in Milwaukee. As with Dedmon above, a playoff team in need of a third center could still have interest.

22. Terry Taylor, positionless, Indiana (waived): With a non-guaranteed season left on his deal at $1.8 million, Taylor would be an interesting waiver claim for a rebuilding team. More likely, he’d be a good pickup for a team with an open two-way spot. Taylor is a funky player — a 6-5 non-shooter best-described as a “power guard” — but he’s really effective around the basket and could have some Gary Payton II in him in the right system.

23. Kevin Knox, SF, Portland: It’s not clear what the Blazers’ plans are for Knox, but the 23-year-old combo forward showed some flashes in Detroit this year (61.2 percent true shooting, moments of defensive awareness) and would be an interesting reclamation project for a rebuilding team if waived.

24. Boban Marjanović, C, Houston (waived): Marjanović is one of the league’s most popular players, and reuniting him with Tobias Harris in Philly should be a national priority for Congress. That seems unlikely, but Houston is rumored to be interested in re-signing Marjanović after it completes its other trade deadline business.


Boban Marjanović (Jerome Miron / USA Today)
Tier V: Scraping the barrel
25. Bryn Forbes, SG, Minnesota (waived): An undersized shooting guard with a career 41 percent mark from 3, Forbes hasn’t quite shaken off the Spurs offense, taking a frustratingly high proportion of his shots inside the arc where he isn’t nearly as effective. He’s also very limited off the dribble, capping his effectiveness even in places like Denver and Minnesota that theoretically could have used a player like him.

26. Goga Bitadze, C, Indiana (waived): I was a Goga believer in his draft year, but the stretch big possibilities he showed as a prospect have yet to come to fruition (25.6 percent career from 3), and he might be the worst screener on the planet. I’d love to see a rebuilding team with available center minutes take a chance on him.

27. James Johnson, PF, Indiana (waived): I wouldn’t be shocked to see Johnson back in Indy once the dust clears; he filled the veteran-leader-who-doesn’t-play role for the Pacers, but there are only a few places where this type of work is available.

28. Juan Toscano-Anderson, PF, Utah: A low-skill, high-energy undersized big who never fit with the Lakers, Toscano-Anderson would likely do best in an up-tempo system that won’t put a laser beam on his half-court game.

29. Frank Kaminsky, C, Houston: Frank The Tank is caught between the four and five positions and isn’t quite enough of a 3-point threat to really scare opposing defenses, but he remains unusually adept at midrange bank shots and runners for a big man.

30. Alex Len, C, Sacramento: Stuck at the end of the Kings bench and on an expiring deal, Len would seem to be a prime candidate to be let go if Sacramento tries to add another wing in the buyout market.

31. Ryan Arcidiacono, PG, Portland: Give yourself bonus points if you remembered he was still in the league. Sadly, he can’t be part of the Villanova reunion taking place in New York; the Knicks are forbidden from reacquiring him. Anybody know what Randy Foye is up to?

32. Svi Mykhailiuk, SG, Charlotte: Svi is a big wing who can shoot but has struggled to gain traction the last few seasons, even flaming out on a Toronto team desperate for bench shooting. It’s not clear what the Hornets’ plans are for him, but he might hang on as a 15th man someplace else if released.

(Illustration: Eamonn Dalton / The Athletic; photos: Keith Birmingham, Gary Bassing, Stephen Gosling / Getty Images)
 
akajae said:
Rather be Laker Nation than the United Nations jumping from team to team.
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akajae said:
Crazy mma nfl weekend…

Back to basketball. My Lakers My Kings :emoji_triumph:
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akajae said:
Look at My Buccs my C's :emoji_heart_eyes:
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pmatic said:
IF the Clippers sign Brick, I think you go Mann-George-Kawhi-Morris-Zubac starting with Brick-Gordon-Batum-Plumlee/Covington (small ball matchup dependent) off the bench.
Click to expand...

I doubt Norm Powell gets taken out of the rotation. He’s been our 3rd best player the last 2 months.
 
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