- Apr 16, 2014
- 23,955
- 48,410
The Official NBA Season Thread: NBA Cup Night
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by pmatic,
- Start date
- Feb 23, 2013
- 13,934
- 25,176
EYE been saying its gonna come down to the games where embiid plays vs Nuggs/Bucks.. it will determine it just like it did last season
But i kept getting laughed at because of H2H comparisons
I was on the Embiid MVP train before perk even brought this up to the media
But i kept getting laughed at because of H2H comparisons
I was on the Embiid MVP train before perk even brought this up to the media
- Jan 8, 2006
- 30,560
- 33,906
You’re not high on the opinions I consider here trust me
- Feb 12, 2005
- 58,804
- 30,199
So, nah?
- Dec 27, 2014
- 35,508
- 78,083
- Sep 5, 2010
- 92,827
- 129,156
Just the MVP write up.
Amazingly, we have the same exact confounding problem we had a year ago: There are three MVPs, but only one can win each year. Once again, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Joel Embiid and Nikola Jokić are each having seasons that, historically, are usually good enough to win somebody an MVP trophy.
Consider that of the top-13 all-time seasons in PER since individual turnovers began being tracked in 1977-78, there have been seven such instances by these three gentlemen in the past four seasons. Last season, Embiid’s mark was bested by only eight individual seasons in the 44 campaigns between 1977-78 and 2020-21 … but it was topped by Jokić’s all-time record of 32.8 and Antetokoumpo’s 32.1 in 2021-22.
It’s really been an amazing stretch of history. Before we start splitting hairs between who’s better and starting nasty fights between Nuggets, Bucks and Sixers fans, let’s take a moment to let it sink in:
These are the three best players in the league right now by a significant margin, according to most advanced stats and the two things between my ears and above my nose. To use a couple of the nerdier metrics out there, DARKO has a wide gap between these three and a next tier of 10 clustered players that include the other familiar faces you might bring up in this argument, while LEBRON has them first, second and fourth. As noted in the chart above, they are first, third and fifth by PER and first, second and fourth by BPM.
While Jokić is still first in every one of these metrics, his lead has tightened — he even briefly lost his PER lead to Embiid and now leads by a 10th of a point. Additionally, the narrative on this award has unquestionably shifted. Jokić has maybe not quite been as dominant as he was the first half of the season, and perhaps of equal importance, the Nuggets no longer have more wins than the Bucks or Sixers.
As long as the Nuggets were ahead of those two in the standings, with Jokić their lone All-Star, he had a slam dunk prima facie case. The narrative was all his. (I’m aware James Harden didn’t make it this year for Philly. But literally nobody on the Nuggets has ever played in the game even once except DeAndre Jordan, who may or may not still be on the team, I haven’t really checked in a while.)
Now it gets interesting. Jokić still leads in the advanced stats and has the added advantage of having played more games and minutes than the other two, but there is a fair question of whether those stats take his defense into enough account.
There is also the issue of his offensive role. While Jokić’s 27 percent usage is notable for a center, it pales next to Embiid and Giannis … and Kyle Kuzma and Keldon Johnson and 32 other players. His efficiency in those possessions is utterly ridiculous (70.3 percent true shooting! That can’t be real! He shoots 62 percent from floater range!), but there are times you wish he was more of a pig.
Like, please shoot this?
Of course, Jokić is also the easiest teammate to play with on the planet, a mismatch in virtually any one-on-one matchup and someone who combines that with all-time great brilliance as a passer. Even his boring plays are amazing. Here, have a post entry:
Antetokounmpo has emerged back into the race as the Bucks have taken over the league’s top record, His undeniability as a two-way force on the league’s title favorite, and the creeping feeling that he should have more than two MVPs by this point, both likely factor into his candidacy.
Relative to Jokić, Antetokounmpo leads the league in usage rate, but it’s the opposite issues if you’re nit-picking: There are times you wish he’d pull back on the throttle. He still takes nearly five 3s per 100 possessions and mostly bricks them (28.8 percent), and his unsustainably high conversion rate on midrange 2s last season has fallen back to its historic range in the mid-30s. As a result, he’s actually having his least-efficient season in terms of both true shooting and PER since 2017-18.
On the other hand, his Bucks are possibly the closest thing we have to a dominant team right now, and he’s clearly the engine. A strong closing push that leaves the Bucks as the top overall seed will leave him with a strong case for his third trophy.
That said, how about Embiid? It would be a pretty tough pill to swallow if he very narrowly loses out on MVP to Jokić for a third straight year. Embiid’s stretch run this season has been jaw-droppingly awesome; he’s averaging a point a minute since the All-Star break and made at least half his shots in all 13 of those games, while also earning an absurdly ridiculous 13 free-throw attempts per game and being cash money (85.5 percent) from the stripe. As a scorer, Embiid doesn’t quite match Jokić’s efficiency but does it with far greater frequency.
He can still have his foibles — while Sixers fans have made a new sport out of Zaprudering Jokić’s defensive failings (hey, it’s still better than pickleball), Embiid’s own defensive effort can fluctuate sharply from play to play. He’s also still prone to turnovers on double-teams, although he’s cut those since the break too.
In a close race, however, you wonder if sentiment will be strongly on his side. These three awesome players are going to have five MVP awards between them at the end of this season; Jokić and Giannis will have at least two, and it seems a bit bizarre in comparison that Embiid will have zero of them.
How to choose? Good luck with that. I’m letting the season play out before I stan for any of these three, but this is not the cakewalk to a Jokić three-peat that it seemed to be in February.
Consider that of the top-13 all-time seasons in PER since individual turnovers began being tracked in 1977-78, there have been seven such instances by these three gentlemen in the past four seasons. Last season, Embiid’s mark was bested by only eight individual seasons in the 44 campaigns between 1977-78 and 2020-21 … but it was topped by Jokić’s all-time record of 32.8 and Antetokoumpo’s 32.1 in 2021-22.
It’s really been an amazing stretch of history. Before we start splitting hairs between who’s better and starting nasty fights between Nuggets, Bucks and Sixers fans, let’s take a moment to let it sink in:
These are the three best players in the league right now by a significant margin, according to most advanced stats and the two things between my ears and above my nose. To use a couple of the nerdier metrics out there, DARKO has a wide gap between these three and a next tier of 10 clustered players that include the other familiar faces you might bring up in this argument, while LEBRON has them first, second and fourth. As noted in the chart above, they are first, third and fifth by PER and first, second and fourth by BPM.
While Jokić is still first in every one of these metrics, his lead has tightened — he even briefly lost his PER lead to Embiid and now leads by a 10th of a point. Additionally, the narrative on this award has unquestionably shifted. Jokić has maybe not quite been as dominant as he was the first half of the season, and perhaps of equal importance, the Nuggets no longer have more wins than the Bucks or Sixers.
As long as the Nuggets were ahead of those two in the standings, with Jokić their lone All-Star, he had a slam dunk prima facie case. The narrative was all his. (I’m aware James Harden didn’t make it this year for Philly. But literally nobody on the Nuggets has ever played in the game even once except DeAndre Jordan, who may or may not still be on the team, I haven’t really checked in a while.)
Now it gets interesting. Jokić still leads in the advanced stats and has the added advantage of having played more games and minutes than the other two, but there is a fair question of whether those stats take his defense into enough account.
There is also the issue of his offensive role. While Jokić’s 27 percent usage is notable for a center, it pales next to Embiid and Giannis … and Kyle Kuzma and Keldon Johnson and 32 other players. His efficiency in those possessions is utterly ridiculous (70.3 percent true shooting! That can’t be real! He shoots 62 percent from floater range!), but there are times you wish he was more of a pig.
Like, please shoot this?
Of course, Jokić is also the easiest teammate to play with on the planet, a mismatch in virtually any one-on-one matchup and someone who combines that with all-time great brilliance as a passer. Even his boring plays are amazing. Here, have a post entry:
Antetokounmpo has emerged back into the race as the Bucks have taken over the league’s top record, His undeniability as a two-way force on the league’s title favorite, and the creeping feeling that he should have more than two MVPs by this point, both likely factor into his candidacy.
Relative to Jokić, Antetokounmpo leads the league in usage rate, but it’s the opposite issues if you’re nit-picking: There are times you wish he’d pull back on the throttle. He still takes nearly five 3s per 100 possessions and mostly bricks them (28.8 percent), and his unsustainably high conversion rate on midrange 2s last season has fallen back to its historic range in the mid-30s. As a result, he’s actually having his least-efficient season in terms of both true shooting and PER since 2017-18.
On the other hand, his Bucks are possibly the closest thing we have to a dominant team right now, and he’s clearly the engine. A strong closing push that leaves the Bucks as the top overall seed will leave him with a strong case for his third trophy.
That said, how about Embiid? It would be a pretty tough pill to swallow if he very narrowly loses out on MVP to Jokić for a third straight year. Embiid’s stretch run this season has been jaw-droppingly awesome; he’s averaging a point a minute since the All-Star break and made at least half his shots in all 13 of those games, while also earning an absurdly ridiculous 13 free-throw attempts per game and being cash money (85.5 percent) from the stripe. As a scorer, Embiid doesn’t quite match Jokić’s efficiency but does it with far greater frequency.
He can still have his foibles — while Sixers fans have made a new sport out of Zaprudering Jokić’s defensive failings (hey, it’s still better than pickleball), Embiid’s own defensive effort can fluctuate sharply from play to play. He’s also still prone to turnovers on double-teams, although he’s cut those since the break too.
In a close race, however, you wonder if sentiment will be strongly on his side. These three awesome players are going to have five MVP awards between them at the end of this season; Jokić and Giannis will have at least two, and it seems a bit bizarre in comparison that Embiid will have zero of them.
How to choose? Good luck with that. I’m letting the season play out before I stan for any of these three, but this is not the cakewalk to a Jokić three-peat that it seemed to be in February.
- Jun 22, 2018
- 5,248
- 6,446
It shows how we've grown as a society. 20 years ago dying your locs skittle colors meant you were getting ready for the parade in the Village, now it's gangsta...If you are praising Tekashi and thinking about copying his locs I am convinced this is you at recess
WASHED KING running back to the principal with grounds for detention on everybody
- Jan 20, 2002
- 54,302
- 31,851
Kerr master strategist
Dubs win on the road and Blog boys quiet. Lets talk MVP voting
Damn im in here bsing i forgot bout the supreme drop
What i will say though to change it up a bit is how great the Sixers been on the road this year - i doubt we steal that 2nd seed so being on the road might be familiar to them this playoff run
Nothing like that 2019-2020 team on the road
What i will say though to change it up a bit is how great the Sixers been on the road this year - i doubt we steal that 2nd seed so being on the road might be familiar to them this playoff run
Nothing like that 2019-2020 team on the road
- Apr 16, 2014
- 23,955
- 48,410
Waiting on the word about this Lebron injury update.
That's all that really matters today. Lakers get in to the playoffs y'all all in trouble.
That's all that really matters today. Lakers get in to the playoffs y'all all in trouble.
- Apr 16, 2014
- 23,955
- 48,410
Damn im in here bsing i forgot bout the supreme drop
What i will say though to change it up a bit is how great the Sixers been on the road this year - i doubt we steal that 2nd seed so being on the road might be familiar to them this playoff run
Nothing like that 2019-2020 team on the road
Same, still got my soccer shorts though.
- Aug 20, 2001
- 29,035
- 64,023
Black or navy? They clean and simple
Wanted another black hoodie to sit with my other black hoodies i dont wear lol
Damn mvp discussion lol
- Jun 24, 2013
- 32,364
- 34,861
If Big Man Assists weren’t so heavily weighted when it comes to BPM and such, I wonder what the outcome would be
- Apr 16, 2014
- 23,955
- 48,410
I went with black, may double back for navy once I get them in hand and depends on how much I like them. Yeah imma get a greyhoodie for resell in a week or so. I know they won't be reselling for too much.
- Aug 11, 2012
- 55,518
- 147,144
This is very true. Imagine the ball stopping/bull in China shop **** in Kerr system
. But imagine Andrew Wiggins trying to lead a team as a #1 option in New York City It’s cool to see things kind of work out for them respectively, given a semi-underwhelming start to their young careers
- Aug 11, 2012
- 55,518
- 147,144
- Aug 11, 2012
- 55,518
- 147,144
25-12-10 on 60/40/80 splits are not normal
. Embiid in the driver seat right now, but cmon man lol
- Aug 11, 2012
- 55,518
- 147,144
What is this supposed to show?
Different articles that are repeating information from an ESPN Poll?
- Feb 12, 2005
- 58,804
- 30,199
It's timid...he once talked about wanting to walk into work with a fresh OBJ cut, frosted tips and all.
- Aug 20, 2001
- 29,035
- 64,023
This is OD Bev finna roll up on dude
Looking forward to what he has to say about this on his next pod
- Mar 24, 2001
- 44,833
- 66,536
Yea exactly. One poll shaped the whole narrative
Also this was Mike Malone 3 weeks ago. But now he wants to act like a ***** and get on some kumbaya ****
- Aug 11, 2012
- 55,518
- 147,144
This is disrespectful
This is disrespectful to Lin. Especially if you watched college ball at the time. I’m surprised you forgot
. He gave KEMBA IN COLLEGE 30, on prime time:And I know you remember this lol.
Lin was a starter on a playoff team for a couple seasons. Averaged double digits As a guard for most of his career. Shoot, Lin was going to have another light weight Linsanity moment in Brooklyn, before his injury. With a backcourt with D-Lo, ironically enough.
He could really hoop. Same way with Austin Reaves. It ain’t no secret, other than what people think because of stereotypes/appearance,
big j 33
Supporter
- May 31, 2006
- 36,043
- 16,804
KAT is a dork
JJJ is the man..
I was rooting for Kuminga in the draf
MVP discussion is exhausting when it comes to theories and agendas and tearing down other players. Always been that way, though. The shocker of the century may be that each year multiple people are worthy.
JJJ is the man..
I was rooting for Kuminga in the draf
MVP discussion is exhausting when it comes to theories and agendas and tearing down other players. Always been that way, though. The shocker of the century may be that each year multiple people are worthy.
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