The Official Nike LeBron XII Thread- "July 4th/USA" & "King's Cloak/Red Paisley" 06/27/15

[bigj505]

its because your logic and reason has some serious flaws that you clearly do not see. you are the only one arguing your point and everyone else has given you long, thorough responses that you don't even take the time to absorb. stating that bron is your favorite player further shows you have an unbalanced view of things.

Just because some people do not agree with me, does not mean that there are any flaws in my argument, it simply means that you disagree.

Fact is, LeBron had issues with his back in the VI, and he had issues with the XI in regard to fit. That said, Nike didn't get it right, so to suspect that he is having issues in this shoe is not a reach, considering past efforts by Nike.

Now, point out the flaw.

I'm done. i know a wall when i see a wall.

 

[ventureblake]

 
Just because some people do not agree with me, does not mean that there are any flaws in my argument, it simply means that you disagree.

Fact is, LeBron had issues with his back in the VI, and he had issues with the XI in regard to fit. That said, Nike didn't get it right, so to suspect that he is having issues in this shoe is not a reach, considering past efforts by Nike.

Now, point out the flaw.

I just don't understand why you suspect that something is wrong with this current model.  The season just started, lots of stuff on his plate this summer, new coach/new team....I'm not surprised that he doesn't look the same right now.  He's worn the shoe every game with no problem switching out to other cw's during halftime.  

But if that's your opinion....fine.  I suspect that your favorite player, DRose, is having a terrible time playing in an Adidas shoe.  Must be why he gets injured so much.  *sarcasm and reaching for the stars* 

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

I'm done. i know a wall when i see a wall.

No, we are two adults having a respectful disagreement. No wall here. If you can point out the flaw in my position, I will acquiesce.

My argument isn't coming from a point of ego, it is coming from the position that this shoe may have been flawed from the beginning, thus the delay, AND LeBron's past issues with some of his kicks.

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

 
I just don't understand why you suspect that something is wrong with this current model.  The season just started, lots of stuff on his plate this summer, new coach/new team....I'm not surprised that he doesn't look the same right now.  He's worn the shoe every game with no problem switching out to other cw's during halftime.  

But if that's your opinion....fine.  I suspect that your favorite player, DRose, is having a terrible time playing in an Adidas shoe.  Must be why he gets injured so much.  *sarcasm and reaching for the stars* 

This is not a brand thing, as all brands can make mistakes. There is no doubt about this. 

 

[tigo0240]

 
Im debating whether I should grab the NSRLs now or wait for the rerelease, just the eyelets will be different?

I would wait. That eyelet thing goes and your laces rub against raw posite material. More trouble for an already troublesome lacing system.

 

[andersonrezende]

 
There was also a shoe that was scrapped by Nike that was to be LeBron's shoe, one made of FoamPosite.

That one never saw the light of day.

Pics?

 

[rl_wayne]

Okay, traction issues aside, which is minimal, there is no DOUBT that the transition from Zoom Air to Max Air in the VII, was a big deal

It was a serious issue. 

This was also when a new designer came on board, so changes of that magnitude suggest that there was indeed an issue that needed to be dealt with.

There was also a shoe that was scrapped by Nike that was to be LeBron's shoe, one made of FoamPosite.

That one never saw the light of day.

I honestly have zero idea how much of a factor his back played in the switch from zoom to max, but this is a direct quote from Jason Petrie from an old interview about the VIIs where he mentions why they did the switch:

SN: As far as the design of the shoe, was it your idea to abandon the Zoom technology and add the Flywire and the Air Max? And if so, was there any resistance or opposition to it?

JP: The whole Air Max thing… It’s funny. I see online like it was my call or LeBron’s call. That’s such a big deal and we knew we had it coming because we had seen it in the works for a long time. And initially, in all honesty, I didn’t want to do it. LeBron is Zoom. He’s established Zoom, and I love Zoom. Until they started getting the Air bag kind of finished and they started explaining the benefits of the bag, and we started looking at LeBron’s foot and hearing some things LeBron was telling us like, ‘Hey man, I can’t feel the Zoom’ in a couple shoes he’d been playing in. We started cutting up into some shoes and what we didn’t want to do was say ‘Oh we have an airbag’ and just put it out there because we can. We wanted to make sure it was better. So we went through a whole lot of arguments. Some people were fighting for it. Some people were fighting against it. But then we started seeing those benefits and we were like ‘oh man!’. And then we started seeing high speed videos, and hearing back from people wear-testing it. Then we got our own pairs to play in and we were like, ‘Wow, this is really cool!’ Let’s see if LeBron would be into changing his ride, cause we’ve heard him kind of complaining about what’s been going on and this might be pretty cool. And again, this is super early on and he tested an early prototype and was like ‘Yo, the ride is great!’ He knows Zoom and he knows Max, but he’s like, ‘Whatever provides for me the best. Give me what it takes to get me where I’m going.’ So with that we were like alright, ‘Boom! Lets go!’ So that established the Max thing and we were all into it from there.
http://sneakernews.com/2009/12/01/designer-jason-petrie-discusses-nike-air-max-lebron-vii-more/

He did play in the VIs for the entire season though (and won MVP), so I don't know how much the shoes contributed to any back problems he had. I'm no chiropractor or expert on that.

As for the Zoom Powers that got scrapped in favor of the official VIs, I don't remember if they ever gave an exact explanation for that. It's possible that Lebron didn't like them cuz they featured posite, and they didn't work well for his feet. But if that was the case, I'm confused why they tried to go back to posite again last year with XIs. He also might've just not liked how they looked, and they got scrapped off of looks. It's happened before with MJ and him asking Tinker/Nike to scrap the original X design cuz he simply didn't like how the toebox looked.

Regardless...I just think it's way too soon to speculate that Nike is forcing him to wear the XIIs.

 

[rl_wayne]

Pics?

Zoom Powers
View media item 1256953http://nikelebron.net/2009/02/12/an_exclusive_look_at_the_zoom_power_aka_the_other_six/
http://nikelebron.net/2009/09/24/throwback_thursday_zoom_power_lbj6_prototype_showcase/

 

[bigj505]

man i wanted those zoom powers.

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

I honestly have zero idea how much of a factor his back played in the switch from zoom to max, but this is a direct quote from Jason Petrie from an old interview about the VIIs where he mentions why they did the switch:

SN: As far as the design of the shoe, was it your idea to abandon the Zoom technology and add the Flywire and the Air Max? And if so, was there any resistance or opposition to it?

JP: The whole Air Max thing… It’s funny. I see online like it was my call or LeBron’s call. That’s such a big deal and we knew we had it coming because we had seen it in the works for a long time. And initially, in all honesty, I didn’t want to do it. LeBron is Zoom. He’s established Zoom, and I love Zoom. Until they started getting the Air bag kind of finished and they started explaining the benefits of the bag, and we started looking at LeBron’s foot and hearing some things LeBron was telling us like, ‘Hey man, I can’t feel the Zoom’ in a couple shoes he’d been playing in. We started cutting up into some shoes and what we didn’t want to do was say ‘Oh we have an airbag’ and just put it out there because we can. We wanted to make sure it was better. So we went through a whole lot of arguments. Some people were fighting for it. Some people were fighting against it. But then we started seeing those benefits and we were like ‘oh man!’. And then we started seeing high speed videos, and hearing back from people wear-testing it. Then we got our own pairs to play in and we were like, ‘Wow, this is really cool!’ Let’s see if LeBron would be into changing his ride, cause we’ve heard him kind of complaining about what’s been going on and this might be pretty cool. And again, this is super early on and he tested an early prototype and was like ‘Yo, the ride is great!’ He knows Zoom and he knows Max, but he’s like, ‘Whatever provides for me the best. Give me what it takes to get me where I’m going.’ So with that we were like alright, ‘Boom! Lets go!’ So that established the Max thing and we were all into it from there.
http://sneakernews.com/2009/12/01/designer-jason-petrie-discusses-nike-air-max-lebron-vii-more/

He did play in the VIs for the entire season though (and won MVP), so I don't know how much the shoes contributed to any back problems he had. I'm no chiropractor or expert on that.

As for the Zoom Powers that got scrapped in favor of the official VIs, I don't remember if they ever gave an exact explanation for that. It's possible that Lebron didn't like them cuz they featured posite, and they didn't work well for his feet. But if that was the case, I'm confused why they tried to go back to posite again last year with XIs. He also might've just not liked how they looked, and they got scrapped off of looks. It's happened before with MJ and him asking Tinker/Nike to scrap the original X design cuz he simply didn't like how the toebox looked.

Regardless...I just think it's way too soon to speculate that Nike is forcing him to wear the XIIs.

That is great research, but I think that we do know that Nike will not be very honest through articles like this, because they didn't interview the designer of the VI, which was Ken Link I believe. So Petrie had nothing to do with that shoe.  Also, this is the same Jason Petrie who went at Derrick Rose, then blaming his Adidas shoes for his injury, in which he caught a whole heap of trouble, and then rightfully so.

 

[mister friendly]

Do you realize Lebron gets his signature model months ahead of time?

They are custom built for him

If he has a problem with them after production isn't it partly his own fault for not giving the designers proper feedback?

 

[andersonrezende]

Zoom Powers

http://nikelebron.net/2009/02/12/an_exclusive_look_at_the_zoom_power_aka_the_other_six/
http://nikelebron.net/2009/09/24/throwback_thursday_zoom_power_lbj6_prototype_showcase/

Thanks!!!! Never saw these.

 

[mf gooze]

^Me neither. They look alot better than the Vis ...swoosh needs work though.

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

Do you realize Lebron gets his signature model months ahead of time?

They are custom built for him

If he has a problem with them after production isn't it partly his own fault for not giving the designers proper feedback?

What is supposed to happen is that after he wears them during test runs, they are supposed to examine the hot spots on a shoe, the weak areas, and the areas that may need more flex, traction, and so forth.

You build the shoe for the athlete in question. However, consumers matter, and in the case of Nike and the LeBron XI, the consumers won.

 

[addtocartfailed]

Just waiting for the discounts to begin...

 

[mister friendly]

Nike probably listens to their signature athletes

Jordan, Kobe, Barkley, KD, Penny, David Robinson etc haven't seemed to have a lot problems with their signature models but Lebron keeps having problems with them?

It sounds like Lebron is finicky.

Tinker Hatfield has said Lebron is hard to work with

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

Nike probably listens to their signature athletes

Jordan, Kobe, Barkley, KD, Penny, David Robinson etc haven't seemed to have a lot problems with their signature models but Lebron keeps having problems with them?

It sounds like Lebron is finicky.

Tinker Hatfield has said Lebron is hard to work with

Fit, is something that you cannot make mistakes with.

 

[ventureblake]

The posite not being black on the DF is a game changer for me 

  I can see that green tint on the FNL pics.  Bummer, I just can't get down with that seaweed-ish stuff they keep forcing on the Dunkman/Force

 

[dc30]

phuzzy badpheet

I'm not sure of your background or knowledge etc in this area, but I will say this...I have been a trainer for 15 years. I have my degree in Exercise Physiology along with my CSCS from the NSCA and a few other certifications.

And to think that for whatever reason you are perceiving LeBron to be playing at less than optimal levels (in your eyes) based only on the XII being all wrong for him is absurb.

Ok so you say you're a fan and have seen him train etc. But you don't train with him, or like him, so do you really know how much stress he is putting on his body during a regular training session? Most likely no. Plus does he wear the XII while training? Most likely not either. But let's look at how long he wears whatever he wears during the day.

If he works out let's say he wears Air Maxes, and casual he wears more Air Maxes, other LeBron's, casual dress shoes, slides...whatever. I'm guessing that the time spent during an entire week outweighs the time spent wearing the XII at any given time. So to pin any physical issues on the shoes alone is again absurd. He just doesn't wear them enough for some acute physical ailment to arise...ESPECIALLY with amount of therapy/massage/nutrition he gets on a regular basis.

IF there is a physical issue going on, I can almost 100% assure you...his basketball shoes with his CUSTOM MADE inserts are not THE culprit. Especially not in the limited time spent in them over the entire week/month. Even more so given the fact that the season is so young.

The XI did not work for his inserts...this is not new. The drop in lunar changed the entire internal volume of his shoe, stacking an ortho in there on the lunar leaves almost no room for his feet. Did they try things for him? Yes...but to make him an ENTIRE new shoe? No point. They would have had to go to basically what the XII is, a NON insert shoe with a traditional insole/airsole/midsole setup...oh wait...they had one. The Soldier. So what did he do? SImply rocked another shoe with his name all over it.

Could you say encouraged? Sure...but ultimately his basketball career is bigger than his Nike contract, so Soldiers it was. AND if you look at sales numbers of the XI, they did remarkably well, so really, with the XII, what is Nike trying to fix? The shoe still sold and that was that.

IMO Nike is forcing nothing on him. He has worn them each game so far and multiples in game as well. I believe this shoe fits him just fine. I also believe Nike and LeBron did the beefed up wear testing as stated to AVOID the XI issues they had.

He's not as Superman as he usually is? Eh maybe, but people said that when he started in Miami too. 4 years is not that long ago to forget is it? And there is so much going on the you do NOT see that he does, that to pin anything on his shoes is again...absurd.

 

[Mister Meaner]

It makes absolutely zero sense that a sneaker company would force a product on an athlete, if said product caused pain/discomfort for the athlete.

And it makes even less sense for an athlete to go along with such a bogus proposal.

And this is all to save face for the debacle that was the XI? Son, you can't be serious

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

It makes absolutely zero sense that a sneaker company would force a product on an athlete, if said product caused pain/discomfort for the athlete.

And it makes even less sense for an athlete to go along with such a bogus proposal.

And this is all to save face for the debacle that was the XI? Son, you can't be serious

Is Nike a business?

Do you think that they would like to suffer from another year of bad publicity?

I'm as serious as a heart attack.

 

[illmatic]

It makes absolutely zero sense that a sneaker company would force a product on an athlete, if said product caused pain/discomfort for the athlete.

And it makes even less sense for an athlete to go along with such a bogus proposal.

And this is all to save face for the debacle that was the XI? Son, you can't be serious

They're paying him a substantial amount of money to endorse their products. I think they can force it upon him if he still wants them to cut him that check

 

[bigj505]

It makes absolutely zero sense that a sneaker company would force a product on an athlete, if said product caused pain/discomfort for the athlete.


And it makes even less sense for an athlete to go along with such a bogus proposal.


And this is all to save face for the debacle that was the XI? Son, you can't be serious

They're paying him a substantial amount of money to endorse their products. I think they can force it upon him if he still wants them to cut him that check

no they can't. bron would just wear some older brons or his soldiers... or pull a d wade

 

[Mister Meaner]

Is Nike a business?

Do you think that they would like to suffer from another year of bad publicity?

I'm as serious as a heart attack.

you know the answer to those simple rhetoric questions. But ask yourself this. Nike has already **** the bed when it comes to a signature shoe for this athlete. And what did he do? He wore a different shoe. If you suspect that the XII could be hurting his game, why hasn't he switched?

You don't just continue to wear something that hinders your game & hurts you. That's not how the human response to pain works.

 

[dc30]

Is Nike a business?

Do you think that they would like to suffer from another year of bad publicity?

I'm as serious as a heart attack.

Bad publicity? Nike's bottom line...is their bottom line. The XI sold extremely well. That is all that matters.

Same reason a sig shoe was NOT scrapped mid season. Just switch to the Soldiers. No cost in developing a new sig shoe JUST for lebron. All pairs are produced way in advance. You can't just scrap all the money they put into them. So Soldiers were the obvious solution.

If you can provide the research you seem to be a fan of which documents all the "bad publicity" they "suffered", I'm sure a lot of us would be quiet.