*Warning: The Official Spoiler Thread* Vol. We Spoiling Everything B!

[IATT]

The Avengers should still be able to operate how they see fit.

as a leader of an independent country in that movie said:
King T'Chaka : "Our people's blood is spilled on foreign soil. Not only because of the actions of criminals, but by the indifference of those pledged to stop them. Victory at the expense of the innocent is no victory at all."


and as a fellow military officer who outranked steve and also an avenger:
Lt. Col. James Rhodes : "Sorry, Steve, that... that is dangerously arrogant. This is the United Nations we're talking about. It's not the World Security Council, it's not S.H.I.E.L.D., it's not Hydra."

 

[Versailles]

as a leader of an independent country in that movie said:
King T'Chaka : "Our people's blood is spilled on foreign soil. Not only because of the actions of criminals, but by the indifference of those pledged to stop them. Victory at the expense of the innocent is no victory at all."


and as a fellow military officer who outranked steve and also an avenger:
Lt. Col. James Rhodes : "Sorry, Steve, that... that is dangerously arrogant. This is the United Nations we're talking about. It's not the World Security Council, it's not S.H.I.E.L.D., it's not Hydra."

Kinda ironic in Black Panther, T'Challa went to South Korea to go after Klau without letting the South Korean Government know of their plans. The United States Govt (CIA Agent Ross) told him not to get involved, but he still did.

James Rhodes also questioned his own decision to sign those Accords in Infinity War. He still followed Cap in EndGame.

 

[IATT]

Kinda ironic in Black Panther, T'Challa went to South Korea to go after Klau without letting the South Korean Government know of their plans. The United States told him not to get involved, but he still did.

he's not american.. also wasnt an avenger

do you think the south koreans should just stay quiet about BP AND the american government's official operating in their country in secret?

and t'chaka and t'challa are 2 different people

 

[Versailles]

it's not about being american or an avenger. your whole point on this debate was not overstepping on other countries sovereignty.

so its okay for everyone to get involved but not Americans and Avengers?

South Korea stay quiet? idk bro, King T'Challa didn't let them know of their plans.

yeah they 2 different people, but it seems like the way T'Challa acted, he wouldnt sign the accords either cause he cant be going to other countries going after Klau.

What about King T'Chaka sending spies like KillMongers dad (resulted in Black Market Vibranium) in Oakland and several parts of the world? isn't that overstepping on other countries sovereignty.

oh the irony.

he's not american.. also wasnt an avenger

do you think the south koreans should just stay quiet about BP AND the american government's official operating in their country in secret?

and t'chaka and t'challa are 2 different people

 

[IATT]

so its okay for everyone else but not Americans and Avengers?

it's not ok for anyone, but it happens..

however, their are laws and repercussions.. people no matter how talented or gifted cant just do whatever the hell they want.. steve taking the super soldier serum doesnt make him judge and jury.. also doesnt give him autonomy

 

[Versailles]

seems like you nitpicked my entire position and just went at it because of your bias of Steve Rogers. I took out Steve Rogers from the conversation posts ago.

you literally ignored everything else.

the debate you brought up was private orgs and people not stepping over other countries sovereignty.

you quoted T'Chaka, but he was sending Wakandan spies all over the world and was overstepping those countries sovereignty, which resulted in the Black Market Vibranium.

which is very ironic.

it's not ok for anyone, but it happens..

however, their are laws and repercussions.. people no matter how talented or gifted cant just do whatever the hell they want.. steve taking the super soldier serum doesnt make him judge and jury.. also doesnt give him autonomy

 

[IATT]

seems like you nitpicked my entire position and just went to it because of your bias of Steve Rogers.

i think it's incredible stupid to think the avengers cant follow at least some rules and at the very least be answerable to someone

i also think the avengers are bigger than just 1 person, steve rogers

i also think the world is bigger than just 1 country, america

and being an avenger isnt some get out of jail free card for any and all crimes that may be committed by its members

 

[Master Zik]

how was he right? the Accords split the Avengers apart.

At the end of the day, majority of the Avengers still gravitated towards Cap and followed him.

The Avengers were split apart, the moment Stark signed the Accords.

They were all wrong though.

If they all signed the accords the Avengers would've been completely unified for Infinity War.

Ant-Man and Hawkguy ended up doing deals with the gov. where they retired.

Notice how all of the ppl that stuck with scumbag Steve were similar to him in that they had no family or friends or loved ones or real connections. Just hopping around the globe homeless being international vigilantes.

And there was nothing unjust about the accords. How exactly is holding the ppl who turn city squares and local markets in to war zones and shootouts unjust?

for example, if the Captain Marvel and the New Avengers need to help Xandar because they bout to get eaten up by Galactus, does the governments of the world need to ask permission from the Xandar Government to send in The Avengers to help? how would you apply it to that scenario? just curious, bro

Thats space **** man.

The U.N. aint got no jurisdiction past the atmosphere.

The Sokovia Accords were about protecting human lives ON EARTH.

 

[Versailles]

They were all wrong though.

If they all signed the accords the Avengers would've been completely unified for Infinity War.

Ant-Man and Hawkguy ended up doing deals with the gov. where they retired.

Notice how all of the ppl that stuck with scumbag Steve were similar to him in that they had no family or friends or loved ones or real connections. Just hopping around the globe homeless being international vigilantes.

And there was nothing unjust about the accords. How exactly is holding the ppl who turn city squares and local markets in to war zones and shootouts unjust?

Thats space **** man.

The U.N. aint got no jurisdiction past the atmosphere.

The Sokovia Accords were about protecting human lives ON EARTH.

if they didnt sign the accords, they would be unified also in Infinity War.

about the space ****? yeah you right, The UN has no jurisdiction in space.

But its the government, bro. it would set a precedent. what makes you think they would stop at that eventually. its a slippery slope that would turn into some Hydra ****.

they were both wrong man, Steve is gone now after EndGame, but i still think that the Avengers going forward shouldnt have a governing body.

Tony's Mistake was signing onto the accords right away cause of his guilt doing ULTRON.
Steve's Mistake was not telling Tony about Howard and his over infatuation with his BFF Bucky.

They couldve found a common ground, but the Sokovia Accords wasnt it, dawg.

 

[IATT]

But its the government, bro.

The UN is made up of 193 countries

There is no singular “government”

Each country has their own individual laws and government that govern its own citizens

 

[Versailles]

The UN is made up of 193 countries

There is no singular “government”

Each country has their own individual laws and government that govern its own citizens

yeah you right, but let me ask you this.. when was the last time the United Nations actually helped and prevent wars and conflicts around the world? it hasnt. Their best feature is providing humanitarian aid.

The Sokovia Accords was an agreement between those 100+ countries to have an UN-ELECTED panel to supervise and approve what the Avengers does and doesnt. There are several problems with this,

The Accords wasnt even a binding resolution approved and passed by the UN Security Council, It was passed via The General Assembly, it's not a Treaty or a Constitutional Amendment. its basically virtue signalling, to show they care on what happened in Sokovia and in the future. The United Nations can't really enforce anything related to National Security.

The UN basically wrote a phonebook for nothing. yeah its a nice symbolic gesture, which is what the United Nations is known for.

it is also unconstitutional because it would have super-powered individuals like Peter Parker, etc. to reveal his identity to the Public which would breach civil liberties and privacy laws.

 

[Master Zik]

it's not about being american or an avenger. your whole point on this debate was not overstepping on other countries sovereignty.

so its okay for everyone to get involved but not Americans and Avengers?

South Korea stay quiet? idk bro, King T'Challa didn't let them know of their plans.

yeah they 2 different people, but it seems like the way T'Challa acted, he wouldnt sign the accords either cause he cant be going to other countries going after Klau.

What about King T'Chaka sending spies like KillMongers dad (resulted in Black Market Vibranium) in Oakland and several parts of the world? isn't that overstepping on other countries sovereignty.

oh the irony.

Every country capable practices spycraft or spywarfare in foreign countries.

You don't ask other countries to allow your spies to spy on them. That defeats the purpose

Matter fact the CIA estimates there are mire foreign spies in America than there has ever been.

Spying isnt the same thing as having operatives on foreign soil executing high risk missions in public. Even among countries with allies theres a limit to that.

We don't really know the public relations of Wakanda and South Korea (I would assume they are allies). Regardless T'Challa is a sovereign king of a foreign nation and thus has the privilege of diplomatic immunity as well as his Royal guard the Dora Milaje.

if they didnt sign the accords, they would be unified also in Infinity War.

No. They wouldnt have.

They would've all been forced in to retirement or be declared criminals and be arrested or become fugitives on the run. Falcon straight up said it's been a tough few years in IW. Wanda would've been deported. Probably Natasha too.

Tony or Bruce would be lucky if they ended up with Vision in their custody.

There would be no Avengers.

People seem to forget the facts. The reason the accords exist is directly tied to the Winter Soldier and there no longer being a SHIELD. In Avengers, SHIELD and its director Nick Fury were what held the Avengers accountable, gathered them for a mission and did all the burecratic work necessary.

Now Rogers was like no more SHIELD and thought he could be on the same reckless bull **** he was on in Avengers and Winter Soldier.

That's not how the world works.

But its the government, bro. it would set a precedent. what makes you think they would stop at that eventually. its a slippery slope that would turn into some Hydra ****.

No its not just the government. Its the United Nations. Its every government in that group saying you cant just globetrot country to country wrecking ****. What theyre saying is the slippery slope is letting the Avengers do whatever they want and possibly end up with something worse than the Battle of New York or Sokovia.

they were both wrong man, Steve is gone now after EndGame, but i still think that the Avengers going forward shouldnt have a governing body.

No. One of them were wrong. Clearly. Steve Rogers. Tony straight up said if we get out in front of it we will have a say and he clearly did given how he was capable to do what he needed to do in Homecoming and Infinity War.

Tony's Mistake was signing onto the accords right away cause of his guilt doing ULTRON.
Steve's Mistake was not telling Tony about Howard and his over infatuation with his BFF Bucky.

Again no. Tony didn't sign solely out of guilt. He perfectly understood the situation. There is no more SHIELD to be held accountable as well as the Avengers.

They couldve found a common ground, but the Sokovia Accords wasnt it, dawg.

Steve didnt want to find common ground and the Sokovia accords definitely were it. With them signing it they all would've had a say in what they do instead of being told where and when they could do anything.

Rogers chose to be a criminal. That was the wrong choice.

 

[IATT]

yeah you right, but let me ask you this.. when was the last time the United Nations actually helped and prevent wars and conflicts around the world? it hasnt. They're best feature is providing humanitarian aid.

The Sokovia Accords was an agreement between those 100+ countries to have an UN-ELECTED panel to supervise and approve what the Avengers do and doesnt. There are several problems with this,

The Accords wasnt even a non-binding resolution approved and passed by the UN Security Council, it's not a Treaty or a Constitutional Amendment. its basically virtue signalling, to show they care to what happened. The United Nations can't really enforce anything related to National Security.

If doctors need to have a license and insurance before they can practice their vocation, I don’t think it’s asking a lot of the avengers to be licensed as well and have to follow some rules and regulations

Especially if independent nations come to that conclusion

O and this seems pretty big:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons


Also:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement

 

[Versailles]

If doctors need to have a license and insurance before they can practice their vocation, I don’t think it’s asking a lot of the avengers to be licensed as well and have to follow some rules and regulations

Especially if independent nations come to that conclusion

O and this seems pretty big:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons


Also:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement

its good how you bring up the Paris Agreement, again its not a non binding resolution. anyone can pull out of it and not follow it. As Rogers said, its run by people with agendas and agendas change.

When Trump got elected he pulled out of the Paris Agreement. he didnt give af. lmao

you all make good points, i respect all.

 

[IATT]

its good how you bring up the Paris Agreement, again its not a non binding resolution. anyone can pull out of it and not follow it. As Rogers said, its run by people with agendas and agendas change.

When Trump got elected he pulled out of the Paris Agreement. he didnt give af. lmao

you all make good points, i respect all.

So you get the problem 1 man acting autonomously can have

The US has a system structured for checks and balances that has failed because the control republicans have

You don’t even want a system for the avengers

 

[Versailles]

So you get the problem 1 man acting autonomously can have

The US has a system structured for checks and balances that has failed because the control republicans have

You don’t even want a system for the avengers

pretty sure existing laws would hold them accountable.

 

[IATT]

pretty sure existing laws would hold them accountable.

Laws of which country?

And u said:

The Avengers should still be able to operate how they see fit.

 

[Master Zik]

The entirety of Endgame is now out on a low quality cam.

Don't actually post any links in here. This is just the spoiler thread not a lawless thread

 

[amitt5504]

I can wait 22 hours lol I’m ready but not desperate lol

 

[IATT]

Yea I’ll just wait it out.. reading the synopsis was good for me

 

[papichino]

Im gonna miss tony stank man, just like Chris Evans said his ending was satisfying Stank on the other hand...

Best part of the movie was him getting his closure from his dad and hugging him for real, rather than the BARF he worked for millions just like he'd feel something.

 

[|A-Man|]

This movie is great. Can't wait to see in true IMax.

 

[|A-Man|]

Im gonna miss tony stank man, just like Chris Evans said his ending was satisfying Stank on the other hand...

Best part of the movie was him getting his closure from his dad and hugging him for real, rather than the BARF he worked for millions just like he'd feel something.

Oh yeah, ppl went on and on speculating about BARF somehow playing a part in this

Tony went out like a G.

 

[hand2handking]

what happened to the thanos that snapped?

they found him in his house and did what with him?

 

[deleted]

what happened to the thanos that snapped?

they found him in his house and did what with him?

Thor chops his head off