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Solid win last night. 50 win season finally?
Washington Wizards 2016-2017 Season Thread - Thanks for a great season!
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by Methodical Management,
- Start date
INTLplayers
formerly xcg11pinoYx
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That would be a first in my lifetime. I'm hoping for a division win, but I'm trying to keep my expectations in check. They're still the Wizards. Injuries can change everything in a heartbeat.
It has been interesting to see the national recognition come on, however. Even when this team was a 4 seed, they were not getting this type of respect and national tv coverage. At this rate, perhaps the fans (and players) will do the right thing next season and vote Wall for All Star starter. It's kind of infuriating to see people are still out here voting for a delusional, anti-fact conspiracy theorist just because they see him on TV often. (And, incidentally: nice job, Duke.) Wall is the best point guard in the league right now.
The trade deadline is always a nervous time for Wizards fans. We obviously need bench help, but at what cost? Nobody's really out here looking for Andrew Nicholson or Ian Mahinmi. It's gonna cost you at least Oubre and/or a 1st rounder just to get somebody to take on one of those awful contracts, and, even then, that really only clears the way for Ernie to re-sign Otto - which, we should by now all agree, SHOULD have happened THIS summer, when he likely would've agreed to an extension for less than the max.
The Mahinmi deal was catastrophic. This team, if able to maintain its current trajectory, is one that could actually attract decent free agents now. We've lost that flexibility now, and the league could be entering a low growth phase, which would limit our opportunities beyond the MLE. You never spend just because you've got money burning a hole in your pocket.
For the future, I don't think we should be looking at any deal that will add net salary. Further, I'm not really convinced that the bench issues can be solved by bringing in a "designated bad shot taker."
One player, by themselves, won't create floor spacing for that second unit, and bench defense is just as much of an issue as bench scoring - if not more.
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Methodical Management
, I don't think Oubre will be in play during the deadline...And as far as Wall, I kind of laughed at the notion from @TheCollector earlier on that Wall was the best PG in the league. I had guys like Russ/Steph ahead of him (had Wall in the top-3, tho), but you guys are completely right. He is, right now, THE best PG in the NBA. He absolutely deserves to be in the MVP discussion. As he goes, so do the Wizards. Wall is close to being in his prime and seeing this team have a realistic shot at winning 50, contending for the East, etc. has been SO rewarding as a fan. I just hope that EG can pull a rabbit out of his hat at the deadline and do somethign to bolster the bench. If there is one thing that Grunfeld is good at, it's making deadline deals to save himself from himself. If that makes any sense
*edit*
This just showed up on BF a few minutes ago:
It's a Woj-bomb, so there's probably some truth in these rumors...
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Realistically, this year is not part of the Wizards' window of opportunity. We have the chance to take a big step forward with or without a mid-season trade. If the team plays to their potential, there's no reason why they can't reach the ECF - which is probably their ceiling either way, barring injuries (to their core players, or to those of their opposition.)@Methodical Management, I don't think Oubre will be in play during the deadline...And as far as Wall, I kind of laughed at the notion from @TheCollector earlier on that Wall was the best PG in the league. I had guys like Russ/Steph ahead of him (had Wall in the top-3, tho), but you guys are completely right. He is, right now, THE best PG in the NBA. He absolutely deserves to be in the MVP discussion. As he goes, so do the Wizards. Wall is close to being in his prime and seeing this team have a realistic shot at winning 50, contending for the East, etc. has been SO rewarding as a fan. I just hope that EG can pull a rabbit out of his hat at the deadline and do somethign to bolster the bench. If there is one thing that Grunfeld is good at, it's making deadline deals to save himself from himself. If that makes any sense
*edit*
This just showed up on BF a few minutes ago:It's a Woj-bomb, so there's probably some truth in these rumors...
In the John Wall era, the goal has always been to take over the conference during LeBron's decline. A couple of great months really hasn't changed that. Nor does it seem particularly reasonable to believe that the Wizards are a Lou Williams or Bojan Bogdanovic away from realistically competing against the eventual Western Conference Champion.
The worst case scenario, aside from injury, is to allow Ernie to complete another "job saving trade" that will make it financially impossible, with Tightwad Ted, to retain core talent and attract the types of veteran pieces required to vault the roster into true title contention.
A great season can make Washington a viable free agent destination, but only if the team has money to spend. Ring chasers willing to play for the veterans' minimum will still be better served to take the David West route. The Wizards would be better served to go after players who aren't in the twilight of their career, but are willing to take a little less to play for a contender. The bench won't get any better if we're stuck signing multiple undrafted, sub-NBA caliber players to minimum contracts.
If the cap fails to achieve substantial annual increases, rookie scale contracts will become increasingly important in allowing teams at or near the salary cap (like Washington) to effectively fill out a roster. Draft picks are notoriously unreliable. Just look at the history of #2 overall selections. They're far from a sure thing. That said, many - if not most - GMs remain biased by a player's draft selection, and pre-draft scouting reports. Historically, most first round picks will receive a second (or third) chance before they wash out. Look at Kwame Brown, and what he was able to bring back via trade. Washington even found a taker for Jan Vesely for crying out loud. A draft pick gives you an inexpensive young player with upside and, in most cases, a readily conveyable asset. It's a cheap date. An under-performing player on a rookie scale contract will often receive a second look from rival GMs who believe that player could achieve their potential if placed in a different system or situation. It's infinitely easier to sell a first round talent on a rookie scale contract, no matter what his production, than an overpaid veteran locked in to a multi-year deal.
I would be reluctant to trade a first rounder for a rental if it hurts the team's cap flexibility moving forward. To me, the only reason you part with that pick is to dump a bad contract, like the two undeniably AWFUL ones signed this summer.
I'm still convinced the Ernie needs to go. The core of this team is the result of ping pong balls, not shrewd foresight. Every team in the league would've taken Wall at #1. Beal may not have been a unanimous selection, but he would've been a consensus pick. Porter, likewise, was a no-brainer. He was considered #1 overall in many mock drafts, and Cleveland certainly wishes they'd taken him in hindsight.
Ernie often trades for players who play well against the Wizards. That's about the extent of his scouting. It seems like every year, Ernie takes out a new mortgage to refinance the previous one. Enough already. I'd rather have someone sober come in this summer and find a way out of these bad contracts on their own.
Since that won't happen, however, my only real hope with this inevitable 'job-saving' mid-season trade is that it at least unburdens us of Nicholson or Mahinmi. I'm not part of the "give him a chance" crowd. We've seen enough.
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gave up a first rounder for Bojan
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Thornton too.
INTLplayers
formerly xcg11pinoYx
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Thoughts
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I'll take it. Bogdanovic averages more points and rebounds than Thorton and Nicholson combined. Apparently this next draft is deep but given the youth of our core, and Oubre developing his game, I'm not mad at trading the 1st round pick. Its lottery protected so if the Wiz somehow take a nosedive the rest of the way we should at least get a decent prospect.
Sucks we missed out on Lou. Wasn't thrilled about trading for Shabazz. Though I'll admit I haven't exactly followed his career to date.
Sucks we missed out on Lou. Wasn't thrilled about trading for Shabazz. Though I'll admit I haven't exactly followed his career to date.
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This was another classic Ernie bail out trade. We give away a first round pick in one of the deepest drafts in recent memory - which, by the way, was all that it took for Houston, a team with a better record, to net Lou Williams - and the primary benefit of the trade was just to get us out from underneath a HORRENDOUS contract of Ernie's own creation.
For that reason alone, you have to be furious. This is yet another instance in which the Wizards' development has been hindered by a sub-par GM whose longevity defies reason.
The worst part is that now there's no realistic way to move Mahinmi - and his contract is, without hyperbole, the single biggest threat to the Wizards future. He's been a slow-footed, injury prone non-contributor who is indefensibly owed more per season than John freaking Wall. And now we've lost the one incentive that might have been used to entice a truly desperate rebuilding club to take on his contract.
You do not trade the #1 pick without dumping Mahinmi, period.
You added shooting to the second unit and offloaded a $6 million/season liability? Big deal. Mahinmi's cap burden is $16 million a year.
This move is not going to get you past Cleveland. After tomorrow, it may not get you past Boston.
There will be veteran players displaced by trades who will be waived in the coming days. You can get a contributor who wants to join a playoff-bound squad. Matt Barnes was cut loose by the Cousins trade, and while I have no real interest in seeing him join the Wizards, we're going to see other veterans hit the market.
We could've added shooting to the second unit without giving up the #1 pick. It's difficult to celebrate dumping Nicholson when you still have Mahinmi on the payroll and, perhaps worse, the imbecile who signed him.
They're still the Wizards, folks. And Wizards gonna Wiz.
For that reason alone, you have to be furious. This is yet another instance in which the Wizards' development has been hindered by a sub-par GM whose longevity defies reason.
The worst part is that now there's no realistic way to move Mahinmi - and his contract is, without hyperbole, the single biggest threat to the Wizards future. He's been a slow-footed, injury prone non-contributor who is indefensibly owed more per season than John freaking Wall. And now we've lost the one incentive that might have been used to entice a truly desperate rebuilding club to take on his contract.
You do not trade the #1 pick without dumping Mahinmi, period.
You added shooting to the second unit and offloaded a $6 million/season liability? Big deal. Mahinmi's cap burden is $16 million a year.
This move is not going to get you past Cleveland. After tomorrow, it may not get you past Boston.
There will be veteran players displaced by trades who will be waived in the coming days. You can get a contributor who wants to join a playoff-bound squad. Matt Barnes was cut loose by the Cousins trade, and while I have no real interest in seeing him join the Wizards, we're going to see other veterans hit the market.
We could've added shooting to the second unit without giving up the #1 pick. It's difficult to celebrate dumping Nicholson when you still have Mahinmi on the payroll and, perhaps worse, the imbecile who signed him.
They're still the Wizards, folks. And Wizards gonna Wiz.
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unloading Mahinmi was a pipe dream, no team in this league is dumb enough to take that contract so I'm not mad/surprised Ernie gave up a 1st rounder. I woulda preferred Lou Williams because Beal and Wall are logging way too many minutes but Bojan is a decent scorer which we desperately needed in the second unit.
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I'm most interested in McCollough. Late 1st round pick in 2015...dude is a long 6'9". With Brooks' penchant for player development, maybe they see something there that can be salvaged.
As far as Bojan goes, he'll immediately be our best scoring option off the bench. Losing the 1st in the process sucks, and I do wonder if the Wizards were bidding against themselves when giving up the pick. Since it's most likely going to be a late 1st rounder, I wonder if the 2nd round pick would have gotten it done?
However, I think that 2nd round pick will be packaged with Trey Burke later tonight or tomorrow.
Pretty much, Ernie saving himself from himself. We shouldn't be applauding him dumping Nicholson when he was the one who gave that awful deal. Unless Mahinmi turns it around, we'll probably be having this same discussion this time next year.
*edit*
Hold on...Bojan is a RFA? So not only do we lose our '17 1st round pick, but there's a chance our big mid-season trade walks as well? Ernie gotta go, bruh.
As far as Bojan goes, he'll immediately be our best scoring option off the bench. Losing the 1st in the process sucks, and I do wonder if the Wizards were bidding against themselves when giving up the pick. Since it's most likely going to be a late 1st rounder, I wonder if the 2nd round pick would have gotten it done?
However, I think that 2nd round pick will be packaged with Trey Burke later tonight or tomorrow.
Pretty much, Ernie saving himself from himself. We shouldn't be applauding him dumping Nicholson when he was the one who gave that awful deal. Unless Mahinmi turns it around, we'll probably be having this same discussion this time next year.
*edit*
Hold on...Bojan is a RFA? So not only do we lose our '17 1st round pick, but there's a chance our big mid-season trade walks as well? Ernie gotta go, bruh.
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I seriously hate this man.
This year isn't our year. We know it. But as lebron ages and the cavs get worse we have a window to step up with Wall and Beal and Otto rolling into their primes and Obre developing. If we kept the pick and drafted well (which is always an iffy situation anyway with our front office) we look at the window 2-3 years from now for a possible championship run. But i feel like this move just handcuffs us once again to mediocrity.
This year isn't our year. We know it. But as lebron ages and the cavs get worse we have a window to step up with Wall and Beal and Otto rolling into their primes and Obre developing. If we kept the pick and drafted well (which is always an iffy situation anyway with our front office) we look at the window 2-3 years from now for a possible championship run. But i feel like this move just handcuffs us once again to mediocrity.
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i'm not gonna jump off the roof about a draft pick in the 20's because history shows we're not good at finding talent. This trade frees up some space to keep Otto next season, the real problem is Mahinmi's deal. There is no way that was being moved this season, all we can do is hope he takes a big step next season as Gortat gets older
Ernie gon Ernie, there's no point in complaining about him anymore. We all know what he's done wrong and why he should have been fired years ago but all I care about is the guys on the floor right now. I'll worry about the future when the season is over
Ernie gon Ernie, there's no point in complaining about him anymore. We all know what he's done wrong and why he should have been fired years ago but all I care about is the guys on the floor right now. I'll worry about the future when the season is over
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Needed bench help, weren't gonna get it without moving that pick. Is what it is. Lou was who they wanted, Lakers chose to take the rockets deal because that's where Lou wanted to go. That's not in Ernie. He's trash but we've always known that. He didn't stand pat when there's an opportunity so can't be too upset about it. Heck, they may make another move today
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I don't think that's a real account.
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I'm pretty it's real.
Credible people follow the account.
Not to mention...who would be that dedicated to a fake Ernie Grunfeld twitter account for this long?
Credible people follow the account.
Not to mention...who would be that dedicated to a fake Ernie Grunfeld twitter account for this long?
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I dunno, man...400 followers and been on for 3 years. Not to mention, the account isn't verified.
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Seeing reports about the Wiz going after Chalmers :x Would much rather have DWill. Yes I'm still a believer and don't want him going to the Cavs.
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We all agree Ernie should have been fired years ago for a plethora of reasons. With that stated, did any one of you actually think Ernie would turn that pick into something decent? Possible...yes, but his track record shows more signs of inferiority than excellence.
I'm not ecstatic, but I'm not pulling my hair out over this deal. This doesn't even crack the Top 5 of Worst Ernie Blunders.
It will be nice to have some offense coming off the bench and a shooter other than Beal/Porter to stretch the defense.
I'm not ecstatic, but I'm not pulling my hair out over this deal. This doesn't even crack the Top 5 of Worst Ernie Blunders.
It will be nice to have some offense coming off the bench and a shooter other than Beal/Porter to stretch the defense.
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The Wizards have a poor draft history under Ernie if you exclude the "no brainer" selections made in the top 3. Everything else, especially Jan Vesely, is discouraging and I can appreciate why any Wizards fan wouldn't want to put faith in a late first rounder.
That said, the big issue here, for the future, is cap management. We don't want to keep fielding a roster that is 35% amateur. It's true that most teams wind up relying primarily on an 8 man rotation in the playoffs, but the best teams utilize their depth both to manage the regular season and the health of their starters, and to create situational versatility, in order to counter the different types of lineups they might face over the course of a playoff run. It's foolish to think that we only need 8 meaningful contributors, and the rest can be d-leaguers on minimum deals.
Bogdanovic is a free agent at the end of this year. Retain him, and, in all probability, your cap situation is no better off than it was with Nicholson - even if you replaced a non-contributor with a contributor. You would be returning the same basic team, but becoming a luxury tax payer in the process after maxing out Otto Porter.
That late first round pick would represent a significant cost savings over Bogdanovic, and could be conveyed for another asset.
It's easy to say "nobody in their right mind would take Mahinmi," but there ARE rebuilding teams out there who would take the Sixers' approach. A tanking team that needs to meet the salary floor might be enticed to take on Mahinmi in exchange for picks and young players with upside. (Burke, Sato, etc.)
I'd like to be proven wrong on Mahinmi. I was aghast at the value of his contract, but I'd hoped at the time that he could become the Wizards' starting center and could give us better rim protection and less pouting than Gortat - whose contract is very movable and could net the team a significant asset.
So far, however, Mahinmi has made Gortat untouchable in any trade discussions. Gortat's playing arguably his best basketball - certainly as a Wizard - and Mahinmi has been a liability.
Unless Brooks and the training staff can work a miracle, getting out from under the Mahinmi deal is far more important to the team's future success than band-aid Bojan.
I hope to enjoy this team and its playoff run while it lasts. It could very well be the most fun I have as a Wizards fan. (Watching MJ play here was always a bittersweet experience.)
I just can't help thinking that we're mortgaging our future for it by trading away a first round pick for what could be a short term rental on a third tier player.
That said, the big issue here, for the future, is cap management. We don't want to keep fielding a roster that is 35% amateur. It's true that most teams wind up relying primarily on an 8 man rotation in the playoffs, but the best teams utilize their depth both to manage the regular season and the health of their starters, and to create situational versatility, in order to counter the different types of lineups they might face over the course of a playoff run. It's foolish to think that we only need 8 meaningful contributors, and the rest can be d-leaguers on minimum deals.
Bogdanovic is a free agent at the end of this year. Retain him, and, in all probability, your cap situation is no better off than it was with Nicholson - even if you replaced a non-contributor with a contributor. You would be returning the same basic team, but becoming a luxury tax payer in the process after maxing out Otto Porter.
That late first round pick would represent a significant cost savings over Bogdanovic, and could be conveyed for another asset.
It's easy to say "nobody in their right mind would take Mahinmi," but there ARE rebuilding teams out there who would take the Sixers' approach. A tanking team that needs to meet the salary floor might be enticed to take on Mahinmi in exchange for picks and young players with upside. (Burke, Sato, etc.)
I'd like to be proven wrong on Mahinmi. I was aghast at the value of his contract, but I'd hoped at the time that he could become the Wizards' starting center and could give us better rim protection and less pouting than Gortat - whose contract is very movable and could net the team a significant asset.
So far, however, Mahinmi has made Gortat untouchable in any trade discussions. Gortat's playing arguably his best basketball - certainly as a Wizard - and Mahinmi has been a liability.
Unless Brooks and the training staff can work a miracle, getting out from under the Mahinmi deal is far more important to the team's future success than band-aid Bojan.
I hope to enjoy this team and its playoff run while it lasts. It could very well be the most fun I have as a Wizards fan. (Watching MJ play here was always a bittersweet experience.)
I just can't help thinking that we're mortgaging our future for it by trading away a first round pick for what could be a short term rental on a third tier player.
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Wizards got a good look at a rim protector tonight and it completely destroyed them offensively. Gortat and Morris looked pathetic against Gobert, thank God the Jazz aren't in the Eastern conference cuz they locked us all up
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