WELCOME TO THE MARVEL MULTIVERSE -*RIP STAN LEE & Boseman* - XMEN97 release 3/20

[Master Zik]

My wife gave it a solid 11 outta 10. lol

I'm giving it a koo 9/10. I'll have to watch it again and give it some time, but I still think TWS is still the best Marvel movie.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

We sat next to this really annoying couple who had to explain some of the plot details to his date cause I'm sure she hasn't seen Winter Soldier or Age of Ultron and didn't know some of the characters
 
I really enjoyed this portrayal of Zemo, surprisingly. It wasn't like a traditional villain who is out to take over the world or anything. My only problem with him, and probably the only problem I had with the movie, is it really left me wondering the ENTIRE movie what his motives were. Even after he reveals to them the fate of Tony's parents I was wondering "why is this guy doing this?". I may have missed something because of the annoying couple, so fill me in if I did miss something.
 
On the real, that Airport Hanger scene is probably one of the best CBM scenes of all time. Easily. :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x

Spoiler

Zemo revealed to BP in the end while Tony was fighting Cap and Bucky that his dad, wife, and children who didn't live in the city but countryside of Sokovia died in AoU. He told them they'd be safe cuz the fighting was in the city and got separated I guess when Ultron raised a huge part of the country in the air and the Avengers brought it crashing down. By the time he found them in the rubble his dad was holding his wife and kids in his arms and they were all dead. He swore revenge by making the Avengers crumble from within since he knew he couldn't kill them on his own.

After hearing all that T'Challa took off his mask and was like vengeance has consumed you, vengeance has consumed them, I will not let it consume me but I aint gonna let you die, the living are not done with you, you'll pay for your crimes blah blah.

If you missed that you're gonna have to watch the movie again man or at least the ending.

 

[IATT]

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Yea Zemo was pretty clear in the end what his motivations were. He never wanted the super soldiers. He just wanted the Avengers to fight each other. 'A regime that is toppled by the enemy can rise again, but one that crumbles from within can never heal.' Something like that.

That line by Zemo is scarily true and applies to a lot of communities in our society past and present.

External forces manipulate and create dissension from within, let people kill each other, and take over when it's all done

An external force can galvanize everyone against a common foe.. Hell just watch major pain, specifically talks about that

But it's like having a roommate, could be your best friend in the world.. But living with someone is a whole nother game

Check Tony's little comment about the coffee maker thing in the sink

 

[IATT]

'Lack of communication by Cap'

Spoiler

He tried to communicate. He tried telling Tony about Zemo at the airport and Tony didn't listen. Rhodes getting hurt is on Tony

You do realize how far down the path they were at that point right?

And maybe if cap at that very same point just told everyone come out.. Put down the weapons, let's talk this out

But no, dude ran.. He choose fighting over a conversation


As BP said "so why did you run?"

 

[Master Zik]

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Yea Zemo was pretty clear in the end what his motivations were. He never wanted the super soldiers. He just wanted the Avengers to fight each other. 'A regime that is toppled by the enemy can rise again, but one that crumbles from within can never heal.' Something like that.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Yea, I should have explained myself better...I understood what his motives were, but I wish I would have known what they were earlier in the movie rather than finding out at the very end when BP chokes him out   

Just a personal preference though. Maybe my views on this small nitpick will change over time.

On another note, I can't recall in any other film that I've seen where I clapped my hands together like when I did when AntMan changed to Giant Man   

Oh well I wasted a post

I can understand this complaint. They kept us in the dark there until the very end.

'Lack of communication by Cap'

Spoiler

He tried to communicate. He tried telling Tony about Zemo at the airport and Tony didn't listen. Rhodes getting hurt is on Tony

Nah, he didn't give a thought out argument for why he didn't sign the accords then after stopping Bucky from escaping, escaped with him. That was one weak *** try at the airport. Son was ready to fight once he heard about Wanda.

 

[everysingletime]

'Lack of communication by Cap'

Spoiler

He tried to communicate. He tried telling Tony about Zemo at the airport and Tony didn't listen. Rhodes getting hurt is on Tony

You do realize how far down the path they were at that point right?

And maybe if cap at that very same point just told everyone come out.. Put down the weapons, let's talk this out

But no, dude ran.. He choose fighting over a conversation


As BP said "so why did you run?"

First of all BP was asking Bucky that, not Cap

And it was fairly simple actually. The orders were shoot to kill, or shoot on sight, one of the two. What are you going to do, let someone kill you for something you didn't commit. Idk why they changed their mind and brought him in after the tunnel scene but the orders were shoot to kill. at BP asking him that when he himself had every intention to kill Bucky. That's like asking if you're innocent why are you trying to keep me from killing you?

 

[goldmember]

Only nipick

I thought it was very convinient for Zemo that IM showed up in the end. if the PLAN was to show the tape

What if something happen to IM at the airport? Or Cap for that matter? Will he just release the winter soldiers?

 

[IATT]

Uhh well first of all BP was asking Bucky that, not Cap

And it was fairly simple actually. The orders were shoot to kill. What are you going to do, let someone kill you for something you didn't commit. Idk why they changed their mind and brought him in after the tunnel scene but the orders were shoot to kill. at BP asking him that when he himself had every intention to kill Bucky.

Tony specifically went for the reason you mentioned, he was trying to save his friend.. Bring them in without anyone having to die

And I realize who BP said it too, I'm just applying the same thing to the whole situation and how cap reacted




He never tried actually talking with his supposed friend.. He just assumed, a lot

And it's that, that got them in them all alone..

Tony went there again, trying to get a peaceful resolution with/from his friend.. Again

 

[IATT]

Only nipick

I thought it was very convinient for Zemo that IM showed up in the end. if the PLAN was to show the tape

What if something happen to IM at the airport? Or Cap for that matter? Will he just release the winter soldiers?

I think he knew it would never get that far where someone would kill someone.. He just wanted emotions raised and people doing irrational things

He couldn't account for BP, for example

But he was sitting on pocket aces and just had to be patient.. Even if they went as a group.. Things would always be tinted when tony saw that

He had no clue how effective things would be, but he just need to get the snowball rolling in some form.. Things would be forever changed

 

[Master Zik]

The orders were not shoot to kill.

Why did so many of those soldiers try to fight Bucky hand to hand in his apt and the staircase scene? Yeah a few guys shot at them but they knew Cap had the shield and Bucky had his metal arm. Same for when the Avengers gave him the hands when he was brainwashed. There wasn't a whole lot of kill Bucky on sight rhetoric.

Even T'Challa wasn't trying to kill him in the chase scene or when he fought him out of his suit. He only tried at the airport cuz at that point it legit seemed like he was trying to help him flee.

 

[everysingletime]

Uhh well first of all BP was asking Bucky that, not Cap

And it was fairly simple actually. The orders were shoot to kill. What are you going to do, let someone kill you for something you didn't commit. Idk why they changed their mind and brought him in after the tunnel scene but the orders were shoot to kill. at BP asking him that when he himself had every intention to kill Bucky.

Tony specifically went for the reason you mentioned, he was trying to save his friend.. Bring them in without anyone having to die



Tony went there again, trying to get a peaceful resolution with/from his friend.. Again

If you're talking about the airport scene I think Cap would've let IM bring them in peacefully IF there was not already a more urgent situation in locating Zemo.

If you're talking anytime before that you can't fault Cap and Bucky for fleeing when they thought he was going to get shot on sight.

Not sure where you're confused.

 

[Master Zik]

Only nipick

I thought it was very convinient for Zemo that IM showed up in the end. if the PLAN was to show the tape

What if something happen to IM at the airport? Or Cap for that matter? Will he just release the winter soldiers?

I think he knew it would never get that far where someone would kill someone.. He just wanted emotions raised and people doing irrational things

He couldn't account for BP, for example

But he was sitting on pocket aces and just had to be patient.. Even if they went as a group.. Things would always be tinted when tony saw that

He had no clue how effective things would be, but he just need to get the snowball rolling in some form.. Things would be forever changed

Nah, if for some reason only Bucky showed up to stop Zemo and Tony went to get him, Tony would've killed him after that reveal. The only thing that would've helped Bucky is if Zemo said the command words again.

Also think he expected BP to kill him after he apologized.

 

[everysingletime]

The orders were not shoot to kill.

Why did so many of those soldiers try to fight Bucky hand to hand in his apt and the staircase scene? Yeah a few guys shot at them but they knew Cap had the shield and Bucky had his metal arm. Same for when the Avengers gave him the hands when he was brainwashed. There wasn't a whole lot of kill Bucky on sight rhetoric.

Even T'Challa wasn't trying to kill him in the chase scene or when he fought him out of his suit. He only tried at the airport cuz at that point it legit seemed like he was trying to help him flee.

Sharon clearly told Cap that orders were shoot to kill. Even if you don't believe that they were going to shoot Bucky, that's what Cap was told. Also Captain America 3 is not the only movie in existence where guns are involved and it comes down to hand to hand fighting.

TChalla clearly wanted Bucky dead. He told Natasha 'I'll kill myself.' When they were taken into custody he basically threatened Bucky's life again 'What makes you think you can keep your friend safe from me,' he told Cap.

 

[IATT]

If you're talking about the airport scene I think Cap would've let IM bring them in peacefully IF there was not already a more urgent situation in locating Zemo.

If you're talking anytime before that you can't fault Cap and Bucky for fleeing when they thought he was going to get shot on sight.

Not sure where you're confused.

Cap had zero reason to fear anyone from the avengers until... And obviously tony wasn't the one with crap to fear even then

For 3 movies, WS AOU & this, cap never tried actually putting his cards on the table with the people he called "friends" and ask for help

Cap had ample opportunity to contact tony or anyone else when he found out about the other WS and zemo.. Same way he contacted and trusted agent 13, well that could have worked for other folk too.. Like the ones who have risked their lives with him

Who could have died if not for that glove thing.. And still tried to end things peacefully






Tony got a warning of 36 hours and he wanted to be the one to do it in hopes of a peaceful resolution.. Even during the fight tony & co joke about how taking it easy is working out for them

 

[Master Zik]

The orders were not shoot to kill.

Why did so many of those soldiers try to fight Bucky hand to hand in his apt and the staircase scene? Yeah a few guys shot at them but they knew Cap had the shield and Bucky had his metal arm. Same for when the Avengers gave him the hands when he was brainwashed. There wasn't a whole lot of kill Bucky on sight rhetoric.

Even T'Challa wasn't trying to kill him in the chase scene or when he fought him out of his suit. He only tried at the airport cuz at that point it legit seemed like he was trying to help him flee.

Sharon clearly told Cap that orders were shoot to kill. Even if you don't believe that they were going to shoot Bucky, that's what Cap was told. Also Captain America 3 is not the only movie in existence where guns are involved and it comes down to hand to hand fighting.

TChalla clearly wanted Bucky dead. He told Natasha 'I'll kill myself.' When they were taken into custody he basically threatened Bucky's life again 'What makes you think you can keep your friend safe from me.'

Sharon was wrong. If it's shoot to kill its shoot first, keep shoting to make sure you kill. Replay that staircase scene should've been more like John Wick than DD.

BP said one thing and did another. He didn't attempt to kill Bucky once during the chase. If he was gonna kill him he would've when Bucky was held captive but he didn't. That only happened at the airport.

 

[ronaldcinho]

anyone know where I can watch the spider-man post credit scene? I only stayed for the mid credit scene. the people behind me were really pissing me off. 

 

[everysingletime]

TChalla is many things but he clearly wasn't going to kill Bucky in cold blood when he was in custody. Too many things can go wrong that way. Trying to do it at the airport was his next immediate opportunity.

And even if Sharon was wrong, that's what Cap believed. When people are coming at you with guns you're not gong to sit around and second guess what she said. Too many things happening too soon. You're just processing the soldiers. The guns. And the need to get to safety.

The soldiers came quickly too. Cap and Bucky had no way of knowing what their intentions were cuz they didn't even announce their presence with the 'come out with your hands up' bs. They just went straight to knocking down doors and windows.

 

[raider5]

 

Spoiler

Zemo revealed to BP in the end while Tony was fighting Cap and Bucky that his dad, wife, and children who didn't live in the city but countryside of Sokovia died in AoU. He told them they'd be safe cuz the fighting was in the city and got separated I guess when Ultron raised a huge part of the country in the air and the Avengers brought it crashing down. By the time he found them in the rubble his dad was holding his wife and kids in his arms and they were all dead. He swore revenge by making the Avengers crumble from within since he knew he couldn't kill them on his own.

After hearing all that T'Challa took off his mask and was like vengeance has consumed you, vengeance has consumed them, I will not let it consume me but I aint gonna let you die, the living are not done with you, you'll pay for your crimes blah blah.

If you missed that you're gonna have to watch the movie again man or at least the ending.

Won't let this post go to waste man 

T'Challa was amazing. Boseman killed it. Black Panther's story in itself was amazing from the beginning of the movie as a Prince supporting his Pops at the UN, to seeking revenge, to going full circle and realizing that avenging with death is not the answer. Not how a King of Wakanda should react 

 

[everysingletime]

Cap had ample opportunity to contact tony or anyone else when he found out about the other WS and zemo.. Same way he contacted and trusted agent 13, well that could have worked for other folk too.. Like the ones who have risked their lives with him

Even if Cap did contact Tony ahead of time would he have listened?

Lol Tony never listens.

 

[IATT]

Nah, if for some reason only Bucky showed up to stop Zemo and Tony went to get him, Tony would've killed him after that reveal. The only thing that would've helped Bucky is if Zemo said the command words again.

Also think he expected BP to kill him after he apologized.

I meant until that ace got dropped on tony.. Up until that point I don't think zemo expected anyone to want to kill

BP wasn't accounted for in the original plan.. But that was an added bonus for him considering who BP pointed the figure out

 

[raider5]

Edit: Nvm. I see you guys are already conversing about it. Wasted post for me now. lol

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

What would have Zemo had done if IM did not show up at the very end? That video would have had zero substance to showing it to Cap lol

 

[IATT]

Edit: Nvm. I see you guys are already conversing about it. Wasted post for me now. lol

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Worst case for zemo would have been backing himself in a corner and BP shows up..

But BP followed tony there



I guess if it's just cap and WS that show up, he tries closing the door that was behind the 2 and escaping.. And/or sending the info to tony somehow

Who knows how long it took to kill the other WSs maybe if he sees it's just cap and Bucky then he doesn't kill them.. And let's them loose on them

 

[Fresh Like Will]

I can't wait for Ant-Man and the Wasp! Ant-Man during the whole airport scene.

Paul Rudd even had me laughing at one of the corniest jokes in the movie. If not the corniest. When he's talking about Cap knowing other super powered people. "Thinks you for thanking of me."

 

[krazyrodzilla]

anyone know where I can watch the spider-man post credit scene? I only stayed for the mid credit scene. the people behind me were really pissing me off. 

its on YouTube, search it.

 

[Master Zik]

TChalla is many things but he clearly wasn't going to kill Bucky in cold blood when he was in custody. Too many things can go wrong that way. Trying to do it at the airport was his next immediate opportunity.

And even if Sharon was wrong, that's what Cap believed. When people are coming at you with guns you're not gong to sit around and second guess what she said. Too many things happening too soon. You're just processing the soldiers. The guns. And the need to get to safety.

The soldiers came quickly too. Cap and Bucky had no way of knowing what their intentions were cuz they didn't even announce their presence with the 'come out with your hands up' bs. They just went straight to knocking down doors and windows.

He's Captain America. All he had to do is say in a commanding voice when those dude's busted in the room I am arresting the Winter Soldier. I'm taking him in alive. Lets go. Instead of immediately fighting them. He could then whisper in his boo's ear trust me, I'll get to the bottom of this and clear your name. If Bucky was still memory foggy Cap could've just knocked his *** out which would prove even more he's on their side.

He didn't. He chose to be 3rd in a race, beat up soldiers serving their country after a terrorist attack, get a light washing by BP, and then gives up like he initially should've done

You buggin on BP, totally inflating the sense of danger from BP when his actions did not show he was trying to kill Bucky. Talking about killing in cold blood. T'Challa was looking to kill him as justice the whole time so he d give Bucky a fighting chance after he was captured but he didnt try at all. Even when Bucky was full on WS and trying to run.

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Zemo revealed to BP in the end while Tony was fighting Cap and Bucky that his dad, wife, and children who didn't live in the city but countryside of Sokovia died in AoU. He told them they'd be safe cuz the fighting was in the city and got separated I guess when Ultron raised a huge part of the country in the air and the Avengers brought it crashing down. By the time he found them in the rubble his dad was holding his wife and kids in his arms and they were all dead. He swore revenge by making the Avengers crumble from within since he knew he couldn't kill them on his own.

After hearing all that T'Challa took off his mask and was like vengeance has consumed you, vengeance has consumed them, I will not let it consume me but I aint gonna let you die, the living are not done with you, you'll pay for your crimes blah blah.


If you missed that you're gonna have to watch the movie again man or at least the ending.

Won't let this post go to waste man 

T'Challa was amazing. Boseman killed it. Black Panther's story in itself was amazing from the beginning of the movie as a Prince supporting his Pops at the UN, to seeking revenge, to going full circle and realizing that avenging with death is not the answer. Not how a King of Wakanda should react 

Word. He was amazing in this and got a mini movie with his portrayal the same way Tony did.

He came off the most badass in that end credit scene.

 

[kvsm23vs24]

Yea I guess it was a pretty big gamble to think captain and IM would both show up. Maybe he didn't think the airport fight would happen and IM would have listened to Cap when he was trying to explain about the WS's.

What how was tchalla not trying to kill Bucky? I thought it was clear he definitely wanted to kill him.