What is the real reason for reduction in quality materials?

[brendanmaguire]

Originally Posted by HWBurnz

It's pretty simple actually.

Lower quality materials cost less. Cheaper materials = cheaper production costs. If your production costs are lower, and your sales stay the same that equals a bigger profit.

As long as the shoes are selling... the quality won't get any better. And you really can't blame JB.

Pretty Much.

 

[retrojtino]

co-sign the majority. cheaper materials are, guess what? CHEAPER!!! The less money you spend on materials means more money in your pocket.

 

[adamfo85]

people will buy reguardless. Therefore jordan can sell crap and people will still buy. Its always about the $$$$$

 

[luckybomb1346]

profit profit profit. People will still buy the shoes, even if they complain about the quality.

 

[fc1114]

Originally Posted by 9 deuce gt

We all complain about it, but we never really get to the bottom of it. There must be a reason why they made the switch to a thinner leather. Most could point to the cheaper cost to build the shoe, but why would they tarnish the reputation of the current signature models?

Since you're on a shoe message board, it gives you the right to pretend you know about the shoe industry? Greatlogic.

 

[metallic]

Saves money, and everyone buys!

 

[aj27526]

on a smaller level, look at the eBay market. When demand and hype are high, shoes move no matter the price. Same thing with Jordan. So from their standpoint($) why spend more on quality if they can use cheap crap and turn a heavy profit?

look up how much the Jordan XX3 cost per pair to produce. (hint - a jackson should cover)

 

[9 deuce gt]

Originally Posted by fc1114

Since you're on a shoe message board, it gives you the right to pretend you know about the shoe industry? Great logic.

Care to elaborate on this statment?

 

[leronjames]

Originally Posted by Untitled

i say increase of cost of materials due too inflation....

Yeah, that's part of it for sure. I mean, you guys should all know what inflation is. If these Jordan's were $130 when they came out the first time10-20 years ago, how do you imagine they are still only $130 or so now? The materials did not stay the same price over all these years. Something had to goin order for JB to maintain their profits. Material quality was compromised to maintain the same MSRP on the sneakers. If they used high quality materials onevery pair, they'd be charging us $185-230 per pair for every retro that releases. With the cheaper materials, they can still give us the sneakers at$100-135 or so. Of course we're still talking about a huge profit for them, but when they've been making that profit all along, it's not like theycan just start making less money just to give us better materials. It doesn't work like that. If your profits decrease, it hurts your business, no matterhow much of a killing you're making to begin with.

 

[fc1114]

Originally Posted by 9 deuce gt

Originally Posted by fc1114

Since you're on a shoe message board, it gives you the right to pretend you know about the shoe industry? Great logic.

Care to elaborate on this statment?

^ Simple. You made statements (opinions) regarding specific shoes without qualifying your remarks by telling us how you are experienced inthe shoe industry (quality control, for example).
Regardless of that, just because someone purchases a lot of shoes, doesn't mean that person knows manufacturing/textiles/design. Thewhining, crying, and complaining continues; yet nothing changes.

 

[zageretokintaman]

Originally Posted by LeronJames

Originally Posted by Untitled

i say increase of cost of materials due too inflation....

Yeah, that's part of it for sure. I mean, you guys should all know what inflation is. If these Jordan's were $130 when they came out the first time 10-20 years ago, how do you imagine they are still only $130 or so now? The materials did not stay the same price over all these years. Something had to go in order for JB to maintain their profits. Material quality was compromised to maintain the same MSRP on the sneakers. If they used high quality materials on every pair, they'd be charging us $185-230 per pair for every retro that releases. With the cheaper materials, they can still give us the sneakers at $100-135 or so. Of course we're still talking about a huge profit for them, but when they've been making that profit all along, it's not like they can just start making less money just to give us better materials. It doesn't work like that. If your profits decrease, it hurts your business, no matter how much of a killing you're making to begin with.

I'am quite sure that you sleep on a pillow with the swoosh embroided on it ... so sad to be so naive ...

 

[9 deuce gt]

Originally Posted by fc1114

Originally Posted by 9 deuce gt

Originally Posted by fc1114

Since you're on a shoe message board, it gives you the right to pretend you know about the shoe industry? Great logic.

Care to elaborate on this statment?

^ Simple. You made statements (opinions) regarding specific shoes without qualifying your remarks by telling us how you are experienced in the shoe industry (quality control, for example).
Regardless of that, just because someone purchases a lot of shoes, doesn't mean that person knows manufacturing/textiles/design. The whining, crying, and complaining continues; yet nothing changes.

I must have hit a nerve here and hurt your feelings. I'm sorry. If you give me your address I will send you a box of Kleenex so you can wipe away the tears. Orbetter yet, since you seem to know everything about the show industry, why don't you enlighten us with your vast knowledge and explain why JB would decideto use pleather on their signature models. But before you answer, please be sure to list your accolades and shoe industryqualifications so we can make sure you have professional experience to back up your opinions. We don't want anyone giving their opinion on theinternet!

As far as not qualifying my statmetns, I do work in operations for a company in the manufacturing industry. And the process is the same in almostevery business. But i am asking specific questions regarding the shoe industry. I have had OG Jordans and some of the current retros. The quality of theleather is definetly regressing with cheaper/thinner material, and many of the other materials used to create these shoes is poor quality. I do not need towork in the shoe industry to know that. But obviously if i am the one asking the origianl question, I am looking to others for the answer. You know, fromexperts, like yourself.

 

[lrredsoxfan06]

Mo money, mo problems.

 

[9 deuce gt]

Originally Posted by LeronJames

If these Jordan's were $130 when they came out the first time 10-20 years ago, how do you imagine they are still only $130 or so now? The materials did not stay the same price over all these years. Material quality was compromised to maintain the same MSRP on the sneakers. If they used high quality materials on every pair, they'd be charging us $185-230 per pair for every retro that releases.

This is understood, but when these shoes came out, people knew they were paying the increased priced for a innovative, quality shoe that was on adifferent level than anything else on the market. Many people including myself would be more than willing to pay an increased price to get the same qualitythat the original releases had. This may not appeal to most of the buying public, but it would be paying for the "legacy" of what that particularshoe meant at the time of the original release. But that is the collector talking in me. I know it doesn't make good business sense.

I wish JB would start a program where the consumer could order the retro releases (only in the original colorways) in a higher quality for an increasedinflation adjusted price. Sort of like a make to order situation. I have know idea what that would cost, but if it was on a preorder basis, they would knowwhat they would need for materials and could cost them accordingly.

Wouldn't that be nice, no more release days waiting lines for these models. Haha.

 

[stevedensmore]

It's too bad they left their roots of making the highest quality products. As if it wasn't bad enough they pay kids pennies a day to construct them.

 

[fc1114]

Congrats to 9 deuce gt on his selfappointed license to complain (oops-should have put whine)

And btw, I'm not qualified in the 'SHOW' industry.

 

[zageretokintaman]

Originally Posted by 9 deuce gt

Originally Posted by LeronJames

If these Jordan's were $130 when they came out the first time 10-20 years ago, how do you imagine they are still only $130 or so now? The materials did not stay the same price over all these years. Material quality was compromised to maintain the same MSRP on the sneakers. If they used high quality materials on every pair, they'd be charging us $185-230 per pair for every retro that releases.

This is understood, but when these shoes came out, people knew they were paying the increased priced for a innovative, quality shoe that was on a different level than anything else on the market. Many people including myself would be more than willing to pay an increased price to get the same quality that the original releases had. This may not appeal to most of the buying public, but it would be paying for the "legacy" of what that particular shoe meant at the time of the original release. But that is the collector talking in me. I know it doesn't make good business sense.

I wish JB would start a program where the consumer could order the retro releases (only in the original colorways) in a higher quality for an increased inflation adjusted price. Sort of like a make to order situation. I have know idea what that would cost, but if it was on a preorder basis, they would know what they would need for materials and could cost them accordingly.

Wouldn't that be nice, no more release days waiting lines for these models. Haha.

I do think that the overall material quality is not the only problem, just like you said back in the 90's Jordans were innovative shoes andjustify a higher price, but know that all of the conception costs and investments has been repaid long time ago, how JB justify the actual price of retroes ...

 

[jredmond3]

CDP have def. been sort of shoddy. Honestly though it couldn't cost that much more to use better materials.

 

[hwburnz]

For people saying inflation plays a part..

What about Nike? We've seen the release of the Eggplant/Royal Foams... a ton of other Penny Retros... the Griffeys are coming out as well.

Personally, I don't own all of these, but it seems as though the quality is pretty on point. The heads in Nike Retro don't complain nearly as much aswe do.

So if Nike can use similar quality materials without jackin up the price... why can't JB?

 

[9 deuce gt]

Originally Posted by HWBurnz

So if Nike can use similar quality materials without jackin up the price... why can't JB?

Exactly. This has been my point the entire time. The retro Jordans and not using materials that are that much more "exotic" than the Nikes. So isthere another reason for using the materials they are using??

 

[tz85]

i don't care in some point as long as the color i like comes out but it would be nice to have a good quality shoe

 

[leronjames]

Originally Posted by HWBurnz

For people saying inflation plays a part..

What about Nike? We've seen the release of the Eggplant/Royal Foams... a ton of other Penny Retros... the Griffeys are coming out as well.

Personally, I don't own all of these, but it seems as though the quality is pretty on point. The heads in Nike Retro don't complain nearly as much as we do.

So if Nike can use similar quality materials without jackin up the price... why can't JB?

The quality is on point on Foams and Penny's (actually I've heard a lot of complaints about the quality of Penny II's) and the MSRP is $160-200,just like the XX3's. Plus, Jordan Brand thrives off of exclusivity. You're paying more money for the logo on Jordans. To the die-hards, the logodoesn't mean much when the quality isn't there to back it up, but unfortunately, the die hards don't make up the majority of the JB consumermarket.

 

[leronjames]

Originally Posted by zageretokintaman

Originally Posted by 9 deuce gt

Originally Posted by LeronJames

If these Jordan's were $130 when they came out the first time 10-20 years ago, how do you imagine they are still only $130 or so now? The materials did not stay the same price over all these years. Material quality was compromised to maintain the same MSRP on the sneakers. If they used high quality materials on every pair, they'd be charging us $185-230 per pair for every retro that releases.

This is understood, but when these shoes came out, people knew they were paying the increased priced for a innovative, quality shoe that was on a different level than anything else on the market. Many people including myself would be more than willing to pay an increased price to get the same quality that the original releases had. This may not appeal to most of the buying public, but it would be paying for the "legacy" of what that particular shoe meant at the time of the original release. But that is the collector talking in me. I know it doesn't make good business sense.

I wish JB would start a program where the consumer could order the retro releases (only in the original colorways) in a higher quality for an increased inflation adjusted price. Sort of like a make to order situation. I have know idea what that would cost, but if it was on a preorder basis, they would know what they would need for materials and could cost them accordingly.

Wouldn't that be nice, no more release days waiting lines for these models. Haha.

I do think that the overall material quality is not the only problem, just like you said back in the 90's Jordans were innovative shoes and justify a higher price, but know that all of the conception costs and investments has been repaid long time ago, how JB justify the actual price of retroes ...

Edit: temporarily banned forflaming. My point was not to endorse the practice of 1500% mark ups, but to expose the perspective of the brand. Also, the ideaof "paying the cost for innovation" is as much a gimmick as anything else. Do you actually believe that the research anddevelopment costs of those original Jordan models justified the over-the-top MSRP? You actually think that's what you were payingfor? Who's the naïve one again?



Look, like everybody else has said, it breaks down to one thing: profit. The typical Jordan Brand consumer is purchasing their products at a high retail price for one main reason: exclusivity. Exclusivity is a marketing scheme that costs JB little money at this point (the name alone sells itself), where as high quality products cost themsignificantly more money (which is why the products they make with high quality materials cost the consumer more money). If the brandcan get away with using lower cost materials on a highly exclusive product, they can still charge the same inflated MSRP as they did originally whilemaintaining the same - or better - profits. It's pretty simple, really. Like I said, I'm not saying Iride for this strategy, I'm just trying to add some perspective.

 

[zageretokintaman]

Originally Posted by LeronJames

Originally Posted by zageretokintaman

Originally Posted by 9 deuce gt

Originally Posted by LeronJames

If these Jordan's were $130 when they came out the first time 10-20 years ago, how do you imagine they are still only $130 or so now? The materials did not stay the same price over all these years. Material quality was compromised to maintain the same MSRP on the sneakers. If they used high quality materials on every pair, they'd be charging us $185-230 per pair for every retro that releases.

This is understood, but when these shoes came out, people knew they were paying the increased priced for a innovative, quality shoe that was on a different level than anything else on the market. Many people including myself would be more than willing to pay an increased price to get the same quality that the original releases had. This may not appeal to most of the buying public, but it would be paying for the "legacy" of what that particular shoe meant at the time of the original release. But that is the collector talking in me. I know it doesn't make good business sense.

I wish JB would start a program where the consumer could order the retro releases (only in the original colorways) in a higher quality for an increased inflation adjusted price. Sort of like a make to order situation. I have know idea what that would cost, but if it was on a preorder basis, they would know what they would need for materials and could cost them accordingly.

Wouldn't that be nice, no more release days waiting lines for these models. Haha.

I do think that the overall material quality is not the only problem, just like you said back in the 90's Jordans were innovative shoes and justify a higher price, but know that all of the conception costs and investments has been repaid long time ago, how JB justify the actual price of retroes ...

First of all, you can eat a richard for calling me "naive." Although, since it is coming from somebody who struggles to form a proper sentence, I won't take it to heart. I'm surprised you were able to use such an advanced word! Second, my point was not to endorse the practice of 1500% mark ups, but to expose the perspective of the brand. Also, the idea of "paying the cost for innovation" is as much a gimmick as anything else. Do you actually believe that the research and development costs of those original Jordan models justified the over-the-top MSRP? You actually think that's what you were paying for? Who's the naïve one again?

Look, like everybody else has said, it breaks down to one thing: profit. The typical Jordan Brand consumer is purchasing their products at a high retail price for one main reason: exclusivity. Exclusivity is a marketing scheme that costs JB little money at this point (the name alone sells itself), where as high quality products cost them significantly more money (which is why the products they make with high quality materials cost the consumer more money). If the brand can get away with using lower cost materials on a highly exclusive product, they can still charge the same inflated MSRP as they did originally while maintaining the same - or better - profits. It's pretty simple, really. Like I said, I'm not saying I ride for this strategy, I'm just trying to add some perspective.

Well, i won't discuss about the novel you just wrote (but i read it, of try to read it with my awfull english skills, and you got a serious point) justabout the : "Although, since it is coming from somebody who struggles to form a proper sentence", you should have noticed (if of course you took 20seconds to check my profile) that i'am not american nor even english born speaking but ... French, so next time let's try to speak in French and iwill be happy to check your level in my own language.

Anyway i was just saying that when the numered jays first came out, i think it was normal that the price was high compared to other ballin shoes, due to thehigher overall quality, that includes material but also (in my opinion, but i can be completely wrong) conception, and now i don't see how JB can justifythe retail price of retroes (of course from a pragmatic point of view), i was not talking about pure "hype".

And once again sorry for my bad english i'll make efforts to better express (shoud i say "spell", i ain't sure ...) myself, or bettersolution as the stupid froggy i'am, i should go back to a French forum and leave NT alone, i'll think about that ... Or maybe change my nickname to"Vladimir Koslov" ("I want better competition !" I love this guy ...) what do you think ?

 

[mjsaver]

simple... nothing , nothing is made up to the same standards as years ago. Cars,clothes,furniture,houses etc....
sneakers aren't exempt, hell even 25cent chips got smaller.... still a quarter though lol.