Whites Believe They Are Victims of Racism More Often Than Blacks

[harmito]

White privilege is so much deeper than just work and manual labor G..

We talking everyday life my dude ..

For example is there such thing as Driving While White?

Do store owners follow and harass white people to "hurry up and buy"?

Do people walk across the street or women clutch their purse when the average white person walks by?

Do police harass the average white male just for walking down that same street?

Or lets talk the disparity in prison? Or in arrest for similar crimes?

IS THE AVERAGE WHITE MALE CONSTANTLY DEMONIZED AROUND THE WORLD?

Just some examples.

At the end of the day the average white person never deals with the trials and tribulations of the everyday black man. The average white male has never had to deal with sort of similar racial discrimination EVER..

The average white man get preferential treatment everywhere simply cuz he's white.. ( well not you JChambers .. You ain't average G lol)

That's white privilege.. Wether you wanna admit it or not **** is facts , Folks can remain blind I they want and face the truth but it's still there.

Race relations in this country will not get better no time soon .. This playing field is not equal or kind of equal by no means .. It's very lopsided and always has been.

Idk know why this is still being disputed.

 

[-Red-]

Read books.

This cannot be stressed enough.

When this doesn't happen, you get people like Wawawowee who think they're "experts" on an issue like racial discrimination in the United States and have only their anecdotal experience with which to "support" their "arguments" and have no experience with or interest in actually exploring these issues in any systematic or intelligent manner...

 

[thecoldest343]

You are doing it in your post. You view all whites as privileged because of their skin. That doesn't reflect reality. The manual labor industry is controlled by upper class people, who hire workers for the cheapest rate that they can find, which is increasingly becoming migrant illegal aliens.. So if you were part of the 1%, you would also want to pay less taxes and hold on to your money? That's the pot calling the kettle black(or white, as the case may be).

Again this is an example of what happens in debates like this and I've said it before that sometimes to get somewhere productive you have to weed out the ******** and start from a stand point of nothing but the truth and move on to the facts.
I will admit that even sometimes I get drawn into the side stuff and it throws you off like a defence laywer does in a big case,that way it negates from whats really at hand.It will also show you that no matter how many facts you show or prove to people,some will think what they think no matter what is presented.But all you can do it state what is and isn't and let that be your first and final statement .

I will standby my very first statement that I made in this thread,and anything else can be debate at a later date and in another thread.Carry on....

 

[jchambers]

White privilege is so much deeper than just work and manual labor G..

We talking everyday life my dude ..

For example is there such thing as Driving While White?

Do store owners follow and harass white people to "hurry up and buy"?

Do people walk across the street or women clutch their purse when the average white person walks by?

Do police harass the average white male just for walking down that same street?

Or lets talk the disparity in prison? Or in arrest for similar crimes?

IS THE AVERAGE WHITE MALE CONSTANTLY DEMONIZED AROUND THE WORLD?

Just some examples.

At the end of the day the average white person never deals with the trials and tribulations of the everyday black man. The average white male has never had to deal with sort of similar racial discrimination EVER..

The average white man get preferential treatment everywhere simply cuz he's white.. ( well not you JChambers .. You ain't average G lol)

That's white privilege.. Wether you wanna admit it or not **** is facts , Folks can remain blind I they want and face the truth but it's still there.

Race relations in this country will not get better no time soon .. This playing field is not equal or kind of equal by no means .. It's very lopsided and always has been.

Idk know why this is still being disputed.

I still stand by my original post. In my opinion, when you say "all whites are privileged", you are making the same type of generalization as "all blacks are criminals." Sounds ridiculous and biased. I see a class and economic disparity that affects both whites and blacks in this country, that is overshadowed by generalizations and abstractions concerning race. I never said that racism doesn't exist, because surely it does, and it definitely has to be addressed, but it often becomes a distraction from other problems that affect most of us more directly. All of the white people who I know and consider privileged (not many), were born into rich families and guaranteed their economic status for life. A lot of the black folks I know who claimed to have been pulled over for "driving while black" were conveniently riding without insurance/tag/license plate too. I dispute the argument for white privilege because it can't be empirically proven in any way, and needs to be addressed on a case to case basis. The idea is most often used as a crutch and I truly find that it damages the egos and ambitions of a lot of young black men in this country; If you are told you will never be able to do something, and that the system is constantly against you no matter what, it is easy to give up without trying. Bottom line, If you came from the gutter, you need to get up, get out and get something and stop crying about how life is unfair, even if it is. I am sick of all of these race threads though, and that's the last I am going to speak on the subject here. Ya'll won't change my mind, and I won't change yours. I wish you all well and hope that no matter what your position in life, you treat everyone you encounter with common respect and courtesy. Peace.

 

[Methodical Management]

 I dispute the argument for white privilege because it can't be empirically proven in any way, and needs to be addressed on a case to case basis.

That's like saying there's no such thing as a male privilege or a heterosexual privilege in this country.  

I find it deeply ironic to claim that White privilege lets people of color off the hook, by providing an "excuse" for some purported lack of effort.  Denying the very existence of White privilege lets White people off the hook - period - by allowing them to claim that the ONLY people who benefit from racism are klansmen and other "active"/overt racists.  Talk about abrogating responsibility.  

It is downright offensive to claim that people use racism as an excuse to "never try" in life.  It's disclaiming racism while at the same time citing the "myth" of racism to perpetuate a racist stereotype (minority laziness.)  

Would you even dream of saying something like "sexism is just an excuse women use so they don't try hard to better themselves in life"?  

Everyone has personal cause to "work hard" to succeed in life.  Not everyone seems to have found a personal motive to "work hard" for social justice.  

What makes more sense:  that those who have the least in life collectively have the least interest in succeeding - or that those who passively benefit from social inequality collectively have the least interest in altering this system?  

 

[demarco]

i recently did a paper on white privilege, in the context of a novel. but along the way, i found this article written by a white lady coming to terms with her white privilege. in it, she lists the following as benefits of the privilege:

 1. I can, if I wish, arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

 2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area that I can afford and in which I would want to live.

 3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

 4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

 5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

 6. When I am told about our national heritage or about civilization, I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

 7. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

 8. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

 9. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods that fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.

 10. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

 11. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

 12. I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes or not answer letters without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.

 13. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

 14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

 15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

 16. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color, who constitute the worlds' majority, without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

 17. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

 18. I can be sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge" I will be facing a person of my race.

 19. If a traffic cop pulls me over, or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

 20. I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

 21. I can go home from most meetings or organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in rather than isolated, out of place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.

 22. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.

 23. I can choose public accommodations without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

 24. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help my race will not work against me.

 25. If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.

 26. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in flesh color that more or less matches my skin.
 

the reason white privilege is able to be widely ignored or not "empirically proven" as stated above, is because a majority of the benefits are psychological. it is psychologically empowering to be white in this country, regardless of your social class. when people have positive influence in their life, they discount its significance and credit it to their "hard work" and "doing the right thing" but it's never that simple.

 

[blkrstr21]

this whole thread has been alot of 

 and 

 

[jchambers]

Oh, I get it. It's ok to make broad sweeping racial generalizations about "white" people, but it's called racism or stereotyping when you make generalizations about any other race? All whites do not benefit from "white privilege" and it can't be proven that it even exists. Asians have the highest median household income in the United States. Does that mean that "Asian privilege" exists in this country?


View media item 340558

 

[big j 33]

The fact that you fail to recognize it is kind of the point.

 

[jchambers]

 I dispute the argument for white privilege because it can't be empirically proven in any way, and needs to be addressed on a case to case basis.

That's like saying there's no such thing as a male privilege or a heterosexual privilege in this country.  

I find it deeply ironic to claim that White privilege lets people of color off the hook, by providing an "excuse" for some purported lack of effort.  Denying the very existence of White privilege lets White people off the hook - period - by allowing them to claim that the ONLY people who benefit from racism are klansmen and other "active"/overt racists.  Talk about abrogating responsibility.  

It is downright offensive to claim that people use racism as an excuse to "never try" in life.  It's disclaiming racism while at the same time citing the "myth" of racism to perpetuate a racist stereotype (minority laziness.)  

Would you even dream of saying something like "sexism is just an excuse women use so they don't try hard to better themselves in life"?  



Everyone has personal cause to "work hard" to succeed in life.  Not everyone seems to have found a personal motive to "work hard" for social justice.  

What makes more sense:  that those who have the least in life collectively have the least interest in succeeding - or that those who passively benefit from social inequality collectively have the least interest in altering this system?  

I usually agree with you on racial matters, but not on this. White privilege is a stereotype in my opinion.So all white people should be "on the hook" because of the color of their skin? As I stated before, I never denied that racism exists, it certainly does in many different forms. But saying that all whites enjoy some sort of privileged status because of the color of their skin is ridiculous. It is a racist generalization. I don't agree with it and most whites from lower income communities are well aware that it doesn't apply to them. I did not mean that people use racism as an excuse to not succeed. I meant that it is damaging to the psyche of a young person to continually tell them that they can't succeed because the deck is stacked against them. I am not naive, I know that the system is set up in this country to keep people from rising out of their social class, there are many obstacles in attempting this. These obstacles exist for everyone though, not just black people.

 

[jchambers]

The fact that you fail to recognize it is kind of the point.

So when white people fail, it's because they didn't work hard enough, but if black people fail, it's because they aren't granted "white privilege"? It is hard to move out of a social class or income bracket in this country, no matter what race you are.

 

[big j 33]

White privilege exists.

That doesn't mean people of all races or colors don't experience issues and discrimination based on class or income.

 

[sir charles]

White privilege is a stereotype in my opinion.So all white people should be "on the hook" because of the color of their skin?

Stereotypical or not, it has a base to it. A white man and black man of equal status would not be looked at the same. If I put a black man in a store, and a white man in a store and told them to go walk down separate isles, no doubt the look at the black man first. It happens. It's unfair, and that is a Privelige that a white man got.

As I stated before, I never denied that racism exists, it certainly does in many different forms. But saying that all whites enjoy some sort of privileged status because of the color of their skin is ridiculous. It is a racist generalization. I don't agree with it and most whites from lower income communities are well aware that it doesn't apply to them.

Hmm, so these dont apply to people of any class?

White Privilege: The Perks
White people receive all kinds of perks as a function of their skin privilege. Consider the following:
• When I cut my finger and go to my school or office’s first aid kit, the flesh-colored band-aid generally matches my skin tone.
• When I stay in a hotel, the complimentary shampoo generally works with the texture of my hair.
• When I run to the store to buy pantyhose at the last minute, the ‘nude’ color generally appears nude on my legs.
• When I buy hair care products in a grocery store or drug store, my shampoos and conditioners are in the aisle and section labeled ‘hair care’ and not in a separate section for ‘ethnic products.’
• I can purchase travel size bottles of my hair care products at most grocery or drug stores.

It's not always a great privelage like the government giving every white person a mansion for being white, but there are bigger things than band-aides

White Privilege: The Advantages
Certainly, white privilege is not limited to perks like band aids and hair care products. The second function of white skin privilege is that it creates significant advantages for white people. There are scores of things that I, as a white person, generally do not encounter, have to deal with or even recognize. For example:
• My skin color does not work against me in terms of how people perceive my financial responsibility, style of dress, public speaking skills, or job performance.
• People do not assume that I got where I am professionally because of my race (or because of affirmative action programs).
• Store security personnel or law enforcement officers do not harass me, pull me over or follow me because of my race.

Things like this happen. Open your eyes and realize it and stop looking at it like it's wrong because its a stereotype. That it may be, but because it may sound wrong to you, does that mean that the fact that white people naturally have more benefits in the United States is not wrong in itself?

 

[Methodical Management]

But saying that all whites enjoy some sort of privileged status because of the color of their skin is ridiculous. It is a racist generalization. I don't agree with it and most whites from lower income communities are well aware that it doesn't apply to them. I did not mean that people use racism as an excuse to not succeed. I meant that it is damaging to the psyche of a young person to continually tell them that they can't succeed because the deck is stacked against them. I am not naive, I know that the system is set up in this country to keep people from rising out of their social class, there are many obstacles in attempting this. These obstacles exist for everyone though, not just black people.

You're conflating race with class, which is common among those with a post-racial or "colorblind" worldview.  Colorblindness is all fine and well when it comes to evaluating individuals, but not when it causes someone to be blind to the problems of color in our society.  

As Richard Delgado puts it in Rodrigo's Eleventh Chronicle:  Empathy and False Empathy, 

“false empathy is worse than none at all, worse than indifference.  It makes you over-confident, so that you can easily harm the intended beneficiary.  You are apt to be paternalistic, thinking you know what the other really wants or needs.  You can easily substitute your own goal for hers.  You visualize what you would want if you were she, when your experiences are radically different, and your needs, too.  You can end up thinking that race is no different from class, that blacks are just whites who happen not to have any money right now.  You can think that middle-class blacks or ones with professional degree have it made, need no solicitude or protection, when their situation is in some respects worse than that of the black who lives in an all-black, working-class neighborhood.”  

As for your claims about "Asian privilege", it's clear that you're not yet familiar with the history of US immigration law, or how the "Asian" pan-ethnicity conceals the struggles of specific immigrant groups, like Hmong and Lao-Americans, whose median income is around $38,000 - right on par with the number you posted for Latino Americans.  Read The Ethnic Myth by Stephen Steinberg. 

It's easy to ignore White privilege when you have it, and not so easy to ignore it if you don't.  White privilege, in many respects, is how people assume things are "supposed" to be.  

Watch this video, for example.  If John and Glen weren't being recorded, if they weren't deliberately placing themselves in identical situations, would he even stop to think that he's being treated differently?  Would he believe Glen's claims of discrimination if he didn't have video evidence - or would he just say, "well, maybe you just...."?  

 

[jchambers]

White privilege is a stereotype in my opinion.So all white people should be "on the hook" because of the color of their skin?

Stereotypical or not, it has a base to it. A white man and black man of equal status would not be looked at the same. If I put a black man in a store, and a white man in a store and told them to go walk down separate isles, no doubt the look at the black man first. It happens. It's unfair, and that is a Privelige that a white man got.

As I stated before, I never denied that racism exists, it certainly does in many different forms. But saying that all whites enjoy some sort of privileged status because of the color of their skin is ridiculous. It is a racist generalization. I don't agree with it and most whites from lower income communities are well aware that it doesn't apply to them.

Hmm, so these dont apply to people of any class?

White Privilege: The Perks
White people receive all kinds of perks as a function of their skin privilege. Consider the following:
• When I cut my finger and go to my school or office’s first aid kit, the flesh-colored band-aid generally matches my skin tone.
• When I stay in a hotel, the complimentary shampoo generally works with the texture of my hair.
• When I run to the store to buy pantyhose at the last minute, the ‘nude’ color generally appears nude on my legs.
• When I buy hair care products in a grocery store or drug store, my shampoos and conditioners are in the aisle and section labeled ‘hair care’ and not in a separate section for ‘ethnic products.’
• I can purchase travel size bottles of my hair care products at most grocery or drug stores.

It's not always a great privelage like the government giving every white person a mansion for being white, but there are bigger things than band-aides

White Privilege: The Advantages
Certainly, white privilege is not limited to perks like band aids and hair care products. The second function of white skin privilege is that it creates significant advantages for white people. There are scores of things that I, as a white person, generally do not encounter, have to deal with or even recognize. For example:
• My skin color does not work against me in terms of how people perceive my financial responsibility, style of dress, public speaking skills, or job performance.
• People do not assume that I got where I am professionally because of my race (or because of affirmative action programs).
• Store security personnel or law enforcement officers do not harass me, pull me over or follow me because of my race.

Things like this happen. Open your eyes and realize it and stop looking at it like it's wrong because its a stereotype. That it may be, but because it may sound wrong to you, does that mean that the fact that white people naturally have more benefits in the United States is not wrong in itself?

Yes, people of certain economic classes enjoy special privileges. No doubt. Are the majority of those people white? Possibly. Does that mean that all whites enjoy these privileges? Nope. Do rich people have more privileges in this country than poor people? Of course. That is not a race issue though, it is an economic one.


Stereotypical or not, it has a base to it. A white man and black man of equal status would not be looked at the same. If I put a black man in a store, and a white man in a store and told them to go walk down separate isles, no doubt the look at the black man first. It happens. It's unfair, and that is a Privelige that a white man got.

Too many "what ifs" for me. Can't be proven at all. I think if you put a black man with a nice suit on and a good haircut and a white man with long hair, dirty jeans and a Metallica t shirt on, the white guy would get the attention. If you put a white man in there with a suit on and a black guy with gold teeth and dreads, baggy shorts and a wifebeater, the black dude is getting the attention. All things equal? I guess that would depend on what store,who is running the store, what their personal experiences are, etc. Like I said, too many variables to be empirically proven. Needs to be taken on a case to case basis.


Things like this happen. Open your eyes and realize it and stop looking at it like it's wrong because its a stereotype. That it may be, but because it may sound wrong to you, does that mean that the fact that white people naturally have more benefits in the United States is not wrong in itself?


I won't concede that any stereotypes are real. I refuse to generalize people, because I know that there are too many variables and every situation is different.I don't believe in absolutes when it comes to human nature or social issues.

 

[sir charles]

Yes, people of certain economic classes enjoy special privileges. No doubt. Are the majority of those people white? Possibly. Does that mean that all whites enjoy these privileges? Nope. Do rich people have more privileges in this country than poor people? Of course. That is not a race issue though, it is an economic one.

You are mixing two different things here. Race =/= class. Two equal people, examples John and glen like me posted, who even grew up on the same economic class, and work together yet the white man gets all types of special treatments, and the black man gets shut out.

Open your eyes.

 

[obeahmyal7]

Meth, my man, you're doing yeomen's work.

JC, I appreciate your thoughts. But I find problematic you're commitment to "objectivity" and the alleged markers of "proof." Despite the scholarly attempts to view forms of social difference through the prism of intersectionality (race, class, gender), you have reproduced the obsolete assumption that "class and economic disparity" are more "real." How is racism a "distraction"? This statement betrays your assumption that more 'objective,' 'important' forms of social difference should be prioritized over race. You dogmatically belittle the experiences of those who, regardless of socio-economic status, feel as though race colonizes class. Let me guess, your response would be that these people suffer from "false consciousness"?

I would understand if this response stemmed from (neo)-Marxist ideological blinders. But "objectivity"? Really? Come one fam, you're better than that. Once again your recourse to class>race, usage of the false consciousness crutch, and search for that "noble dream" of objectivity either reveals your sociological dependence on so-called objective variables--income, occupation, education--at best, or a mid-20th century understanding of social relations, at worse. 

I appreciate the OutKast line, but you must ask, what is the quality of that "something"? What is the content of that "something"? What are the stakes involved in obtaining that "something"? Who has a head start in acquiring that "something"?

Ultimately, you're on the right track. I agree that the cries of "white privilege" obscure the heterogenaity of white's in the United States. As historian Barbara Fields once noted, "white supremacy" is in fact a slogan, one which ignores distinct political programs. As she correctly observed, free soilism and pro-slave ideologues might be seen as forms of "white supremacy" but obviously consist of different political economic visions. Similarly, if we don't move beyond the slogan of "white privilege," we miss the chance to interrogate and indeed prosecute those elite (the .08%) who just two weeks ago depended on the ECB to literally pillage the bank accounts of innocent working-class Cyrpiots. 

So what is "white privilege"? Thanks to the work of W.E.B. Du Bois, we have a solid understanding of white privilege under slavery. As Du Bois noted in Black Reconstruction, white privilege gave poor whites "work and some authority as overseer, slave driver, and member of the patrol system. But above and beyond this, it fed his vanity because it associated him with the masters. Slavery bred in the poor white a dislike of Negro toil of all sorts." The question is, to what extent are poor whites in contemporary America afforded dead-end jobs that anchor similar racial power relations? To what extent do other forms of social difference (gender, class, religion, status) continuously undercut the advantage derived from white skin? 

These are empirical questions that need not bifurcate race and class, class and gender. 

 

[frink85]

I want to add to the differentiation of Asians...

Chinese Americans and Japanese Americans have a long history in the us overcoming their own racism (Chinese exclusion act, etc) but many have been able to live "the American dream". Also it doesn't hurt that China and Japan are modern countries that export highly skilled labor.

Like meth said (I saw your movie last night btw, great stuff) Laotians and Cambodians and other SE Asian groups are relatively newer, and typically are less well off or in poverty. I can't remember a book I but the author talks about growing up in Long Beach in poverty, runnin with the cambodian gangbangers. And I live in that area, them dudes are still runnin things like that today. So that Asian median income stat is misleading.

That's all. We can now return to the oppression Olympics :\

 

[jchambers]

But saying that all whites enjoy some sort of privileged status because of the color of their skin is ridiculous. It is a racist generalization. I don't agree with it and most whites from lower income communities are well aware that it doesn't apply to them. I did not mean that people use racism as an excuse to not succeed. I meant that it is damaging to the psyche of a young person to continually tell them that they can't succeed because the deck is stacked against them. I am not naive, I know that the system is set up in this country to keep people from rising out of their social class, there are many obstacles in attempting this. These obstacles exist for everyone though, not just black people.

You're conflating race with class, which is common among those with a post-racial or "colorblind" worldview.  Colorblindness is all fine and well when it comes to evaluating individuals, but not when it causes someone to be blind to the problems of color in our society.  



As Richard Delgado puts it in Rodrigo's Eleventh Chronicle:  Empathy and False Empathy, 


“false empathy is worse than none at all, worse than indifference.  It makes you over-confident, so that you can easily harm the intended beneficiary.  You are apt to be paternalistic, thinking you know what the other really wants or needs.  You can easily substitute your own goal for hers.  You visualize what you would want if you were she, when your experiences are radically different, and your needs, too.  You can end up thinking that race is no different from class, that blacks are just whites who happen not to have any money right now.  You can think that middle-class blacks or ones with professional degree have it made, need no solicitude or protection, when their situation is in some respects worse than that of the black who lives in an all-black, working-class neighborhood.”  



As for your claims about "Asian privilege", it's clear that you're not yet familiar with the history of US immigration law, or how the "Asian" pan-ethnicity conceals the struggles of specific immigrant groups, like Hmong and Lao-Americans, whose median income is around $38,000 - right on par with the number you posted for Latino Americans.  Read The Ethnic Myth by Stephen Steinberg. 



It's easy to ignore White privilege when you have it, and not so easy to ignore it if you don't.  White privilege, in many respects, is how people assume things are "supposed" to be.  

Watch this video, for example.  If John and Glen weren't being recorded, if they weren't deliberately placing themselves in identical situations, would he even stop to think that he's being treated differently?  Would he believe Glen's claims of discrimination if he didn't have video evidence - or would he just say, "well, maybe you just...."?  

As for your claims about "Asian privilege", it's clear that you're not yet familiar with the history of US immigration law, or how the "Asian" pan-ethnicity conceals the struggles of specific immigrant groups, like Hmong and Lao-Americans, whose median income is around $38,000 - right on par with the number you posted for Latino Americans


So it is ok to place people of Russian, Slavic, Celtic, Germanic, Italian, Jewish, etc. into a generalized class known as "white", yet we must separate Hmong and Lao-American people from the class known as "Asian" when we are talking about income? Nice double standard there.

That video is foul. I won't deny that. Appears to be blatant racism. It is still one instance and an example of racist actions by certain people, one of whom is black (although is actions are immediately explained in the video with the excuse that "he has the same life lessons as the white salesman". Convenient. We also don't know what type of agenda the producers had. I remember back in my old apartments, I moved out and would come back to hang out. I started noticing that all the black folks were disappearing and being replaced by Burmese people. I asked my partners what was up, and they said that the landlords were slowly ending the leases of the black folks and moving the Burmese people in because they were receiving subsidies from the government. Is that an example of Asian privilege?



It's easy to ignore White privilege when you have it, and not so easy to ignore it if you don't. White privilege, in many respects, is how people assume things are "supposed" to be.


Same thing could be said of Asian privilege, which is an equally ridiculous concept in my eyes.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

I don't see how Meth can make multiple factual posts, hell even our own government acknowledges racial profiling exists, but y'all are REALLY on here saying white privilege isn't real.

When people start arguing straight up FACTS with their own personal believes is when I determine they must not want to learn and are hard pressed on remaining ignorant.

 

[jchambers]

Meth, my man, you're doing yeomen's work.

JC, I appreciate your thoughts. But I find problematic you're commitment to "objectivity" and the alleged markers of "proof." Despite the scholarly attempts to view forms of social difference through the prism of intersectionality (race, class, gender), you have reproduced the obsolete assumption that "class and economic disparity" are more "real." How is racism a "distraction"? This statement betrays your assumption that more 'objective,' 'important' forms of social difference should be prioritized over race. You dogmatically belittle the experiences of those who, regardless of socio-economic status, feel as though race colonizes class. Let me guess, your response would be that these people suffer from "false consciousness"?

I would understand if this response stemmed from (neo)-Marxist ideological blinders. But "objectivity"? Really? Come one fam, you're better than that. Once again your recourse to class>race, usage of the false consciousness crutch, and search for that "noble dream" of objectivity either reveals your sociological dependence on so-called objective variables--income, occupation, education--at best, or a mid-20th century understanding of social relations, at worse. 


I appreciate the OutKast line, but you must ask, what is the quality of that "something"? What is the content of that "something"? What are the stakes involved in obtaining that "something"? Who has a head start in acquiring that "something"?


Ultimately, you're on the right track. I agree that the cries of "white privilege" obscure the heterogenaity of white's in the United States. As historian Barbara Fields once noted, "white supremacy" is in fact a slogan, one which ignores distinct political programs. As she correctly observed, free soilism and pro-slave ideologues might be seen as forms of "white supremacy" but obviously consist of different political economic visions. Similarly, if we don't move beyond the slogan of "white privilege," we miss the chance to interrogate and indeed prosecute those elite (the .08%) who just two weeks ago depended on the ECB to literally pillage the bank accounts of innocent working-class Cyrpiots. 

So what is "white privilege"? Thanks to the work of W.E.B. Du Bois, we have a solid understanding of white privilege under slavery. As Du Bois noted in Black Reconstruction, white privilege gave poor whites "work and some authority as overseer, slave driver, and member of the patrol system. But above and beyond this, it fed his vanity because it associated him with the masters. Slavery bred in the poor white a dislike of Negro toil of all sorts." The question is, to what extent are poor whites in contemporary America afforded dead-end jobs that anchor similar racial power relations? To what extent do other forms of social difference (gender, class, religion, status) continuously undercut the advantage derived from white skin? 

These are empirical questions that need not bifurcate race and class, class and gender. 

Meth, my man, you're doing yeomen's work.

JC, I appreciate your thoughts. But I find problematic you're commitment to "objectivity" and the alleged markers of "proof." Despite the scholarly attempts to view forms of social difference through the prism of intersectionality (race, class, gender), you have reproduced the obsolete assumption that "class and economic disparity" are more "real." How is racism a "distraction"? This statement betrays your assumption that more 'objective,' 'important' forms of social difference should be prioritized over race. You dogmatically belittle the experiences of those who, regardless of socio-economic status, feel as though race colonizes class. Let me guess, your response would be that these people suffer from "false consciousness"?

I would understand if this response stemmed from (neo)-Marxist ideological blinders. But "objectivity"? Really? Come one fam, you're better than that. Once again your recourse to class>race, usage of the false consciousness crutch, and search for that "noble dream" of objectivity either reveals your sociological dependence on so-called objective variables--income, occupation, education--at best, or a mid-20th century understanding of social relations, at worse. 


I appreciate the OutKast line, but you must ask, what is the quality of that "something"? What is the content of that "something"? What are the stakes involved in obtaining that "something"? Who has a head start in acquiring that "something"?


Ultimately, you're on the right track. I agree that the cries of "white privilege" obscure the heterogenaity of white's in the United States. As historian Barbara Fields once noted, "white supremacy" is in fact a slogan, one which ignores distinct political programs. As she correctly observed, free soilism and pro-slave ideologues might be seen as forms of "white supremacy" but obviously consist of different political economic visions. Similarly, if we don't move beyond the slogan of "white privilege," we miss the chance to interrogate and indeed prosecute those elite (the .08%) who just two weeks ago depended on the ECB to literally pillage the bank accounts of innocent working-class Cyrpiots. 

So what is "white privilege"? Thanks to the work of W.E.B. Du Bois, we have a solid understanding of white privilege under slavery. As Du Bois noted in Black Reconstruction, white privilege gave poor whites "work and some authority as overseer, slave driver, and member of the patrol system. But above and beyond this, it fed his vanity because it associated him with the masters. Slavery bred in the poor white a dislike of Negro toil of all sorts." The question is, to what extent are poor whites in contemporary America afforded dead-end jobs that anchor similar racial power relations? To what extent do other forms of social difference (gender, class, religion, status) continuously undercut the advantage derived from white skin? 

These are empirical questions that need not bifurcate race and class, class and gender. 

Semantics and generalizations don't matter to me. They won't change our current social situations either. Slavery (at least in its previous form) has been over and the masters kicked the poor whites out of the house around the same time that they were forced to let the slaves go. Let's also not forget that most poor Southern whites were pauperized by the slave trade, which eliminated the master's need to use them as workers, but that's a whole other issue.



Similarly, if we don't move beyond the slogan of "white privilege," we miss the chance to interrogate and indeed prosecute those elite (the .08%) who just two weeks ago depended on the ECB to literally pillage the bank accounts of innocent working-class Cyrpiots.



Bingo. I know that it is fashionable and politically correct among many people in this country to demonize all whites with the belief that they have it made in the shade, but I think that it is better to celebrate our similarities, than our differences. We can never stand together to truly rectify the problems in this country if we keep believing that we will always be separated by race. The struggle is real in this country and we are all in it together, whether you wanna' admit it or not. I haven't seen a thread yet about the bailouts or crimes committed by international bankers and government officials in this country, but let a race thread pop up and everyone swarms and takes sides.I honestly believe that the idea of "white privilege" is propagated so frequently in the media because the powers that be want to keep poor whites and poor blacks separated and despising each other for their perceived differences.

 

[frink85]

East asians (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) are very different than southeast asians (Laotian, cambodian, etc) for many reasons. Similar to how eastern European are different than English/French/etc. I will say that "white" is a skewed umbrella term, but in the case of east Asians and SE Asians you can tell the difference visually: SE Asians are much more darker in skin tone (and a whole 'bother thread can be made about the effects of that)

Asian priviledge doesn't really exist though. The fact is prevalent view of the Asian is the harmless small effeminate man. Especially true back in the days of the migrant Asian farm worker, perceived to be doing "woman's work". Then you got the Charlie chan movies where the Asian male is portrayed as a bumbling blind idiot. Then to top it off, dumbass Jason Whitlock and his jeremy Lin comments. Actually to top it off, the model minority theory. Asians arent privileged in the same sense, you can actually consider them an afterthought, ignored. Basically not worth the trouble.

 

[jchambers]

I don't see how Meth can make multiple factual posts, hell even our own government acknowledges racial profiling exists, but y'all are REALLY on here saying white privilege isn't real.

When people start arguing straight up FACTS with their own personal believes is when I determine they must not want to learn and are hard pressed on remaining ignorant.

Quotes from a book and one video are straight up facts now? What do you want me to learn? That all whites have it made and are privileged? I have too many personal experiences that negate that "fact". How does it help society for me to believe that? I am colorblind and I'm not barrin' any of that. The poor white friends I know get treated like trash in this country, so do the black friends. I don't want to separate their experiences because I know that they are one and the same: The American experience, the failed myth of the American dream.

 

[Methodical Management]

So it is ok to place people of Russian, Slavic, Celtic, Germanic, Italian, Jewish, etc. into a generalized class known as "white", yet we must separate Hmong and Lao-American people from the class known as "Asian" when we are talking about income? Nice double standard there.

Do you not understand what "White" represents?  It is nothing if not a coalition.  Again, people considered "White" by contemporary standards were considered "swarthy" at the time of this country's founding.  They were "ethnic."

All it takes is a little historical perspective to understand how and why this changed.  I've already recommended an excellent book on the subject and I'd be more than happy to suggest others, if I suspected that there was any possibility of sincere interest on your part.  

If you're unwilling to spare more than five minutes to the matter, read this essay by James Baldwin: 

http://engl101-rothman.wikispaces.umb.edu/file/view/On+Being+White+and+Other+Lies.pdf

In 1790, the Census contained only three categories:  freed Whites, all other persons, and slaves.  

In both cases, understanding White privilege and contextualizing median income statistics among Asian Americans, you need some sort of basic grounding in history to appreciate how and why these trends came to be.  

White privilege literally kept poor Whites from achieving class consciousness and throwing in their lot with non-White laborers.  If you can't be bothered to actually read Du Bois, just google "public and psychological wage.'  Or pick up The Strange Career of Jim Crow by C. Vann Woodward.  That's short.  

Same thing could be said of Asian privilege, which is an equally ridiculous concept in my eyes.

The only thing ridiculous here is your supreme confidence in pure supposition and armchair observation as though either one can contradict, let alone contend with, decades and decades of rigorous academic work on the subject.  

It's like claiming that a heliocentric universe is "ridiculous" because you watch the sky every day and the sun, from your perspective, CLEARLY revolves around the Earth. 

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Quotes from a book and one video are straight up facts now? What do you want me to learn? That all whites have it made and are privileged? I have too many personal experiences that negate that "fact". How does it help society for me to believe that? I am colorblind and I'm not barrin' any of that. The poor white friends I know get treated like trash in this country, so do the black friends. I don't want to separate their experiences because I know that they are one and the same: The American experience, the failed myth of the American dream.

Here's what you're not getting and it's starting to make me think you're stupid. Yes some poor white people get treated badly, there's no denying that. But black people no matter what class or income level STILL get treated poorly. I was raised middle class, my parents have 5 degrees between the two of them and I grew up in a majority white suburb of DC. I was treated like crap by police, teachers, neighbors. I've been racially profiled a number of times, hell my 45+ y.o. MOTHER got racially profiled. My father has been called a n-word in the grocery store. I've never been a thug, done or sold drugs, or even been suspended from school, yet I constantly got treated like a criminal. Which is why I went to a HBCU and now live in a majority black/Hispanic area.

You're not gonna sit here and tell me a WHITE child with a similar background (class and income) would have to go through the same bull that I did. I don't wanna hear it. No matter how good of a black person you appear to be you WILL deal with racism. Which is something white people DON'T. Y'all only get treated poorly if you're A.) Poor or B.) Look like a drug addict. THAT is white privilege because no middle class and above white person EVER has to worry about being discriminated against. A middle or even upper class black person CAN'T say that.

If you can't understand the point I just made, screw it because obviously there's no helping you.