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nvm, i know what you mean. haha forgot about the collection vid.
Why does everyone hate GM,Ford, and Chrysler so much now a days?
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Great quality cars that are affordable have become very rare. And all have a high maintenance....
I mean with a Mercedes-Benz W123 you could easily do a million miles running on the cheapest diesel.
These cars were used in Germany, then sent to eastern-middle Europe, the to the Balkan and finally over to the middle east were they are still in use. Too bad that kind of quality isn't available anymore...
I mean with a Mercedes-Benz W123 you could easily do a million miles running on the cheapest diesel.
These cars were used in Germany, then sent to eastern-middle Europe, the to the Balkan and finally over to the middle east were they are still in use. Too bad that kind of quality isn't available anymore...
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2013 Fusion is MEAN
marinadelrey
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da public transportation
sillyputty
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Originally Posted by cguy610
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FORD. Fix Or Repair Daily. haha
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Originally Posted by Cyber Smoke
2013 Fusion is MEAN
Ford should drop the 3.5 retuned in it and stop playing.
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yea it was fantastic, they was buggin just leavin this model with all 4 cylinders....Originally Posted by Mangudai954
Originally Posted by Cyber Smoke
2013 Fusion is MEAN
Ford should drop the 3.5 retuned in it and stop playing.
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Chrysler got a bailout, idk why nobody likes ford but they own: land rover, aston martin, jaguar, lincoln so not everyone hates them
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the gt-r is not the best performance car at allOriginally Posted by cguy610
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fixed.
they sold all those brands a few years ago to a Indian brand.
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i think you dont understand the premise of the vette, it was never a sport/luxury car, it was always and still is a econo/sports car, the ZR1 is supposed to be awesome performance engineering, it was never supposed to be lux and for the performance it provides 100k brand new is not asking much at all, if you want a vette with an awesome interior then your asking to pay more, and yea people with high performance cars do that all the time haha, they just dont drive it everyday, not to mention what car doesnt have a plastic body now?
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o snap, but still, all the new models: range, vantage, jag, were all made while owned by ford
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I do get what the premise of the vette but no one said it had to be lux with plush alcantara and carbon fiber steering wheel but the interior could use some improvement. Other sports cars use carbon fiber in their interiors doesn't fall apart. A lot of cars like Toyota, Honda and Nissan use plastic but Chevy uses cheap plastic of their interiors. It's still a $100k car, I would expect the interior to be made much better with better materials. Again, look at the GTR, the interior isn't cheaply made. I ge tit, Zr1 is a beast but you are defending the poor quality or materials used just because it's fast? If i am driving it, I don't want rattling inside the car and things falling apart and paint inside peeling off in a year.
And umm, cars are made mostly of steel/sheet metal. Also, cars like R8 and Porsche use aluminum as a body since it's lighter. Others use carbon fiber. Check out the ZR1s body, it literally is plastic like the one used on Saturn. You put a bump it and the body pops back up, it's cheap plastic. It looks cheap and feels cheap.
And again, the thread is asking why a lot hate American cars and I am telling you why that is, cheap amterials. There is no denying American cars can go toe to toe with others for a fraction of a price these days but others managed to provide power and good quality material inside and outside the car. Look at the 3-series, it's the lass leader in handling and overall package but they manage to keep quality of materials up. Maybe, just maybe this is why American cars have a bad reputation, we condone what should be criticized instead of telling them to improve upon it. Don't defend the horrible quality and cheap materials of a $100k ZR1 just because it has a great engine and can kick !%+, you can praise it's performance and call it out for it's shortcomings.
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"cheap plastic" is subjective though...i mean seriously..you think i care 2 squats about "if i push da back fender it bends back" or i care about titanium rods, or da fact that im getting 638 horses.
its not da inside of kingdom, but to call this "cheap"?
its a sports car..not a prissy luxury car.
its not da inside of kingdom, but to call this "cheap"?
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i think you dont understand the premise of the vette, it was never a sport/luxury car, it was always and still is a econo/sports car, the ZR1 is supposed to be awesome performance engineering, it was never supposed to be lux and for the performance it provides 100k brand new is not asking much at all, if you want a vette with an awesome interior then your asking to pay more, and yea people with high performance cars do that all the time haha, they just dont drive it everyday, not to mention what car doesnt have a plastic body now?
I do get what the premise of the vette but no one said it had to be lux with plush alcantara and carbon fiber steering wheel but the interior could use some improvement. Other sports cars use carbon fiber in their interiors doesn't fall apart. A lot of cars like Toyota, Honda and Nissan use plastic but Chevy uses cheap plastic of their interiors. It's still a $100k car, I would expect the interior to be made much better with better materials. Again, look at the GTR, the interior isn't cheaply made. I ge tit, Zr1 is a beast but you are defending the poor quality or materials used just because it's fast? If i am driving it, I don't want rattling inside the car and things falling apart and paint inside peeling off in a year.
And umm, cars are made mostly of steel/sheet metal. Also, cars like R8 and Porsche use aluminum as a body since it's lighter. Others use carbon fiber. Check out the ZR1s body, it literally is plastic like the one used on Saturn. You put a bump it and the body pops back up, it's cheap plastic. It looks cheap and feels cheap.
And again, the thread is asking why a lot hate American cars and I am telling you why that is, cheap amterials. There is no denying American cars can go toe to toe with others for a fraction of a price these days but others managed to provide power and good quality material inside and outside the car. Look at the 3-series, it's the lass leader in handling and overall package but they manage to keep quality of materials up. Maybe, just maybe this is why American cars have a bad reputation, we condone what should be criticized instead of telling them to improve upon it. Don't defend the horrible quality and cheap materials of a $100k ZR1 just because it has a great engine and can kick !%+, you can praise it's performance and call it out for it's shortcomings.
im not defending that at all, im telling you what it is and meant to be, it was never a lux brand and its not trying to be, if you compare the vettes performance engineering to other brands they become less impressive, and then on top of that they WANT the average joe to be able to purchase it, you dont understand the engineering aspect of the ZR1 or even Z06 (which if you want to compare price points is equal to a gtr and whoops it) because if you did you wouldve realized that those cars are a serious deal, a 3 series starts at 35racks and a camaro starts at 26. . . . . lux vs economy line dude, you get what you pay for, the reason why GM, Ford, and Chrysler are hated is because theyve developed their brands to be for the avg person, while Asian competitors beat them at their own game with even whimpier cars and Euro competitors are in another game altogether, like comparing polo to american football, i totally agree with you about why those companies are "hated" but you're comparing apples to oranges with the vette and r8, and the z06, let alone the zr1, both murk the gtr
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Cheap plastic is not subjective. It's a fact. If a car pulls up with a plastic body and the other has aluminum, the aluminum is better. It's as simple as that. I really don't want to get into it with you again but damn that is all your saying, it has titanium rods and V8 amd all those horses. I admit, thing is great and a beast but I want a quality material to go along with that power. Why is that hard to understand? The R8s quality is great and even thou it cost more and it is not as good or as fast, but It sells more. Why is that? Same with the GTRs.
Trust me, if I am paying $90k for a GTR and everything is complete crap, I'd say it as it is too. You are making it sound like we are just looking for something to pick on but that isn't true. The thread is asking why American cars are hated, quality interior is one of those reason. Again, keep in mind the usual car buyer isn't buying ZR1s or GTRs, they're buying Focus, Corolla, Camry, Civics, etc... So to those buying $20k cars, all these things has to be better because not everyone is going to be drag racing.
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I don't know bout y'all..but I've bought American ever since I was a Sophmore in college..i like some foreign cars but I can't get enough of my Chevys
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im not defending that at all, im telling you what it is and meant to be, it was never a lux brand and its not trying to be, if you compare the vettes performance engineering to other brands they become less impressive, and then on top of that they WANT the average joe to be able to purchase it, you dont understand the engineering aspect of the ZR1 or even Z06 (which if you want to compare price points is equal to a gtr and whoops it) because if you did you wouldve realized that those cars are a serious deal, a 3 series starts at 35racks and a camaro starts at 26. . . . . lux vs economy line dude, you get what you pay for, the reason why GM, Ford, and Chrysler are hated is because theyve developed their brands to be for the avg person, while Asian competitors beat them at their own game with even whimpier cars and Euro competitors are in another game altogether, like comparing polo to american football, i totally agree with you about why those companies are "hated" but you're comparing apples to oranges with the vette and r8, and the z06, let alone the zr1, both murk the gtr
Good quality doesn't have to be luxury. Why dont you guys get that? Toyota and Honda make good quality interiors, outside of the Yaris, the materials used isn't that cheap. The paint isn't peeling off and the things aren't falling apart. Again, it doesn't have to be leather bound dash or suede seats, it just has to be made and built well. Simple as that. Have they gotten better in the past years? Yes! Do they have ways to go? Yes!
Again, I never said it has ot be lux. But come one, I've been in a Zr1, I've driven one and things were rattling and materials felt cheap. A Toyota Camry interior felt much better and solid. SO your telling me the ZR1 gets a pass on that? A $20k cars interior is better built on a $100k car? .
And no, the ZR1 doesn't "murk" the GTR, look at the numbers I posted a few pages back. They don't lie. And yes, I've admitted the ZR1 is great but again, I got into this argument because Ninjahood asked for a competitor with the Zr1. The GTR is $20k cheaper and theyve gone back and forth in number on the ring. The new GTR is faster on a straightway now and quality inside and out is better. How the hell can that not be a competitor?
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I have to agree w/ a lot of arguments about the quality of materials used and build. My Escape was crap internally and performance wise. My XL-7....They should pay me what I paid for it and give me another car of my choice.
The Toyotas and Nissans I've rented were a lot better in terms of quality of materials used on the interior.
The Toyotas and Nissans I've rented were a lot better in terms of quality of materials used on the interior.
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Originally Posted by ninjahood
"cheap plastic" is subjective though...i mean seriously..you think i care 2 squats about "if i push da back fender it bends back" or i care about titanium rods, or da fact that im getting 638 horses.
its not da inside of kingdom, but to call this "cheap"?its a sports car..not a prissy luxury car.
Bro. Have you been inside the Zr1? That piano black surface by the shifter is plastic. Look at the plastic on the dash, it already looks horrible on the pics, its clear on the left side of the steering wheel. Look at the 80's air condition vents, also all feel like cheap plastic. Knock on these things and you can tell it was made poorly, it feels hollow and now solid at all. You can already tell it'll fall apart shortly after you drive it off the lot.
Again, it doesn't have to be luxury as some will say again that it isn't suppose to be, but come on, put some effort in making it better. But you know what, these are thing difficult to explain. Go inside one and check for yourself. Park it next to a Camry or Accord to compare and you will say it feels cheap in comparison too.
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its da interior...you know how insignificant that part of da car is when you compare it to what da hell its meant for?
people who cop a corvette cop it go go fast and enjoy da drive, not give a rats $!% about a damn interior....why do you think da OG ZL1 camaro basically looked like a base model 69? because no one cared about
anything else besides da aluminum block making TONS of power...hell cats had radio DELETE options back in da day....
no better value then that ZR1...you're gonna complain about aluminum in when its 100hp slower, cost more to maintain, and its at least 50k sticker more?
there are folks that can care less about an "premium interior" hell i still dont give 2 craps about navi screens.
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I hear you RFX, thats the one thing i don't like about American cars, interior quality. Doesn't have to be luxurious by any means just a good quality feel to the materials. It's gotten immensely better compared to years past, another year or so i think they can be on the Japanese level of quality interior wise. If i was buying a regular everyday car interior is pretty high on my list considering i'm sitting in it and its all about ergonomics and the environment around me. If i was looking to spend 100k on a sports car not so much cause the reason i'm dropping cash like that is to go fast. Yeah you can have both by going with a GT-R but i'm not a big fan of all the computers in it and i think its ugly.
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Good quality doesn't have to be luxury. Why dont you guys get that? Toyota and Honda make good quality interiors, outside of the Yaris, the materials used isn't that cheap. The paint isn't peeling off and the things aren't falling apart. Again, it doesn't have to be leather bound dash or suede seats, it just has to be made and built well. Simple as that. Have they gotten better in the past years? Yes! Do they have ways to go? Yes!
Again, I never said it has ot be lux. But come one, I've been in a Zr1, I've driven one and things were rattling and materials felt cheap. A Toyota Camry interior felt much better and solid. SO your telling me the ZR1 gets a pass on that? A $20k cars interior is better built on a $100k car? .
And no, the ZR1 doesn't "murk" the GTR, look at the numbers I posted a few pages back. They don't lie. And yes, I've admitted the ZR1 is great but again, I got into this argument because Ninjahood asked for a competitor with the Zr1. The GTR is $20k cheaper and theyve gone back and forth in number on the ring. The new GTR is faster on a straightway now and quality inside and out is better. How the hell can that not be a competitor?
but youre the one comparing luxury brands to econo line brands. . . . and you must be smoking on somethin if you think a fusion interior is worse than a civics, the matierials are the same, same plastic, barely any metal, cloth interior, theres no plastic falling and paint chipping, you're reaching now, you cant compare the two cars, of course a camry is going to feel more solid, it doesnt experience the same g forces as a zr1's interior, its not better built at all, and forget about the zr1, the z06 does indeed murk the gtr both stock, the numbers you posted are just one of many cases/runs/tests
the zr1 is too strong for its parts, but since youre hung up on the 20k cheaper price tage, why dont you compare the z06? i brought it up like two quotes ago, why are you ignoring it? the z06 matches the gtrs price and is still a better performer
i know im off topic so ill stop here, but i definitely agree with your explanations about the gm/ford/chrysler hate
