Why does everyone hate GM,Ford, and Chrysler so much now a days?

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by ninjahood

"cheap plastic" is subjective though...i mean seriously..you think i care 2 squats about "if i push da back fender it bends back" or i care about titanium rods, or da fact that im getting 638 horses.

�I want a quality material to go along with that power. Why is that hard to understand? The R8s quality is great and even thou it cost more and it is not as good or as fast, but It sells more. Why is that? Same with the GTRs.

its da interior...you know how insignificant that part of da car is when you compare it to what da hell its meant for?

people who cop a corvette cop it go go fast and enjoy da drive, not give a rats $!% about a damn interior....why do you think da OG ZL1 camaro basically looked like a base model 69? because no one cared about

anything else besides da aluminum block making TONS of power...hell cats had radio DELETE options back in da day....





no better value then that ZR1...you're gonna complain about aluminum in when its 100hp slower, cost more to maintain, and its at least 50k sticker more?

there are folks that can care less about an "premium interior" hell i still dont give 2 craps about navi screens.

ummm, R8 starts at $115k. ZR1 starts at $110k.  I get it, you cream your pants for power but at least you admit the interior sucks. At this point, there really isn't else to say. All you want is power and you don't care foe anything else. That is fine. Perfectly FINE! But again, this is why American cars has a bad reputation, they build a great performance car but they couldn't spend a few more bucks to help them design the interior and use better quality. Ok you'll come back with "interior sucks, it more HP", again, ok that is fine. But you want to hear the fault of American cars, here is it because you continue to deny it because they give you more power for the buck and if they dont change that way of thinking, then they'll be back in the bottom of the sales chart again. Its funny you use a Top Gear vid to prove your point because they, including Clarkson, complain about the plastic body and quality on this car.

And you bring up maintenance? ZR1 engine is huge and it probably cost the same to maintain but you have a $110k car and you'd worry about maintenance cost?


Again, I am done, nothing else to say because you just simply do not get it. It's not hard to make the interior with better material/quality for a $110k car, it's a $110k car no matter how you look at it. I would rather spent $5k with 100 less hp and drive an R8. American cars have improved but quality of materials used can still improve, they provide great power for the money, I never argued that even though you keep bringing it up anyways that ends it on my side of the discussion.

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by slickp42189

but youre the one comparing luxury brands to econo line brands. . . . and you must be smoking on somethin if you think a fusion interior is worse than a civics, the matierials are the same, same plastic, barely any metal, cloth interior, theres no plastic falling and paint chipping, you're reaching now, you cant compare the two cars, of course a camry is going to feel more solid, it doesnt experience the same g forces as a zr1's interior, its not better built at all, and forget about the zr1, the z06 does indeed murk the gtr both stock, the numbers you posted are just one of many cases/runs/tests
the zr1 is too strong for its parts, but since youre hung up on the 20k cheaper price tage, why dont you compare the z06? i brought it up like two quotes ago, why are you ignoring it? the z06 matches the gtrs price and is still a better performer

i know im off topic so ill stop here, but i definitely agree with your explanations about the gm/ford/chrysler hate

That is BS, the ZR1 is too strong.

The car wasn't moving when I went inside it and the quality felt cheap. I was driving in the side street on legal speed limit and the interior felt fragile. Stop the BS of its so powerful the interior cant handle it, I've driven the ZR1 to about 100mph and the car isn't shaking or felt like its going to explode unless you hit rough roads. So I wouldn't put the fault on the cars overwhelming power. I've given you guys that its a track ready car and how great it is, but none of you would concede that quality is crap and for the price, the materials should be better?

I'm not ignoring the Z06, you want me to reply word for word while also having a discussion with Ninjahood who is just as stubborn? I'm also watching basketball games. But compare it to what though? The GTR? GTR is obviously faster and better (it needed sticky tires to beat it int he ring and GTR ran in wet condition). Quality is also obviously way better. Its starts at $75k, $15k cheaper with 505hp and you cant drive it on a daily basis because it'll break your spine, it's almost as rough on less than stellar roads than the ZR1. So I am not sure what you want me to say? For that price, I'll take the $65k CTS-V coupe with 550hp and can be driven daily and still feels luxurious.

I never said paint was dripping and Im the one exaggerating? The discussion you jumped into was the ZR1 in comparison to others. I used the 3series as an example not to compare with other econo cars, I used it because its the standard for its class w/o much compromise. I never said the 3-series is better than a Fusion or Malibu. You're the one comparing the Fusion to the Civic, the Fusions class is with the Accord and Camry and quality is better on both of those. I think the Focus and Civic & Corolla are the same in quality and those are in the same class but the Yaris quality is better than the Fiesta. So there, class for class on the cars I've been in and experienced first hand and what I think of the quality.

3-series isnt the best in the quality and interior, Audi and Lexus is better but 3-series isn't taking compromises, theirs is still good while retaining it's performance.

 

[jrdnsrnss]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by slickp42189

but youre the one comparing luxury brands to econo line brands. . . . and you must be smoking on somethin if you think a fusion interior is worse than a civics, the matierials are the same, same plastic, barely any metal, cloth interior, theres no plastic falling and paint chipping, you're reaching now, you cant compare the two cars, of course a camry is going to feel more solid, it doesnt experience the same g forces as a zr1's interior, its not better built at all, and forget about the zr1, the z06 does indeed murk the gtr both stock, the numbers you posted are just one of many cases/runs/tests
the zr1 is too strong for its parts, but since youre hung up on the 20k cheaper price tage, why dont you compare the z06? i brought it up like two quotes ago, why are you ignoring it? the z06 matches the gtrs price and is still a better performer

i know im off topic so ill stop here, but i definitely agree with your explanations about the gm/ford/chrysler hate

The GTR? GTR is obviously faster and better (it needed sticky tires to beat it int he ring and GTR ran in wet condition). Quality is also obviously way better. Its starts at $75k


GT-R isn't that cheap anymore, starts at $97k now. Only time it was that cheap was the year it launched and maybe the year after/

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by jrdnsrnss

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by slickp42189

but youre the one comparing luxury brands to econo line brands. . . . and you must be smoking on somethin if you think a fusion interior is worse than a civics, the matierials are the same, same plastic, barely any metal, cloth interior, theres no plastic falling and paint chipping, you're reaching now, you cant compare the two cars, of course a camry is going to feel more solid, it doesnt experience the same g forces as a zr1's interior, its not better built at all, and forget about the zr1, the z06 does indeed murk the gtr both stock, the numbers you posted are just one of many cases/runs/tests
the zr1 is too strong for its parts, but since youre hung up on the 20k cheaper price tage, why dont you compare the z06? i brought it up like two quotes ago, why are you ignoring it? the z06 matches the gtrs price and is still a better performer

i know im off topic so ill stop here, but i definitely agree with your explanations about the gm/ford/chrysler hate

The GTR? GTR is obviously faster and better (it needed sticky tires to beat it int he ring and GTR ran in wet condition). Quality is also obviously way better. Its starts at $75k

GT-R isn't that cheap anymore, starts at $97k now. Only time it was that cheap was the year it launched and maybe the year after/

I mean the Z06 starts at $75k, the car I am comparing the GTR to.

 

[41239]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by slickp42189

but youre the one comparing luxury brands to econo line brands. . . . and you must be smoking on somethin if you think a fusion interior is worse than a civics, the matierials are the same, same plastic, barely any metal, cloth interior, theres no plastic falling and paint chipping, you're reaching now, you cant compare the two cars, of course a camry is going to feel more solid, it doesnt experience the same g forces as a zr1's interior, its not better built at all, and forget about the zr1, the z06 does indeed murk the gtr both stock, the numbers you posted are just one of many cases/runs/tests
the zr1 is too strong for its parts, but since youre hung up on the 20k cheaper price tage, why dont you compare the z06? i brought it up like two quotes ago, why are you ignoring it? the z06 matches the gtrs price and is still a better performer

i know im off topic so ill stop here, but i definitely agree with your explanations about the gm/ford/chrysler hate

That is BS, the ZR1 is too strong.

The car wasn't moving when I went inside it and the quality felt cheap. I was driving in the side street on legal speed limit and the interior felt fragile. Stop the BS of its so powerful the interior cant handle it, I've driven the ZR1 to about 100mph and the car isn't shaking or felt like its going to explode unless you hit rough roads. So I wouldn't put the fault on the cars overwhelming power. I've given you guys that its a track ready car and how great it is, but none of you would concede that quality is crap and for the price, the materials should be better?

I'm not ignoring the Z06, you want me to reply word for word while also having a discussion with Ninjahood who is just as stubborn? I'm also watching basketball games. But compare it to what though? The GTR? GTR is obviously faster and better (it needed sticky tires to beat it int he ring and GTR ran in wet condition). Quality is also obviously way better. Its starts at $75k, $15k cheaper with 505hp and you cant drive it on a daily basis because it'll break your spine, it's almost as rough on less than stellar roads than the ZR1. So I am not sure what you want me to say? For that price, I'll take the $65k CTS-V coupe with 550hp and can be driven daily and still feels luxurious.

I never said paint was dripping and Im the one exaggerating? The discussion you jumped into was the ZR1 in comparison to others. I used the 3series as an example not to compare with other econo cars, I used it because its the standard for its class w/o much compromise. I never said the 3-series is better than a Fusion or Malibu. You're the one comparing the Fusion to the Civic, the Fusions class is with the Accord and Camry and quality is better on both of those. I think the Focus and Civic & Corolla are the same in quality and those are in the same class but the Yaris quality is better than the Fiesta. So there, class for class on the cars I've been in and experienced first hand and what I think of the quality.

3-series isnt the best in the quality and interior, Audi and Lexus is better but 3-series isn't taking compromises, theirs is still good while retaining it's performance.


no its a fair price for the engineering
yea those run flats on the z06 are ridiculous, the gtr is a beast, but saying it needed sticky tires is like having usain bolt run in timberlands and then when he switches to spikes saying "he needed track cleats to win the race" , and a cts-v to a z06, again lux vs econo brand comparison

The paint isn't peeling off and the things aren't falling apart. 

it kinda sounded like you implied american cars as having interiors with peeling paint and things falling apart
and come on, a grocery getter is a grocery getter, an Accord or Camry are not crushin a Fusion with their stellar interior quality so theres not much of an argument, and yea the zr1 is better than the viper and gtr when its all said and done so idk what would be the standard for that sector, please dont compare another lux brand like porsche

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by slickp42189

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by slickp42189

but youre the one comparing luxury brands to econo line brands. . . . and you must be smoking on somethin if you think a fusion interior is worse than a civics, the matierials are the same, same plastic, barely any metal, cloth interior, theres no plastic falling and paint chipping, you're reaching now, you cant compare the two cars, of course a camry is going to feel more solid, it doesnt experience the same g forces as a zr1's interior, its not better built at all, and forget about the zr1, the z06 does indeed murk the gtr both stock, the numbers you posted are just one of many cases/runs/tests
the zr1 is too strong for its parts, but since youre hung up on the 20k cheaper price tage, why dont you compare the z06? i brought it up like two quotes ago, why are you ignoring it? the z06 matches the gtrs price and is still a better performer

i know im off topic so ill stop here, but i definitely agree with your explanations about the gm/ford/chrysler hate

That is BS, the ZR1 is too strong.

The car wasn't moving when I went inside it and the quality felt cheap. I was driving in the side street on legal speed limit and the interior felt fragile. Stop the BS of its so powerful the interior cant handle it, I've driven the ZR1 to about 100mph and the car isn't shaking or felt like its going to explode unless you hit rough roads. So I wouldn't put the fault on the cars overwhelming power. I've given you guys that its a track ready car and how great it is, but none of you would concede that quality is crap and for the price, the materials should be better?

I'm not ignoring the Z06, you want me to reply word for word while also having a discussion with Ninjahood who is just as stubborn? I'm also watching basketball games. But compare it to what though? The GTR? GTR is obviously faster and better (it needed sticky tires to beat it int he ring and GTR ran in wet condition). Quality is also obviously way better. Its starts at $75k, $15k cheaper with 505hp and you cant drive it on a daily basis because it'll break your spine, it's almost as rough on less than stellar roads than the ZR1. So I am not sure what you want me to say? For that price, I'll take the $65k CTS-V coupe with 550hp and can be driven daily and still feels luxurious.

I never said paint was dripping and Im the one exaggerating? The discussion you jumped into was the ZR1 in comparison to others. I used the 3series as an example not to compare with other econo cars, I used it because its the standard for its class w/o much compromise. I never said the 3-series is better than a Fusion or Malibu. You're the one comparing the Fusion to the Civic, the Fusions class is with the Accord and Camry and quality is better on both of those. I think the Focus and Civic & Corolla are the same in quality and those are in the same class but the Yaris quality is better than the Fiesta. So there, class for class on the cars I've been in and experienced first hand and what I think of the quality.

3-series isnt the best in the quality and interior, Audi and Lexus is better but 3-series isn't taking compromises, theirs is still good while retaining it's performance.

no its a fair price for the engineering
yea those run flats on the z06 are ridiculous, the gtr is a beast, but saying it needed sticky tires is like having usain bolt run in timberlands and then when he switches to spikes saying "he needed track cleats to win the race" , and a cts-v to a z06, again lux vs econo brand comparison

Not at all, here's what I posted earlier. It's very clear. The ZR1 with stock tires is slower than the 2011 GTR in semi-wet conditions but faster than the 2009. The new 2013 GTR also goes to 0-60 in 2.9 seconds while the ZR1 is recorded at 3.3-3.5 seconds. It'll probably be tied if the ZR1 had sticky tires. Again, I've said before that the ZR1 is faster and better in most cases but the GTR is definitely a competitor to the ZR1 for a cheaper price w/o sacrificing the interior and it's actually drivable on a daily basis. This is all the factual data we can use, any other is just guesses.

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by slickp42189

The paint isn't peeling off and the things aren't falling apart. 

and come on, a grocery getter is a grocery getter, an Accord or Camry are not crushin a Fusion with their stellar interior quality so theres not much of an argument, and yea the zr1 is better than the viper and gtr when its all said and done so idk what would be the standard for that sector, please dont compare another lux brand like porsche


I've seen 1-2 year old American car that had faded paint on the interior, not exterior. The numbers on the radio are practically gone. My brother has a 10 year old Matrix and he's interior isn't as bad.

As for the standard when it comes to the interior of these super cars, we can't be sure because the price points are too wide but one thing is for sure, Zr1s interior and body is in the bottom. Porsches quality is right there on the top, they just use topnotch materials but with a  price to match. R8 honestly seems like a good standard. Quality is good, body is made of aluminum, CF are on parts of the car with a good amount of standard features. It may not beat the ZR1 but it's not slow either, not even close and starting at $5k more than the ZR1.

 

[hyetothesky]

crap cars

 

[41239]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by slickp42189

The paint isn't peeling off and the things aren't falling apart. 

and come on, a grocery getter is a grocery getter, an Accord or Camry are not crushin a Fusion with their stellar interior quality so theres not much of an argument, and yea the zr1 is better than the viper and gtr when its all said and done so idk what would be the standard for that sector, please dont compare another lux brand like porsche

I've seen 1-2 year old American car that had faded paint on the interior, not exterior. The numbers on the radio are practically gone. My brother has a 10 year old Matrix and he's interior isn't as bad.

As for the standard when it comes to the interior of these super cars, we can't be sure because the price points are too wide but one thing is for sure, Zr1s interior and body is in the bottom. Porsches quality is right there on the top, they just use topnotch materials but with a  price to match. R8 honestly seems like a good standard. Quality is good, body is made of aluminum, CF are on parts of the car with a good amount of standard features. It may not beat the ZR1 but it's not slow either, not even close and starting at $5k more than the ZR1.

i wasnt talking about the exterior
lmao, i said to try NOT to compare a lux brand to a econo brand, but price to match? i think you just shot yourself in the foot, a 991S is the same price as a zr1 and gets outperformed in everything, so if you want a zr1 with an awesome interior be prepared to pay as much as a gt2 (200k +), the r8 cant be the standard seeing as its a PERFORMANCE car thats outperformed, performance first man, then you can talk about the better or worse interiors

 

[wohcttank]

This may be the worst argument in nt history.

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by slickp42189

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by slickp42189



it kinda sounded like you implied american cars as having interiors with peeling paint and things falling apart

and come on, a grocery getter is a grocery getter, an Accord or Camry are not crushin a Fusion with their stellar interior quality so theres not much of an argument, and yea the zr1 is better than the viper and gtr when its all said and done so idk what would be the standard for that sector, please dont compare another lux brand like porsche

I've seen 1-2 year old American car that had faded paint on the interior, not exterior. The numbers on the radio are practically gone. My brother has a 10 year old Matrix and he's interior isn't as bad.

As for the standard when it comes to the interior of these super cars, we can't be sure because the price points are too wide but one thing is for sure, Zr1s interior and body is in the bottom. Porsches quality is right there on the top, they just use topnotch materials but with a  price to match. R8 honestly seems like a good standard. Quality is good, body is made of aluminum, CF are on parts of the car with a good amount of standard features. It may not beat the ZR1 but it's not slow either, not even close and starting at $5k more than the ZR1.

i wasnt talking about the exterior
lmao, i said to try NOT to compare a lux brand to a econo brand, but price to match? i think you just shot yourself in the foot, a 991S is the same price as a zr1 and gets outperformed in everything, so if you want a zr1 with an awesome interior be prepared to pay as much as a gt2 (200k +), the r8 cant be the standard seeing as its a PERFORMANCE car thats outperformed, performance first man, then you can talk about the better or worse interiors

What? It's like anything I say gets turned around and never take for what it is.

It's like you aren't reading man. I never say make the ZR1 luxurious, just better materials. Hell they can match the Camry quality and all will be good, it's not going to cost an extra $50k to do that. And your saying if I want a ZR1 with luxury to pay $200k? Again, please read what I write carefully. I never said it has to be luxurious, just good enough. ZR1s interior is in the bottom of the totem pole. Another point, no don't take it as comparing luxury to econo boxes because apparently you will if I don't say this disclaimer. But the Cadillac CTSV is luxurious enough, is it on par with Porsche? No but it provides much better quality, 550 hp for $65k. Put that interior, charge $5k-$10k more and the ZR1 will be golden, it doesn't have to cost $200k. Again, the Porsche and R8 & Porsche iareluxurious so they charge more for less power and performance but ZR1 doesn't have ot be on that level. The interior doesn't have to be hand crafted, it can be mass produced but just use better materials. Is that clear for gods sake?

Again, example, 2013 GT F'in R! It's $97K now, ok only $13k cheaper than $20k for the 2012. Quality is better all over, inside and out. It is now faster in 0-60 than the ZR1 and likely beat it in the ring too, eventually since it continually gets more HP. I think the ZR1 has been the same since the beginning. ZR1 just needs to be on the same level of materials and quality as a GTR and it'll be the best car out there. GTR can do it for $97k, why can't the ZR1?

When I said the R8 should be the standard, I didn't mean it's the best, just what is good value and overall. $115k, great materials and no slouch on the track. The ZR1 is the best in performance, it's the peak. Is Jordan the standard? No, it is the best and you can't say it's the standard, it's on the top and what is meant to be beaten but it still lacks that finishing touch. I called the 3-series a standard for it class (again for it's class, not comparing to the ZR1 or econo boxes, just another disclaimer). The 3 series wasn't the fastest but it handles great. it doesn't have the best interior but it's still plenty good. It provides great driving dynamics w/o sacrificing anything. Why can't the ZR1 be that? Not asking to be luxurious, just better plastic materials.

Ok. All I am saying is the ZR1 is f'in great. It is amazing on the track. But it's a $110k car with an interior or a cheap econo box, even worse at times. Made of cheap plastic both inside and out. It has back breaking suspension for everyday driving. GTR is it's competition and getting better by the year while still being cheaper. That is all. Take it however you want but anything beyond those statement is just reaching.

Anyways, I give up. It seems like no one understand what I am saying here.

I say one thing and it's taken in a different context to make another point. I realized I said that before but the one before meant done discussing with ninjahood, this time it's with slickp.

 

[mangudai954]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

"cheap plastic" is subjective though...i mean seriously..you think i care 2 squats about "if i push da back fender it bends back" or i care about titanium rods, or da fact that im getting 638 horses.

its not da inside of kingdom, but to call this "cheap"?

its a sports car..not a prissy luxury car.

Yea. But it looks dated.

 

[cw0974]

corvette is fast with heavy torque, but look at the inside... I can't see myself getting in that car knowing I paid 50k+ for plastic.

 

[trdrav4]

I can understand the hatred for "American" cars for those that hold on to the view that the cars are the same as the 80s, when they were absolutely horrid, and when the Japanese cars held up and thus, sold very well. Since NT seems to be very Asian in demographics, the bias towards Japanese cars is also apparent. I am Asian and drive a Toyota (the stereotype), however, I try to be as non-bias when it comes to cars because I prefer to be an enthusiast rather just than a diehard JDM fanboy person. I have a Corolla, and am very disappointed with the way the current one is. My first car was a RAV4 (built in Japan, hence my SN), and it was solid and got me to love the brand. While yeah, it is reliable blah blah blah, it fell behind the competition. Toyota lost its way and just focused on appliances. It wasn't until recently when the company had to wake up, besides the fiasco with the pedals and what not, that it didn't have any cars that people desired, until cars like the LFA and the upcoming FRS were finally brought out to bring back the enthusiasts, as no one will ever say that old school Toyotas never offered everyone a car to want (Why did the Supra, Celica, MR2 disappear? The bean counters killed them).

From a So Cal perspective, Asians seem to buy cars with the perception that Japanese is always the best (but would love to drive a Euro because of the "image" thing that we Asians are so conscious about), but a knowledgable person will go out and try all the cars first before making a decision. Yes, there are things Japanese are still the best in (resale, maintenance), but they can be pretty boring (How many here have parents that drive a Camry?). Latins in California (Mexican majority), have different tastes in vehicles, and so they would have a lot less bias than us Asians towards American vehicles, which is why I'll see many rolling in SUVs and Chargers/300s. Anyways, different cars for different folks.