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Cool seeing VC, T-Mac , & Oakley taking it back
ââ 2012 NBA Finals ââ The King has been crowned; Heat win 2012 NBA Finals! Bron Finals MVP.
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by allen3xis,
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Shaq was the best player in the world only one time. That was when he one that scoring title. (2000, I believe).
Kobe is still the best player in the world. The guy has a bum knee & wrist and is still droppin' 48 on dem' boys
+
+
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Kobe killer instinct is what puts him over LeBron still. Plus, he has a post and mid-range game.
Kobe is still the best player in the world. The guy has a bum knee & wrist and is still droppin' 48 on dem' boys
Kobe killer instinct is what puts him over LeBron still. Plus, he has a post and mid-range game.
BTW, Rubio man, he actually does look so much like Nash out there. I admit, I did not expect a damn thing from the kid, but he's doin it out there.
Him, Love, and D-Will is a nice trio, they gave their pick to LA, now N.O., does Minny have someone else's pick? Can they add a nice piece to these 3 in the draft this year?
Him, Love, and D-Will is a nice trio, they gave their pick to LA, now N.O., does Minny have someone else's pick? Can they add a nice piece to these 3 in the draft this year?
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Shaq was the most dominant player for a much longer period of time than being the best player. I think everyone is in agreement he had all the tools to be the best but rarely cared enough to reach that level. He has four rings, but he was swept out of the playoffs six times, and that happened throughout his career, not just early on.
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It's been mentioned on here before but I never really liked ranking players overall for the exact reasons mentioned. Different things are expected out of different positions. How does one say that Kobe was better than Shaq...or vice versa? How does one say Magic was better than Kareem or vice versa?
Positional rankings make MUCH more sense. But if you wanna argue about "greatest"...that's when prestige and numbers factor in.
Positional rankings make MUCH more sense. But if you wanna argue about "greatest"...that's when prestige and numbers factor in.
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Originally Posted by DipsetGeneral
Shaq was the best player in the world only one time. That was when he one that scoring title. (2000, I believe).
Kobe is still the best player in the world. The guy has a bum knee & wrist and is still droppin' 48 on dem' boys++.
Kobe killer instinct is what puts him over LeBron still. Plus, he has a post and mid-range game.
STOP IT!
You're going to piss a lot of people off who thought Kobe was done.
Especially Lebron fans who thought he was CLEARLY the best player in the world and is still pulling his usual disappearing act.
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Kobe Bryant is slightly above league average in clutch situations
Him being a "clutch performer" is a facade and you guys have been falling for it for years.
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Evan (St. Paul)
Is the Rookie of the year Rubio's to lose?
Chad Ford (1:32 PM)
At this point yes. Weird fact. If Rubio wins ROY, he'll be the third player from the draft class of 2009 to do. That's got to be some sort of record. Tyreke Evans in 2010, Blake Griffin in 2011,
Is the Rookie of the year Rubio's to lose?
Chad Ford (1:32 PM)
At this point yes. Weird fact. If Rubio wins ROY, he'll be the third player from the draft class of 2009 to do. That's got to be some sort of record. Tyreke Evans in 2010, Blake Griffin in 2011,
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So by this definition, you rank someone like David Robinson higher than his actual game play suggests because of his all-around talent?Originally Posted by CP1708
Well, it's different for Centers imo. I define "best" in the game by doing any and everything. Ballhandling, dribbling, board, pass, score, post, shoot, range, all of it. Total package type stuff.
That's why to me I never put Shaq, or Dwight, etc as the "best". I think the most Dominant part comes into play with those guys, if that makes sense.
To me, wings are the only ones that can do everything on the court, unless you are Magic and a freak anomaly.
Guys like Iverson, or Paul or Nash aren't posting up or snatching rebounds etc.
Magic, Bird, Mike, Kobe, Tmac, Bron, Wade, those guys can and do all that stuff. I would include Dirk as well, he's similar to Bird in his overall game/skill.
And for a minute, KG made quite a strong push. His skill was undeniable, and he could guard 1-5, handle a lil bit, pass, board, score from 20 ft in, he was freakish, but uh, never saw a shot he couldn't pass up in the balance of the game. So, deduct points we shall.
If so, I can't get on board with that.
D
Deleted member 38182
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Bummer only one of them can say that they are in the same class as Lebron, Jordan, and Roberston
I'm just messing so F off
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Melo being clutch sure helped him against the Lakers in the playoffs. As I recall, Kobe was clutch that series and killed the Nuggets.
He also man handled the Knicks on his own two weeks ago. Nothing to do with being clutch, but just wanted to piss a few Knick fans off.
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Shaq's 2000 resume:
- 30, 14 and 4 with 3 blocks a game
- 67 win team
- MVP
- Scoring title
- Finals MVP (38 and 17 over 6 games)
- 2nd Team All Defense
I'm inclined to believe he was 'best' and most 'dominant' in that time period over guys like Grant Hill and 4th year Kobe even if he couldn't make a shot outside of 8 feet.
- 30, 14 and 4 with 3 blocks a game
- 67 win team
- MVP
- Scoring title
- Finals MVP (38 and 17 over 6 games)
- 2nd Team All Defense
I'm inclined to believe he was 'best' and most 'dominant' in that time period over guys like Grant Hill and 4th year Kobe even if he couldn't make a shot outside of 8 feet.
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Originally Posted by rck2sactown
Bummer only one of them can say that they are in the same class as Lebron, Jordan, and Roberston
I'm just messing so F off
xsalvioutlawx wrote:
He also man handled the Knicks on his own two weeks ago. Nothing to do with being clutch, but just wanted to piss a few Knick fans off.
and that's the best you could do?
D
Deleted member 38182
Guest
Originally Posted by MrONegative
Originally Posted by rck2sactown
Bummer only one of them can say that they are in the same class as Lebron, Jordan, and Roberston
I'm just messing so F off
Yaaa you know what it is
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Yea, Olajuwon used to abused the crap out of Shaq until Olajuwon's skills started to decline.
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I miss Yao Ming.......
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Originally Posted by xsalvioutlawx
Melo being clutch sure helped him against the Lakers in the playoffs. As I recall, Kobe was clutch that series and killed the Nuggets.
He also man handled the Knicks on his own two weeks ago. Nothing to do with being clutch, but just wanted to piss a few Knick fans off.
Okay and your point is ?
Still doesn't change the fact that in his career Kobe has missed 70% of the shots he takes to tie or win a game in clutch situations
Lebron James is also more clutch than Kobe Bryant.
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Don't you get it? You have to judge LeBron by the exact same criteria used to judge someone like Kobe or Carmelo. Kevin Durant's beyond mediocre playmaking ability? Doesn't matter. He's better in late-game situations when his number is called. That's all that matters. Shaq couldnt have been the best then. That's not consistent. But of course this is all ridiculous.
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MrONegative wrote:
xsalvioutlawx wrote:
He also man handled the Knicks on his own two weeks ago. Nothing to do with being clutch, but just wanted to piss a few Knick fans off.
and that's the best you could do?
No way.
Lake Shore Drive
formerly slp product
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Damn!
I didn't even realize that til now.
Rubio is the clear cut winner right now.
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Well, as far as LeBron, maybe I've been trying to say this the wrong way. I feel like he's the most talented dude in the NBA without a doubt, but if you're giving me a choice of who I'm going to pick to try and win this season, it's been Kobe for a long time for me, ever since Shaq fell out of shape. I totally agree with what you say about LeBron CP late in games. He has the ability to get anywhere on the court for three quarters, then in the fourth he either disappears or becomes a perimeter player, and if you play DECENT Defense on him, you'll be okay. Wade is far more dangerous in the fourth. Even when LeBron killed the Bulls/Celtic's last year, he was shooting well.
Most of Dirk's big plays last year were his money spots, either backing down Haslem or getting his easy mid-range jumpers. LeBron doesn't go to his bread and butter at the end of games, he tries to make hero-shots like he did in Orlando against Turkoglu. If you make them, great, but if you have the ability to get to the paint, why don't you?
Most of Dirk's big plays last year were his money spots, either backing down Haslem or getting his easy mid-range jumpers. LeBron doesn't go to his bread and butter at the end of games, he tries to make hero-shots like he did in Orlando against Turkoglu. If you make them, great, but if you have the ability to get to the paint, why don't you?
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Wolves need more games on TV, sucks league pass free preview is over
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Originally Posted by Scott Frost
I miss Yao Ming.......
Me too... Is he still in the states or did he move back to the main land permanently?
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Slightly above average? I'm not disagreeing with you at all, but a couple things you should consider:
- Kobe's reputation as a clutch player does not necessarily mean he hits every clutch shot. I think the volume of clutch shots he's hit (I read somewhere that he already has more game winners that Jordan in his career) + the difficulty (we all know Kobe loves taking tough shots, love him or hate him) is what drives this idea of Kobe being clutch.
- Your assertion that he's 'slightly above league average' has to be taken into context. Just because he shoots at a lower % on clutch shots than say Melo, Dirk, LeBron does not mean that Kobe is slightly above average league-wide.
- Clutch stats are tough because not every player in the league takes them; it's a very, very limited sample size. With that being said, surely there are players today and in history who have made 'clutch' shots (again, how do we even define clutch) at a higher clip than Bean. But his body of clutch work (Regular Season, Playoffs, Finals, Olympics) cannot be ignored. Plus isn't the reputation of being clutch important too?
- Using your own logic, can you tell me what Reggie, Larry, MJ's, Jerry West, etc. 'clutch' FG % was? I feel like Kobe gets scrutinized more than any other player, for better or worse.
- As a Kobe fan, I have definitely seen Kobe struggle in the clutch and obviously hit some shots that players can't hit in their sleep (1 footed bank 3 over Wade ). But even with Kobe's banged up wrist/finger/knee/ankle/etc I'll take him, Durant, Melo, or Dirk over anyone in the league.
- Try to name 15 players, hell even 10 players that you'd take over Bean in a clutch situation in the last decade then by my guest. Just know that current players, coaches, GMs, majority of fans, and history have agreed that Kobe is the most clutch player in the last decade (today's stats might show Dirk near the top due to his playoff performance but again, Kobe has been clutch over over a decade now).
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Originally Posted by Cyber Smoke
Originally Posted by xsalvioutlawx
Melo being clutch sure helped him against the Lakers in the playoffs. As I recall, Kobe was clutch that series and killed the Nuggets.
He also man handled the Knicks on his own two weeks ago. Nothing to do with being clutch, but just wanted to piss a few Knick fans off.
Okay and your point is ?
Still doesn't change the fact that in his career Kobe has missed 70% of the shots he takes to tie or win a game in clutch situations
Lebron James is also more clutch than Kobe Bryant.
You know dudes are reaching, you can ask any player in the NBA whose more clutch Kobe or Lebron and the answer will be unanimous.
Ask your boy Spike whose more clutch and see what he says.
