☠TERMINATOR | SALVATION☠ 5/21/2009 - IN THEATERS NOW!

Just saw it and didn't know anything that was going on.
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First time ever watching anything Terminator. Action scenes were
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though.
 
As some of you may already know, Bale signed on to do TS on the condition that massive changes be made to the script.

And as many of you know by now, TS came in well below studio expectations (a good 15-20 million below). Billed as one of the biggest movies of the summer andarmed with a friendly PG-13 rating, the film didn't even finish number 1 at the box office this past weekend. Even with the Thursday head-start, TSstill lost to Night At The Museum.
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Anyhow, here's a really good article on what changes were made. It's a very long read, but worth it if you're a huge Terminator fan or ifyou're just curious to know why this film seemed so disjointed.

Spoiler [+]
This article, while about an alternate version of Terminator Salvation, does contain spoilers for the version in theaters now.

The Terminator Salvation you saw on movie screens this weekend was not always the Terminator Salvation that was meant to be. Like in the franchise itself, history has been changed, and the original script for Terminator Salvation ended up getting gutted. You can still see the outlines of that script in the current film (a form of deja vu, as similar vestigial script elements can be seen in this summer's blockbuster hit Star Trek), but the specifics that might have made Terminator Salvation if not better at least more interesting are gone.

What caused these massive changes? And what were they? The biggest change came when McG flew to the UK to talk to Christian Bale about starring in the fourth Terminator movie. The director wanted the Batman star to play Marcus Wright, the cyborg protagonist of the script. But Bale focused on another part: John Connor. The only problem is that John Connor had about three minutes of screen time in the entire film; most of Connor's moments were played offscreen. In the original script John Connor was the secretive leader of the Resistance. He lived on the HQ sub, and almost no one saw his face, so as to keep him hidden from the robots. Connor made radio addresses and existed as a legend for the fighting men and women of the Resistance, but in the original script Connor didn't show up onscreen until the last minutes of the movie.

You may remember in late 2007 when the rumor that Bale was signing on to Terminator 4 surfaced there were two competing reports: while Aint It Cool had Bale tipped to play Connor, we had him tipped to play a Terminator. As you can see both are correct; for a little while people involved in the film were assuming that Bale was going to let go of the Connor idea and move over to the Marcus role, but he had something else up his sleeve: massive rewrites to beef up the John Connor role.

Watching Terminator Salvation as it exists in theaters it's easy to see that this was a bad idea. The script that ended up getting shot never quite finds anything for John Connor to do. If you were to remove Connor from the film, relegating him once again to radio voice over, almost none of the film's plot would be changed. It's likely that the new Connor scenes were the work of Jonathan Nolan, who did do a lot of writing on the film, but who was denied credit by the WGA. The reason would be that all of the work Nolan did was cosmetic - adding Connor scenes that had no bearing on the film's structure or plot.

Bale's desire to star as John Connor was probably the most fatal blow to the film; it completely distorted the shape of the story as it existed. But the other fatal blow came from the internet. When the original ending of the script leaked - John Connor is killed by a Terminator and has his skin grafted onto Marcus Wright, who takes up the shadowy leader's place as the leader of the Resistance - many people went crazy. On the surface it seemed like a major slap in the face of the franchise, and doubly so on paper: John Connor, the guy who the entire franchise is ostensibly about, shows up for two and a half pages, gets killed and has his face transplanted onto a robot (in the original script it's actually just the face that gets slapped on Marcus).

There are differing reports as to how far that ending made it. McG has gone on the record again and again saying that was never the ending he wanted (he came on to the project after the script we're talking about here was written), but there's a lot of contrary evidence, including on-set reports that have 'Connor becomes robot' written on production calendars. The entire finished film itself feels like evidence that the original ending was always the intended ending. The movie seems to be inexorably building towards the 'Connor dies' finale, including elements like endless scenes featuring Sarah Connor's tapes, obviously intended to give Marcus/Connor a primer on John Connor's life and destiny. In fact, when John Connor got a pole through the chest I was excited - had McG been lying to us all along and kept the original ending?

Of course he wasn't. The film's biggest weakness comes in the final minutes, which feel almost completely slapped on, as the character we've been following makes a sudden and boring sacrifice. The air just explodes out of the movie as John Connor's rescue feels utterly unearned, and the ending of the movie is so final that you walk out of the theater not caring whether or not the future war is ever again revisited.

So what might have been? Before the Bale rewrites and before the internet kiboshed the original ending?

With John Connor relegated to the shadows for most of the film, the original Terminator Salvation focused more on the relationship between Kyle and Marcus. Star was always there, and was essentially always just as useless, but without the constant cutaways to pointless Connor scenes the film was able to delve more into Kyle/Marcus. The script spent time examining what it was like living in a post-apocalyptic world, and was more definitively R-rated. At the gas station Marcus saves Kyle and Star from a group of cannibals, throwing one of them into an open fire (intended as a callback to the biker on the stove in T2. It's important to note that the original script by extraordinary hacks Brancato and Ferris - the guys who wrote The Net, Catwoman and Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines - is not some discarded gem. It's got plenty of problems of its own).

But again, with Connor out of the script the relationship between Kyle and Marcus gets to grow, which gives Marcus' later quest to rescue Kyle more weight. And the early scenes where Kyle can't drive are paid off in this script, first with a sequence where Marcus teaches him to drive and later, in the third act, where Kyle gets the final heroic beat he's missing in the finished film.

As in the final film Kyle and Star are captured by Skynet and transported to Skynet City, but with one major change: Skynet has no idea who Kyle Reese is. This is a point that bothers many viewers of the final film; I'm not radically concerned, as Kyle Reese's time traveling shenanigans are public record enough that it's believable Skynet would have found out about him while taking over the world's computer networks. But by having Skynet not know who Kyle is the original script removes the machines' idiotic plan to bring John Connor to Skynet City instead of simply killing his dad. This feels like the kind of change that was made to give John Connor more to do, since the whole sequence where Connor convinces the Resistance forces to step down doesn't occur in this script (and why would it? He's Michael Ironsides in this movie).

Marcus' adventures with Blair are slightly different. In the original script he saves Blair from a pack of rabid wolves as opposed to horny rapists. This scene was important because it gives Marcus his first awareness that he's much faster and stronger than he used to be, something he couldn't quite prove against humans in a PG-13 movie (although could you wreck a group of wolves in a PG-13 movie?). In the finished film Blair and Marcus have a tender moment; the original script takes things very, very differently: Blair offers Marcus a STAF. That's Sit Tight And %%$@, a phrase in common use in the Resistance. See, it's a horrible, miserable future and the humans of the time have gotten over their petty prudery. If the only joy they can get is %##%#!*, why not take it? Life is cheap and they may not live to see the next night, so tap whatever @#@ you can.

The next big change comes when Marcus is captured by the Resistance. John Connor remains offscreen and he interrogates Marcus via com-link. But Connor is thinking like the John Connor who has become used to temporal assassination attempts, and he believes that Marcus has been sent from an even more advanced future to kill him. Meanwhile, we have more cutaways to Kyle Reese being transported to Skynet City; this script really forwards Reese in a way that the finished movie fails to do.

Marcus escapes the Resistance more or less as seen in the finished and heads to Skynet City. And it's here that the major changes really come into play.

In the original script the title Terminator Salvation actually meant something. Watching the finished film it's hard to figure out why it has that name - is it because Marcus saves Connor's life in the last minute? In the original script Serena has a bigger role than a quick cameo, and she explains the salvation element.

Marcus comes to Skynet City and finds... a seaside resort populated with humans. He sees Terminator landscapers! It turns out that Skynet hasn't been trying to wipe out humanity. It's been trying to save us.

This is perhaps the most bizarre idea in the whole script, and the one that most obviously doesn't work. It seems as though Brancato and Ferris thought people liked the Matrix sequels, as this all feels like it could be in those films. See, Serena heads Project ANGEL, which is making Hybrids (ie, Cyborgs). The reason? Skynet did a calculation and realized that humanity was going to be extinct in 200 years; the machines decided to save a few by turning them into Hybrids and wipe the rest out. It makes no sense, and is the kind of thing that makes you wonder if these guys ever even watched the previous Terminator films.

What's fascinating is that the Project ANGEL stuff lasted well into production. While I was on set I was given a security badge that gave me access to all the stages; it had Project ANGEL's logo on it. While being given a tour of pre-production artwork we were told more about Project ANGEL and the role it would have in the movie, a role that's completely removed from the final film. At the time I visited the set it seemed like Serena was going to show up in person at the end of the movie, just as she does in the script, and I saw artwork depicting that.

It's here that you can really understand where Terminator Salvation fell to pieces. The film was being rewritten, piecemeal, on the set. Instead of re-engineering the whole picture it seems like McG and company were just tackling each segment, figuring out how to get John Connor more involved without fixing the underlying structure at which they were picking away.

Serena, a cyborg herself, meets Marcus and explains Project ANGEL and the seaside resort to him. She also explains the Transport chip - it's embedded in all cyborgs and prevents them from feeling pain and emotion. She then gives Marcus a tour of the whole Skynet City, showing off the T-800s that are being developed and giving him a peak at the T-1000 and T-X in the earliest stages. She also shows him the time machine technology they've been working on, and the neural net AI database of human brains, which will allow the Terminators to better act like humans and as such better infiltrate human encampments.

Then the big shock: Marcus is too late. Kyle's brain has been removed and he's been uploaded to the neural net database, and Star has been terminated. All hope is lost, and Serena has activated his Transport chip, so Marcus can't do anything.

Just then there's an explosion. Serena is distracted and, just like in the finished film (where it actually makes less sense), Marcus rips out his Transport chip. He then jumps into the time machine, which burns his clothes off, and he goes back in time just far enough to rescue Kyle and Star, grab a laser weapon and set off the explosion that distracted Serena (whether or not Brancato and Ferris were watching Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey while writing this scene is unconfirmed). And then the action begins.

The trio try to escape Skynet City with Kyle driving an ATV, paying off his driving lessons. They're pursued by Hunter/Killer Terminator Tanks, and they take most of them out as they rip through the seaside resort (including killing one Tank by... making it drive into a pool), but they end up on a dock and with one last H/K tank about to end them. Then suddenly Blair shows up leading an airstrike that destroys the tank. Then the sub surfaces, and John Connor finally makes his appearance, leading human troops in combat against the Terminators at the resort. Connor and Kyle meet, but it's not a big moment.

Marcus has rescued a bunch of humans while at Skynet City and the Resistance take them aboard the sub. Everybody is happy and it seems like the Resistance has won the day when Marcus suddenly realizes that Serena is among the refugees. She attacks, blowing off his arm and gut shooting John Connor. Fade to black.

Later Marcus wakes up in the hospital. Blair tells him that they're covering up Project ANGEL - even within the film this was too stupid to let anyone know about it. But there's bad news: John Connor's not going to make it. His wound is fatal. On his death bed John Connor gives Kyle the picture of Sarah Connor (when I interviewed Anton Yelchin he confirmed that this scene had been cut before shooting, which he thought was a good idea. That does make it seem like the original ending was never intended for production). John and Kate beg Marcus to take up the mantle of John Connor - since no one has really seen him anybody can be him. The legend is bigger than the man, they insist.

Marcus agrees, and John Connor's face is grafted onto Marcus (this, it turns out, is the source of Connor's scars. You would think they would have cut off his face from the back of the head, under the hair, but I guess not), despite the fact that nobody really knows what Connor looks like anyway. But it's done, and Connor dies and Marcus now must step up and lead the Resistance into the future.

In a lot of ways the original Terminator Salvation script is still poking through in the final film. In fact, except for the additional John Connor nonsense in the first two acts, the opening two-thirds of the movie (minus the prologue, which was not in this script) more or less follow the original beats. These are the best parts of the movie, and it's when the finished film moves into the third act that everything starts falling apart. It's obvious that McG and Jonathan Nolan never really cracked their own third act, and without the death of John Connor they never found a reason for this movie to even exist. In effect what they've done with their undercooked third act is make a movie that's a TV episode - in the end everything is more or less back at the status quo. And by backgrounding Kyle and robbing him of his third act heroics, the finished film has taken away its only other good reason to exist, namely that it's the beginnings of the Connor/Reese friendship.

Would the original ending have worked? People would have walked out of theaters mad, no doubt. But it was a ballsy idea that could have been executed better than it was in the script. You don't even need to do the face transplant - have Marcus be the original owner of those John Connor scars the whole movie and they'd read like a reveal at the finale. The ending of Salvation now is so pat that it isn't the opening of a new trilogy but just another boring prequel, setting up things we already knew about. Killing Connor would have been shocking and would have added drama to the upcoming installments. Hell, it sounds like Skynet City offered pretty great technology to the heroes - why not have Connor's brain downloaded into Marcus' body?

These are all pointless considerations now. The finished film opted to play utterly safe, and as a result it's a lump without buzz or excitement. Ironically Bale's demand to beef up John Connor, which led to a final film that is utterly distended, would have perfectly set up the character's demise. The biggest problem with Connor dying at the end of the original script is that his death carries no weight as he's a nobody throughout the film. But in the current movie, which feels like it's building to that death, it would have been the kind of surprise that works, one that's had a foundation laid.

The beefing up of Connor led to the diminishment of Reese, a big problem in the final product. Anton Yelchin came on to Terminator Salvation at a time when he was the second lead; I imagine his demotion must have been disheartening. And to audiences it's disappointing as Yelchin is the best actor in the piece. A Terminator Salvation with twice as much Yelchin might very well have been a movie that was more enjoyable, in the same way that Star Trek overcomes its script handicaps with great casting.

Looking at this weekend's box office it's likely that Terminator Salvation is the end of the franchise. And it's probably the end of Christian Bale forcing major rewrites on projects as well. I do think that a smarter rewrite of the original Brancato/Ferris script, one that allowed for a truly shocking ending, might have turned out a film whose failure at the box office would have been worth mourning. While I enjoyed myself watching Salvation, at no point did I really give a %@@# about what was happening or what was going to happen next in the series. McG and Nolan muddied the end of the picture, delivering action generics (yet another Terminator fight in a factory) while never finding their own hook that would give this movie more of an impact than you would get from an expanded universe novel. The only thing that was really, truly broken in Brancato and Ferris' script was Project ANGEL, and the finished film doesn't really give Skynet any better motivation for collecting humans. McG, fearing the fan backlash (which was already starting when the original ending leaked) opted to 'fix' the element that least needed fixing.
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http://chud.com/articles/...TOR-SALVATION/Page1.html



So what do you guys think of the original script? I can definitely see why fans were outraged. But with a few tweaks here and there, that actually would havebeen a total mind %%$@ at the end (in a good way).
 
I enjoyed it.

I would have preferred Marcus to continue his story arc into the next two movies. I thought he was a great piece in the storyline.
The movie does kind of end on a wimper...but I think it was made up by the amount of action that happened during the movie.

I still have T2 as the best of the four though. Being able to balance deep character development, a solid storyline and great action is something that is hardto come by....
 
Originally Posted by Jiffyl00b

Ok well, people probably wont care for what I have to say but, I loved the movie, flaws and all. And I don't want to shove this down anyones throats, cause I know people thought the movie was hot garbage, its just my humble opinion on whats trying to be done with the series. I'm just trying to go by all the information I have gathered from interviews with McG etc.. while awaiting for this joint to release.

This story, other than Marcus' focus point, shows how Connor becomes the leader of the resistance.

And no army's of Terminators, no army like battles, no plasma rounds, no leader Connor, skynet being what we werent expecting. That may be because Salvation is based in 2018, the scenes of the future depicted in the first three movies occur around 2029. There's so much that has yet to be told. Plus, this Connors future is not the same future he was "warned about", cause I mean we already know how the future was supposed to go down after hearing stories told from the first 3 and its nothing like that. So what I have come to understand is McG and the writers, are telling the story of the Connor we've seen grow in t2 and t3, not the already grown future self that we see in those flashback type scenes in the first trilogy. I also remember reading that the T-800 models in Salvation were built way before what John was told, Arnolds model was made in the 2020's. I think in this trilogy (if they do finish it) is what we're going to see is how this Connor deals with the pressure of how things go or dont go according to plan.
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Glad I finished the thread before typing exactly what you just did. It looks like most of NT went in there thinking they were just gonna throw you rightinto the middle of the war (if they did that, there would be no material left for the next 2 movies). Nobody realized this is 10 years before any of thefuture scenes in the other movies, and the "army" of terminators we see in the other films are the t-800's (arnolds model) which obviously, havejust begun production by the end of this movie. I went in thinking this was just a set up for the next 2 movies, got exactly what I expected.
 
^^ I'm a big fan of the Terminator series, but I don't know the dates and timelines of when specific events happened! You know that pointless textcrawl at the beginning of the film? Why didn't they explain everything you just typed? You know why? Cuz the people who made this film are a bunch ofidiots. The whole argument that the purpose of this film was to set up the rest of the trilogy is ridiculous. How anybody can say they're looking forwardto 2 more of these films is beyond me. I pray that there won't be any more sequels. Not in this economy. Save some money for once.
 
Originally Posted by wuSHUMast3r

. The whole argument that the purpose of this film was to set up the rest of the trilogy is ridiculous.
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What makes it ridiculous? This was set up to be a TRILOGY. We were already told Bale signed on for 2 more movies. This is the first of threemovies. Somehow it is ridiculous to expect this movie to set the stage for the next 2 movies?

Nobody noticed the T2 plot holes because we were all a lot younger, and just watched the movie to watch the movie. For example, T2 was supposed to be 10 yearsafter T1. Well, T1 takes place in 1984, T2 is 1991. 1991-1984 = 10?? John Connor is supposed to be 10 years old in T2, they cast him as a 13 or 14 year old. Where is the chip for the T-1000? How does liquid metal also contain circuitry and a CPU. According to the first film, no clothing or weapons can make itthrough the time portal, only organic material. So how did the T-1000 get through? It is strictly liquid metal, no living tissue like Arnold's T-800. All the characters are naked when they go through time because clothing does not go through, but the T-1000 makes its own clothing, so why was Robert Patricknaked in his opening sequence in T2?

You see, we can sit here and pick apart any of these movies like we are with TS. The difference is nobody really cared in 1991, it was just a badass newTerminator movie, and that was enough.
 
Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by wuSHUMast3r

. The whole argument that the purpose of this film was to set up the rest of the trilogy is ridiculous.
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What makes it ridiculous? This was set up to be a TRILOGY. We were already told Bale signed on for 2 more movies. This is the first of three movies. Somehow it is ridiculous to expect this movie to set the stage for the next 2 movies?

Nobody noticed the T2 plot holes because we were all a lot younger, and just watched the movie to watch the movie. For example, T2 was supposed to be 10 years after T1. Well, T1 takes place in 1984, T2 is 1991. 1991-1984 = 10?? John Connor is supposed to be 10 years old in T2, they cast him as a 13 or 14 year old. Where is the chip for the T-1000? How does liquid metal also contain circuitry and a CPU. According to the first film, no clothing or weapons can make it through the time portal, only organic material. So how did the T-1000 get through? It is strictly liquid metal. All the characters are naked when they go through time because clothing does not go through, but the T-1000 makes its own clothing, so why was Robert Patrick naked in his opening sequence in T2?

You see, we can sit here and pick apart any of these movies like we are with TS. The difference is nobody really cared in 1991, it was just a badass new Terminator movie, and that was enough.
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This man is completely right, most of those disappointed with the movie are either unfamiliar with the story, being nit-picky, or won't likeany Terminator movie without Arnold.
 
That may be because Salvation is based in 2018, the scenes of the future depicted in the first three movies occur around 2029
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Nobody realized this is 10 years before any of the future scenes in the other movies, and the "army" of terminators we see in the other films are the t-800's (arnolds model) which obviously, have just begun production by the end of this movie. I went in thinking this was just a set up for the next 2 movies, got exactly what I expected.


this

I would have preferred Marcus to continue his story arc into the next two movies. I thought he was a great piece in the storyline.
I agree, I thought his character was great & Sam Worthington did a great job. he pretty much stole most of the scenes he was in.
I believe he was actually referred by JC for this movie as he is also going to be the lead in Cameron's next film, Avatar. this was pretty much his first Big start

I can understand all the nitpicking everyone is doing, I did it too. I still enjoyed the movie though, imperfections and all. I mean, since when was the Terminator franchise a Shakespeare-esque drama/plot? it's always had a good Sci-fi premise and basically kick %@* action scenes.


it's unfortunate that Night at the Museum did better in the box office, but I'm not surprised cause the first one did impressive #'s too and it's a star-studded family movie. Terminator still did decent, though
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I thought it was a dope movie based on action sequences only. The acting and storyline were corny as hell. It definitely should have been Rated R, butHollywood being Hollywood I can see why they wanted to show this to a broader audience for $$$ purposes and a golly gee happy ending to satisfy this broaderaudience.

It is what it is, just another summer flick... nothing spectacular.
 
even MORE INTERESTING. sorry, forgot how to do the spoiler thing.

SPOILER ALERT: Do not read any further if you don't want to know plot details of Terminator Salvation. Seriously!You've been warned!
Two weeks before Terminator Salvation hit theaters, the film's director, McG, sat in his L.A. production office foran interview with EW. He was talking about the swirl of rumors and gossip surrounding the film -- about how bloggers had posted all kinds of far-fetchedspeculation during production and how it drove him nuts.

And then, out of nowhere, McG smiles and says, "Here's something I've never talked about before...".

Now, before we go any further, there's some backstory about the movie's plot you'll need to know if you haven'talready seen it. Terminator Salvation is set in the year 2018 -- after the apocalyptic Judgment Day, which was prophesied in the earlier films. Thereare three main characters in the story: John Connor (Christian Bale), the son of Sarah Connor who will lead the resistance against the evil Skynet; Kyle Reese(Anton Yelchin), the young resistance fighter who will grow up and eventually travel back in time (as seen in the 1984 original when Reese was played byMichael Biehn) to impregnate Sarah Connor with the young savior, John Connor; and Marcus Wright, a mysterious dude who's half human, half machineprogrammed by Skynet (the fact that he's unaware of this makes for some of the most poignant scenes in the film).

Okay, now back to McG's big, juicy secret. A secret, by the way, that Bale will back up as you read on.

"There was talk on the Internet about an alternate ending where Connor dies and they take Connor's likeness and put iton top of Marcus Wright's machine body. So that it's actually a machine that's leading the resistance! And the Internet caught wind of that andpeople went, 'That's bulls---! We don't want that!'"

McG grins. "Well, that's not really what the ending was."

Actually, the bloggers were on the right track. Except, McG adds, the original ending actually went even further.

"Connor dies, okay? He's dead," McG continues. "And Marcus offers his physical body, so Connor's exterioris put on top of his machine body. It looks like Connor, but it's really Marcus underneath. And all of the characters we care about (Kyle Reese,Connor's wife Kate, etc.) are brought into the room to see him and they think it's Connor. And Connor gets up and then there's a small flicker ofred in his eyes and he shoots Kate, he shoots Kyle, he shoots everybody in the room. Fade to black. End of movie. Skynet wins. F--- you!"

F--- you, indeed.

We tell the director that this would be the darkest, bleakest summer blockbuster ending of all time. He agrees.

"It's the most nihilistic thing of all time. And Christian went f---ing crazy, of course. He was insistent that it bedone that way! He wanted the bad guys to win! Can you imagine the oxygen going out of the theater?! What just happened! It would piss you off! But maybe twoyears from now, you'd think it was ballsy. But in the end, it just felt like too much of a bummer."

He pauses, thinking about the alternate ending that wasn't. "Maybe we blew it."

McG says the studio had signed off on this original dark-as-night ending. But something about it didn't smell right to himin the end. How could a movie with a reported budget of $200 million and a possible future of sequels possibly end that way?

EW sits down with Bale the next day and tells the star how McG let the cat out of the bag. Bale laughs. "There's notmuch McG can keep in, is there?"

Was he really, as McG says, gung-ho to shoot that everyone-dies ending?

"I'm not the director," says Bale. "There came to be a different option that almost everyone, except myself,felt was the better way to go. I took a bit of convincing, but you know, at the end of the day, you need a director to make that call."

But doesn't he think that his Salvation would have been a depressing bummer, not to mention suicide at the boxoffice?

"Done the way I saw it? No. But am I disappointed with this one? No.
 
Reading the link that Shuges post,
They should have just stuck with the og script and made this movie about kyle and Marcus. But fix lil things here and there too.

Spoiler [+]
But as far a JC dying, does he die in the comics? I really wouldn't know I would have felt if JC died. It would have puzzled/bother me til the next terminator movie came out.
 
I would have no problem with that ending if it was the end to the Terminator series. But with 2 more movies coming out you can't go in that direction. Istill need to see this
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"Connor dies, okay? He's dead," McG continues. "And Marcus offers his physical body, so Connor's exterior is put on top of his machine body. It looks like Connor, but it's really Marcus underneath. And all of the characters we care about (Kyle Reese, Connor's wife Kate, etc.) are brought into the room to see him and they think it's Connor. And Connor gets up and then there's a small flicker of red in his eyes and he shoots Kate, he shoots Kyle, he shoots everybody in the room. Fade to black. End of movie. Skynet wins. F--- you!"
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That would of been the best ending to a movie since The Mist. Hopefully they use it in part 6.
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What doyung posted basically confirms the original script scenario that I posted up top. Thanks for that articleman.

And yeah Beermann.... I agree that they should have kept the original script with some tweaks here and there. Storywould have been a lot more interesting and definitely a lot more shocking.

Originally Posted by DaNiKeRhiNo

most of those disappointed with the movie are either unfamiliar with the story, being nit-picky, or won't like any Terminator movie without Arnold.
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Eh... I disagree with you on all points. I could say that those who LIKED the movie are ignoring the OG story, care little for plot/detail, orjust like anything with "Batman"/Christian Bale in it.
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I mean, you see how that works? It sounds silly.
So no, I totally disagree with your logic.
People who dislike the movie have valid complaints. As a matter of fact, in my review I named things that I likedabout the flick.
Hey, I'm not trying to change yours (or anyone else's) mind about the film. It's all just a matter of opinion y'know?

Originally Posted by J Burner

Nobody noticed the T2 plot holes because we were all a lot younger, and just watched the movie to watch the movie. For example, T2 was supposed to be 10 years after T1. Well, T1 takes place in 1984, T2 is 1991. 1991-1984 = 10?? John Connor is supposed to be 10 years old in T2, they cast him as a 13 or 14 year old. Where is the chip for the T-1000? How does liquid metal also contain circuitry and a CPU. According to the first film, no clothing or weapons can make it through the time portal, only organic material. So how did the T-1000 get through? It is strictly liquid metal, no living tissue like Arnold's T-800. All the characters are naked when they go through time because clothing does not go through, but the T-1000 makes its own clothing, so why was Robert Patrick naked in his opening sequence in T2?

You see, we can sit here and pick apart any of these movies like we are with TS. The difference is nobody really cared in 1991, it was just a badass new Terminator movie, and that was enough.
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I think back when T2 came out, there was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more room for error. It was only the second film of the series at the time. I mean, how can youquestion minor details when a TON of stuff wasn't even established yet? No history, no continuity... So of course people are just gonna sit back and enjoythe flick.
It's like picking up X-Men #500 knowing the history of the past 499 issues and seeing that #500 just ignores or goes against that history. If somethingdoesn't add up in that issue, you're gonna be like "man, this is weak". But if you picked up issue #2 right after issue #1, you're notgonna complain loudly or be too confused when something new is introduced.

By the way, the T-1000 was able to come through because it replicated actual human flesh and tissue thereby "fooling" the time portal.
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Originally Posted by J Burner

What makes it ridiculous? This was set up to be a TRILOGY. We were already told Bale signed on for 2 more movies. This is the first of three movies. Somehow it is ridiculous to expect this movie to set the stage for the next 2 movies?
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Do you remember how good Star Wars Episode 1 was with people knowing that it was set-up for a trilogy? Me either. Cuz it wasn't good.
And that's how this movie felt.
 
That alternate ending actually sounds kinda dope. People would be pissed, but that would be epic. I need to watch this though.
 
I don't know if I would have preferred the John Connor-less script over this one or not. I certainly wouldn't have liked him dying if he was just aminor background character, as it would have had no emotional impact. I also don't know if the whole movie could have been justified without Connor, and itseems like the continuity would be even more screwed up.
 
I enjoyed the movie, and I don't mind the plot line holes because having Judgment Day in 1992 just wouldn't seem right. T2 still holds the place asthe best Terminator movie, but I'll probably get this movie when it comes out on dvd.
 
Oh yea T2 was suppose to be set in '95. They just didn't mention it.

And I guess John was just really big for a 10 year old.
 
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