⭐ OFFICIAL 2020-2021 NBA Off-Season Thread: Olympics begin 7/23; NBA Draft 7/29⭐

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I agree with Lebby and KD but I can’t agree with Trae being in that floor raising category with them when accounting for context.
Yea, agree that it’s probably a bit early to throw Trae in any of these convos for sure. Especially in comparing him to Steph.
 
We really have to see how GSW’s season plays out, and I don’t think it’ll be all that pretty, but despite the points made in that thread, I can’t definitively say Lebby or KD would carry this team to a significantly better record. KD is a tough one because he’s played with Russ, Curry or Myrie his whole career. Lebby pre-Heatles is a strong example.

Carrying those last two Cavs teams to 60+ wins in his first stint was hella impressive but he was in MVP form. He was Steph’s age in 16-17 and took those Cavs teams to *only* 50 wins. We really think 32 y/o Bron is elevating this current Dubs roster to a high level?
 
I have to ask, but why did you change your name. DCAllAfrican DCAllAfrican

DCAllAfrican DCAllAfrican was telling people for years Giannis was Nigerian not Greek all the while denying his own ancestry by calling himself “American.”


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We really have to see how GSW’s season plays out, and I don’t think it’ll be all that pretty, but despite the points made in that thread, I can’t definitively say Lebby or KD would carry this team to a significantly better record. KD is a tough one because he’s played with Russ, Curry or Myrie his whole career. Lebby pre-Heatles is a strong example.

Carrying those last two Cavs teams to 60+ wins in his first stint was hella impressive but he was in MVP form. He was Steph’s age in 16-17 and took those Cavs teams to *only* 50 wins. We really think 32 y/o Bron is elevating this current Dubs roster to a high level?
Even with pre-Miami Bron... although his supporting casts were pretty weak (compared to the juggernauts in the West) they were pretty in line with the other supporting casts in the East.
Off the top of my head... the only teams with multiple all stars around that time in the East were Detroit and Miami, who had both aged out by the time Bron and the Cavs were contending. Then you had Washington (lol), New Jersey (?) and later the Celtics and Orlando.
So yeah I have to agree with you
 
Lol yea forsure
I definitely posed the question with Steph in mind but don’t think I explicitly said as his name because of how hard it is to have a nuanced discussion about him in here :lol:

Its not really THAT hard tho :lol:

But Steph has been both a floor raiser (12-15) & a ceiling raiser (15-19). That’s the truth of it.

You could argue there are better floor raisers. But he’s capable and has proven it. The end of the day....what really matters? Winning right? All of the best players of all time have been ceiling raisers with all time great talent around them.

Magic, Kareem, Bron, Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Bird

It just seems funny...to criticize Steph for having success with Klay Thompson as his best running mate, when the Warriors were historically good...pre and post KD (19 run back to the finals) when the guys I listed above all played with each other too. And won.

Nobody was critiquing Shaq of all people...for playing with some of the greatest guards in history from his 2nd year on. Or Magic for playing with Kareem/Worthy etc from the gate. Or bird. Kobe, outside of Steph...is the only one who had to kind of “prove” he could win without Shaq. And in hindsight, it was dumb because although Tmac, AI & VC were nice....they weren’t kobe. And we knew that.

But even then....as polarizing as he was in that 04-07 era...he was still recognized as one of the top 3 players in the league. Regardless of if he missed the playoffs, blew a 3-1 lead in the first round, refused to shoot etc. He was heavily criticized, but the talent was the talent. With Steph....there are constant conversations on if it was really real, or “fluky”. You know the framing.
 
Even with pre-Miami Bron... although his supporting casts were pretty weak (compared to the juggernauts in the West) they were pretty in line with the other supporting casts in the East.
Off the top of my head... the only teams with multiple all stars around that time in the East were Detroit and Miami, who had both aged out by the time Bron and the Cavs were contending. Then you had Washington (lol), New Jersey (?) and later the Celtics and Orlando.
So yeah I have to agree with you

Never would’ve thought I’d see YOU say...THIS :lol.

Im impressed man.
 
This Jermi Grant thing for me conflicted. Idk what to make of it. It’s 5 games, but he’s improved and bet on himself. Detroit is trash...and this could be a hot stretch that flames out or looks bad.

Or my nuggets ain’t try hard enough to keep/feature him. He chose at the end of the day. Same deal.
 
This Jermi Grant thing for me conflicted. Idk what to make of it. It’s 5 games, but he’s improved and bet on himself. Detroit is trash...and this could be a hot stretch that flames out or looks bad.

Or my nuggets ain’t try hard enough to keep/feature him. He chose at the end of the day. Same deal.
From what I see the nuggets don’t try hard enough to feature anyone but Jokic and Murray. They got MPJ spot up shooting and he’s really good at it, but there is more to his offensive game than that
 
This definitely has to be a rare feat, maybe even 1 of 1


Could maybe see it eventually for some of the awards of 2010s but would need to look. I could see ROY (Wiggins, MCW, Brogdon, KAT, Ben) and DPOY (Noah, M. Gasol, Gobert, Green) awards throwing a wrench in it, though. 1985 was impressive :pimp:
 
From what I see the nuggets don’t try hard enough to feature anyone but Jokic and Murray. They got MPJ spot up shooting and he’s really good at it, but there is more to his offensive game than that

This is a Mike Malone thing. The 2-man game is tired...but it works when you have Jokic & Murray. MPJ is also super young.

A more inventive coach would spread the floor and move it better. But again, this is why my team has a ceiling. And unfortunate, the talent keeps the coaching in place.

Ive been on my fire Michael Malone **** for, forever. But he keeps f’n succeeding, in spite of his flaws :lol. So there is no justification for it.
 
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