2014-15 Official Lakers Season Thread, Vol: We Love Each Other

[darthska]

Just jumping here, but...

So, Sarver isn't cheap.
Trading Joe for Diaw is acceptable.
Selling draft picks don't matter (but points out they have no bench)

... I thought he said they had a bench, but MDA refused to use them.

 

[CP1708]

two young guys rotting on the bench that you traded away an All-Star for? That's coaching, not on the talent.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


Ok, now we just had a breakthrough. You blame the coach for not playing two kids, who may or may not have the talent to make it, and when you get those 2 unknowns for an all star (a GM/Owner move) you put that on the coach.

I see.........

 

[statis22]

Not even an fair comparison tho

You sellin me that it's a wise investment for Melo? You believe that?

While he's still one of the best 10 players in the league, absolutely.

I don't, at all. I'm not ok with givin 90 mil to a guy who only shoots. Call me crazy.

Ok Crazy.

 

[MVP]

Yes, because trading Joe Johnson for Boris Diaw is something you would totally support, sure.

So, Sarver isn't cheap.
Trading Joe for Diaw is acceptable.
Selling draft picks don't matter (but points out they have no bench)

It's a coaching issue.

You really have that era of the Suns down cold playa.

Did the Suns not get back to the exact same point with Diaw and NO Amare as they did with Joe Johnson or nah?

YOU said they don't have a bench or enough talent to at least get to the Finals in MDA's case. I said they had one that wasn't utilized effectively. I said MDA and Brooks were and are notorious for not playing their bench players and relying on their starters too much. I think OKC has enough as constructed without James Harden to get back to the Finals this year, Brooks just doesn't know how to maximize the most out of his players or put lineups out there that will be effective.

Think you're confusing yourself.

 

[CP1708]

Just jumping here, but...

So, Sarver isn't cheap.

Trading Joe for Diaw is acceptable.
Selling draft picks don't matter (but points out they have no bench)

... I thought he said they had a bench, but MDA refused to use them.

, well yes, they did have a bench. Let me show you. (you asked, so I guess you don't have to read what I print here, but alas...)

You had Nash, Stat, Marion, Bell, and Diaw as the main 5 starters in 2007. (their healthiest team, and best chance at a title, the suspensions year)

So, after those 5 starters, here's what Mike had at his disposal, for a "bench"

Barbosa (solid 6th man)
James Jones, a shooter only
Kurt Thomas
Marcus Banks
34 year old Jalen Rose
Pat Burke (????)
Sean Marks
Eric Piatkowski
Jumaine Jones


So, after Barbosa, and a little Kurt Thomas down low, what we workin with here Ska? Who you wanna throw out there to help win a title? Talk to me. Cuz we don't need any first round draft picks from 04-05-06-or 07, just these guys. Who gets minutes?

 

[MVP]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


Ok, now we just had a breakthrough. You blame the coach for not playing two kids, who may or may not have the talent to make it, and when you get those 2 unknowns for an all star (a GM/Owner move) you put that on the coach.

I see.........

Yes I do. Not young as inexperienced, cause he was forced to play them during this season because of the injuries to Russ, Thabo and Perk. They've shown that they can be effective; yet in the playoffs inexplicably he's decided to bench them, when his offense is struggling mightily and there often playing 2 on 5 or 3 on 5. And that's somehow on the talent? I mean when Reggie got the opportunity to play, he's proved to be able to do so. Yet Russ and KD are still playing 40+ min a game. And that's because the talent is lacking, or refusal to use that talent?

 

[CP1708]

Yes, because trading Joe Johnson for Boris Diaw is something you would totally support, sure.

So, Sarver isn't cheap.
Trading Joe for Diaw is acceptable.
Selling draft picks don't matter (but points out they have no bench)

It's a coaching issue.

You really have that era of the Suns down cold playa.

Did the Suns not get back to the exact same point with Diaw and NO Amare as they did with Joe Johnson or nah?

YOU said they don't have a bench or enough talent to at least get to the Finals in MDA's case. I said they had one that wasn't utilized effectively. I said MDA and Brooks were and are notorious for not playing their bench players and relying on their starters too much. I think OKC has enough as constructed without James Harden to get back to the Finals this year, Brooks just doesn't know how to maximize the most out of his players or put lineups out there that will be effective.

Think you're confusing yourself.

No. I am not even close to confusing myself. You're the one arguing one way for one team, and a completely different way for the other team.

I ain't the one confused.


Gimme a ******* break with the whole "exact same point with Diaw and no Amare" You don't think maybe Joe Johnson still on that roster the next year, maybe they get FURTHER than they did with Diaw? Do you need help with this or something?
Or the next year, when Stat came back, having Joe instead of Diaw might not have made a bigger impact?


WHO WAS THE BETTER PLAYER? It ain't Diaw. So stop trying to ******* sell me that it's the "same thing"

 

[CP1708]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


Ok, now we just had a breakthrough. You blame the coach for not playing two kids, who may or may not have the talent to make it, and when you get those 2 unknowns for an all star (a GM/Owner move) you put that on the coach.

I see.........

Yes I do. Not young as inexperienced, cause he was forced to play them during this season because of the injuries to Russ, Thabo and Perk. They've shown that they can be effective; yet in the playoffs inexplicably he's decided to bench them, when his offense is struggling mightily and there often playing 2 on 5 or 3 on 5. And that's somehow on the talent? I mean when Reggie got the opportunity to play, he's proved to be able to do so. Yet Russ and KD are still playing 40+ min a game. And that's because the talent is lacking, or refusal to use that talent?

You really in here asking for help understanding why 2 21 year olds don't get to play in the damn playoffs? Seriously?

If they were LeBron-Rose-Kobe premier talent 21 year olds, fine. When they aren't, then they don't play, period.


2006 Lakers, Phil Jackson.
Andrew Bynum, 18 minutes in 7 games.
Ronny Turiaf, 23 minutes in 7 games.

Kwame Brown, 225 minutes in 7 games.


Shouldn't Phil have played his two young guys to try and defeat the Suns? I mean, why were they rotting on the bench? Not like Kwame was any good, right?

 

[MVP]

So OKC's guys were good enough to get major regular season minutes and proved to be pretty effective when in there, but you refuse to use them in the playoffs. Especially when a blind man can see how limited and predictable OKC's offense is.

Your 2006 Lakers argument is flawed Bynum only played 338 minutes and Turiaf 161 minutes in the regular season. Lamb and Jones played 1538 and 764 minutes this regular season respectively. It's not the same. You're not throwing them into the fire.

 

[CP1708]

Lamb PER 13.4
Jones PER 10.1
Both, below league average.


Win Shares
Lamb 3.3
Jones 1.5
Nothing good there either.


Lamb 43%
Jones 45%
Helpful????


Lamb shot 37% on shots between 3 and 10 feet.


Your definition of "pretty effective" is different than mine, by a large amount it seems. They were minute fillers. That's it.

The late season add of Caron Butler, a vet, in the playoffs, renders them meaningless.


I don't get down with Scott Brooks, but those 2 kids not playing is not on him, they aren't good enough (yet)

 

[MVP]

They aren't ready but Caron has a PER of 11.9, Win share of 1.6 and shot 39% in the regular season and a dismal 34% in the postseason so far, but he renders them useless, ok.

Or Thabo with his PER of 10.4, 3.0 win share and 41% FG in the regular season and 33% this postseason.

You never know how young players are going to respond until they get a chance to do so, see Reggie Jax last year when Russ went down. And you never will if they don't get a chance

 

[CP1708]

Vets play in the playoffs over kids. This ain't nothin new man. Every coach plays vets over kids come playoff time.

 

[MVP]

Oh, except they don't. Phil did.

Heat ain't play Chalmers and Cole, Spurs ain't play Kawhi, Danny, Gary Neal. Didn't they get rid of Stephen Jax a vet who had one a title with them, partly b/c the young buck was up and coming?

I love how somebody brings up counter points and the response is hey that's the way it's always been, when clearly it hasn't. Just because Phil did it doesn't mean everyone else has the same philosophy. If you can play you get time, don't have to be an elite young talent; especially when you've proven you can play earlier in the season, if you fill a role on the team you play.

When OKC went to the Finals in 2012, Serge was 22 and not a Rose-Kobe-Bron type elite talent. Why wasn't the vet Nick Collison played more? Brooks has done it before, which makes his current situation even more mind boggling.

Or better yet, look at this season Reggie Jax just turned 24 two weeks ago right now and is playing over Fish. Or last season at 22 when Russ went down, why didn't Brooks go to Fish instead after Jax only average 14 min in the regular season?

 

[WAKKO!]

 waiting for draft day

 

[darthska]

 

Just jumping here, but...

So, Sarver isn't cheap.

Trading Joe for Diaw is acceptable.
Selling draft picks don't matter (but points out they have no bench)

... I thought he said they had a bench, but MDA refused to use them.

, well yes, they did have a bench. Let me show you. (you asked, so I guess you don't have to read what I print here, but alas...)

You had Nash, Stat, Marion, Bell, and Diaw as the main 5 starters in 2007. (their healthiest team, and best chance at a title, the suspensions year)

So, after those 5 starters, here's what Mike had at his disposal, for a "bench"

Barbosa (solid 6th man)
James Jones, a shooter only
Kurt Thomas
Marcus Banks

34 year old Jalen Rose
Pat Burke (????)
Sean Marks
Eric Piatkowski
Jumaine Jones


So, after Barbosa, and a little Kurt Thomas down low, what we workin with here Ska? Who you wanna throw out there to help win a title? Talk to me. Cuz we don't need any first round draft picks from 04-05-06-or 07, just these guys. Who gets minutes?

Ummmm... what the...

I said that I thought Mamba pointed out that they had a bench.

I never said "The Suns don't have a bench."

I said "I thought I remembered Mamba saying The Suns do have a bench, which is seldom used, NOT 'The Suns don't have a bench.'"

Stay on track, please. I can't handle all this jumping topics mid-sentence.

 

[grandtheftbike]

 waiting for draft day

it's not coming soon enough so why not argue to pass the time



:\

 

[CP1708]

 

Just jumping here, but...

So, Sarver isn't cheap.


Trading Joe for Diaw is acceptable.
Selling draft picks don't matter (but points out they have no bench)

... I thought he said they had a bench, but MDA refused to use them.

, well yes, they did have a bench. Let me show you. (you asked, so I guess you don't have to read what I print here, but alas...)


You had Nash, Stat, Marion, Bell, and Diaw as the main 5 starters in 2007. (their healthiest team, and best chance at a title, the suspensions year)


So, after those 5 starters, here's what Mike had at his disposal, for a "bench"


Barbosa (solid 6th man)

James Jones, a shooter only

Kurt Thomas

Marcus Banks

34 year old Jalen Rose

Pat Burke (????)

Sean Marks

Eric Piatkowski

Jumaine Jones



So, after Barbosa, and a little Kurt Thomas down low, what we workin with here Ska? Who you wanna throw out there to help win a title? Talk to me. Cuz we don't need any first round draft picks from 04-05-06-or 07, just these guys. Who gets minutes?

Ummmm... what the...

I said that I thought Mamba pointed out that they had a bench.

I never said "The Suns don't have a bench."

I said "I thought I remembered Mamba saying The Suns do have a bench, which is seldom used, NOT 'The Suns don't have a bench.'"

Stay on track, please. I can't handle all this jumping topics mid-sentence.

I know, I was showing you the bench that Mamba claims was there.

Leaving it up to you to decide, do you agree with Mamba that that bench should have been used more, or see that Mamba may not have a point as this bench is less than balls.

 

[CP1708]

Oh, except they don't. Phil did.

Heat ain't play Chalmers and Cole, Spurs ain't play Kawhi, Danny, Gary Neal. Didn't they get rid of Stephen Jax a vet who had one a title with them, partly b/c the young buck was up and coming?

I love how somebody brings up counter points and the response is hey that's the way it's always been, when clearly it hasn't. Just because Phil did it doesn't mean everyone else has the same philosophy. If you can play you get time, don't have to be an elite young talent; especially when you've proven you can play earlier in the season, if you fill a role on the team you play.

When OKC went to the Finals in 2012, Serge was 22 and not a Rose-Kobe-Bron type elite talent. Why wasn't the vet Nick Collison played more? Brooks has done it before, which makes his current situation even more mind boggling.

Or better yet, look at this season Reggie Jax just turned 24 two weeks ago right now and is playing over Fish. Or last season at 22 when Russ went down, why didn't Brooks go to Fish instead after Jax only average 14 min in the regular season?

Are you for serious with this post?

 

[MVP]

Vets play in the playoffs over kids. This ain't nothin new man. Every coach plays vets over kids come playoff time.

These are your words not mine.

Are you for serious with this post?

Brooks played a 22 yr old Ibaka over Collison in 2012 and an 22 yr old Reggie Jax (after averaging 5 ppg in 14 min) last year over a 5 time champion in Fish. Are you going to sit here and say he didn't?

What's stopping him from doing a similar thing with Lamb and Jones now at least seeing what they can do when you have vets that aren't producing?

 

[darthska]

 

[CP1708]

[CONTENTEMBED=/t/590319/2013-14-lakers-off-season-thread/1260_20#post_20487657 layout=inline]
Leaving it up to you to decide, do you agree with Mamba that that bench should have been used more, or see that Mamba may not have a point as this bench is less than balls.

If you think that group of rejects compiles a worthwhile bench, then there's nothing I can do for this place.

I would be interested in seeing what a "bad" bench would look like in y'all's eyes tho.


What the heck? Where did your post go, I quoted?????

 

[grandtheftbike]

I would be interested in seeing what a "bad" bench would look like in y'all's eyes tho.

last years blazers

"You want the truth?! YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!"

(and there's a gif for gtb to post )

 

[darthska]

See? Told you you didn't wanna do that. 

I expect a bench to be comprised of a solid guy who COULD start for other teams, a veteran 'has been', some 'flash in the pan' post players or scorers...

... while you expect a bench to be Robert Horry, Andrew Bynum, James Harden, The Machine, Brook Lopez, and the veteran leadership of like a Vince Carter. Damn near a decent starting 5 +1 for a midlevel team. 

 

[CP1708]

No, I don't expect that kind of bench, at all. (Where do you even get that I would expect that????? )

We made due with Sasha, Farmar, Shannon and Josh Powell. But LO was a major piece, moreso than Barbosa was.


Marcus Banks, James Jones, Jalen, Burke, Marks, Piatkowski???????


Barbosa and Kurt Thomas was all they had on that bench worth using. Those other 6 guys were 6 bodies. Not one person on earth could make a case those 6 were worth a **** at that stage. (Jalen at 28 would have been great, not at 34)

 

[MVP]

Barbosa won 6th man of the year like LO did for us. Kurt Thomas was more of a contributor down low than Josh Powell. James Jones, 3 point specialist like Sasha. Marcus Banks and Farmar both back up PGs, Farmar got a bit more playing time though.

Kurt Thomas 2007- 11.4 PER, 2.9 WS
Josh Powell 2009- 9.9 PER, 0.6 WS

Marcus Banks 2007- 11.3 PER, 0.4 WS
Jordan Farmar 2009- 9.9 PER, 0.8 WS

James Jones 2007- 10.8 PER, 2.2 WS
Sasha Vujacic 2009- 12.6 PER, 3.7 WS

Seems like all were just "bodies" as you say.

6th men:

Barbosa 2007- 18.4 PER, 8.2 WS
Odom 2009- 16.6 PER, 6.9 WS

One is a championship caliber bench and the other is not...interesting.