lawdog1
Supporter
- 59,645
- 71,608
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2000
So its official. Those jerseys literally look like trash.
2014 NBA Off-Season; Paul George suffers a double-compund-fracture, likely out for season. Speedy re
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by japanair21,
- Start date
- Status
So its official. Those jerseys literally look like trash.
- 44,771
- 66,482
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2001
Luke Walton was leading the league in 3 pointers for a stretch. The ball had to be done away with
- 4,751
- 2,232
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2008
VICE puts out good stuff. I always thought delonte was a pretty good all around player. hope he gets a shot, i know the bulls could use a backup ball handler that isnt named kirk hinrich.
da r entertainment
Supporter
- 9,880
- 3,741
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2002
I swear that's the first thing that popped in to my head when I saw the pic. Just let it go already.
- 20,261
- 2,188
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
- 54,162
- 31,663
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2002
what shoes is he wearing?
- 38,406
- 7,519
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2008
mr marcus
Banned
- 26,572
- 5,415
- Joined
- May 3, 2010
rondo
- 44,771
- 66,482
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2001
Kinda look like sky davises
- 38,406
- 7,519
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2008
- 160,021
- 141,442
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2001
re: DeLonte West. One of the more underrated combo guards of this generation. Seriously, dude could do it all. Really no weaknesses in his game at all man. Loved watching him grow as a player through the years. Local dude, so I am always pulling for him.
Last edited:
- 30,668
- 7,905
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2013
I used to always trade/sign him in 2k franchise mode with the Kings
Budinger too.
T0INE
formerly toine2983
- 66,762
- 72,908
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2005
Lebby's hairline going through Frieza-esque transformation stages.
- 11,611
- 1,134
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2013
C'mon bron. You can't go from a fresh fade announcing your shoes to that on two weeks. Just take it all off.
- 150,441
- 201,106
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
Kurt Helin @basketballtalk 5m
It’s official, Celtics sign Evan Turner to two-year deal http://dlvr.it/73JyvB
It’s official, Celtics sign Evan Turner to two-year deal http://dlvr.it/73JyvB
- 150,441
- 201,106
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
the man.. the myth.. the legend..
FUNAKI!
FUNAKI!
- 38,406
- 7,519
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2008
See 12 and 12 for Ivan Drago especially if he keeps the mustache.
- 150,441
- 201,106
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
- 19,401
- 21,029
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- 80,694
- 55,639
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2012
Who can post an ESPN Insider article? Apparently Klay Thompson was the league's biggest black hole last season
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10052149/biggest-ball-hogs-league
"Don't expect to see the ball back if you pass it to Toronto's Rudy Gay or New York's Carmelo Anthony."
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10052149/biggest-ball-hogs-league
"Don't expect to see the ball back if you pass it to Toronto's Rudy Gay or New York's Carmelo Anthony."
- 91,251
- 125,436
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2010
On my phone so I can't post it, but that article was only from the first month of the season.
Ricky D
formerly centex hogg
- 19,330
- 14,041
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2013
[h1]Beware of NBA's biggest ball hogs[/h1]
Originally Published: November 29, 2013
By Tom Haberstroh | ESPN Insider
end mod-article-title begin story body
photo wide photo
Andrew Francis Wallace/Getty ImagesDon't expect to see the ball back if you pass it to Toronto's Rudy Gay or New York's Carmelo Anthony.
end wide photo
It may be Black Friday for most folks, but here in the land of Per Diem, today is Black Hole Friday.
Yes, Black Hole Friday.
On Thanksgiving Day, I identified the players who should be giving thanks for their buckets and to whom they owe their gratitude. But we're going to look at the flip side on Black Hole Friday: where basketballs go but never come back. The ball hogs. The gunners.
We have a brand-spanking-new trove of numbers from SportVU that will help us expose those who monopolize the basketball and keep it from their teammates. No longer must we be shackled by the confines of the box score. Thanks to 3-D cameras in every arena, we can see exactly how many passes a player makes, how many seconds he possesses the ball, and how often he dribbles.
In other words, we can identify the biggest ball hogs in the game. For these purposes, we're going to go by the purest sense of the term: the player who hogs the ball and rarely passes. To identify those, we'll see how many seconds each player possesses the ball on average between passes. In the chart below, I've listed the player's average time of possession in seconds (TOP) and his average passes per game, which I'll use to arrive at his average hog rate, which is expressed in seconds.
Those names?
[h4]TOP 10 BALL HOGS IN THE NBA[/h4]
Longest time of possession between passes (minimum 250 minutes; stats through Tuesday)
[table][tr][th=""]Player[/th][th=""]Team[/th][th=""]MPG[/th][th=""]TOP[/th][th=""]Passes[/th][th=""]Hog Rate[/th][/tr][tr][td]Russell Westbrook[/td][td]OKC[/td][td]33.5[/td][td]390[/td][td]50.2[/td][td]7.8 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Brandon Jennings[/td][td]DET[/td][td]35.4[/td][td]432[/td][td]59.1[/td][td]7.3 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Stephen Curry[/td][td]GSW[/td][td]34.0[/td][td]366[/td][td]50.7[/td][td]7.2 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Victor Oladipo[/td][td]ORL[/td][td]27.6[/td][td]258[/td][td]35.9[/td][td]7.2 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Eric Bledsoe[/td][td]PHO[/td][td]34.9[/td][td]390[/td][td]56.3[/td][td]6.9 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Isaiah Thomas[/td][td]SAC[/td][td]28.6[/td][td]312[/td][td]46.3[/td][td]6.7 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]James Harden[/td][td]HOU[/td][td]39.5[/td][td]270[/td][td]41.4[/td][td]6.5 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Damian Lillard[/td][td]POR[/td][td]36.9[/td][td]420[/td][td]64.5[/td][td]6.5 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Ty Lawson[/td][td]DEN[/td][td]36.4[/td][td]384[/td][td]59.6[/td][td]6.4 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Goran Dragic[/td][td]PHO[/td][td]33.2[/td][td]336[/td][td]52.6[/td][td]6.4 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Kyrie Irving[/td][td]CLE[/td][td]34.6[/td][td]360[/td][td]56.4[/td][td]6.4 seconds[/td][/tr][/table]
As we can see here, Westbrook possesses the ball for 7.8 seconds between passes, which is the highest rate in the league by a healthy margin. That's not an indictment on only him. Thunder coach Scott Brooks doesn't escape blame, either, as his offensive system doesn't exactly predicate itself on ball movement. But it's worth noting that Westbrook's backup, Reggie Jackson, possesses the ball for 5.8 seconds on average between passes (although to be fair, more than a quarter of Jackson's minutes have come alongside Westbrook, where he's not bringing up the ball).
This certainly won't help Westbrook's reputation next to Kevin Durant, perhaps the best scoring weapon in the game. At this pace, Westbrook will have one of the least efficient high usage seasons ever, as he's using 33 percent of the Thunder's possessions on the floor while registering a pathetic 47.2 percent true shooting percentage (Durant is currently at 61.3 percent). Westbrook may want to defer to Durant more as the point guard struggles to return from his knee injury.
Elsewhere on the list, you may be surprised to find Curry, who's averaging a career-high 8.8 assists this season. But Curry makes his passes count; 18 percent of his passes turn into assists, which is the highest rate in the league, even above Chris Paul. Yes, it helps to have Klay Thompson, Andre Iguodala and David Lee around. Also, it's hard to fault Curry for "hogging" the ball when he's one of the most efficient point guards in the game; Westbrook doesn't have that excuse.
On the other end of the spectrum, Jose Calderon holds the ball for just 4 seconds between passes, the lowest rate among point guards. Calderon wastes no time to get the ball moving to his teammates.
Who's the most selfless player in the league by this metric? Shane Battier, who was once dubbed by The New York Times as "The No Stats All-Star." Here's a Battier stat for you: the Heat veteran wing averages one pass per second of possession this season. Heat coach Erik Spoelstra emphasizes constant ball movement in his "pace-and-space" offense, and Battier represents the ideal. If Battier dribbles, something's gone horribly wrong.
All of the players on the above list are ball handlers, which makes sense if you're looking for a pure ball hog. But that's not typically what we imagine ball hogs to be. If you've ever played pickup ball, you know the Black Hole guy. He's the one who never gives the ball back. As soon as you pass him the ball, better run back on defense -- the shot's going up.
We didn't incorporate shots in that last metric, but how can we talk about ball hogging without shots? Let's correct that. Here's a list of players who have the lowest rates of passes per shot attempt, or what I like to call the Black Hole Rate. The passing and shooting numbers below are listed on a per-game basis.
[h4]TOP 10 BLACK HOLES IN THE NBA[/h4]
Lowest rate of passes per shot attempt (minimum 250 minutes and 10 shots per game; stats through Tuesday's games)
[table][tr][th=""]Player[/th][th=""]Team[/th][th=""]Passes[/th][th=""]Shots[/th][th=""]Black Hole Rate[/th][/tr][tr][td]Klay Thompson[/td][td]GSW[/td][td]19.9[/td][td]15.3[/td][td]1.30[/td][/tr][tr][td]Eric Gordon[/td][td]NO[/td][td]20.2[/td][td]12.9[/td][td]1.56[/td][/tr][tr][td]Nick Young[/td][td]LAL[/td][td]16.9[/td][td]10.7[/td][td]1.58[/td][/tr][tr][td]Marcus Thornton[/td][td]SAC[/td][td]17.2[/td][td]10.6[/td][td]1.63[/td][/tr][tr][td]Rudy Gay[/td][td]TOR[/td][td]33.5[/td][td]20.3[/td][td]1.65[/td][/tr][tr][td]DeMar DeRozan[/td][td]TOR[/td][td]33.2[/td][td]19.3[/td][td]1.72[/td][/tr][tr][td]J.J. Redick[/td][td]LAC[/td][td]21.2[/td][td]12.1[/td][td]1.76[/td][/tr][tr][td]Kevin Martin[/td][td]MIN[/td][td]30.9[/td][td]17.5[/td][td]1.77[/td][/tr][tr][td]Carmelo Anthony[/td][td]NYK[/td][td]39.8[/td][td]22.2[/td][td]1.79[/td][/tr][tr][td]Dion Waiters[/td][td]CLE[/td][td]23.1[/td][td]12.4[/td][td]1.86[/td][/tr][/table]
Well, if you can shoot it like Thompson, maybe you can get away with not sharing the ball. But the Golden State shooting guard fires up nearly as many shots as passes when he's out there, which is pretty remarkable. The Warriors probably don't care, as long as he continues shooting 50 percent from the floor and 46.8 percent from downtown.
We can't say the same for Gordon, Thornton or Gay, who have collectively shot 38.3 percent from the floor this season. These are the Black Hole guys you don't want to see on your team. For perspective, Gay fires up five more shots per game than James, but dishes out 14 fewer passes. Also, Gay is shooting 37.5 percent from the floor. In related news, Gay has banned his team from looking at the stat sheets in the locker room.
Another interesting player on this list is Redick, who has transformed his game since his Orlando days. Before he was traded to the Milwaukee Bucks last season, Redick averaged 4.4 assists per game as a primary playmaker for the talent-deprived Magic. Now playing for the Clippers, he has left the playmaking duties up to Paul, which is probably the smart move. As a result, Redick's dishing numbers have taken a dive.
Like Redick and Thompson, Martin is out there to shoot, and he does it well. The rest of the list features the usual suspects in Anthony, Waiters and DeRozan. Feel free to pass it to them, because their respective franchises have hinged their playoff hopes on their success. Just don't expect the ball back.
Originally Published: November 29, 2013
By Tom Haberstroh | ESPN Insider
Subscribeend mod-article-title begin story body
photo wide photo
Andrew Francis Wallace/Getty ImagesDon't expect to see the ball back if you pass it to Toronto's Rudy Gay or New York's Carmelo Anthony.end wide photo
It may be Black Friday for most folks, but here in the land of Per Diem, today is Black Hole Friday.
Yes, Black Hole Friday.
On Thanksgiving Day, I identified the players who should be giving thanks for their buckets and to whom they owe their gratitude. But we're going to look at the flip side on Black Hole Friday: where basketballs go but never come back. The ball hogs. The gunners.
We have a brand-spanking-new trove of numbers from SportVU that will help us expose those who monopolize the basketball and keep it from their teammates. No longer must we be shackled by the confines of the box score. Thanks to 3-D cameras in every arena, we can see exactly how many passes a player makes, how many seconds he possesses the ball, and how often he dribbles.
In other words, we can identify the biggest ball hogs in the game. For these purposes, we're going to go by the purest sense of the term: the player who hogs the ball and rarely passes. To identify those, we'll see how many seconds each player possesses the ball on average between passes. In the chart below, I've listed the player's average time of possession in seconds (TOP) and his average passes per game, which I'll use to arrive at his average hog rate, which is expressed in seconds.
Those names?
[h4]TOP 10 BALL HOGS IN THE NBA[/h4]
Longest time of possession between passes (minimum 250 minutes; stats through Tuesday)
[table][tr][th=""]Player[/th][th=""]Team[/th][th=""]MPG[/th][th=""]TOP[/th][th=""]Passes[/th][th=""]Hog Rate[/th][/tr][tr][td]Russell Westbrook[/td][td]OKC[/td][td]33.5[/td][td]390[/td][td]50.2[/td][td]7.8 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Brandon Jennings[/td][td]DET[/td][td]35.4[/td][td]432[/td][td]59.1[/td][td]7.3 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Stephen Curry[/td][td]GSW[/td][td]34.0[/td][td]366[/td][td]50.7[/td][td]7.2 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Victor Oladipo[/td][td]ORL[/td][td]27.6[/td][td]258[/td][td]35.9[/td][td]7.2 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Eric Bledsoe[/td][td]PHO[/td][td]34.9[/td][td]390[/td][td]56.3[/td][td]6.9 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Isaiah Thomas[/td][td]SAC[/td][td]28.6[/td][td]312[/td][td]46.3[/td][td]6.7 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]James Harden[/td][td]HOU[/td][td]39.5[/td][td]270[/td][td]41.4[/td][td]6.5 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Damian Lillard[/td][td]POR[/td][td]36.9[/td][td]420[/td][td]64.5[/td][td]6.5 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Ty Lawson[/td][td]DEN[/td][td]36.4[/td][td]384[/td][td]59.6[/td][td]6.4 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Goran Dragic[/td][td]PHO[/td][td]33.2[/td][td]336[/td][td]52.6[/td][td]6.4 seconds[/td][/tr][tr][td]Kyrie Irving[/td][td]CLE[/td][td]34.6[/td][td]360[/td][td]56.4[/td][td]6.4 seconds[/td][/tr][/table]
As we can see here, Westbrook possesses the ball for 7.8 seconds between passes, which is the highest rate in the league by a healthy margin. That's not an indictment on only him. Thunder coach Scott Brooks doesn't escape blame, either, as his offensive system doesn't exactly predicate itself on ball movement. But it's worth noting that Westbrook's backup, Reggie Jackson, possesses the ball for 5.8 seconds on average between passes (although to be fair, more than a quarter of Jackson's minutes have come alongside Westbrook, where he's not bringing up the ball).
This certainly won't help Westbrook's reputation next to Kevin Durant, perhaps the best scoring weapon in the game. At this pace, Westbrook will have one of the least efficient high usage seasons ever, as he's using 33 percent of the Thunder's possessions on the floor while registering a pathetic 47.2 percent true shooting percentage (Durant is currently at 61.3 percent). Westbrook may want to defer to Durant more as the point guard struggles to return from his knee injury.
Elsewhere on the list, you may be surprised to find Curry, who's averaging a career-high 8.8 assists this season. But Curry makes his passes count; 18 percent of his passes turn into assists, which is the highest rate in the league, even above Chris Paul. Yes, it helps to have Klay Thompson, Andre Iguodala and David Lee around. Also, it's hard to fault Curry for "hogging" the ball when he's one of the most efficient point guards in the game; Westbrook doesn't have that excuse.
On the other end of the spectrum, Jose Calderon holds the ball for just 4 seconds between passes, the lowest rate among point guards. Calderon wastes no time to get the ball moving to his teammates.
Who's the most selfless player in the league by this metric? Shane Battier, who was once dubbed by The New York Times as "The No Stats All-Star." Here's a Battier stat for you: the Heat veteran wing averages one pass per second of possession this season. Heat coach Erik Spoelstra emphasizes constant ball movement in his "pace-and-space" offense, and Battier represents the ideal. If Battier dribbles, something's gone horribly wrong.
All of the players on the above list are ball handlers, which makes sense if you're looking for a pure ball hog. But that's not typically what we imagine ball hogs to be. If you've ever played pickup ball, you know the Black Hole guy. He's the one who never gives the ball back. As soon as you pass him the ball, better run back on defense -- the shot's going up.
We didn't incorporate shots in that last metric, but how can we talk about ball hogging without shots? Let's correct that. Here's a list of players who have the lowest rates of passes per shot attempt, or what I like to call the Black Hole Rate. The passing and shooting numbers below are listed on a per-game basis.
[h4]TOP 10 BLACK HOLES IN THE NBA[/h4]
Lowest rate of passes per shot attempt (minimum 250 minutes and 10 shots per game; stats through Tuesday's games)
[table][tr][th=""]Player[/th][th=""]Team[/th][th=""]Passes[/th][th=""]Shots[/th][th=""]Black Hole Rate[/th][/tr][tr][td]Klay Thompson[/td][td]GSW[/td][td]19.9[/td][td]15.3[/td][td]1.30[/td][/tr][tr][td]Eric Gordon[/td][td]NO[/td][td]20.2[/td][td]12.9[/td][td]1.56[/td][/tr][tr][td]Nick Young[/td][td]LAL[/td][td]16.9[/td][td]10.7[/td][td]1.58[/td][/tr][tr][td]Marcus Thornton[/td][td]SAC[/td][td]17.2[/td][td]10.6[/td][td]1.63[/td][/tr][tr][td]Rudy Gay[/td][td]TOR[/td][td]33.5[/td][td]20.3[/td][td]1.65[/td][/tr][tr][td]DeMar DeRozan[/td][td]TOR[/td][td]33.2[/td][td]19.3[/td][td]1.72[/td][/tr][tr][td]J.J. Redick[/td][td]LAC[/td][td]21.2[/td][td]12.1[/td][td]1.76[/td][/tr][tr][td]Kevin Martin[/td][td]MIN[/td][td]30.9[/td][td]17.5[/td][td]1.77[/td][/tr][tr][td]Carmelo Anthony[/td][td]NYK[/td][td]39.8[/td][td]22.2[/td][td]1.79[/td][/tr][tr][td]Dion Waiters[/td][td]CLE[/td][td]23.1[/td][td]12.4[/td][td]1.86[/td][/tr][/table]
Well, if you can shoot it like Thompson, maybe you can get away with not sharing the ball. But the Golden State shooting guard fires up nearly as many shots as passes when he's out there, which is pretty remarkable. The Warriors probably don't care, as long as he continues shooting 50 percent from the floor and 46.8 percent from downtown.
We can't say the same for Gordon, Thornton or Gay, who have collectively shot 38.3 percent from the floor this season. These are the Black Hole guys you don't want to see on your team. For perspective, Gay fires up five more shots per game than James, but dishes out 14 fewer passes. Also, Gay is shooting 37.5 percent from the floor. In related news, Gay has banned his team from looking at the stat sheets in the locker room.
Another interesting player on this list is Redick, who has transformed his game since his Orlando days. Before he was traded to the Milwaukee Bucks last season, Redick averaged 4.4 assists per game as a primary playmaker for the talent-deprived Magic. Now playing for the Clippers, he has left the playmaking duties up to Paul, which is probably the smart move. As a result, Redick's dishing numbers have taken a dive.
Like Redick and Thompson, Martin is out there to shoot, and he does it well. The rest of the list features the usual suspects in Anthony, Waiters and DeRozan. Feel free to pass it to them, because their respective franchises have hinged their playoff hopes on their success. Just don't expect the ball back.
- 80,694
- 55,639
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2012
What the heck
This guy just Tweeted this on ESPN's website
tomhaberstroh Tom Haberstroh
Related: Klay Thompson was biggest black hole in NBA last season. http://t.co/mpdlWgfhLy[in] https://t.co/N7xu
Last edited:
- 61,428
- 132,984
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2003
meh Klay is primarily a catch and shoot guy that isolated like 8% of all his possessions.
I'm not sure how he's a black hole when's he's spotting up or coming off of screens the majority of the time.
I'm not sure how he's a black hole when's he's spotting up or coming off of screens the majority of the time.
Last edited:
- 30,668
- 7,905
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2013
Isaiah Thomas
- Status
